Feudal Quest

Thank you DarkLight for your awesome analysis. I am impressed.

 

Kind of embarassing that it is always Daklight and/or Arkeus that save the day with good insights... Although many of those "just" mean having memorized all the infos we got... and I surely am not going to reread everything for every new set of orders or keep all intrígues in mind.
Intrigues only give me headaches, anyway.
Although we could perhaps collect everything (including random GM infos in the middle of the thread like that cousin marriage bit) in a googledoc for easier consumption.

 

While i am pleased and adequately flattered by the comparison, i do tend to rush my posts a bit too much which can lead to crucial mistakes. I have still a long way to go before i can successfully brainwash posters and GM alike the way certain Dark and Handsome mysterious strangers do.

If we can't convince ShaperV to add this in the lore post/whatever, i may be up to making such a googledocs.

 

If someone wants to compile the information I'll be happy to add links to the index and/or Lore post as appropriate.

 

No need to force all the work on the GM, having such a compilation by users means quicker updates due to less work involved.

 

I will let you in on a little secret. We all know each other from other games and sometimes we talk about this stuff when we're talking about other things and check each other's errors. Though Darklight's latest analysis was all him.

 

I have begun doing one Here, it can be edited by anyone. Will probably take a bit to be up to date, though.

EDIT:

Currently just putting all the Q&A ShaperV answered to. We'd have to decide how to organize it (by topic?) later.

 

Arkeus awesome job.

 

I'll help on Sunday, won't have time before that...

 

The Final Contender Pt II

You are willing to reveal:
[X] Your sorcery.
[X] Katiana's wizardry, and the fact you plan to continue employing her.
[X] Your plans to improve Corzu's conditions and economy.

and possibly:
[X] Your plans to continue going on adventures, at least within the kingdom.

You decide to:
[X] See if Katiana can discern the purpose and nature of the magic on them without making it obvious that she's looking.

while attempting to find out:
[X] What does she consider our better qualities?
[X] What are her feelings on magic, in general or as she sees it used by us and our retainers?
[X] What would she look forward to after marriage?
[X] What are her primary interests?


Unfortunately Katiana doesn't have divination as a specialty, so she can't tell much about Zarana's magic without getting her into a laboratory and casting obvious spells on her. Once again Dita's faerie sight prove to be almost ridiculously powerful compared to other methods. Unfortunately she lacks the experience to identify the exact type of magic in play here, so the only thing she can be reasonably sure of is that it's internal (i.e. it affects Zarana and her maids rather than their surroundings).

Zarana is an excellent conversationalist, and spending time with her is quite enjoyable even if it does sometimes feel like some sort of verbal dueling match. Interestingly enough, there are several occasions when she manages to catch you in a verbal trap that makes it difficult to avoid giving away some of your secrets about being rude, and then backs down and gives you an easy out. You think she's trying to demonstrate how good she is while still being friendly about it.

Your first several conversations will be careful fencing matches, in which each of you offers up little tidbits of information about yourself while trying to learn more about your opponent. But the initial results are rather encouraging:

[X] Your plans to improve Corzu's conditions and economy.

This is an easy topic of conversation, so it comes up fairly early. Zarana quite approves of your plans to improve Corzu, though she points out that such efforts tend to take years to pay off. But your father has quite a reputation as administrator, having turned Kolarovo from a fairly average barony to an amazingly wealthy one with two decades of careful of management. Zarana takes this discussion to imply that you have similar interests, and you spend some time discussing the pros and cons of various plans to improve the fief. She proves well-versed in such topics, and offers several useful suggestions about how to organize the harvest collection and encourage the growth of the river trade.

However, Corzu is obviously too small to provide much of a power base in the long run. She inquires a bit about whether you have plans for expansion, which is a good opportunity for you to discreetly let her know that she's in competition with Ezti (and Ezti's barony). Her reaction to that isn't exactly what you'd expect:

"Ezti is a treasure isn't she? Such bold innocence! We simply have to introduce her to Boris, don't you think? They'd be perfect for each other."

You smile. "Yes, they'd probably get along. Although I have to say, I'm a little surprised you're not angling for the heir yourself."

"Oh, I prefer to work with the power behind the throne. He's a bit direct from my taste, and in any event some things are best kept at a distance from public scrutiny. Wouldn't you agree?"

Her tone is light and a bit teasing, but it's an interesting hint.

[X] Your sorcery.
[X] Katiana's wizardry, and the fact you plan to continue employing her.
[X] What are her feelings on magic, in general or as she sees it used by us and our retainers?

It will be a while before this comes up, since it's a delicate topic. Zarana is fascinated to meet an authentic wizard, but it's your own admission to having a bit of sorcery that really gets her to open up. After seeing you levitated a spoon, she slyly admits to having a bit of magic of her own. But it isn't what you expected.

"Alchemy," she reveals with a proud little grin.

"Alchemy?" You ask. "So, you can brew potions that do magical things? Turn men into beasts, or heal wounds?"

"Ah, if only it were so easy. My art can accomplish amazing things, but it normally requires many carefully measured doses over an extended period of time. Potions with an instant effect can sometimes be useful, but they demand a high price."

"How so?" You ask, intrigued.

"Well, for example, there's a formula that can instantly give a warrior amazing strength for a few minutes. But it also tends to make the user too enraged to think clearly, and when it wears off he'll usually pass out for several hours."

"That would be a pretty situational thing," you agree. "So what about these long-term treatments?"

"Anything that is already there can be enhanced," Zarana tells you. "My maids weren't quite so charming when I recruited them, for example. It's most effective when applied during childhood, as part of a special training program. But given a year or so I could do a little something for an adult."

You consider that for a moment. "What's the catch?"

She sighs. "Preparing the doses takes a tremendous amount of very delicate work, and the ingredients are expensive. It isn't practical to use it on more than a handful of hand-picked agents."

She leans back in her seat with a contemplative look. "Although, I do wonder if Katiana might be the key to changing that. A powerful wizardess might well know the answers to some of the questions that have stymied me."

Well, this is intriguing. Further discussion makes it clear that, while Zarana is keenly aware of the risks of church disapproval or exposure to taint, she sees these is purely practical issues rather than moral ones. She has no qualms at all about the two of you using magic to achieve your goals, as long as you're careful to avoid the pitfalls that lead so many careless practitioners into corruption and madness.

[X] Your plans to continue going on adventures, at least within the kingdom.
[X] What does she consider our better qualities?

This plan would be one of them.

Pragmatically, Zarana wants a husband with rich lands and good prospects for advancement. Normally she'd be looking to marry a baron's heir, but your position within the Petran family goes a long way towards making up for Corzu's tiny size and impoverished state. In the long run she wants more than that, but in the long run you'll probably have it one way or another.

But emotionally, Zarana is obviously quite attracted to the idea of marrying a powerful man who spends part of his time fighting evil. While she isn't a front-line combatant herself, she seems quite interested in the idea of running the support and information gathering side of such an operation. During this discussion she tacitly admits that she's already begun developing her own network of informants across the kingdom, and implies that she might have access to a professional spy or two.

She also gives you a new adventure lead. Apparently there's a somewhat mysterious secret society that has begun operating in Borjeria recently, and since their wares include drugs and assassinations she rather suspects that there's something evil behind them.

Aside from this, Zarana is quite pleased with the fact that you obviously aren't going to be afraid of her magic. That's something she's been quite concerned about, and she hints that it's one of the reasons her family is considering an alliance with the Petrans instead of your rivals the Dardais. Apparently you have a reputation for being "soft" on magic, which is pretty funny considering what you've learned about your grandfather's dealings.

[X] What are her primary interests?

Zarana can talk about poetry, music, gardening and gossip forever, which makes it easy for her to pass as a thoroughly conventional noblewoman. But her real interests are alchemy, the game of thrones, and…

Wait, did she actually say "personal pleasures"?

She favors you with a somewhat naughty grin. "You don't strike me as the sort of man to be intimidated by a woman who can admit to such interests."

"You caught me a bit off guard," you admit. "You've been so proper all evening."

"A public façade of propriety is of vital importance," she observes seriously. "But I pity these poor girls who have become their façade. It's important to enjoy life, don't you agree?"

"Who could argue with that? But now I'm wondering what exactly you were referring to."

"A proper lady would never discuss such scandalous things," she teases.

You raise an eyebrow. "Oh, so your interests are scandalous, are they?"

"Definitely unsuitable for polite conversation," she assures you with mock seriousness. "I couldn't possibly say more. Why, we've hardly met."

You never do managed to pin her down on that one. You're still not sure if she's serious, or just trying to catch your interest.

[X] What would she look forward to after marriage?

The honeymoon?

More seriously, Zarana gives every indication that she believes in the traditional principle that a husband should lead and a wife should follow. However, she sees this as a partnership rather than a master-servant relationship (which practically makes her a radical feminist by Borjerian standards). She expects a fair degree of freedom to manage her own schemes in support of whatever goals you've jointly adopted, and she feels you out pretty thoroughly on the topic of your willingness to take advice from a woman. A lot of Borjeria nobles have trouble with that one, so she's going to be pretty happy with you there.

You get a definite feeling that Zarana expects to devote a lot of time and energy to scheming and intrigue in an attempt to improve your positions. She also wants to raise a family, naturally, and hints that she wants a lot of children. She jokes that two sons and two daughters is a bare minimum, so you have an 'heir and a spare' for both your fiefs and her personal arts.

At this point you would guess that Zarana's stats are:

Body 0, Mind 3, Soul 2, Charm 4
Administration 1, Diplomacy 2, Intrigue 3, Leadership 1
Alchemy 2 (unknown specialties)

…although of course there's still a lot that you don't know. In particular, you suspect that she may be downplaying her physical abilities simply because you'd think Body would be the easiest stat to raise with something like alchemy.

You're pretty sure that Zarana's maids are chatting up your servants, men at arms and retainers while you're entertaining her. Unfortunately that's to be expected, and there's no easy way to know what they're finding out. Zarana always has at least one of them with her to act as a chaperone, but Dita and Katiana will both remark on how sociable they are. Dita has a bit of a blush when she does – apparently she thinks they're rather cute.

Do you want to make any changes to your approach at this point? In particular, are there further questions you want to try to get answers to, and is there any other information you want to reveal to her?

 

Ok, Zarana is more or less how i expected her to be, though actually more subtle and interesting, which is nice. I'll try to give myself more time to think a bit before posting questions, and also finish that Q&A googledoc.

EDIT: OK, Q&A copied. Now i need input on how to organize it. Don't forget that you can Edit it at will. It's HERE.

Now, as for Zarana, i do think she just jumped to the top of the list- not surprising, considering she is the one who is supposed to be the best talker

Re-Edit:
About the stats, beyond Body it's also possible that we are wrong on Mind or Soul too: Mind is probably the hardest of the attribute to gauge, and it's even harder if someone is as smart or slightly smarter than you are. Bias do not help, either. As for Soul, she is apparently quite the feminist, which is probably not something possible without quite the willpower in this kingdom.

 

Honestly? She just shot up to the top of the list imo. If she's ok with Kat, then she's damned near perfect.

Of course that just means it feels like a trap.

 

Radical feminist? Well, if you drop that monicker I got no problem with that... Her opinions in that regard are none at all.

But did I get the hints right that she'd be okay with a harem (if only it means she gets more time for scheming)?

I do have a problem with the fact she seems to lead onto a mostly intrigue (aka not fun) path for the game, though.

 

Pretty heavy hints there, yes.

Given that she seems to want us to be a adventurer, i wouldn't have fears there.

 

Any chance this counts as diplomacy training Were at 1+3/4, after all?

Yeah, top of the list it is. She's also a good political/military match, after all.

Not fears, if it becomes court intrigue deluxe I just drop out.
Well, she seems to be able to keep the number of messes we have to clean up due top intrigue to a minimum.

Edit: So yeah... Boris+Ezti and Dominic+Zarana+Kat+the mistresses+whoever else is allowed in (obviously has to be discussed under 6 eyes, maybe 10 if the mistresses are also asked after the marriage alliance is finished) sounds like a good plan.
But we have to get the womens' input, I'm not going to support Dominic having to deal with a permanent bitching war (or whatever you translate Zickenkrieg/-terror as) in his harem because the combination he picked doesn't work...

 

Hmm, the biggest thing I'd like to know is how genuine she's being, which since we're outmatched vs. her it's pretty difficult to figure out, save by trying to get some coached answers out of her cronies.

...Actually there is one thing I did just think of that we could try, when we scanned Dita she could tell we did so, but we didn't notice the dark magic clinging to us when we visited Atalya, so there's clearly a spectrum even amongst magic users in regards to their sensitivity. Could be worth trying to get intermittent reads on her to establish sincerity. Probably should ask Kat if she can tell us roughly how common she thinks detecting the scan would be before going ahead with that though.

Other than that it really depends on how people are feeling about her, I'm pretty ambivalent on her so far. But if people are feeling confident about the match then one thing we could do to test the waters, is find reasons to have our mistresses (who she'll have found out about by now) be the ones doing the serving and such, to see how she reacts to them.

 

Thinking about it a tiny bit (i probably should think about it some more...), it seems to me that the catch is that she is ambitious, and she won't accept us not being equally ambitious.

So she wants us to be a powerful adventurer, but she also wants to become a powerful alchemist herself, and she is pretty damn certain that she won't be content on being a lady of a tiny fief: she wants a barony at the very least in the long term.

While Etzi more or less wants "help me keep my barony", Dita can't even think of herself having a future, and Kat is more or less "I want a magically poweful husband that respect me", Zarana is our first marriage prospect who has ambitions for the marriage of a political nature, and her and her husband's future.

...I am totally ok with such a catch.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if she handed us little notes telling which potions she'd recommend for them.

 

Basically she could be faking a few things to make herself seem ideal, but the key reason is why. And I can't see the angle right off. She could be genuine, but this doesn't seem likely with an intrigue base. So I'm suspicious.

 

I was quite intrigued when I heard of Zarana and absolutely expected this turn of event. I am ok with that and could be agreeable to a marriage with her. Like everyone said, we really should try to see what are the downsides of this union, because it seems way too much too good to be true.

Although I have still quite the fondness for Ezti and longing for the sort of story we could write with her.

 

Clearly we liked what we saw and heard, and our character don't appear to be one to hide it very well, at least to her build.

So, as a rule of tumb, maybe, after talking with Katiana on the reason, realward her and allow her to talk shopp wih our wizzard for a time.

Yes it could backfire, but it would allow us to not only get a better read on the situation (how much of what was seen survive contact with Katiana (our second wife to be), but also to show this prospective wife to be. That yes we do value the opinions of our companions.

On the talks, maybe hint that you may have a way to secure better funds than the fief can produce. (Only hint, after all the how is a secret), telling her that you did agree to receive some unusual serfs from egipt.

Also, to show our good faith to her, maybe tell her, a crearly redact acount of the cleasening of Corzu, hiting. that we will start to do something similar in other fiefs of our family, and maybe of our allies.
(I propose this in the notion that we didn't realy go to too much deep in the teling of our future adventures)

 

I am unsure how to reconcile the fact that Zarana as much as told us she had access to spies with this:

Maybe i guess there is a significant difference between having a spymistress and a female spy (possibly the spies Zarana has access to are all male), maybe the Barzal family is unique, or maybe Zarana herself was able to create her own branch of female spies thanks to her knowledge of the trade from the family and her alchemy. Still, not sure what to think of it.

Or i possibly am misreading that quote.

@ShaperV:
1°)The previous quote is still true right?
2) Alchemy is a sorcery unique trait that also run on Soul?

Edit:
also, it occurs to me we haven't asked our staff to do anything since forever- and we still must ask our peasants to do work for all their man-hours.

 

Been off a bit, but this update...

Ya, ambition is written all over her. To be honest though, I feel that she's exactly what we need at this point of the 'game'.

Why? We're not short on magical power (both from us and Kat), even if she brings another set of magical tree into the family (which is good as it allow us to continue building the magical troubleshooter rep), but having a spy 'mistress' would allow us to manipulate things from both the front and back of the scenes, so to speak.

Don't forget that we are not, at the moment, heir for our throne. We need to make some kind of impact that's big enough that we can sway the opinions of our family so that they can do nothing but choose us instead. Someone who is strong in intrigue as well as already having some pre-existing spies will help a lot for that.

Not to mention that marrying her will not give us land, but it will make us nominal allies with her family, which will help when the old king dies.

I vote to spend more time with her as she just raised to the top of our list for marriage.

 

Please do not mention the game of thrones in my face, I tend to have...flashbacks of that bloody murderhobo series.

 

Adyen unless the fortunes of war knock off Boris before he has a legitamite heir we arent in line for the Dukedom.

In reality if Boris marries Ezti and our father eventually becomes Duke us acquiring our fathers barony is in the cards.

On the flip side & serioua challenge to pull off would be to turn Corzu into a new Dutchy by gaining the fealty of surrounding barons and by raw power (military, economic, magic etc)

Which is why next year we will be in position to absorb large number of refugees and every year after that

@ShaperV

How long would it take Kat to survey Corzu and map its resources (salt, clay, coal, tin, copper etc), aquafers, and places with fertile lands.

What high value crops can we grow? Looking at grapes for wine.

 

This is rather hard, not the least because we are seemingly doing well, so changing tract now seems dangerous. Zarana does look like the kind who prefer ambitious people, but her love for intrigue also mean she probably doesn't like people being coarse or overly aggressive about it, and so far we are apparently managing to walk the fine line of the very ambitious that is nonetheless not egregious.

She has brought up the subject of Etzi as a 'treasure', though, so maybe we could bring the subject toward the different neighbours we have already met or heard about: the young militaristic Baron Rogatica, the distracted Chesna and secretive Nikolai, the young devout heir Etzi, and the extremely religious Timis. Keep the conversation light about them: just our reaction on their temperaments, what we believe their goals to be, what we hear about them. Getting her opinion on our neighbour could be very important to gauge what kind of future actions she would deem acceptable.

Likewise, we could bring the subject toward the hint she gave us about the 'softeness' of the Petran toward magic and why the Balzar may appreciate it. It's quite possible that this refers to letting a scion marrying a Chosen of Inovia, but it could refer to other happen-stances, maybe even to our aunt Gravilla, other long dead family members or secrets we didn't know. So let's not act surprised. The goal here, if possible, would be to learn Zarana's own thoughts on Inovia. However, if the conversation goes somewhere else, we should not tip our hand and bring it back there.

All of those are possibilities, but they may have their own pitfalls, especially the last one about trying to see Zarana's opinion on the Chosen/Dita.

I also strongly believe we cannot yet tell her we have Flesh Sorcery: while it might mesh superbly well with Alchemy, it might also be possible that they could negate each other's effects; As long as she isn't officially an ally, such knowledge could make her a direct enemies of us.

 

[X] Discuss Egypts new crusade and the oppurtunities it brings
-> Hold the fact that you are taking the more exotic refguees private.

Apart from being a major developement it gives both parties a fairly neutral point of discussion

[X] What one project to improve Corzu Keep {after all the repairs} would she suggest?

Aka if we commit what would make our backwoods keep a better home to live in

 

Okay, question to the side, do I read the geopolitical situation right here?

[img width=600 height=463]http://i.imgur.com/Tr1pvA0.jpg[/img]

Borders are really hard to identify on this map, at least for me...

 

Not completely:
-your Barzal is taking of the Barony of Rupea somehow
- You are having the same colors for Corzu and Korovalo (maybe to point out they both belong to our side of the family), but nothing really indicates that Chesna is Family, that our grandad has the Duchy of Ikula, or that our older sister is married to the Baron of Supola (a bit to the left of rogatica).
- You are not including the Dardais as our big enemy, nor that they have the Barony of Gorsa and Guran.

Apart from that, yeah.

EDIT: You also seem to be using the Thumbnail version of the map, not the original one. Using the original one will help (in the image website, click on zoom in the bottom right of the image twice).

 

The forum shrunk the picture, which is okay with me. You can enlarge it by clicking on it.

Corzu and Korovalo are the same color due to a) family connections and b) being far enough from each other that I can reuse the color (and red is just enemy, so I guess I should Timis a well.
The rest... yeah, missed it.

Edit: Updated.
[img width=600 height=463]http://i.imgur.com/ESZiGBK.jpg[/img]