I will become God-Harem King of the World! [Highschool DxD/Exalted] (CLOSED)

I think it should be Perception + Occult. There isn't really any physical effort exerted in launching the thing, it's a sphere of magical energy that you push in "that direction." Aiming it should be a matter of shaping it properly and projecting it properly; Occult because it's magical energy of course, and then perception to aim it and acquire the exact vector you want.

 

[X] Find out the cause.

You can think that, but the closest charm in the game to that kind of energy bolt attack doesn't use that pool.

 

And it doesn't make a lick of sense. Seriously, what the hell does archery and athletics have to do with throwing fireballs? Sorcery spells use Occult plus one of the mental attributes; a cursory glance at the core rulebook gives me Shards of Obsidian Butterflies being Occult + Perception, and I'm reasonably sure Thunder Wolf's Howl is powered by Occult + Intelligence.

 

Personally I think dexretity+athletics suits issei, also it should be directly tied to overdrive mote pool.

 

See, there's your first mistake. You're comparing it to sorcery. You know, the thing with a casting time of 'sit there and chant for a minute while hoping no one stabs you' verses the 'I instantly throw a fireball' power of charms. Which don't run off perception.

All attacks/weapons, and this is effectively a charm that lets you make a special kind of attack/weapon (IE, energy bolts), function of a dicepool of Dexterity+Relevant Ability+Weapon Bonuses.

I'm not really sure why Athletic is a relevant ability for Elemental Bolt Attack, but questioning the use of dexterity is just stupid because their isn't a single normal attack in the game that I am aware of that doesn't use it. (Archery, on the other hand, makes it easily because, well, that's what you use for ranged weapons, from bows to ship mounted siege scale deathrays.)

But comparing any charm or charm equivalent to sorcery actions is silly because the two are different systems. And beyond that, looking at spells that have an area of effect of '30 yards wide, 100 yards long, 10 yards high, starting at the caster' for Death of Obsidian Butterflies (I assume you mean this one, as there is no 'shards of obsidian butterflies'), and 'An area 20 yards across, within 100 yards of the sorcerer' for Thunder Wolf's Howl and claiming that they should work the same way a single targetish energy bolt is even more silly.

 

It's not what you use for thrown weapons though, which are also ranged. Archery doesn't measure your ability to use ranged weapons, it measures your ability to use a specific set of weapons clustered together into a single ability. Dragon Shot is not a weapon, it is a spell, therefore it is utterly nonsensical that its accuracy would be measured based on a person's skill with archery.

 

..I have no idea where you are getting your info because its wrong.

Page 145, Core Book.
"Attack Roll: The attacker’s player rolls (Dexterity + the Ability that governs the method of attack used—Archery, Martial Arts, Melee or Thrown) at diffi culty 1, subject to the usual order of modifi ers (see table on p. 124)."

In other words, Yes, you do use Dexterity for throwing weapons.

Archery is the skill used for weapons that use a projectile to attack, and the charm uses a projectile to attack. That fits. Personally I'm of the opinion that you should be able to use Archery or Thrown, but I didn't write Elemental Bolt Attack.

Meanwhile, you're still calling it a spell when it isn't. Spells are Sorcery, which run off different systems then normal attacks. Bolt abilities such as typical shonen energy blasts are the equivalent of Charms, which use the normal Stat+ability spread for their functions. And the normal stat+ability combo for ranged attacks is Dexterity+(Thrown/Archery). So one of those two was going to be chosen, and for whatever reason Archery was the one that got the finger.

For informative purposes, the Occult skill doesn't actually have anything directly to do with someone's skill at using magic (Though Occult charms tend in the metamagic direction), but is instead 'knowledge of and familiarity with all forms of magic'. In other words, it's the academic skill for being able to explain how things work, not the skill that says how good you are at throwing giant fireballs at people.

This directly matters for Sorcery because in exalted Sorcery is the equivalent of booting up the root command counsel of the universe and manually coding in what you want to happen. When you are doing that, theoretical knowledge of how things work matters a lot.

For the equivalent of double clicking the execute button on the shiny GUI that charms are, it doesn't matter a bit. You now have an energy blast, and its your ranged attack skill and dexterity that, like all other ranged attack spells, determines how good you are at attacking with it. (And while we're running off Elemental Bolt, its how much raw energy you pump into it that determines how powerful it is anyway, where the attack roll is just how good you are at hitting the other guy with it.)

Edit : Wait, on rereading your post I think I accidentally misread it as you claiming thrown attacks didn't use Dexterity, and it looks like you're just pointing out that the throwing skill exists too.

The difference between Throwing and Archery is that Throwing deals with weapons that are projectiles in and off themselves, where Archery deals with weapons that use projectiles. I'd guess Elemental Bolt Attack got lumped into archery because it's a charm that generates projectiles, which is much like a normal energy gun that you feed energy into to get projectiles, but I already mentioned that if I was houseruling it I wouldn't have any issue with letting people use Thrown, so if you were saying that people should be able to use Thrown if they want to I can't disagree.

 

You completely miss my point. If archery were just a skill you used to measure you ability with all ranged attacks there wouldn't be a Thrown ability. Dexterity measures your ability to aim, while archery only measures your ability to use a specific set of ranged weapons which Dragon Shot does not fall into by virtue of being a bigass fucking fireball made of magic and not a weapon.

It is. That's what it is in the native setting. Same as Dress Break, same as Bilingual. I'm not going to convert it over to the sorcery system and make it some stupidly unwieldy ritual spell when DxD sorcery is vastly superior to Exalted sorcery when it comes to being useful in combat.

Bingo.

 

[X]Find out the Cause.

 

Fuck yeah, fightin time.
[X] Run with the girl. Goad the thugs into attacking you and dodge around them to reach the girl when they take a swing at you. Sweep the girl off her feet and carry her bridal style, then leap up to a handy fire escape ladder that's just over her head. Use Monkey Leap if necessary.

Once the girl is out of the way:

[X] Attack with your fists.
-[X] Good, those fuckers' attention are onto you now. You grinned ferociously at them, intimidating them with your false (?) bravado. "Come get me if you can!" you yelled at them, as you rushed at the nearest thug, dodging his unskilled punch, and stepped on his shoulders. As he straightened himself in surprise, you used him as a spring board and launched yourself at the wall, before kicking yourself from the wall. Like a meteor falling, you introduced the heavily tattooed thug to your fist before he could react.

 

*faceplam*

There's the Issei we all know and utterly despise love are on speaking terms with.

 

[X] Attack with your fists.
-use performance to make it look good.
[X] Run with the girl. Goad the thugs into attacking you and dodge around them to reach the girl when they take a swing at you. Sweep the girl off her feet and carry her bridal style, then leap up to a handy fire escape ladder that's just over her head. Use Monkey Leap if necessary.
--[X] Then, once the girl is safely out of danger, deal with the thugs if you want.

 

Not now Ddraig, priority one is getting the girl out safely. Even if we're super kung-fu man she's still just an extra and therefore a potential hostage.

[X] Run with the girl. Goad the thugs into attacking you and dodge around them to reach the girl when they take a swing at you. Sweep the girl off her feet and carry her bridal style, then leap up to a handy fire escape ladder that's just over her head. Use Monkey Leap if necessary.

Once the girl is out of the way:

[X] Attack with your fists.
-[X] Good, those fuckers' attention are onto you now. You grinned ferociously at them, intimidating them with your false (?) bravado. "Come get me if you can!" you yelled at them, as you rushed at the nearest thug, dodging his unskilled punch, and stepped on his shoulders. As he straightened himself in surprise, you used him as a spring board and launched yourself at the wall, before kicking yourself from the wall. Like a meteor falling, you introduced the heavily tattooed thug to your fist before he could react.

No, those are unique to each splat unless the Solar is an Eclipse. Channeling the sun's light into forming a projectile is something several charms do already but they depend on having skill with thrown or melee attacks. A Solar fireball would be much more powerful than the Dragonblood equivalent in any event because Solar charms are awesomesauce.

 

[X] Run with the girl. Goad the thugs into attacking you, then dodge around them when they take a swing at you, grab the girl bridal style and leap up to a handy fire escape ladder that's just above you. Use Monkey Leap if necessary.
-[X] Then, once the girl is safely out of danger, deal with the thugs if you want.

 

When we get to deal with them thugs, will you vote for my initial fighting vote?

 

Consider it done.

 

Nope.

Dragonblooded Charms are Dragonblooded Charms and we're not a RAW Eclipse, so we can't learn them.

Martial Arts are a different matter entirely and as a Solar, we can learn all three tiers (Terrestrial, Celestial, and Sidereal), although we'd need a tutor for the highest levels of Martial Arts.

 

Solars can not learn other people's charms, no. (Please ignore the stupidity of the eclipse anima)

But Elemental Bolt Attack is the closest thing in the game to a typical Shonen energy blast type attack, so when making a typical shonen energy blast attack, the obvious thing is to work off of it.

Just taking it and making up a solar version isn't anything anyone should cry foul about, because it is the easiest way to make something appropriate.

And yet Archery is the skill you use for every other weapon that shoots bigass fireballs at people. :Eyes firewands, Essence Cannons, First Age Siege Weapons:

Archery and Thrown are the two ranged attack skills. It's going to fall under one of them, because it's a ranged attack. Complaining about how the system works isn't going to change that. And for whatever reason, the developers chose archery for the charm most like that kind of energy blast in exalted.

Occult, the academic skill for your academic knowledge of how magic works in general, was never and will never be in the running.

Then stop calling it a spell, because it would be a charm in Exalted. Spells are sorcery, and it isn't sorcery.

And a charm doesn't use strange combinations of Perception+Occult to do attacks.

 

For using weapons that throw fireballs at people, yes. Making the fireball yourself with your own essence and willpower is another matter entirely.

There is an enormous difference in execution between pointing a weapon at someone and pulling a trigger or drawing a bowstring compared to drawing out your essence, crafting it into a physical construct, and launching it at a target. They use entirely different skill sets; one is weapon usage, the other is magic. Why is this rocket science to you?

Yeah actually they do. Mind-Hand Manipulation uses Willpower + Occult.

 

[X] Run with the girl. Goad the thugs into attacking you and dodge around them to reach the girl when they take a swing at you. Sweep the girl off her feet and carry her bridal style, then leap up to a handy fire escape ladder that's just over her head. Use Monkey Leap if necessary.
--[X] Then, once the girl is safely out of danger...
---[X] Good, those fuckers' attention are onto you now. You grinned ferociously at them, intimidating them with your false (?) bravado. "Come get me if you can!" you yelled at them, as you rushed at the nearest thug, dodging his unskilled punch, and stepped on his shoulders. As he straightened himself in surprise, you used him as a spring board and launched yourself at the wall, before kicking yourself from the wall. Like a meteor falling, you introduced the heavily tattooed thug to your fist before he could react.

Yeah, combined Protoss and KingLugia's plan. Seems like a good combo.

 

Other people getting credit for my plans is going to be a running gag while I'm here, isn't it? :'(

 

And there is also an enormous difference between catapults, crossbows, firewands, slings, and essence cannons. Yet they all use Archery. Some are magic. That doesn't mean that Archery isn't what you use for them.

Archery and Thrown are the two ranged attack skills. If it doesn't fall under one, it will fall under another. Your dislike of that fact does not change it. It doesn't matter if they're made from fire, metal, wood, or crystallized sunlight, those are the skills for ranged weapons.

Huh, okay, I forgot that one.

 

Here's a simple question : does the attack automatically aim itself at the designated target ? If no, then you need Archery in order to AIM it at all.

[X] Run with the girl. Goad the thugs into attacking you and dodge around them to reach the girl when they take a swing at you. Sweep the girl off her feet and carry her bridal style, then leap up to a handy fire escape ladder that's just over her head. Use Monkey Leap if necessary.
--[X] Then, once the girl is safely out of danger...
---[X] Good, those fuckers' attention are onto you now. You grinned ferociously at them, intimidating them with your false (?) bravado. "Come get me if you can!" you yelled at them, as you rushed at the nearest thug, dodging his unskilled punch, and stepped on his shoulders. As he straightened himself in surprise, you used him as a spring board and launched yourself at the wall, before kicking yourself from the wall. Like a meteor falling, you introduced the heavily tattooed thug to your fist before he could react.

 

See the previous discussion on Archery vs Thrown weapons. Also there's the matter of Dexterity + Athletics being a valid alternate calculation for Elemental Bolt Attack, and other ranged attacks like MHM use other combinations of abilities and attributes. I maintain that combining Occult with some other trait makes the most sense for an attack which is formed and wielded entirely through essence use.

 

While I am writing the post (I'm on a roll!) there are two point I would like to address:

-Happerry and Smuthunter: please stop your argument. You can either: A) Continue it on PM or B) Wait until the opportunity to learn such a Charm present itself. Because for now it's all theoretical.
-Combined Protoss and KingLugia's plan was Smuthunter's idea. Thus all of three will be mentioned.

 

Darn I'm late. We won't suffer any penalty from getting her out of the way and then fighting will we?

 

Occult covers Essence Manipulation ?

 

Yep, definitely a running gag.

"Run and get her to safety, then fight if you feel like it" was my idea. Protoss edited his vote to coincide with mine, then I added Kinglugia's fighting stunt.

 

Ack, sorry .