I will become God-Harem King of the World! [Highschool DxD/Exalted] (CLOSED)

And I highly doubt that you've actually thought about the possibility at all. The Great Curse is insidious and sanity-eroding enough as it is without actively helping it along by deciding human morality doesn't apply to us anymore.

Except Bright and Ddraig aren't just saying we're beyond humans, they're saying we're inherently better than humans and the fact that we have power means we can do whatever we want with it regardless of how much misery we cause for everyone around us. That's straight-up Saturday morning cartoon villain logic.

 

The Great Curse is our Virtue Flaw right? While I admit a number of them are dangerous, ours at least stops us from hurting people. It makes us seem like an idiot & probably enrages our lover interests but no one gets hurt. Basically...Issei in canon.

Basically yeah. Don't disagree with this interpretation.

 

I have and quite frankly, I find the likelihood of it sufficiently low enough to be fine with it. Besides which, that sort of thing will only happen hundreds/thousands of years down the line, and by that point in time I doubt the quest will still be ongoing. Ignoring that, should we decide that human morality does not apply to us, we can still live by our own personal morals. There was nothing in their speeches about being completely amoral or immoral.

Exalts are inherently better then humans. Unless you happen to know of any humans who can do half the shit an exalt can do you don't have much scope for saying we're not better. Again, the word to note is whatever you want, and I doubt we'd manage to push Issei into being monster tier no matter how hard we tried.
Besides, Saturday cartoon villains have a noticeable tendency not to kill all that many people in their quest to take over the world or get all the money or whatever they're doing at the time.

 

I tend to think the Great Curse arguments are a bit overblown, but the thought that this choice will have consequences isn't. Remember that this will effect how Issei makes choices & how he'll respond to challenges & opposing viewpoints.

If we decide to go full SOLAR EXALT I can almost guarantee we'll get into conflict with Rias eventually. Remember she's trying to worm her way into our confidence & deciding our morality is righteousness pretty much ruins most chances of a good relationship with her. First because we become hard(er) to influence & we'll remind her all too much of a number of devils, like that one who wants to marry her. I doubt she'll actively oppose us, her own position is tentative(relative to other devils) & having beaten a fallen angel in combat we're strong enough to be a sufficient threat that she can't deal with us trivially. Us going to the same school & being a student also means that there will be some constraints(on both of us) on the tactics each can use. Romantic paths will be closed & there are some in her pieces that will instinctively respond badly to someone challenging their leader, if subtly & unknowingly.

Whether that's good or bad varies. If people want an INDEPENDENT! Issei then it works. Just seems prudent to comment on that this will strongly flavor Issei's relationships with other characters.

 

Guess again. It stops us from hurting one specific person, everyone else is fair game.

There's a famous Solar sorceress by the name of Salina, whose virtue flaw was Unshakable Crusade, a compassion-based limit break like ours is. Her limit used to increase whenever she witnessed injustices, and then when she broke her limit she would become obsessed with righting those wrongs by whatever means were necessary. She's most famous for the Salinan Working, which is a sorcerous pattern she wove into the fabric of Creation that allows anyone to learn sorcery by observing the world around them. Now think about that: with no oversight and no guidance beyond her own will, Salina essentially wrote a new law of physics, and in the process she came perilously close to unraveling all of Creation into the Wyld. Over a crusade for social justice and equal access to magic.

You want to know how our limit break can go horribly horribly wrong? We limit break around one of our enemies and fall head over heels for someone like Raynare, who gives us an order like "Prove your love to me by bringing me the heads of all your other harem girls."

 

I didn't say that this choice was meaningless, only that the "Issei will become baby killing monster" thing was so unlikely to happen it wasn't even funny.

To be fair, Issei is unlikely to be all that hard to influence for her. And depending on how it turns out, a mixture of living free and thinking our actions are authority and greatness might not result in that bad a relationship with her. Hell, if we help with her freedom (Raizer and his marriage to her) she might actually like us,

We pretty much already started on the independent route when we chose to be a magician attached to the Gremory clan as opposed to a demon in it or anything else.

 

Pertinent text from the limit break:

That doesn't really strike me as the sort of thing Raynare would notice, nor something that can likely be used to kill our friends, because fighting them would put ourselves in danger.

 

Valid point. Falling in love with the wrong girl could cause problems. But I think Malcolmo has a point that we can stop ourselves from placing ourselves in danger.

Heh true. Issei isn't the hardest to influence.

 

No she didn't. At no point does it ever state that, and you would think they would mention it in her write up in Dreams of the First Age. Second, she did in fact have oversight. She pulled it off by tricking the Deliberative into granting her the authority to do so in bits and pieces. Finally, she had tons of help.

 

The thing is, that's true. Exalted are in fact, innately better than humans.

 

Better is sort of a loaded term. They have better capacity to succeed at most things some spectacularly moreos. It's up in the air whether having a Solar lead a government results in a better outcome.

 

IIRC exalted have charms to help them with that, not to mention the fact that they have ways of increacing dice pool making them better at something even if they've never done it before and all that's before you consider the fact that exalts can live longer then humans and thus gather more experience at the job and life in general.
In short, yeah they would do a better job.

 

Eh.

The only state where in an Exalt is not better than a human inherently is morality and (given equal information and derivatives) judgement.

 

By what measure? Better at swording things to death, sure. Better at convincing people to do stuff for them, sure. Better at sailing, stealing, killing, writing, learning, all that stuff, sure. But wiser? More morally upright? More worthy of life and happiness? Blatantly false on all counts, or else the Usurpation would never have been necessary.

This is what I'm really trying to get Issei to internalize with my vote; he has the power to make people listen to him. He can, if he so chooses, go into Japanese politics and get elected easily if he invests in socialize charms. But he lacks the wisdom to rule effectively. He can be a king but he'll be a shitty king unless he takes things one step at a time.

Historically-speaking pretty much every government ever run by a Solar has degenerated into one form of horrible dystopia or another so I'm going to call bullshit on this.

 

Wrong. Whitewall as the first example off the top of my head.

 

It does. This is canon, and obvious by the fact that they are absurdly more competent than mortals. There is a reason the First Age was prosperous beyond anything Creation ever saw. Solars are in fact really, really good at running stuff.

The whole "hold back from using his power" thing is actually counter to being able to Exalt. In order to Exalt, you need to be the type of person who would use the power rather than sit on it.

As for wisdom, wise Solars are indeed wiser than almost any mortal, just like decadent Solars are more so than any mortal. Comes with being a larger than life figure who lives for aeons.

 

So basically, they're too competent... to the point where said competence applies to the wrong things (depending on your PoV) subconsciously as well, right?

 

It seems like the Solars worked initially. First Age Prosperity and all that, but as time went on & the Great Curse Traits become exaggerated(I heard it gets worse with age) & their lifespans became many multiples that of mortals(as well as boredom) they became disconnected & isolated from those which they ruled.

 

Completely and utterly false. Wisdom is not something that can be gotten from charms or Exaltation. Knowledge perhaps, but not wisdom. The developers came out and said on the Onyx Path forums that the history of Creation is essentially a parable about the dangers of wielding power without wisdom -- first by the Primordials, next by the Solars, and now by the Dragonbloods.

 

No, it is a character trait. Solars have character traits that are far in excess of a standard person. So one that is wise would in fact be wiser than almost any mortal.

 

I can't help but feel that while this debate has been informative people haven't voted for a while. I'd rather not clutter up the thread anymore with discussions about Solars in the First Age making Alexander think there's still voting going on.

 

Excellencies. I always forget about them. Even when they are always so useful.

Yeah. Or, more simply, what they think is best for them isn't so for other people. Law of nature.

Votes closed. Winner is:

[X] You don't know
- "That sounds awesome, but I still feel like a normal kid when I'm not doing all this kung-fu stuff. If I'm some kind of dragon king then I'm a really stupid king who only knows how to punch things and throw fireballs."
[X] Just knock out all of them.

Rolling:
[blockquote]Rolled 5d10 : 9, 7, 10, 9, 6, total 41[/blockquote]

[blockquote]Rolled 2d10 : 9, 5, total 14[/blockquote]

Writing...

 

Wrong. Virtues are also a character trait but everything in the setting is capped at five dots in any of their virtues. And while we're at it, point out to me where exactly on the Solar character sheet is the "wisdom" stat, or for that matter anything else that lets a player say "see, I'm too enlightened to make mistakes." You can't because there isn't one.

 

If I heard correctly, then the Solars are very well capable of leading nations and worlds with greater Efficiency, wisdom and skill then any mortal man. The Problem is not in their lack of ability, but the fact that many Solars in the First Age just didn't care enough. They didn't ruin nations because they were bad at economics, but for shit and giggles. At least if I understand it right.

 

Define morally upright please. Also explain how you judge worthiness of life and happiness as well as why the Sidereals of all people are supposed to be the finer judges of that.
Ignoring that, Usurpation happened because the Solars were going insane due to their curse and boredom of having lived so long with nothing interesting happening. The former isn't happening any time soon and the latter is so unlikely it's not even funny.

 

[X] Leave it be. Concentrate on the Fallen Angels.

[X] Run away.

Do NOT involve the mortal!

 

[X] Write-in. Monitor them for now. See what you can learn about them without raising your profile higher or intruding on their turf. It'd be a mistake to focus on them & be blindsided to a Fallen Angel attack, but while they may not be a threat to you they don't need supernatural powers to hurt your family.

[X] Look around as if confirming no one else is looking. Cup your hand to the side & speak in a low conspiratorial voice as if you are admitting a great secret,"I do. But this isn't something we should discuss so openly. Is there somewhere else we can continue this discussion, someone more private? A restaurant perhaps?"

Harem Get!

 

[X] Continue. Investigate more about this Snake.

[X] Change the subject in a completely obvious manner.

 

[X] megrisvernin