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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Mr Zoat, Jan 27, 2019.

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  1. Noctus

    Noctus I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Thanks so much!! Really appreciate it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2022
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  2. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    No problem.
     
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  3. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    A minor correction.

    Maybe add a space between the : and 'Data'.

    The other spoiler boxes have a space.
     
  4. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    The issue is that he doesn't think of 'the Nazis' as a monolithic blob. There are probably a few people who were involved in the genocide alive, but they're in nursing homes and aren't involved in running things now. The people who are are their grandchildren.
    Thank you, corrected.
     
  5. Noctus

    Noctus I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    You aren't responsible for the things your grandfather did. But you ARE responsible for the things that you're doing. The reprehensible treatment that continues on Nazi earth is very much their fault and they absolutely deserve to bleed for what they're doing.

    Being a monolithic blob is kinda the point of facism. You know, "one master race" "everyone else is subhuman" etc.

    Regardless arguing this sort of thing on a fanfiction forum is a waste of time.

    Anyways I do like your story. But there are parts of Paul that bother me a lot. Like his unrepentant imperialism. Just got to him and Jade visiting Havania and his comments about the enslavement of the local people - oof.

    The Nazi world arc was only one such example. But that's normal for any story and any self insert. And I still, as a whole, enjoy this story.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2022
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  6. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    True, but those grandchildren are still continuing their grandparents work.

    They're still killing 'undesirables', they're still oppressing other races etc.

    Yep.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2022
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  7. Cuchulin

    Cuchulin Versed in the lewd.

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    Good points, on the other hand he was teaming up with the Nazis to stop Demon Lord Superman who was creating hell on a Alt Earth. I'd argue that it is better to team up with Fascists to fight a threat like Demon Lord Superman than almost any other group, because they tend to be good at fighting and if they get hurt or killed? Than it isn't that much of a loss compared the same thing happening to non-Fascists.
     
  8. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Other race. Singular. And since black people only exist in Africa, most of them have no contact with black people.
     
  9. Brainwasher-Boy

    Brainwasher-Boy Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

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    You know what? I'm calling it now: Zeus is going to release Wonder Woman from her "duty" in Tartarus, without the need for any violence. He might not be the brightest bolt in the storm cloud, but if he can't see how utterly fucked he is when Paul rolls up to Mount Olympus, he should have died from stupidity centuries ago.

    Either that, or we're missing something that Paul's not prepared for. The only realistic way Zeus doesn't kowtow when Paul comes knocking is if he has some major ace up his sleeve he knows could beat him.

    Sure, maybe Zeus is just some cocky idiot, but that sounds like the most boring of the three options.
     
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  10. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    But the Nazi government has contact with them and makes their life a miserable existence, so maybe something should be done about that.

    Paul might still choose to go after him since he'd still be a piece of shit rapist and leaving him with power is just asking for trouble.
     
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  11. Vaermina

    Vaermina Well worn.

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    The easiest way for Zeus to counter LePaul, would be for Zeus to cast Summon Wonder Woman, since she very explicitly didn't want LePaul doing this sort of thing.

    Mind you, given Zoat's history so far my money's firmly on Zeus being rewritten to be just a cocky idiot.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2022
  12. Patrick Holt

    Patrick Holt Getting sticky.

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    A few more words from Blitzen



    Not sure about the blue ones but if she calls Jay "vater" should they be vuture, and Virst. I know she uses f to say frik the man and Führer so not sure on the accent here.

    This doesn't make sense should it be in?
    I can stand on a small toilet, or was he just saying he wouldn't have appeared next to her?
     
  13. _The_Bomb

    _The_Bomb Getting sticky.

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    One thousand of them, yes. Or a million, if you go by the stupid system the British use.
    Ah, that’s a shame. Watching Paul absolutely shatter the worldview of powerful beings is honestly my favorite part of this quest. It makes sense that he would prioritize getting them back on task when he’s this mad, but damn is it a shame that he didn’t take this opportunity.
     
  14. Luma

    Luma Getting out there.

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    Not gonna lie, if it were me, I'd rather team up with the demons to destroy the fascists than the other way around. Nazi Earth is indescribably more horrific than demon Earth.
    Nazis would obviously continue to designate various racial out-groups, probably indefinitely. And the fact that they have no contact with black people clearly doesn't stop them from oppressing them.

    Maybe someone should set Earth -14 on them, they could do with some martial law.
     
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  15. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    We don't actually use that system. Haven't for decades, no matter how much more sense it makes.
     
  16. _The_Bomb

    _The_Bomb Getting sticky.

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    You’re telling me that the fact that my thermo professor used this system was odd even amongst British people?!

    That’s…..that’s even worse!

    (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
     
  17. Coda

    Coda Versed in the lewd.

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    its

    On the flip side, a character who has powers that go neglected when they would be the best way to solve a problem is ALSO super annoying, and combating that is one of the core themes of this entire fic.

    "Vater" is just straight up the German word, it's not an accent.
     
  18. Michael Vonica

    Michael Vonica Know what you're doing yet?

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    How is that at all safe? Does Hecate have some sort of intense code of honor that would stop her from killing someone she doesn't like? The same grumpy goddess who empowers Circe?
     
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  19. topin89

    topin89 Virgin Centrist

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    I think that's not the real reason for annoyance, and more about no major character development for a looong time, at least for the paragon timeline. I mean, I'm skimming first chapters now, and personal changes are everywhere.

    You can see how Paul changed his attitude towards the League after he'd killed Clayface. Kon's gradual social adaptation, Wallace's progression from denial of magic to health potions, other individual grows and the team's social shift. Villains reformation, Paul's relationship with Jade. Enlightenment.

    It feels like for Paragon timeline everything stopped right after he'd defeated Klarion and Nabu. We got his arc culmination and everything after feels like a long epilogue. There was Heaven and Hell arc, with major villain revelation. Really big event. Now, had it changed our hero's motivation, internal thoughts, priorities, anything? Even if it had, I most certainly can't see it. All we got is that to request for some of Sivanas to investigate. Sheeda's Invasion arc? Honestly, it feels like the whole world just shrugging it off. He got qwa-matter in the face and his worries were if his clones' brains can think. I suppose even if he becomes a New God of Utilitarianism, changes would be cosmetic at best.

    Renegade had it better. He steamrolled the Light and with it his relationship with Jade, and it changed him. Killed Klarion and was alienated by his peers for the trouble. Saved Lynne and in doing so he had become a father. He got a piece of Anti-Life life equation and struggled to get his emotions back. He got rid of said peace and strengthen his relationship with Luna in the process. Last time, he merged with actual Grayven and if his interludes are any indication, he now has troubles differentiating his former self from Grayven's and not thinking of Apokolyps as his place of origin. So, no wonder his timeline grows in popularity.

    At that point, if we can't see inner world shift in out lead character, what about secondaries? Fortunately, they do change. Flash saw enough of Sheeda's deeds to go for lethal option when his best course of action was to swallow the rage. Xor had come a long way from rigid concept of honor to understanding what "world is wrong" means and now slowly absorbs orange philosophy. Komand'r overcame her condition. Nazi supergirl saw exactly how horrible the Third Reich is. Wonder Woman finally got snake eye protection.

    Same for the Renegade timeline. The problem is, Paul interacts with tonnes of different characters and the story constantly shifts attention between them, so it's hard to feel progress of any individual person. Like, right now we (probably) would see changes in Olympic Pantheon and maybe some shift in Eris's motivation. And then moving on to something completely different.

    That being said, I still enjoy reading this story. I just look at it from a different angle.

    Not every series needs constant character development or constant story progress, or even both. I mean, CSI have none of that, and it's still popular. I think. Didn't really watch it. If you don't like CSI, replace with something you do like, it's all about type of fiction. So, imagine if there was a series like CSI, but first three seasons were an origin story, and everything else a classic no major plot procedural. That's what With This Ring now, with more superheroics and less crime investigation.

    There's another angle. You can read this as slice of life superheroics. Like, imagine Superman series not focused on hard missions, life and death situations and difficult decisions, but on common robbery, street fights, cats on trees and same such. Banter with Batman at the Watchtower, flirting with Louis, dinner with parents. Ten years ago I would think it would be boring, and then I watched an episode of one slice of life anime where for ten minutes schoolgirls discussed at which end you should eat choco-cornet. Ten. Minutes. Half of an episode. And it was entertaining. I didn't even realize it was this long until advertisement cut.

    Finally, for all I know, all this may be intentional. All this constantness may be so when everything changes we could feel it more by contrast. Like, Paul's major antagonist is Boss Status Quo. This may be his influence all along. I mean, isn't it strange that after planetary invasion it's business as usual?

    P.S. Still waiting for John Constantine arc resolution. Always are, Always will. Until it resolves.
     
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  20. Mastigos2

    Mastigos2 Versed in the lewd.

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    This is more him burning MAJOR favors like mad.
    Hell, I'm just waiting for Zeus to pull the "just because I can't see YOU doesn't mean I can't see the people you talk to ABOUT USURPING ME" card.
    I rather think Murphy would get pimpslapped by Eris and then she'd take over the " rubbing (her) hands together in glee at the sheer potential for mayhem" position
     
  21. Vaermina

    Vaermina Well worn.

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    Given Hera was able to see him, Zeus certain should be able to.
     
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  22. Cuchulin

    Cuchulin Versed in the lewd.

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    ...Did you even bother to read the parts about Demon Lord Superman's Earth? Because that world was dying, no one was really safe from being maimed or kill and most people would have been much better off in a Mad Max style wasteland.
    Also team up with literal embodiments of evil slowly torturing people to death against a group the includes people that are misguided, willing to jump at chance to escape their fascist society or even actively trying change things for the better? Yeah, seems like you are siding with hell against both the Nazis AND the Justice League.
    Seriously, maybe you need to look in the mirror and ask who the real "bad guy" is.

    Except that they aren't really doing that, They are mostly content with what they have and how things are.
     
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  23. Michael Vonica

    Michael Vonica Know what you're doing yet?

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    A fate worse than death was implied for Zeus. This story is getting a bit formulaic. Here's a prediction. Zeus walks in on the Titan ritual to share some stern words on everyone planning his death. The ritual gets ruined somehow, and goes out of control. Zeus and Hephaestus get sucked into the baby titan, and turn into some horrible electric metal machine god.
     
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  24. Threadmarks: Coup Data (part 19)
    Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    27th October 2012
    18:39 GMT +3


    While Queen Mera could probably convey herself through the waters of the underworld in greater comfort than she feels in my construct-grip, that would mean enduring the effects of the water. As a result, she's looking around with a considerable degree of curiosity while seated in a construct aircraft chair.

    Artur stayed behind with his father. I really think it was a bit much for Orin to call this 'an insane scheme', and I did notice him biting down the rest of that sentence. What's insane about using a titan to empower a crippled god to overthrow the head of the pantheon to free a woman from a place she doesn't want to leave?

    "I've been meaning to ask. Why does every Atlantean I've spoken to get uncomfortable when I mention Queen Gamemnae? Sephtian told me that he didn't know exactly what she did…"

    "I doubt that anyone alive does. With the return of Mighty Adom to Kahndaq I have taken the opportunity to study that period of our history, and it was an unpleasant time and long ago. Our records are far from perfect, and much that is commonly believed has come from myth and legend."

    I mentally shrug. We live in a world where people who believe that the Roman Empire didn't exist are allowed out in public. I can hardly expect the Atlanteans to keep perfect records for five thousand years.

    "As you know, she was a sorceress of incredible skill and power. She was sent into exile from Poseidonis as a child, and returned as a powerful sorceress. Supposedly, she returned the entire continent of Atlantis to the surface and turned the entire population into who they were before Ahri'ahn altered their ancestors."

    "Removing the Purebloods' superior strength and endurance would make it easier to maintain control. I mean I… Doubt that she inherited the title."

    "Perhaps. She is also supposed to have allowed any who would not serve under her rule to drown in waters that they had easily have breathed before she worked her magic."

    "I wonder how she got that powerful. I can't think of any other magic traditions in the area that were the equal of the Atlantean one."

    "If it happened like that at all, I would guess that she was educated by the descendants of Atlantean exiles. It was the trauma of so much upheaval and death that left her name as a curse in our culture. If you want an accurate record of her history, Adom would be a better person to speak with."

    "Yes, but I don't want to mess about with his memory of his old friends. His positive attitude to Atlantis is at least partially based on it."

    "It is a pleasant change to have a nation in the Middle East open to the use of magic."

    "Sephtian mentioned that her body.. was..?"

    Mera smiles and shakes her head. "A myth. The Temple of Orcus holds no body that could come from so powerful a sorceress. I believe that it was later addition to the story. Older versions of the myth mention the bodies of her victims piled to the roof or the bodies of the royal family drowned by her spells."

    "I didn't think undoing the spells altering Atlanteans was possible."

    "All things are possible. But I do not know how she might have done it. It should be beyond any mortal." Her eye is caught by Persephone's forest. "This place is not what I expected."

    "Nothing like Orcus's domain?"

    "No. The domain of Orcus is supposedly a far drearier place."

    "It's not too late to change lanes. Shop around a little for superior afterlife services."

    "It would be politically unwise. Orin is a Christian, and while Atlantis is not a deeply religious country it would not look well for both monarchs to bow to foreign gods."

    "Then send Orcus our way and we'll see about bringing him up to our level."

    "I have never spoken to him directly. According to our priests, our gods speak even to them only extremely infrequently and indirectly."

    "There's your problem! How can they possibly provide a good service if they don't know what the customer base want?"

    I bring us into land, noting the absence of dead witches and spotting my own patron- "Hey, Eris!" -taking a smoke outside Hecate's home.

    "Hey hay, I'm Eris." She lowers her cigarette and looks Mera over. "I think Hecate needs a bigger house."

    "What do I want out of life and death?"

    She frowns. "You know what you-. Are you seriously testing me?" I nod. "If you hadn't just won me a bet with that spear I'd nearly be annoyed. You want people to stop being stupid and to take the opportunities presented to them. You want the Reach gone so you can build a new civilisation I'd say from its ashes, but you'd probably say something about people being unified by shared adversity. You like helping people but aren't prepared to completely baby them -which I appreciate- because if you have to do everything then what's the point of anyone else even existing."

    "That's life."

    "I don't believe you'll stay dead next time any more than you did the last two."

    "Good answer. And that's why she's better than Discordia."

    Eris smiles at me fondly, making eye contact with Mera. "See, that's what's great about him. I think I'm about to have to thump an uppity mortal, then he comes up with something like that and it means more because I know he means it. Now gimme that spear."

    Mera hesitates for a moment, but while she's an archmage Eris is a goddess and her decision was effectively made the moment she agreed to come down here. Dismissing the protective spells she placed upon it, she cautiously hands it-.

    Eris grabs it from her and stares at it as if transfixed.

    "I don't even know what this is."

    "Technically, we don't either. It's usually referred to as the Spear of Destiny, but its precise origin is lost in the mists of time. And you can tell what it does."

    Eris skips back into Hecate's house. "Hec-a-tay! My guy wiiii-iiins!"

    "Shall we?"

    Mera and I enter the… Huh. It's expanded again, and the empty pool-area outside is explained by the fact that they're all hard at work in here. Since their knowledge of thaumaturgy is 'poor' by modern standards they're forced to brute force spells guided by their long experience, casting and reacting and judging by feel whether it works or not. The Maltusian power ring is on a plinth in the centre of the ritual space, and Eris has marches over to Hecate to wave the spear at her. We follow after her as Hecate stares at it, then tries to get it off the boasting chaos goddess.

    "Eris, not the time."

    Eris pantomimes sighing, then offers it to Hecate.

    "This…" I feel Hecate running power into it and notice Mera shuddering faintly next to me.

    Hephaestus looks it over, before turning to the fascinated Hecate. "Will it work?"

    "'Will it'-? Is that all that occurs to you?" Hecate keeps working, beckoning to some of her devotees with her spare hand. "This, and more besides. We will need to rework the spell to take this… This thing into account."

    Mera takes a step closer. "Might I enquire-?"

    Hecate looks at her for about half a second. "If you want to help, grab a bench. We're going to break history here!"

    "Do you mean-?"

    "I know what I said!"
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2023
  25. Doccer

    Doccer I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    fact
     
  26. Revlis

    Revlis Getting sticky.

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    Again? We just fixed it last season. Someone warn Time Trapper Paul.
     
  27. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Thank you, corrected.
    Guest right. Plus, they're women who haven't seen a child for a long time.
     
  28. Someguy Somewhere

    Someguy Somewhere The Critical Fumbler

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    That's not terrifying in the least......

    Anyone got a spare planeshifter? You know...just in case folks want to visit a safe universe for a little while....I hear WHFB 'verse is just wonderful this time of year....
     
  29. NightmareWarden

    NightmareWarden Versed in the lewd.

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    I’d prefer Shadowrun. Making Dunklezahn smile is worth a lot of that world’s hellish conditions. Making him smile after causing others to fail in their fiendish endeavors? Even better. Now if only the writers would stop pretzeling the timeline…

    Mr Zoat, has Eris read Paul’s Orange Light pamphlet/book? Does she have any interest in writing about discordianism as a way of life? If not a book, perhaps a YouTube video filled with dancing.
     
  30. Yog

    Yog Know what you're doing yet?

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    So, two things to consider:
    1) Spear of Destiny might be Destruction's totemic item (which in comic is a sword, yes, but that might be perception thing), which he left behind when leaving his position.
    2) A thing Paul might not have considered - Hephaeustus is a Forge god. Spear of Destiny, by dint of being a spear falls into his natural domain. In addition to the domain of technology (which also covers the ring). I think that might amplify the ritual beyond what everyone expects.
     
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