General World of Darkness Discussion Thread QQ Edition

Thanks, found it, it's in the damn Appendix. I tried to look at the part about the Order of Hermes, which as a whole bit about them and France. One would guess they would have added something there, like "oh and the order is hated in south france", nah that is only mentioned in the appendix. Not sure what to think of the appendix, it makes the Order of Hermes, out to be even bigger asses, like they could have given a number of reason for why they didn't interfere like the war with Tremere going on at the time and they not wanting to create conflict in the their own bases. But nope, seems like they just didn't care, even when most of south french started hating Mage because of like seven dudes who were creating magical plagues and testing them on commoners... I would get it if that happened in like Hungary or so, but in motherfucking France, the on country the order actually cares about? Feels kind of strange.

The part about the Craftmasons not debating or discussing their approach to Magic also sounds kind of weird, wasn't freely sharing their way of doing stuff?

 

Yes, one can tell the problems and holes in the writing already.

 

So today I learned that there is a Vampire Translation Guide made by WW for combining VTM Revised and VtR 1E. I did always wonder why there were ones for Mage, Demons and so on, but not for Vampire. Turns out there is one it's just not published by Onyx like the rest of them, the more you know. Just wanted to put that out here in case more people have missed it.

 

Should I remake my Fate/Stay Night + Mage: The Awakening fanfic, or is it better to let it die?

 

I mean, it's up to you. Do you feel you can do it better or continue from where you left? If not, its better dead.

 

More like, I can do it better, but I need someone who is an expert in both settings to fully bring out the story idea's potential.

 

I've been planning a world of darkness fic and been reading through my V5 books.

My annoyance rises.

One of the interspersed fictions in notes has a dialogue between Critias and a character named Mercy.

There is a person named Mercy Valdez, but...the note makes it seem like Critias (an at least 5th get Brujah) frenzied due to a comment she made about Menele.

I...find it hard to believe that someone would survive that. Outside of that, the timeline in general is wonky (before we get into v5 retcons like making Kathy Glens Indian now...which...they could have brought back some of the other characters who weren't white. They brought Nero back from the dead Garwood, the blues loving, trumpet playing lightning wizard is right there in first edition and he's the only member of the group that has stayed dead). The Mercy character in the book also makes no mention of the Camarilla in her profile and mentions looking for a vampire society that isn't anarchs so either these are two different characters and they fucked up by using the same name, or it his the same one and they fucked up in a different way

Then there is the conversation

Spoiler: v5 notes

CRITIAS: So how did you end up here in Chicago, Mercy?

MERCY: I was born here. My name doesn’t just straight away make me a migrant.

CRITIAS: My apologies. I watch the news occa- sionally, you see—

MERCY: Plenty of Latinas were born here old man.

CRITIAS: I’ll try again. What is it you love about this city? This domain?

MERCY: Chicago’s always been so alive and filled with a drive to bring about change. I’ve always wanted to be a part of that.

CRITIAS: What makes you believe you are worthy of joining my academy?

MERCY: I thought this was some Prince-mandated bullshit. I have a choice?

CRITIAS: We don’t all have a choice. But in this, you do. Be smart.

MERCY: I guess it’s not going to hurt to find out about the values of our kind.

CRITIAS: And what makes you believe I should waste my time with you?

MERCY: Because I am worth it. I’m a fighter, and will continue to fight.

CRITIAS: I see. And what of your religious beliefs? Do you see those as a driving force of change?

MERCY: Yes and no. That question is complicated. My heart knows this is where I need to be. My religion tells me I need to find some peace with my condition.

CRITIAS: And now that you’ve heard the rumors, how do you feel about Menele and everything he was able to accomplish within this city?

MERCY: From what I heard from your clanmates, your sire was a pillar of humanity and someone who could have brought great good to this city and this sect. It’s a shame he left, I guess.

CRITIAS: [Shouting] You are wrong! You have been deceived as well! Until you are able to see clearly, you are nothing more than a pawn. Leave my school!

[Sounds of items being destroyed and footsteps running out]

Which....I have feelings here

One, Critias was active throughout a long period of Chicago's history and was staying in UChicago. He knows about Latinos.

Two, Critias older than the Roman Empire. This is the guy who can talk all annoyed about "That tribe from Latium looting Athens and LOST the crown jewel of the Parthenon"

It doesn't really make sense for him to be out of touch even if he spent a few years analyzing his head for lingering mind control, and if he was going to be racist it would be in an entirely different way.

Just, old Athenian man talking about Barbarians over on an island separate from Europe before talking about legends involving the Fir Bolg


My complaints are not totally due to using Garwood in my games with him using magic and music for sound effects *him and the tremere player making rainclouds indoors while he plays sad music*

 

Why must you subject yourself to such pain?

Also, as you write a Fate fanfic, mind if I consult you for ideas on what to write?

I've been thinking of either reviving my existent Fate + Mage the Awakening crossover or making a new one, which involves Kirsctachia Wodime from Fate/Grand Order getting reincarnated in the New World of Darkness 2e/Chronicles of Darkness and getting a second chance there as a Mage.

Or reincarnating him in the Old World of Darkness as a member of the Order of Hermes.

 

Sure on the advice part.

I subject myself to the pain so I can write a malkavian SI that abuses Craft/Science/Tech build backed with Obfuscate.

Brujah: We rebel

Malkavian with a grocery cart full of molotov cocktails: *sets towel on fire, walks away*

I do not know nWoD that well. Wodime would probably be Fate/Space if he wanted to replicate his magecraft. There are ties to Atlantis there if you want to use that

 

I know full well. In Awakening, Atlantis is actually shorthand for a city/civilization of Awakened whose hubris allowed Reality to be conquered by a small elite of tyrants with only a small group of saboteurs resisting them and allowing new Mages to be born.

As for oWoD, would it be all right to reincarnate Wodime as a member of House Flambeau, Thig, or Verditius (after combining with Thig)?

Or should I go even further back and have him reincarnate in the Dark Ages so he can avert the formation of the Order of Reason/Technocracy and the Traditions?

 

DA or modern is more of a thing dependent on what kind of story you want to write.

Flambeau would probably make more sense in terms of specialty, though House Thig starting out as British Orphans would be a good way to have him starting out by trying to teach others magic before finding out about the larger world

 

I also have another idea for an FGO + Old World of Darkness Crossover Fic - CHALDEA versus the Technocracy.

What are your thoughts on it?

 

And you were reading Chicago by Night which is the best book of all the V5 ones (imo).

I don't think he frenzied there. You can still be angry and destroy stuff without giving into a frenzy. (Also he spend three days in a frenzy after Menele left, how is the university still standing?) But he canonically hasn't the best self control, only had a rating of 2 back in the old book, so there is that.

It makes a bit of sense, as a lot of shit has been going down in the supernatural communities, I assume he spend the time, he wasn't spending question every move he had made for the last 2000 years or trying to figure out "who he really is", trying to keep up with all the changes in vamp society. But still he would only be out of touch with the last ten years or so.

But the whole Latino parts doesn't make any fucking sense, makes him sound like he completely forgot the last 80-90 years (which as far as I know isn't part of any plot-hooks proposed in the book), Okay 80-90 years isn't that long for someone who is over 2000 years old, but still one would assume he still would see the social changes around him.

 

new episode.

Markus is awakening as entropy mage

 

Come to think of it, there have been quite a few Word of Darkness compatible miniature releases in September and upcoming October

Heroes Infinite
October - Vampires

Spoiler

https://www.heroesinfinite.com/blog/October2022

September - Arthurian Legend - Perfect for Dark Ages

Spoiler

Artisan Guild
October - Mages, Elementals and Golems

Spoiler

https://www.patreon.com/posts/updated-with-new-72450111

September - Demon Hunters - That also happen to be Werewolves

Spoiler

White Werewolf Tavern
September - Werewolves - and the Wyrm!

Spoiler

https://www.myminifactory.com/tribe...avern_September_Release_Werewolf_Madness-8476

Titan Forge
October - Vampires, Zombies and Zombie Dragon (if you want a full vampire army)
https://www.patreon.com/posts/october-full-72382525
https://www.patreon.com/posts/hmm-upgrades-of-72323978 SciFi
https://www.patreon.com/posts/cyber-news-11-72550395 Grid Wars Box

September - Monks and Dragon (for Hengeyokai)
https://www.myminifactory.com/tribes/TitanForgeMiniatures/posts/September_releases_are_here-8272

Dragon Trappers Lodge
September - Ooozes VS Minics (perfect for some Umbra fun)
https://www.myminifactory.com/tribe...VS_Mimics_RELEASE_PREVIEW_SEPTEMBER_2022-8126

Crippled God Foundry
October - Anniversary Mega Release and Quest for the Darkstone
https://www.myminifactory.com/tribe...one_Our_Anniversary_miniature_collection-8882
https://www.myminifactory.com/tribe...for_the_Darkstone_October_Release_Reveal-8859

September - Nagah
https://www.myminifactory.com/tribe..._Release_Reveal_Era_of_the_Great_Serpent-7854

Warploque Miniatures
October - Halflings (for Changeling)
https://www.patreon.com/posts/surprise-october-72579085

September - Monsters of Britain (for Changeling)
https://www.patreon.com/posts/september-2022-2-71356656

Battle Yak
October - Scarecrows Vol 2 (the first set will be 50% off)
https://www.patreon.com/posts/harrowhaunt-72481450

September - Treants (for Changeling)
https://www.patreon.com/posts/strongroot-and-71397988

Lord of the Print
October - Vampire Army (with a cool Tzimisce unit)
https://www.myminifactory.com/tribe..._Order_Immortalis_Big_Update_3rd_Teasing-8994

September - Let's Burn The Sacred Forest (Princess Mononke inspired - perfect for Werewolf)
https://www.myminifactory.com/tribe...ber_Release_Let_s_Burn_the_Sacred_Forest-8225

Archvillain Games
October - Vampires (that are not included in the other three armies)
https://www.myminifactory.com/tribe...oodright_Scarlet_Scourge_contest_results-9044

September - Swamp Witches (for Changeling or Werewolf)
https://www.myminifactory.com/tribe...ember_Griefharvest_Coven_contest_results-7975


Grab them while they are on sale

 

I had a flash of inspiration for Mixed Family, my CofD fanfiction!

 

Oh right, haven't shared this news here

Might as well do it now. From SB.

I was going to do a fun fact about how Ravnos Elder with high Banality makes no sense since they are basically Mages in disguise but something took away my enthusiasm.

So have an objective fact, W5 is officially isn't a continuation of the Werewolf the Apocalypse as we know it, it's just using its elements and names. It's a...reimagining, a remake if you will.

Here is the full article on the World of Darkness website. Get of Fenrir got the boot, Wendigo is...Galestalkers? And some new Ghost Council which I thought was Silent Striders since they got the Travel verb, my bad. (Also, Verbs are stupid)
I have to say, I expected many things but wow, these one-two punches weren't it. Just ugh, I know for a fact that this edition isn't going to be me, so I will be sticking to "Legacy" editions as they say.

Spoiler: Here are the Tribes

 

I can already tell that Werewolf the Forsaken (CofD/nWoD) 2e has done the implied concepts better already.

 

Honestly, what ticks me off the most is that the verb selection has made the clans extremely one-dimensional.
The totem changes work somewhat (albeit I liked the old ones better - Gorgon and Spider work better for Furies and Walkers that have gone off the deep end)
The singular (or main?) Renown is again too one-dimensional (and reeks of one-dimensional Auspice renowns coming up, if they even keep that)

And I do not even want to know what they will do to the worldbuilding, considering V5

Ghost Council is Uktena - Silent Striders got Fenrir'd

 

remove get of fenris

*stare at entire backstory of garou going rape murder genocide on humans, other changing breeds, and each other*

They might as well just throw out everything and rewrite all of the theocracy ecofascist werewolves with explicit eugenics involved

the fucking Silver Fangs got to stay despite being way worse if you look at their lore

 

Or the Red "Let's murder all of humanity rather than own up to our mistakes!" Talons, for that matter. I mean for pete's sake, if you're keeping the likes of the Silver Fangs (eugenicist tyrannical assholes with Habsburg-tier inbreeding) or the Talons, why not keep the GoF?

 

Silver Fangs, inbred so much we got all the shit going on with the Romanovs and were ripping people's faces off for trying to modernize Russia

you know, the place where you could just GIVE large numbers of people to others in "Totally not slavery."

Silver Fangs: The war of rage was caused by a brutal and unneeded assault by the other shifting breeds. The culling of their kinfolk was needed in the Impergium'

*Loud genocide sounds*

Silver Fangs: We deny any accusation that one of our members was corrupted, we are the most pure and noble lineage.

also probably in the Hapsburgs since they intermarried with royal families

White Wolf: They learned kingship and hereditary titles from the humans

Me; *stare at IMPERGIUM* Are you fucking shitting me?

I have shared WOD lore with my friends during my vampire campaigns

Guy playing a tremere: I am just going to assume that this faction has been involved in a genocide

Me: Yeah

Tremere: Why is everyone a genocidal lunatic?

much later, they end up meeting a Bubatsi child that survived a Technocracy purging

Tremere: I am genuinely unsure if picking her up and handing her to another group of them would get us killed or not because of how murder happy every group seems to be

Me: You see why none of these factions talk to each other.

 

And nothing of worth was lost...

Werewolf was pretty bad (imo).

Problem isn't what they do, the problem is that they are close to neo-nazi movement in sweden and other nordic countries. Such as the "Nordic Resistances Movement" or it predecessor the "White Aryan Movement". (Even there logo looks a bit like a swastika, now that I think about it.)

 

The thing is that I don't really care when Werewolf is already essentially ecoterrorist race war the setting.

Red Talons want to kill everyone, Silver Fangs is far closer to what I'd think of when it comes to a Neo-Nazi than the Fenris, and the writers are already a group that is completely willing to rewrite vast swaths of a group's lore and mechanics so those two sticking while the Fenris are gone is irritating to me

*looks at clan books with Neo-Nazi and Lost Causism Brujah*

*looks at Brujah behind the Soviet Union which killed off massive numbers of ethnic, religious, and sexual minorities*

*Nosferatu essentially have rape by deception/slut-shaming/mutilatoin out of revenge as one of their main recruitment tactics*

 

The neo nazis (in most of europe) tend to use Nordic Symbols and Mythology in their propaganda (cause it's cool or something, who knows why.) So basically those neo-nazi groups use the same kind of symbolism that the Gets use.

The Group mentioned even has their own paramilitary group and is linked to hundreds of crimes.

Basically the fake terrorist organization you player can be part of is veery similar to real life "terrorists", (just to be clear that's not a political statement. I'm not saying all Neonazis are terrorist, just that there were terrorist that followed the ideology of the NRM and/or WAM). Like using similar symbolism and rhetoric. That's just a PR disaster waiting to happen.

Also not sure how true that is but I have been told by at least two people that the "Gets Fanbase" tends to be very problematic, at least in Europe.

Difference here is that those happened in the past and aren't active right now. (Still think Soviet Union Brujah and Nazi Nephandi are stupid, why not keep them human, show that humans are still the some of the biggest monsters out there).

 

You guys would probably like Werewolf the Forsaken Second Edition. There, Werewolves are chosen by Luna, the Spirit of the Moon, from amongst a pool of Wolf-Blooded (who are like Kinfolk but more badass and can defend themselves from actual Werewolves' shit), meaning that Eugenics just doesn't work.

Oh, this also means that unlike in First Edition and Apocalypse, Werewolves can now have children with each other, which removes even more incentives for Eugenics. Said Children are Wolf-Blooded and can become Werewolves as well or lose their Wolf-Blooded abilities by becoming another 'Major' Supernatural like a Mage or Changeling.

 

I've begun work on another chapter of my Chronicles of Darkness/New World of Darkness 2e fanfic, Mixed Family!

 

Mixed Family has recieved an update dealing with Magical Boys, Mages, Romance and interdimensional shenanigans!

 

Humble Bundle has a nice offer on all the "Choice of Games" titles and the visual novels released (Shadows of NY is pretty good). Also 3 core books all of it for around 10$ and you would even do something good as profits go to charity.

https://www.humblebundle.com/world-darkness-collection

 

Anyone seen the recent Justin Achilli Interview on the Werewolf Reboot (calling it W5 feels kinda off when it's changes so much).

Here are some of the points mentioned in it

• Werewolves now have their own "awakening". As in nobody knows where Werewolves come from anymore and random people just turn out to be "Kin". Which is wild considering how important lineage and breeding had been in previous editions. (Also I don't understand how that will work with the "Silver Fangs" at all)
• "Breeds" got removed
• The Apocalypse is happening right now or had already happened (that wasn't really all that clear).
• Get's have been confirmed as an Antagonist faction that has lost itself in their "rage".
• Werewolves will no longer be able to sense Wyrm taint (same with Weaver and Wyld), so there is no way of knowing if something is a enemy or not. (Also means Vamps vs Wolves is but on "hold" as Wolves no longer can tell that Vamps are Wyrm tainted)
• Other Were-breeds will still exist but it sounds like they will get changed around quiet a bit.
• It sounded a bit like the (Pen)umbra also will get changed, but it wasn't really clear to me. So have to wait and see.

So strange times coming up for the Garou. And I don't understand why they didn't just call the whole thing a reboot to begin with.

Oh yeah there also was a short part about trying to make the werewolf system easier *looks at mage and wraith*. With all that changes they made I feel like I have to ask "For whom are they making this game?" If you want a good werewolf game and don't care about the existing lore go play "forsaken" and if you care about the old lore you also will (most likely) not enjoy the new version. (And that's me, a person who thought the original werewolf sucked, speaking)