How I Saved History (Fate/Grand Order SI)

[Charles Flynn]

What about Cath Palug, I asked in the quoted post

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Fou saving Mash was never something Merlin predicted. Beasts are immune to Clairevoyance. It was instead merely the result of a calculated gamble in canon, a gamble that went horribly wrong here.

 

[gjsponge]

Oh, yes, it was Gil's pride that shot down negations. Totally him.

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Actually, yes? Gil tried to send a team of fighters to shear fucking SHEEP... when Georgios of all people is glaring at your messenger you know you have fucked up.

 

[Darkenning]

Even in canon Babylonia, Gilgamesh's response to Ritsuka offering to help him was basically, "I don't need it, now go jump through hoops to prove that you're worthy of helping me." Flynn is just responding as any rational human being would to being told to go do fetch quests in order to prove yourself worthy of helping the quest giver, by telling Gilgamesh to go fuck himself.

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Wow. What a fucking moron.

I am of course talking about your SI. Apparently, you've never heard of a job interview/

 

[Charles Flynn]

Wow. What a fucking moron.

I am of course talking about your SI. Apparently, you've never heard of a job interview/

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"Job interview" implies a subordinate relationship. Flynn wasn't trying to say "I want to work for you," he was saying, "I and the organization I represent want to work with you." Not a job application, so much as it was an offer of an alliance.

And Gilgamesh's response was to publicly humiliate the man offering support, and then assign them to menial labor while saying it was his way to test their mettle. Because, for all that Gilgamesh's enemies include the very gods themselves, none of them could ever screw him over as much as his own pride.

 

[Darko]

Wow. What a fucking moron.

I am of course talking about your SI. Apparently, you've never heard of a job interview/

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See the difference between a regular job interview and the mission that Chaldea is that the world is dead if Chaldea fails, so Charlie and company don't really have all that much time for mysterious quests given to them by assholes.

Charlie storming off from a guy that was wasting his sides talents in some petty tasks is a logical thing to do when all that wasted time could have been used to actually do something productive.

His only experience with Gilgamesh so far has been with his Archer self, and that version didn't leave the best impression, and it wouldn't be too strange if that version decides to have them do this because he genuinely thinks that's all they're good for.

 

[Darkenning]

"Job interview" implies a subordinate relationship. Flynn wasn't trying to say "I want to work for you," he was saying, "I and the organization I represent want to work with you." Not a job application, so much as it was an offer of an alliance.

And Gilgamesh's response was to publicly humiliate the man offering support, and then assign them to menial labor while saying it was his way to test their mettle. Because, for all that Gilgamesh's enemies include the very gods themselves, none of them could ever screw him over as much as his own pride.

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Gosh, yes, how terrible pride is.

I am of course speaking of your SI. I honestly hope that all of existence perishes in this story, because that would be better than it owing any gratitude to someone as insufferable as you.

 

[UnfortunateWatcher]

To me, this issue is simple. Charles offered Gil a banana. Gil said, no, go get me an apple. So Charles left to join up with the person who wanted the banana.

 

[Darko]

Gosh, yes, how terrible pride is.

I am of course speaking of your SI. I honestly hope that all of existence perishes in this story, because that would be better than it owing any gratitude to someone as insufferable as you.

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You do realize you just condemned all of mankind to death because you dislike one guy?

You realise that it's wrong to do that?

I mean Charlie isn't all that pleasant, but he's not evil incarnate.

And while he's supposed to be a self insert the author could have also decided to add some characteristics that he personally lacks because he thought it would make for a more interesting character.

Unless you know the author personally you can't exactly know for certain if he and his SI are a hundred percent the same.

 

[Potates]

"Job interview" implies a subordinate relationship. Flynn wasn't trying to say "I want to work for you," he was saying, "I and the organization I represent want to work with you." Not a job application, so much as it was an offer of an alliance.

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The first words Flynn says to Gil are "My King". Not "King Gilgamesh""Your highness/majesty/goldyness". Flynn put himself in a subordinate position immediately when trying to butter Gil up.

To me, this issue is simple. Charles offered Gil a banana. Gil said, no, go get me an apple. So Charles left to join up with the person who wanted the banana.

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Then the correct option is to acquire said apple. Or from Gil's prospective, Uruk has a broken leg and needs a split but Flynn wants to apply CPR. So Flynn left to find someone who wanted CPR, leaving Uruk with a broken leg. Flynn wanted to help but only in the way he deemed appropriate which Gil sort of addresses: Who is this guy to know how best to help me, my city, my people and my kingdom? And Flynn's actions proved Gil correct.

Gil gave Flynn a chance and Flynn said 'Fuck you' and burned that bridge. He could have gone to Gil and ask 'What the fuck?', he could have asked Siduri if Gil said anything else, he could have used the opportunity to gather intel of the situation from the people first hand. But no, at the first sign of inconvenience, he left and went right back to his old methods.

On a similar note, Flynn won't shear sheep because Gil won't explain to him why but he'll poison Chaldean staff because Medea did? That does not paint a good picture of the guy's character.

 

[Darkenning]

You do realize you just condemned all of mankind to death because you dislike one guy?

You realise that it's wrong to do that?

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I disagree.

 

[Darko]

I disagree.

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Well you're evil then.

 

[Darkenning]

Well you're evil then.

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I am well aware of this. However, I am at least not the sort of person who would refuse to work for someone because they are (a) a king and (b) a sand <racial slur> as the author no doubt views Gilgamesh.

Isn't it interesting how this is taking place in Iraq.

 

[EVA-Saiyajin]

I am well aware of this. However, I am at least not the sort of person who would refuse to work for someone because they are (a) a king and (b) a sand <racial slur> as the author no doubt views Gilgamesh.

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...I cannot possibly comprehend where you got that impression. Being among has nothing to do with it and he has never indicated racism.

This perspective is so bizarre I begin to wonder if you're merely being a troll.

 

[Darko]

The first words Flynn says to Gil are "My King". Not "King Gilgamesh""Your highness/majesty/goldyness". Flynn put himself in a subordinate position immediately when trying to butter Gil up.


Then the correct option is to acquire said apple. Or from Gil's prospective, Uruk has a broken leg and needs a split but Flynn wants to apply CPR. So Flynn left to find someone who wanted CPR, leaving Uruk with a broken leg. Flynn wanted to help but only in the way he deemed appropriate which Gil sort of addresses: Who is this guy to know how best to help me, my city, my people and my kingdom? And Flynn's actions proved Gil correct.

Gil gave Flynn a chance and Flynn said 'Fuck you' and burned that bridge. He could have gone to Gil and ask 'What the fuck?', he could have asked Siduri if Gil said anything else, he could have used the opportunity to gather intel of the situation from the people first hand. But no, at the first sign of inconvenience, he left and went right back to his old methods.

On a similar note, Flynn won't shear sheep because Gil won't explain to him why but he'll poison Chaldean staff because Medea did? That does not paint a good picture of the guy's character.

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Gil most likely wouldn't have accepted anything less than people calling him 'My King'.

As far as he's concerned he's the king of everybody and if they don't address him like that then they deserve to be killed.

Yeah Caster wouldn't do that, but Archer would, and Charlie has so far dealt with the Archer version the previous times he met Gil.

And that's another thing, the previous meetings with Archer Gil.

Archer Gil is someone that would consider himself to be the only one that matters and can solve all problems by himself, so he'll send other people, even if they're extremely competent, to do useless work that helps no one.

Sheering sheep doesn't stop the monsters attacking the city, it doesn't stop the goddesses.

A bunch of powerful Servants however do stop those things, but not if they're spending time doing farm work.

Charlie has so far dealt with only Archer Gil so he has some bias against Gilgamesh, and when he sent them to do useless work his prejudices against him were just confirmed.

Charlie didn't offer to do CPR so much as he offered to give Gil and Uruk the Super Soldier Serum, and yet Gil didn't take it, despite the very clear benefits, so Charlie decided to go to someone that would take it instead of wasting his time.

As far as Charlie is concerned they don't have time to waste on stupid crap, like what he sees the mission Gil gave them as being, because the world is on the line.

If Gil told them to retrieve some sort of weapon or kill some monster then Flynn may be more cooperative, because those are missions that make sense in proving that you can help defend a city.

Sheering shetp proves you can jyst sheer shetp, that's it.

Medea was also an ally and has proven to be competent.

Charlie also could have changed since his poisoning allies days.

People do change.

 

[Darkenning]

As far as Charlie is concerned they don't have time to waste on stupid crap, like what he sees the mission Gil gave them as being, because the world is on the line.

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The actual protagonist could afford to spend months in Uruk. But our Pure White Savior Draped In The Stars and Stripes is far too good for that, of course.

 

[Darko]

I am well aware of this. However, I am at least not the sort of person who would refuse to work for someone because they are (a) a king and (b) a sand <racial slur> as the author no doubt views Gilgamesh.

Isn't it interesting how this is taking place in Iraq.

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Can you please point out where Flynn was being a racist in this story?

If not then please fuck off.

Yeah he doesn't exactly like kings all that much, but he has worked with them, like several Servants in Chaldea who were Kings or held similar positions.

The author and his character dislike Gil because he's a complete asshole, not because he's Middle Eastern.

People tend to dislike assholes regardless of where they come from.

 

[Darkenning]

People tend to dislike assholes regardless of where they come from.

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And yet you seem to like Charlie just fine. Wonder why.

 

[Darko]

The actual protagonist could afford to spend months in Uruk. But our Pure White Savior Draped In The Stars and Stripes is far too good for that, of course.

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Flynn isn't interested in vacationing.

He's interested in solving the Singularity in a quick and efficient manner.

He also doesn't want to stay in a place where the guy in charge is a serial killer, a rapist, and a massive asshole who may choose to have him killed on a whim,

 

[Darkenning]

Flynn isn't interested in vacationing.

He's interested in solving the Singularity in a quick and efficient manner.

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For efficient read 'callous and brutal'.

 

[Darko]

And yet you seem to like Charlie just fine. Wonder why.

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Because he has some qualities that are worth liking.

And no those qualities aren't that he's a white guy from America.

And in case you've missed it I have criticized Flynn and his actions before.

 

[Darkenning]

And in case you've missed it I have criticized Flynn and his actions before.

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Insufficiently.

 

[Darko]

For efficient read 'callous and brutal'.

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And bowing to the whims of an asshole tyrant is somehow an elegant solution?

Sometimes the least elegant solution is the one that will work best.

You aren't going to be able to fix the toilet by doing some kind of dance, but by putting you hand in the pipes if you need to until you get rid of the blockage.

Insufficiently.

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I tend to make fun of him in most of my posts after every chapter.

The reason I don't do it all the time is because there isn't anything to criticize.

 

[Darkenning]

And bowing to the whims of an asshole tyrant is somehow an elegant solution?

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When they are the person who has been dealing with the situation longer than you have -- and might oh just possibly have some insights into it that you don't -- then, yes. Yes it is.

And as for him being "a serial killer, a rapist and a massive asshole", gosh, no wonder Charlie dislikes him. Mirrors must hurt.

 

[Darko]

When they are the person who has been dealing with the situation longer than you have -- and might oh just possibly have some insights into it that you don't -- then, yes. Yes it is.

And as for him being "a serial killer, a rapist and a massive asshole", gosh, no wonder Charlie dislikes him. Mirrors must hurt.

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And when that person basically tells you to do that useless work with no explanation as to why you need to do it, it isn't.

Ishtar also knows what's going on and is easier to work with.

Charlie tries to avoid killing innocent people.

Gil basically summoned people to his palace to beat them to death.

Flynn is an asshole, but he knows that what he's doing can be wrong and can apologise.

Gil can't see how he could be wrong about anything.

Gil raped women on their wedding nights.

Charlie never raped anyone.

His only experience with rape was when Nero nearly raped him.

He might be seeing the similarities between Nero and Gil now and that's what causing him to dislike Gil even more then he would some random asshole.

Remember that Nero enslaved Charlie, insulted him multiple times and nearly raped him.

These are things Gilgamesh likes to do very much.

 

[Darkenning]

These are things Gilgamesh likes to do very much.

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Wow, you are such a useful idiot.

Liked. The Gilgamesh who appears in the Uruk chapter is the one from the latter parts of the epic, who stopped doing all that. Oh, but I suppose that it's okay for Charlie to judge him based on his preconceived ideas about him. But when I judge Charlie based on mine, I'm committing a horrible crime.

 

[EVA-Saiyajin]

Darko I recommend Just not engaging this person. They're determined to be unreasonable, stubborn, and twist things around. As well as being generally cancerous.

 

[Darkenning]

Darko I recommend Just not engaging this person. They're determined to be unreasonable, stubborn, and twist things around. As well as being generally cancerous.

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Aw, you'll make me blush.

 

[Potates]

Yeah Caster wouldn't do that, but Archer would, and Charlie has so far dealt with the Archer version the previous times he met Gil.

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He also summoned Kid Gil, who Flynn could have asked for tips about dealing with his older self.

And to clear up any confusion, I do get Flynn being pissed off about being sent to shear sheep when he expects to be fighting along with his servants being miffed at it. But the way he's handling it is what bothers me. Do not blow up at Siduri or any messenger. You want to leave the option to come back crawling on your knees admitting you were wrong and still want to help is better than burning the bridge entirely.

 

[EVA-Saiyajin]

And to clear up any confusion, I do get Flynn being pissed off about being sent to shear sheep when he expects to be fighting along with his servants being miffed at it. But the way he's handling it is what bothers me. Do not blow up at Siduri or any messenger. You want to leave the option to come back crawling on your knees admitting you were wrong and still want to help is better than burning the bridge entirely.

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There's the problem with forum fics. The characters inevitably get criticized for not doing everything right. I'm not grousing, it's a fact of things.

Me, I find it unique compared to the avalanche of fics that would have him just doing what Gilgamesh wants.

He also summoned Kid Gil, who Flynn could have asked for tips about dealing with his older self.

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He doesn't like bringing children into battle.

 

[Potates]

He doesn't like bringing children into battle.

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He didn't have to, he could of just asked before he left. 'Hey Gil, in case we run into your older self, any tips to not getting ganked?'

There's the problem with forum fics. The characters inevitably get criticized for not doing everything right. I'm not grousing, it's a fact of things.

Me, I find it unique compared to the avalanche of fics that would have him just doing what Gilgamesh wants.

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I do too, which is why I posted before and might do again. I like this fic and like Flynn that draws an emotional response (hello kettle) that plenty of other fics fail to do. Even if that emotion is to smack him for being a dope. If this or he were one of those 'Follow canon' fics, there'd be two posts between chapters instead of the pages we have here with little discussion and more 'Nice chapter, more plz.' But as he is a flawed character, he has meat I can bite into and criticize him for said flaws, disagree with his actions, and get into discussions with others regarding said actions.