MMO Discussion - Real and fiction (SAO for example)

[Garahs]

Posting this here so as to not keep cluttering up Slayer Anderson's SAO story thread. I figure use this thread to discuss MMOs or post your past experiences.

If the MMOs he played were largely around party leveling, then I can see someone who sucks getting stuck at a certain level. Reputation was rather important at higher levels because the pool of players was smaller, so if people knew you sucked, you wouldn't get many invites, so you wouldn't gain levels or access to good boss fights.

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Ah yes, now this I recall somewhat fondly. Used to have people you just knew by name. Lots of fun conversations about people's ridiculous exploits.

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In the earlier days of Final Fantasy XI I was known as one of the better dragoons of my server as I was leveling up. To get any kind of tangible experience, you needed a party of 5-6. Dragoon is a damage dealing job, which there were a lot of different classes. I managed to impress the party leaders of a few pickup XP parties enough that they'd send me messages asking if I was free to join them.

 

[GiftofLove]

In the earlier days of Final Fantasy XI I was known as one of the better dragoons of my server as I was leveling up. To get any kind of tangible experience, you needed a party of 5-6. Dragoon is a damage dealing job, which there were a lot of different classes. I managed to impress the party leaders of a few pickup XP parties enough that they'd send me messages asking if I was free to join them.

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Back in my WoW days I excelled at finding ways to abuse spells to break into sections of the game that you shouldn't be able to access. I used to spend most of my time on top of mountain ranges, chilling on top of Orgrimmar's Gate, or underneath the world running around.

The underworld noticeably let you fast travel to places, because it was completely flat with zero obstacles.

I spent an entire week with my PvP buddy dive bombing Stormwind from the surrounding mountain ranges for shiggles. We'd fly in, murder a bunch of people, and then fight our way out of the city. (Once we even succeeded!)

I used to have a folder full of cool secret/glitched out areas that I'd been too. Lost it when my old computer's hard drive crashed, though. Made me so sad. It was full of great memories.

 

[Smuthunter]

I tend to play MMOs as single-player games that occasionally intersect with other players during pick-up groups. I've only ever been on one raid despite several years of WoW and one of TOR. I feel like I'm missing out, but none of my IRL friends play those games.

 

[fredthebadger]

I tend to play MMOs as single-player games that occasionally intersect with other players during pick-up groups. I've only ever been on one raid despite several years of WoW and one of TOR. I feel like I'm missing out, but none of my IRL friends play those games.

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When I play MMOs I play like that, with varying degrees of singleplayer depending on the specifics of the game.

Like ARK: survival evolved, where you need a tribe to back you up if so much as one other player decides they want to wreck you, but that's more a problem with the game concept than anything else.

Ironically, despite how horrible the pvp gets in ARK, a deathgame version of it would have 99% of the casualties happen in the first week or so, and practically no deaths due to pvp unless there was no win condition.

Admittedly, the casualty rate might be 99% with how absurdly lethal ARK is for newbies, but if there is a way to win it outright, and everyone knows it, then it will be accomplished eventually and everyone would know.

 

[Chickennoodlesoup]

I tend to play MMOs as single-player games that occasionally intersect with other players during pick-up groups. I've only ever been on one raid despite several years of WoW and one of TOR. I feel like I'm missing out, but none of my IRL friends play those games.

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Same Here. Only really played Runescape though, (and forgot my password and user name years ago).

When I play MMOs I play like that, with varying degrees of singleplayer depending on the specifics of the game.

Like ARK: survival evolved, where you need a tribe to back you up if so much as one other player decides they want to wreck you, but that's more a problem with the game concept than anything else.

Ironically, despite how horrible the pvp gets in ARK, a deathgame version of it would have 99% of the casualties happen in the first week or so, and practically no deaths due to pvp unless there was no win condition.

Admittedly, the casualty rate might be 99% with how absurdly lethal ARK is for newbies, but if there is a way to win it outright, and everyone knows it, then it will be accomplished eventually and everyone would know.

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Question, Does ARK have an Offline/Single Player Mode? It looks Really, Really Fun, and Frankly, Steam Gives me fits when playing online Games. That and I saw the Stuff about PvP being horrible and that kinda makes me not want to play the Game.

It Says Play Locally, but is that a Local Server, or just you playing.

 

[Snow]

I tend to play MMOs as single-player games that occasionally intersect with other players during pick-up groups. I've only ever been on one raid despite several years of WoW and one of TOR. I feel like I'm missing out, but none of my IRL friends play those games.

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That's pretty much how I play too when I can't get real life friends to play with me.

 

[fredthebadger]

Same Here. Only really played Runescape though, (and forgot my password and user name years ago).


Question, Does ARK have an Offline/Single Player Mode? It looks Really, Really Fun, and Frankly, Steam Gives me fits when playing online Games. That and I saw the Stuff about PvP being horrible and that kinda makes me not want to play the Game.

It Says Play Locally, but is that a Local Server, or just you playing.

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There is a single-player, but I dunno the mechanics because I never tried it.

 

[Heaven Canceler]

Only MMO I have played is Skyforge, though over the last month or so, my activity has petered out a good bit. Started with Paladin (Tank) and stuck with that for a good time before playing with this or that class after unlocking it. Still like tanking a good deal, but it is damned hard since you have to Keep track of everything and cannot make any mistakes or you are dead in no time. That game is very unforgiving of mistakes when it comes to tanks.

I have been told that I am rather good as a tank though even if I lack the experience of more Veteran and hardcore players.

 

[Mu-Sensei]

Ok, my first MMO was Aika Online a few years ago, first as a Templar (Tank/Healer, female only class, Aika was divided in t3 male and 3 female classes), then as a Cleric (Healer/Buff, also Female). it was fun that because I tended to write without abbreviations and internet language, people tended to assume I was a girl. I was one of the best healers in my level group, by virtue of making a Healer, not a self-buff holy-type mage.

Then RaiderZ, briefly, because internet requirements were too much for my connection at the time, as a Defender/Mage hybrid, and Scarlet Blade (because Ecchi!) as a Defender (again) and then as a Whipper.

Nowadays, I play Tera when I can (unfortunately I haven't found a way to run it on my notebook yet), leveling a gunner. I'm thinking of trying a Reaper once I unlock it, but not sure of it just yet. I did liked Archer, but since I mostly play solo, I can't seem to complete some dungeons with it.

 

[Plotvitalnpc]

Log Horizon does something I might actually play MMOs if they made me do.
It makes me speculate about deliberately stupid builds that still eke out functionality, if in an entirely different field than any given component of the build was intended for.

Like Wolf Tail (Whatever the wolf race was...), Kannagi (Damage prevention healers...with katanas and chainmail!), and Vampire subclass, with equipment themed around lifesteal, retaliation damage, and inflicting bleed effects. (I assume those things would be available, at least.)

Would it be a 1/4 decent build for a combatant?

 

[Heaven Canceler]

Ok, my first MMO was Aika Online a few years ago, first as a Templar (Tank/Healer, female only class, Aika was divided in t3 male and 3 female classes), then as a Cleric (Healer/Buff, also Female). it was fun that because I tended to write without abbreviations and internet language, people tended to assume I was a girl. I was one of the best healers in my level group, by virtue of making a Healer, not a self-buff holy-type mage.

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When I first started playing Skyforge, I was really surprised to hear that it is apparently a common Problem for MMOs that they have healers and Support charas going full DPS and having no clue how to actually do Support.

Plus, apparently very few People want to Play as a tank even though it feels like it is a much more interesting playstile than DPS for the most part.

 

[wayne82444]

There is actually a decent reason for both of those: power creep. As MMOs get older more and more stuff gets added to them that can be used to make a character stronger. Because of that higher level content gets made stronger and stronger until it gets to the point where for anything except endgame content you can solo it, and endgame content itself requires constant play to actually get strong enough to even qualify to be in a party for it. For anything you can solo why bother with defense or support when attack lets you finish faster, and for that endgame content if you don't dedicate enough time to be able to do it what is the point in trying to make a build that will fit it?

To be honest though this all seems to be a problem mostly around the fact that MMOs on the whole are made to both be extremely grindy to get any benefits, and trying to last for years with there always being something new to do. Either one on it's own would work out ok if not perfect, but together they just make it so it is impossible to really balance the game well.

 

[Jarudazuigu]

So true, several years ago I played WoW for a while and was all hot for Warlock since thematics of the class really talked to me. Yay, evil-bad demon wizard! Heh game even allowed me to mimick my favorite Warcraft's character name with my own!
At first it wasn't very obvious, with dedicated team Quests and some of it designed to be interesting fabularly. And then came yearly updates. Due to people complaining, Warlocks were always "nerfed" or lost some ability they had before mostly because some players can't stand that this class reqiures some tactical thinking to play to it's strenghts. And that smart players prepare before battles that matter.
I quit it after I ended attending university and had to get a job to pay various stuff up. Now what I hear about WoW is a horror story of how games degenerate to applaud the public whinning.
In the first expansion all things were semi-balanced, classes had their strenghts and weaknesses that were playing good or bad against other classes. What really shone trough wasn't Gear or Class but abilities of the Players.
There were silly things and Dungeons and Raids tended to contain tricks that make them easier to pass, most of the time. Sometimes you could luck out and, with great effort and support of your friends, acquire unique gear.

Now? Orange items drop from mobs. You are steamrolled to follow scenarios written by crappy scenario-writers in RP parts of the game ... without the slightest chance to even say something else! Your skills matter not, Gear isn't unique anymore and it makes or unmakes you in the top-tier competitions. Dungeons and Raids? Boring grind-fests. Not all the changes that my friends, who still play WoW unlike me, told me about are bad of course. Some of them are nice.

Though we keep joking that the only reaction of Development Team to Warlocks is "Nerf them again!".

And I liked the "learn to summon demons" Chain Quest so much. Even managed to get rare skill-book from Dire Maul. Though nobody wanted to cast that spell with me, pansies feared that if super-demon spawns on me they'll have to fight it.

I remember our guild's celebration, and lots of banter, when one of our Fighters finally got a drop that lead him towards ... that thunder-sword quest chain. All Fighters in guild were happy for him or her.
"Yes, Fighter AoE efffect for the win!"

 

[GiftofLove]

I agree. They took so much of the good stuff out of WoW. Listening to developers and veterans talk, it was the PVP that really did that game in. Balance means no fun. Because then certain classes/races will have an unfair advantage.

 

[wayne82444]

Depends on what kind of balance you mean. If you mean PvE balance then it is fine- some places will be easier for some classes than others all the time, but a bit of work and it can be more or less fair for everyone. If you mean PvP balance then I agree completely. Some classes will always have natural enemies in others, and those players from those classes will always complain about the others advantages. Worse still at that point you can't have any truly unique abilities on any class, otherwise everyone else will complain. And it only gets worse when those abilities can't really be balanced- as an example most MMOs that have rogue/thief/assassin classes either have them be the best class or the worst hands down. It is entirely because those classes are pretty much always focused around stealth and sneak attacks, and it is impossible to balance an ability that lets you become invisible at will. And because of people being a lot more tricky than the CPU you do have to have a stealth ability make you invisible, otherwise some people will notice them in the shadows because they have their screen brightness set to max or something.

 

[Jarudazuigu]

Meh. I can only speak of my experience with WoW rogues, from the past. They could stun-lock you good, if the Player was decent. Otherwise? They died like rabbits. Rogue playstyle was risky and very andrenaline-filled. One second misscalculation was enough to ruin Rogue's day. Some dudes were really hardcore (like ditching all not Trash gear and weapons).
Our Guild's rogues had silly competition about pickpocketing the fuck out of everyone and everything. Stupidest things got auctioned later for lulz.

My experience with Warlock was that if you kept your wits about you and remembered that stuff is about battle-flow control and not "max DPS" like some more foolish mages did, it was doing great for me. Though I was unable to kite like Ranger. Nothing beats a kiting Ranger. One freak soloed Dire Maul like this! *pouts*
Though sometimes I got distracted with citing spell-words from "Bastard!" anime too much and ended dead for that. Well, nothing that Soul Stone can't fix.

 

[Seru]

I played an MMO that required dedication, and was brutally unforgiving if you were a fuckwad past level 10.

It was called Everquest.

Now they spoonfeed like you are playing World of Warcraft. Alas.

I miss Monks being insane, and watching people kite shit to death.

 

[Alerni]

it was the PVP that really did that game in

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Every fucking time. At this point I'm convinced that games just need to completely separate PVP and PVE changes. Stop removing actually engaging parts of the PVE experience to make everything better for PVP, just give PVPers their own set of skill changes so that it stops ruining everything.

I may have one or two things against PVP. Just maybe. Although I don't mind it too much in Blade & Soul, it's pretty fun in that. Got to love nailing a counter that lets you turn things around.

 

[GiftofLove]

Every fucking time. At this point I'm convinced that games just need to completely separate PVP and PVE changes. Stop removing actually engaging parts of the PVE experience to make everything better for PVP, just give PVPers their own set of skill changes so that it stops ruining everything.

I may have one or two things against PVP. Just maybe. Although I don't mind it too much in Blade & Soul, it's pretty fun in that. Got to love nailing a counter that lets you turn things around.

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Is Blade and Soul out? I've been following it for the English port.

 

[Alerni]

Is Blade and Soul out? I've been following it for the English port.

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Closed beta is going on right now. It's just a bunch of separate beta weekends though. it's nice playing it with a better ping than I had to Japan even if I'm not playing much because closed betas mean wipes at the end.

 

[Skitzyfrenic]

I've been playing MMOs for a fairly long time, I remember when everything (Except Plate) was actually Hunter loot in WoW. I tried to get the fabled Dishonored rank as well. (It didn't exist, was just a rumor)

I like to PvP, I ran with Cut Throat Gaming for... two expansions, almost three (I quit MMORPGs after overloading on FFXIV:ARR, TESO, and Mists) and we pretty much did nothing but PvP. Including HK farms in AV.

So, mostly I do Warframe, which I don't really level in because I've found what I like, and I just got access to a closed Alpha of an upcoming MMO. Which despite the Devs showing everyone everything ever about the game, I'm not allowed to talk about it. *shrug* There is a lot less rep in those games. But reputation can really matter if you actually focus on the community you are in.

Still, I would get invites to 2.2k Arena and RBG pick up groups who wanted to go schluming all the time. Despite never breaking 1.8k rating myself (Stupid teams always falling apart). Rep is actually a big thing as you progress and reach the pinnacle. I knew a World's Best resto Druid in Cataclysm, which got me some sweet, sweet loot a few times, because I had a good rep with one of their guildies, who convinced that Druid (who was also RL) to let me sub in for them (their guildie) before any of their benched players got brought in.

Rep on RP servers... Now -that's- actually pretty big on a server level. Being good at RP? Get invites to all sorts of PvP and PvE events. Being good at PvE or PvP? All the invites. I'd log on to Wyrmrest Accord and get insta-whipsers some days to go run something. All the transmogs.

I just wish motherfuckers would understand motherfucking Objectives in PvP. So tired of TDM. If I wanted TDM I'd go play CoD. Objectives is how our Alliance PvP farming team beat the Horde PvP farming team.

 

[GiftofLove]

So, mostly I do Warframe, which I don't really level in because I've found what I like, and I just got access to a closed Alpha of an upcoming MMO. Which despite the Devs showing everyone everything ever about the game, I'm not allowed to talk about it. *shrug* There is a lot less rep in those games. But reputation can really matter if you actually focus on the community you are in.

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If they're telling stuff about the game, surely you can at least tell us the name?

I'm looking for a new MMO. Have been since I quit WoW. The closest I got to having fun in one was Dragon Nest.

 

[Skitzyfrenic]

If they're telling stuff about the game, surely you can at least tell us the name?

I'm looking for a new MMO. Have been since I quit WoW. The closest I got to having fun in one was Dragon Nest.

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Get you some Warhammer 40k. Third Person Shooter MMO with RPG elements. Only SM and CSM right now, Eldar before Solstice, and Orks sometime after that. I think Angry Joe was allowed to stream it, and he should have a video out on YouTube. Just remember it is in -Alpha,- not Beta and especially not in "Beta."

 

[Kairnoct]

I've played quite a few different MMOs for quite a while, but never really gotten involved in MMO communities until recently. I played solo, with IRL friends, or PUGs mostly. I tried joining multiple guilds, but they all either were full of cliques that were impermeable, required you to sacrifice your life to the game, or were full of elitist jerks.

Recently, though, I started Guild Wars 2 because I heard an interesting guild was starting there. It was a guild that started on /d/ 4chan of all places. At first it was just supposed to basically be a matchmaking fetish ERP guild, but strangely it quickly became much more than just that. It rather quickly became a rather deep and involved community. I'm playing regularly, not just because I've been positively surprised by the game and it's designer's devotion to continually improving, but mostly because for the first time in a game I feel that the community I have joined in it is actually a community.

Anyways, long story short, throwing out there the idea that, with an MMO, the game itself is far less important than who you play it with.

 

[Dakkaface]

So City of Heroes died a few years back, I tried moving to Guild Wars 2, which was interesting for a while but the devs have slowly ground away much of the good things about the game and left it torturous to play, especially if you want to start a new character - terribly sad about that, as Guild Wars 2 was one of the few games I played where I successfully interjected myself and sometimes outright derailed other people's RP plots with some minimal interaction.

Played Secret World for a while and it was fun up until hitting Transylvania and I'm starting to not be able to keep my build up to speed with the enemies, and frankly 'Transylvania full of werewolves and vampires' is kind of on the lame end after 'Lovecraftian horror takes over New England' and 'Ancient horror rises from below the sands of Egypt.' And I'm told the difficulty skyrockets once I get to Tokyo, so I'm not sure I want to keep playing.

Just recently picked up Firefall after seeing it pop up on Steam and remembering 'oh hey, isn't this that open world resource gathering and crafting sci-fi RPG?' It's... interesting, but apparently I got into it after their publisher demanded they change everything to be more WoW-like, and the resulting mess is bug riddled and shitty. I can see the core of an awesome game there, but it's not in a great state currently, and the survival of the game is in question.

So... Anyone got a good suggestion for a fun MMO that isn't a F2P-P2W grindfest or sub based? I seem to have tremendously bad luck with MMO's.

 

[GiftofLove]

So... Anyone got a good suggestion for a fun MMO that isn't a F2P-P2W grindfest or sub based? I seem to have tremendously bad luck with MMO's.

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Blade and Soul is the only one I can think of off the top of my head. I really enjoyed Dragon's Nest too, but that one has a lot of P2W elements in it

I really can't stress how fun B&S is, though. It's so fun I put up with the horrible blag of playing it with less than 3GB of ram and the constant crashes that result. And the gold farmers spamming chat. The only thing that would make it better is hotkeying it to a controller.

Which I might do if I ever get around to upgrading my rig.

 

[Smuthunter]

So since the last time I posted here I got back into WoW and discovered to my very pleasant surprise that pick-up groups can now be formed for raids as well as regular instances, so I'm no longer a raid virgin. Yay!

 

[Dakkaface]

Blade and Soul is the only one I can think of off the top of my head. I really enjoyed Dragon's Nest too, but that one has a lot of P2W elements in it

I really can't stress how fun B&S is, though. It's so fun I put up with the horrible blag of playing it with less than 3GB of ram and the constant crashes that result. And the gold farmers spamming chat. The only thing that would make it better is hotkeying it to a controller.

Which I might do if I ever get around to upgrading my rig.

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Blade and Soul, eh? Lemme just google.... It's an NCsoft game though. I am wary. They canned CoX and I dislike a lot of their actions and other games.

Also, can we talk about shitty pet AI and mechanics? Because I'm consistently astounded when I start a new game, try the pet/deployable class, and invariably find that it's mechanics, AI, and abilities to issue orders are worse than the Mastermind from City of Heroes/Villains. City of Villains was released in 2004. It's been over a decade and pet AI and controls are consistently garbage. What the fuck devs? I've literally never come across a better petmaster class than the Mastermind and hot damn is it one of the things I miss most about CoX.

 

[Garahs]

Blade and Soul is the only one I can think of off the top of my head. I really enjoyed Dragon's Nest too, but that one has a lot of P2W elements in it

I really can't stress how fun B&S is, though. It's so fun I put up with the horrible blag of playing it with less than 3GB of ram and the constant crashes that result. And the gold farmers spamming chat. The only thing that would make it better is hotkeying it to a controller.

Which I might do if I ever get around to upgrading my rig.

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Have you tried Tera?

Blade and Soul, eh? Lemme just google.... It's an NCsoft game though. I am wary. They canned CoX and I dislike a lot of their actions and other games.

Also, can we talk about shitty pet AI and mechanics? Because I'm consistently astounded when I start a new game, try the pet/deployable class, and invariably find that it's mechanics, AI, and abilities to issue orders are worse than the Mastermind from City of Heroes/Villains. City of Villains was released in 2004. It's been over a decade and pet AI and controls are consistently garbage. What the fuck devs? I've literally never come across a better petmaster class than the Mastermind and hot damn is it one of the things I miss most about CoX.

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I only played CoH/V a tiny bit, but I've always though beastmaster and puppetmaster in final fantasy XI were awesome. Puppetmaster has a lot of finesse and even today not all the secrets have been discovered.

 

[Dakkaface]

I only played CoH/V a tiny bit, but I've always though beastmaster and puppetmaster in final fantasy XI were awesome. Puppetmaster has a lot of finesse and even today not all the secrets have been discovered.

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Mastermind let you have 6 persistent minions out at once. Three were weak but plentiful DPS, two were support, and one was your heavy DPS bruiser. Your actual Mastermind had some piddly attacks, but was mostly there to buff the minions. There were some really fancy macro tricks you could do, but with a simple three button macro the class played incredibly smoothly and was very easy to manage. Button one: go aggressive, attack my target. Button two: go defensive, gather on me. Button three: go passive, follow me at all costs.

Button 1 let you focus your minion's fire when you absolutely needed to kill that one guy. Button 2 took advantage of a neat feature of CoX called 'bodyguard mode' - if your minions were in defensive mode and close by, any damage you took would be split between you and the minions, allowing Masterminds to function as tanks. Button 3 let you tell your minions to stop chasing down random enemies and book it to you, or just to ignore all the enemies so you could run to the exit. There were much more complicated macros that let you micromanage orders on your different classes of minion or just order one minion to run over and attack so you could scout or trigger things. But the simple macro set that ordered all minions was all I ever needed.

Add to that the soft benefits of my chosen powerset combo - as a Robotics & Force Field Mastermind, my few personal attacks all had knockback chance. My robot's laser attacks all had knockback chance. My force field attacks had knockback, area knockback, and knockdown for strong enemies. People said Force Field was a boring power choice, because it was just about setting up your bubbles ahead of time, turning on some toggles and then just enjoying the defensive buffs, but hot damn the ancillary entertainment of watching everything ragdoll around after being blasted was more than worth it, and it was awesome CC as well.

I've never found another game that let me run a minion master that was half as entertaining and fun to play as my Mastermind.