Proof of God.

[Galeiam]

Yes yes, eye catching title but hear me out here....

I'm an agnostic by the way, but I just thought of something.

There is one completely undeniable way in existence to prove the existence of the Abrahamic God.

Have every Human alive learn English and have them attempt a thought to be impossible goal, anything will do, like super powers or something.

If we succeed, well then. That Proves the Tower of Babel and God's proclamation before tearing it down.

 

[cross_grave]

I am not sure how that proves anything or how it's undeniable. And what was the proclamation in question?

 

[Galeiam]

I am not sure how that proves anything or how it's undeniable. And what was the proclamation in question?

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God said that If all of the People Spoke with one Language then there was nothing that they could not do.

In response to the Tower of Babel ascending to Heaven.

So he smote the tower and scattered Man across the Earth for their Hubris.

 

[cross_grave]

...Okay, let's assume that we indeed teach every human on Earth and somehow get them to co-operate - and perhaps even succeed in accomplishing an impossible task. How, exactly, is that supposed to prove the existence of God, particularly since the Bible was a book written by humans and thus can't be seen as a completely accurate source of what God might have said? ESPECIALLY in regards to things that he'd be saying to himself, rather than when enlightening a prophet or something like that?

 

[magic9mushroom]

Yes yes, eye catching title but hear me out here....

I'm an agnostic by the way, but I just thought of something.

There is one completely undeniable way in existence to prove the existence of the Abrahamic God.

Have every Human alive learn English and have them attempt a thought to be impossible goal, anything will do, like super powers or something.

If we succeed, well then. That Proves the Tower of Babel and God's proclamation before tearing it down.

Click to shrink...

Nope.

Tower of Babel + Succeed = consistent
Tower of Babel + Fail = inconsistent
No Tower of Babel + Succeed = consistent
No Tower of Babel + Fail = consistent

You could disprove the Tower of Babel if a linguistically-united humanity failed to do something (not that it would do any good, since plenty of things in the Bible have been disproved already and apologists just whine METAPHOR or alternately start ignoring that bit), but succeeding would not prove the Tower of Babel because there's no inconsistency in the Bible being a crock of shit and humanity being awesome anyway.

 

[Galeiam]

Because the Bible is said to have NO Contradictions and that all of it was guided by the Holy Spirit, and not my the minds of men.

So doing something that like this would be a good test for the validity of both of those conditions.

 

[Galeiam]

Nope.

Tower of Babel + Succeed = consistent
Tower of Babel + Fail = inconsistent
No Tower of Babel + Succeed = consistent
No Tower of Babel + Fail = consistent

You could disprove the Tower of Babel if a linguistically-united humanity failed to do something (not that it would do any good, since plenty of things in the Bible have been disproved already and apologists just whine METAPHOR or alternately start ignoring that bit), but succeeding would not prove the Tower of Babel because there's no inconsistency in the Bible being a crock of shit and humanity being awesome anyway.

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To be honest, I think I might be mis-phrasing what my plan for this thought experiment are, and what I'm actually writing down.

I tend to do that A lot.

 

[cross_grave]

Because the Bible is said to have NO Contradictions and that all of it was guided by the Holy Spirit, and not my the minds of men.

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Is said. Is SAID, not PROVEN. In other words, your arguments hangs on the belief that there is a Spirit that guided the writer's hand. Which means that in order for the idea to work, you already have to believe in the existence of God's will, and thus in the existence of God himself by extension. Pretty sure that's a logical fallacy here.

 

[Galeiam]

Is said. Is SAID, not PROVEN. In other words, your arguments hangs on the belief that there is a Spirit that guided the writer's hand. Which means that in order for the idea to work, you already have to believe in the existence of God's will, and thus in the existence God himself by extension. Pretty sure that's a logical fallacy here.

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Oi Oi, remember I'm agnostic here.

AS in not a christian, this is sort of a thought experiment on validating the bible and existence of it's God.

Not a confirmation of my beliefs in order for you to tear down.

I'm not arguing anything, I'm just stating the Information as given by Christian theologians.

I chose this particular instance as it is one of the few feasible means in which to test so.

Since I've never heard of anyone using it as a key point, and I don't particularly want to touch that flat earth bullshit.

 

[cross_grave]

Oi Oi, remember I'm agnostic here.

AS in not a christian, this is sort of a thought experiment on validating the bible and existence of it's God.

Not a confirmation of my beliefs in order for you to tear down.

I'm not arguing anything, I'm just stating the Information as given by Christian theologians.

I chose this particular instance as it is one of the few feasible means in which to test so.

Since I've never heard of anyone using it as a key point, and I don't particularly want to touch that flat earth bullshit.

Click to shrink...

I believe it's not used as a feasible way of proving the existence of God because it isn't. As far as I'm concerned, you can believe in whatever you want to, it's your choice. But the problem remains that from a purely logical standpoint, this idea is not undeniable. Applying basic logic is enough to poke a hole in it, so you won't find rock-solid proof by taking this avenue.

I am an atheist, I will freely admit this much, and my stance may be affecting my approach. But the way I see it, you'll never be able to prove that God exists using logic alone. There are too many variables and unknowns to take into account. Ultimately, in my opinion the answer to the question "Does God exist?" depends on the answers to two other questions:

"Do I want to believe in God?"

"Do I have enough faith in me to believe in Him?"

If the answers are both yes, then you need no further confirmation that He exists.

 

[magic9mushroom]

But the way I see it, you'll never be able to prove that God exists using logic alone.

Click to shrink...

Well, that's not 100% true. If interventionist gods exist, and live up to the "interventionist" part, it's pretty easy to detect them (of course, the level of power you need to qualify as a mythical feat these days is rather higher than it was a few thousand years back, but that's neither here nor there). You only need faith if either they're not interventionist or they aren't actually there.

Personally, I'm an agnostic, but I'm quite friendly to the idea of deism (wildly enough, this is actually an area where theology and science fiction collide; the controller of a simulation in the simulation hypothesis is basically equivalent to a deist or interventionist god depending on whether they interfere). But I can say with some degree of confidence that there aren't any interventionist gods making their presence known on Earth in the modern era, and I can also say with confidence that most religions that make prophecies or have simplistic creation stories have been pretty thoroughly debunked, whether or not their believers have noticed this (protip: 2000 years isn't "soon").

 

[Heaven Canceler]

The only way I can see this working would be if the proving condition is god physically and obviously smiting mankind for trying that.

Edit: Since everyone seems to be throwing out their believes. Roman Catholic here myself.

 

[cross_grave]

Roman Catholic

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For some reason, that combination of words always makes me think of a certain song by Monty Python. If you're familiar with the lyrics, you'll know which one it is.

 

[Azerick]

Because the Bible is said to have NO Contradictions and that all of it was guided by the Holy Spirit, and not my the minds of men.

So doing something that like this would be a good test for the validity of both of those conditions.

Click to shrink...

I'm just going to say that this is not said by every Christian.
One thing to remember when talking about Christians is that they are a very fractured, wide spread group with their own sects and sub beliefs.
And whether the Bible is divinely inspired or a man copying down stories of the acts of the divine is apparently one of the things that varies a little between sects, though I think most go for divinely inspired? Not sure on the last bit.

 

[Galeiam]

I'm just going to say that this is not said by every Christian.
One thing to remember when talking about Christians is that they are a very fractured, wide spread group with their own sects and sub beliefs.
And whether the Bible is divinely inspired or a man copying down stories of the acts of the divine is apparently one of the things that varies a little between sects, though I think most go for divinely inspired? Not sure on the last bit.

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Had totally forgotten about this thread btw...

But mostly, my point is to the supposition that the christians I speak of are the Bible, as Law types.

I myself went to a church where the Pastor acknowledged that man penned the bible and we should be careful in following it to closely.

The only way I can see this working would be if the proving condition is god physically and obviously smiting mankind for trying that.

Edit: Since everyone seems to be throwing out their believes. Roman Catholic here myself.

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In essence the Story of Babel was God smiting Humans for their hubris in trying to reach his domain, so wouldn't Humanity attempting to do such a thing in the modern age enact the same response?

That's pretty much the entire reason I figured that the experiment would be feasible.

Humanity proving that they can outdo God and go against his wishes and banding together once again would be a very provoking action.

 

[Jim Starluck]

God said that If all of the People Spoke with one Language then there was nothing that they could not do.

In response to the Tower of Babel ascending to Heaven.

So he smote the tower and scattered Man across the Earth for their Hubris.

Click to shrink...

Man, what an assholes.