Serious concerns about depictions of Actively Worshiped Religious figures in NSFW situations.

So I don't want to name any names but I recently came across a story that Depicted a Hindu God as a, some sort of mindbroken slut. I duly reported that because I thought he why cause a fuss. I Thought the matter would be soon resolved because it's clearly and insulting depiction and really really offensive to a billion fucking people.

Instead of that happening I got told it's fiction and I QUOTE "how fate is about that".

Seriously, like what the fuck. So if some asshole from Japan put it anime than a billion fucking peoples emotions don't matter. That the a matter that is so serious that people have died for and that continues to cause strife is a fucking joke just cause its fiction.

If we can't have racists and slurs on QQ because it hurts people, and they rightly shouldn't be allowed. Then surely the fact that this sort of depiction hurts people as well should be well within this rule.

I want to know what the official policy of the forum is on this topic.

Spoiler: To avoid hurting anyone's feelings. These are purely examples of things that no rule would allow.

So is it completely fine if I mind control a religious prophet like Jesus and or Mohammed and turned them into cumsluts. Because that's currently perfectly fine by this interpretation of the rules

 

Yes, that would be perfectly fine, because you don't get to demand that other people follow your religious beliefs.

Personally, I find fics where Sakura gets causally murdered offensive. But I don't get to demand that they should be banned. I don't see why you should be allowed to demand a ban of porn involving characters I like just because your particular brand of offence involves an invisible sky fairy that you believe actually exists instead of a character I acknowledge to be fictional.

 

Wow assumptions much. I am infact not a Hindu for your kind information nor do I belive in that faith.

I am pointing this out because it very offensive and hurts people, just like slurs. It is the same situation, certain usages of words hurt people.

 

I don't think using slurs in a fic is actually banned either. Only directly attacking an individual is. But, regardless, no, "I find this offensive" is not, in itself, a reason to ban something, nor is "someone else might find this offensive". Anything can be offensive, and I imagine there are people out there who would argue that any fic involving mind break is inherently offensive and should be banned. I don't see why the views of religious people should be given more weight than, say, the views of anti-porn feminists.

 

It's not that I find it offensive, it is the fact that it's a billion people would find it offensive. The sheer numbers alone would be a cause to give weight to the words beside from the practical problem that people find it offensive will express this constantly and loudly, and be disruptive.

 

Funny, because I've seen absolutely zero evidence of people doing that for all the other fics, artwork etc. involving Kama and Parvati. You get an occasional Hindu nationalist bitching about them existing at all, but those just get ignored.

And, sorry, but "lots of people find this offensive" doesn't give them any more right to enforce their beliefs on others. If they don't like it, that's just tough shit.

 

No, all of their depiction in nasu is a problem. But I am not talking about what a piece of shit that guy is. The fact that you ignore all the people by complaining they are Hindu nationalist means that you want to ignore the problem rather than addressing the issue. And other people don't complain because they aren't Hindu and as such they aren't affected by these things.

I personally despise the brand of nationalism that's plaguing india right now but doesn't mean you can dismiss fair arguments from them.

And you think that it isn't problem for now, but there are an increasing number of internet users in india and slowly their proportion on QQ will increase their disruptions will increase to the point that it couldn't be ignored. Religious fanatics are hardly known for their ability to let go.

So lot of people are offended by this is a perfectly valid reason to ban something because those people can become part of this and will make the forum experience worse.

Anyway I am waiting from someone from staff to respond to know what the exact policy is. I haven't demanded banning anything you actually pay attention what I wrote before.

 

No, I'm ignoring it because they're your religious beliefs, not mine. I don't particularly like people treating me like I deserve eternal torture for the heinous crime of thinking for myself, but I don't get to tell them not to do it. I don't see why I should show their beliefs the kind of respect they invariably do not show towards mine.

No, but I can ignore bullshit arguments from them quite happily.

No, but they can be banned if they cause trouble. And Kama and Parvati porn is common enough that those people are going to have plenty of other places to go after, I don't think QQ is gonna have issues in that regard.

Yes, and banning it makes the forum experience worse. People won't just go "oh, OK, never mind", they will complain just as much at having other people's religious beliefs forced on them.

Given that you already got a response to the report, I'm pretty sure you already know the answer to this. It's not getting banned. If it was, a significant proportion of users would probably quit in disgust.

 

They are not infact my religious views and I have no problem with you. You are clearly projecting your prior bad experience onto me and I don't think i deserve that. Also Hinduism doesn't have anything against you I would think, the nationalist probably will but not the religion itself.

I don't know there arguments so I don't know how bullshit they are but if it's about the depiction of Hindu gods by nasu then they have at least one point where they may be correct.

People don't complain about politics being banned And it's the same thing.

I mean if that's what they want then, sure, I can avoid topics that annoy me. But they will probably regret that in a few years. It's the same reason they most likely banned modern politics, because it will be a bad time for everyone involved.

 

I don't care if they're your religious views or not, my point still stands. You're trying to force me to follow other people's religious beliefs. And Hindu nationalists in general are certainly not respectful to people of other religions, or to atheists, yet I rarely see people calling for preachers saying I deserve to burn in hell to be banned.

No, they don't. Nasu is not a Hindu

No, it's not the same thing, because QQ is not a politics forum, whereas it is a forum for writing porn. Banning such things from here would be like banning discussion of a certain, popular form of politics from a politics server. People won't like it.

If they did ban it, then I'm pretty sure they'll regret it right now, because a bunch of people would leave, or at least complain bitterly.

 

I mean I can call for preachers to banned if that's a big deal for you. Where do you want me to do It.as for your first point.

He is using Hindu mythology and legends. People and cultures have ownership over their symbols, if he is appropriateing their symbols and preventing them he is infact in the wrong, it would if a white man dressed up as a native american tribal shaman and started doing fucking caricatures. It is offensive and cultural appropriation. Is that fine.

Or in more physical turn, if a person broke into your home and jazzed all over your personal memrobila like photos and such, would that be fine.

It's also not a religious forum. Writing porn isn't an excuse to actively ridicule religions.

That's their descision, since again, I haven't asked them to ban anything, if you would look at the thread header and my post you would realise that. I am asking for clarification on the official stance I got from my report.

 

Your either a very odd person with too much free time to defend a religion you don't even follow, or your the kinda person who passes the time fishing for a discussion that ends with someone calling the mods in to stop. With a hammer.
...
Pleeeease tell me you are just a passionate person.

 

No, I am type of person who would rather do this because I think it's a fair topic to be discussed openly rather than do my actual work for my classes that is due in like 12 hours. I do this because I think it's worth it.

And there has been nothing offensive or bannable in any of the discussion here, it's been pretty civil.

 

OH thank the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Okay. Il think up a good argument to discuss this with you in a second.

 

I actually do have to leave to do my work but I can respond tomorrow.

 

Okay. Removing the assumption you might be making mountains out of molehills, your issue is easily resolved by a quote I read, and will probably mangle abit: "if everything was done in a matter on which nobody would be offended, then nothing would be done".

Your getting huffy about, and reported erroneously on, something that has been done since before we were born: writing someone in high standing getting "Wrecked".

As a more innocent example: in a certain author's work, we have God, whom picked a soul from another reality and inserted it unto a blank Archangel, having a discussion on the nature of Omnipotence and the nature of God... Also he has big tits. That right there, should be enough to have a goddamn flame war, but instead sprouted a interesting discussion on the nature of Omnipotence and God paralleling the fic.

The end thing is, Intent. I'm pretty damn sure the Author's intent was writing a smut about the Smug prickly Kama, a character in FGO inspired by Hindu Myths, getting railed. Hard.

If you'd like, I could link you to the famous Cambrian and DarkWolfShiro's works, and see for yourself. One writes smut of the filthiest order and is paid to do it. The other writes the scummiest of main characters, And gets praises for it, as examples on the fact that the act of "mindbreaking" someone, and other more extreme acts short of Gore, something that are objectively bad, are allowed here.

Religion is a very subjective matter, after all.

Can you please tell me why you don't roam the site and report those as well?

(how are my arguments? I'm not very well versed in debating you see, and I'd like to know how to improve)

 

Ok I am actively working so the reply will be short.

It have read cambrian fic, I enjoy there work myself. I don't particularly hold it against the person, nor do I have the right to hold it against someone when I don't know ow there circumstances they are getting payed, you got to to do what you got to do. I don't go around reporting people because I usually don't encounter it in my trawls, this is in fact the first such fic I have encountered because I despise fate porn and its mostly the culprit here.

I don't try to deprive people of their lively hood.

After a bit of introspection I think I located what my problem is here is. It wasn’t the fact that my report was rejected, it wasn't because the preversion of a symbol made me uneasy, even tho it did.

It was the reason for the report being dismissed thag bothered me. Calling it fiction as if it doesn't have impact on the real world, as if a billion people are idiots for respecting the ideals that their gods represented. That it wasn't hypocritical that politics is banned and religious topics aren't despite being intertwined. That it wasn't a problem because it was how fate do.

The implication that a bunch of nerds 2d wiafus is more valid than a culture thay has existed on this earth for 5 thousand years and shaped ethics, mathematics and humanity itself in profound ways.

So sure If the intent is for the characters getting railed, go ahead, it's not like I can stop you either way, if not here than somewhere else.

But the implications that because something is fictional it doesn't have any value or impact on the world and that you can do whatever you want with it fuck other people's beliefs and feelings.

Also the thing about nasu's cultural appropriation also makes me apocalyptic angry but I have learned to live with till I figure out someway to sue basterd for all his money.

God dammit this was supposed to be a short reply.

 

Politics is banned because politics caused a bunch of arguments and isn't really fundamental to anything this site does.

And the point of saying "it's fiction" is that it's not an attack on a real person, thus it doesn't fall foul of rule 1.

When you're on a board about said "nerd's 2D waifus", yes, it is more important.

 

Religion will cause just as many arguments and it isn't fundamental to what the site does as well.

I didn't report it for rule 1 since none of the people in the story exist.

Unless the site recently changed its focus to be a anime focused forum, it's not. You can discuss anything here. If it was going to be focused on any media property it would by far be Harry Potter by volume alone.

 

Sure, but this isn't a fic about religion, it's a fic about a fictional character who happens to be based on a character from someone's religion.

Then what did you report it for?

Sure, but it's sure as hell not a forum for upholding the beliefs of religious people.

 

Thats all religion. It's all deritive material from oral histories. It's still a representation of the same ideal.

I was thinking it was very political, since religion and politics and basically the same thing.

The forum isn't also a set up to damage other people's beliefs. It's a topic agnostic forum, if the mods come out and say that it isn't so then I will concede but unless that happens trying to convince me that this forum has a particular purpose is futile. And I am not saying that the forum should be supporting people's beliefs, far from it. I come here for the porn.

But it doesn’t mean that basic rules that protect groups of people from slurs and the no politics rule alone would be solid ground to prevent such potrayals. Because belive it or not, the people that genuinely do feel it is very real and if any of them read it would be very unpleasant for them.

But seriously I have to do my work.

 

Dude. Dude. Duuuuuude. There was a goddamn revolution to SEPARATE church from state.
It's illegal even. Sure it doesn't stop certain kinds of ppl in the world, but nominally it's separate.

This is turning into arguing with a brick wall. That keeps saying it really needs to go.

Wait I'm assuming things. Don't tell me if you don't want to, but respond on this if you could: do you live in a country where the Church and the state are one?

 

Based on previous comments and the general context of this dispute, I think he's from India. I don't think India has an official religion, but I don't think it has anything as stringent as the US First Amendment (most countries don't, honestly).

 

Mmm. I thought so as well, but you know what they say about assumming.

Still, I think the weird bloke wanted less to discuss and more vent about this considering...

Which is fair, but I was expecting abit more than that when I suddently get this announcement thread in my alert box. I think I'm becoming more and more posh and expecting the more I exist in this site. Imagine that Kek.

 

Yeah, this seems like a rant, mostly. They asked for clarification on the rules surrounding this, but I'm pretty sure the rule is "there isn't a rule", so....

 

Are you seriously arguing that America government is separate from church. Because that's a laughable sentiment. I won't argue it here because this is definitely against the rules but you can PM me for it.

I am not ranting, I have been calm addressing each of the points raised by you and I haven't been going on and on about how how I dislike something. The most rant like thing I have done is reiterate my points by explaining my reasoning because that's what you do in a debate.
I haven't personally attacked anyone, I have taken great pains not to rant.

If you think you have a valid point regarding this topic will be happy to discuss this further.

And I keep saying I have to leave because its 5 am here and I want to go to sleep. I have an assignment due at 12 and I am arguing with people over the internet, it's not a good habit.

 

In a legal sense, yes, it certainly is. Whether religion influences politics in the US is another matter, though....

What we meant by that is that you're basically just complaining about the rules not being what you want them to be and the manner in which you were informed about it. You did ask for a clarification, but I'm not sure what there really is to clarify. There is no rule on this particular issue.

 

Thats a fair criticism. Hmm I have been complaining a bit.

I still maintain that religion is inherently political since a vast majority of humans is religious and it influences a lot of world politics. But I guess if there is no rule specifically I doubt the powers that be are going to change I for me.

 

Everything is inherently political if you look at it broadly enough. But, yes, you could make a case that discussions of religion should fall under rule 8.

However, it's another matter entirely to forbid people from using characters that exist in-universe just because those characters could potentially lead to such discussions. There are a lot of servants in FGO whose nature lends itself to political discussions (Columbus, for instance), but that doesn't mean that using them is ruled-out. Rule 8 is pretty flexible when it comes to actual stories, the only things that are generally ruled out are stories that have a direct and explicit political theme with a direct relevance to modern politics. And Kama getting mind-broken certainly does not fit that, however much it might offend some people.

 

These are the rules of Questionable Questing, as laid down by the Administrator, tehelgee.

Rules

1: Play nice with the other members on the forums.

• Keep the personal insults and such to a minimum.
• Constructive criticism is not only allowed, but encouraged.
• Kink-shaming is a violation of this rule. Stating a preference is fine, stating a dislike for a kink is fine, but making judgements against those that like a kink is NOT fine.
• Swearing and profanity are allowed, but again, common sense applies, do not be overly abusive.
• This rule is somewhat relaxed in the rants section, but make sure that anything said in there, STAYS in there.

2: Keep NSFW material in the NSFW section.

• See the bottom of this page for a clarification as to what exactly is and is not allowed. Unless the content is posted in a clearly malicious manner, violation of this rule will result in nothing but the content being moved to the NSFW section. (This means quests can start out in the Normal section, and be moved to the NSFW section if votes lead them in that direction.)
• Signatures and Avatars are to be kept work safe.
• Any links in the SFW section to NSFW content must be clearly marked as NSFW.
• Any embedded images or videos in the SFW section must not be NSFW as detailed below.
• Text in the SFW section must not be NSFW as detailed below.

3: Do not post illegal content.

• Posting blatantly illegal content will result in immediate banning and deletion of the content. (Illegal is classified as content Illegal to own or view in the United States, especially the unambiguous example of RL child porn)
• Due to the varied state laws on the subject, RL bestiality falls under illegal content. Text is still permitted.
• Do not link to pirated content.
  • Linking to manga reader sites and image hosting sites like Danbooru, imgur, etc does not count.
  • Manga readers that give a download option, such as ExHentai, may be mentioned along with the title of a work, but not linked to.
  • Linking download repositories like Dropbox, MegaSync, etc DOES count as linking to pirated content.
• Doxxing, the posting of personal information about a user without their consent, is grounds for immediate permaban.
• Plagiarism is a major ethical violation and will receive a heavy infraction when it doesn't just result in a permaban.

4: No duplicate accounts.

• Sock-puppeting, or account duping of any kind is grounds for a permaban.
• This includes creating new accounts for the purpose of abandoning an old one.
• Multiple accounts for the purpose of disassociating NSFW works from a username known across multiple sites is also not permitted.

5: Try to stay relatively on-topic.

• We realize off-topic tangents are part of any creative board, and so they are tolerated here for the most part. Please be mindful, however, if the topic creator or a mod asks you to get back on topic.

6: Accounts are not deleted.

• We have decided not to honor account deletion requests for two reasons. One, it's not healthy for the database to have accounts disappearing from it. Two, we just don't want to set that precedent.
• If you absolutely must remove yourself from the forum, a year long tempban can be requested. It will not be lifted until it expires naturally, however. Be sure of your request.

7: Thread Necromancy is (very) conditionally permitted.

• Threads that have been dormant for 1 month are considered dead threads. IF you make a post to a dead thread, it must be a significant contribution; story update, new information on current events, new activity for games elsewhere, etc. Asking if a story or quest is dead or will be continued does not count as contributing.

8: Current politics is a banned subject here.

• This rule applies to real life current politics. At the time of this rule is written, this means things like Trump, feminism vs men's rights, SJWs, etc.
• It does NOT apply to things such as stories featuring past events like WW2, Vietnam, nobility, royalty, etc. If it's something that happened 20+ years ago, it's most likely fair game.
• Probably more than any other rule, the practice of asking if you're unsure is very wise. You won't get punished for asking.

9: No words are outright forbidden, nor will there be a list of banned words, however context matters.

• Using slurs to refer to individual RL people is a Rule 1 violation, whether they are a QQ poster or not.
• Using them to refer to RL groups of people is also forbidden on the grounds that at least one of our users will be a part of just about any group, making it a Rule 1 violation.
• Using them in stories, quests, and games are allowed.
• Using them in any other context not already covered is allowed, but QQ staff will not be responsible for the social repercussions from other posters. If you show yourself to be a crude and unpleasant person, we're not going to make people be your friend.
• What is and is not a slur will be decided by QQ staff, not the posters. If you feel something should be a slur and we do not: tough.

=========================================================

NSFW materials

• Images or videos containing Nipples and/or Aureola, genitals (Penis, vagina, other), Sexual intercourse.
• Images or videos containing graphic violence and gore.
• Written Fiction that contains graphic descriptions of Gore or sex. (Saying 'They fucked like rabbits' and using suggestive imagery is okay to post in the SFW sections, spelling out all mechanical details goes in the NSFW section.)
• Gore that depicts real life naked children or infants is NOT permitted, as it falls too close to the line of child porn to be safe. Gore that depicts real life naked adults IS permitted.

The following is Questionable material. You won't suffer punishment for posting it outside the NSFW section, but it might be polite to give warning.

• Images or videos that contain partially clothed women or fondling.
• Images containing a degree of violence, so long as it is not gratuitous or overly graphic.
• Written scenes that heavily imply any kind of sexual conduct (even if the sexual conduct itself would be illegal), so long as it remains at implication, and does not cross over into explicit explanation/description.

These rules may be modified as needed.

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As you can clearly see, protecting religions is not within QQ rules. If a thread or author bothers you so much, utilize the Ignore function so you no longer have to see their works or words.