• The site has now migrated to Xenforo 2. If you see any issues with the forum operation, please post them in the feedback thread.
  • Due to issues with external spam filters, QQ is currently unable to send any mail to Microsoft E-mail addresses. This includes any account at live.com, hotmail.com or msn.com. Signing up to the forum with one of these addresses will result in your verification E-mail never arriving. For best results, please use a different E-mail provider for your QQ address.
  • For prospective new members, a word of warning: don't use common names like Dennis, Simon, or Kenny if you decide to create an account. Spammers have used them all before you and gotten those names flagged in the anti-spam databases. Your account registration will be rejected because of it.
  • Since it has happened MULTIPLE times now, I want to be very clear about this. You do not get to abandon an account and create a new one. You do not get to pass an account to someone else and create a new one. If you do so anyway, you will be banned for creating sockpuppets.
  • Due to the actions of particularly persistent spammers and trolls, we will be banning disposable email addresses from today onward.
  • The rules regarding NSFW links have been updated. See here for details.

The Once and Future Champion (Baldur's Gate 3/Dragon Age)

Reader mode
Zanfib said:
I want to grab him and shake him. What if they can kill three, Gortash? What if they can kill Three!?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
To be fair to Gortash he only knows that the party probably wants to kill him (well, except for Karlach who he's 99.9+% sure wants to kill him, but he's not afraid of her by herself), and could very well be amenable to being bought off. Which is still a distinct improvement over the part where he knows that Orin definitely wants to kill him, very very slowly and in ways that would make the Joker vomit, and that she's an insane fanatic that can't be bribed or intimidated by anything he possesses.
 
Zanfib said:
I like how he's going "After all, they'd already killed one of our triumvirate. So perhaps they could kill two."

I want to grab him and shake him. What if they can kill three, Gortash? What if they can kill Three!?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Also he does have his steel watchers, and they are pretty tough customers. Just... with a very clear weakness he's not thinking about.
 
Gortash has the same flaw that every man has who considers himself a logical and reasonable-minded fellow: the unalterable belief that he can persuade others of his correctness through reason and logic alone. Gortash has a number of quite logical reasons that the party should ally with him, and he even proves a true ally should they do so. Contrary to expectations, Gortash does not betray the party if they prove themselves to be competent and reliable rather than just lucky and powerful. He is not so wedded to the plot that he values it above himself, and he expects others to act in what he considers a rational fashion.
 
Kylia Quilor said:
Plus, if you believe the Netherbrain (I don't), this whole scheme was arranged from the start by it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I believe it.

There's a secret encounter in Moonrise Towers where the Netherbrain straight-up tells you that it wants you to be a rogue element, so that you can break the hold the Chosen have over it.

There's also a readable in-game where Gortash writes down in one of his journals that he originally got the idea that the githyanki were a threat to his plans from a dream he'd had. The brain had subliminally prodded him to go looking for the Astral Prism in the first place.
 
cliffc999 said:
I believe it.

There's a secret encounter in Moonrise Towers where the Netherbrain straight-up tells you that it wants you to be a rogue element, so that you can break the hold the Chosen have over it.

There's also a readable in-game where Gortash writes down in one of his journals that he originally got the idea that the githyanki were a threat to his plans from a dream he'd had. The brain had subliminally prodded him to go looking for the Astral Prism in the first place.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yes, but if I believe it, then I have to believe the Netherbrain was both somehow brilliant enough to come up with this overly complicated plan (right down to being behind the idea to use the Crown of Karsus at all), and stupid enough to be beaten the way that it was, and I can't reconcile those two datapoints.

In general, I'm allergic to 'literally everything you've done up until the endgame was my plan wait how are you beating me at the last minute' as a plot point. So I may just be biased.
 
Last edited:
Kylia Quilor said:
Yes, but if I believe it, then I have to believe the Netherbrain was both somehow brilliant enough to come up with this overly complicated plan (right down to being behind the idea to use the Crown of Karsus at all), and stupid enough to be beaten the way that it was, and I can't reconcile those two datapoints.

In general, I'm allergic to 'literally everything you've done up until the endgame was my plan wait how are you beating me at the last minute' as a plot point. So I may just be biased.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Very high Intelligence, elder brains are legitimately some of the most intelligent creatures in the entirety of D&D, being smarter than many gods. The issue is they are also incredibly arrogant, and the crown would amplify that, significantly. The end result of that is what happens to the Elder Brain in game. Plus, the illithids technically reset the timeline every time it's about to come to an end so they can try again. That's the Grand Design they are working towards. So...

(I watch a lot of deep lore dives on D&D, illithids are a popular topic)
 
Kylia Quilor said:
Yes, but if I believe it, then I have to believe the Netherbrain was both somehow brilliant enough to come up with this overly complicated plan (right down to being behind the idea to use the Crown of Karsus at all), and stupid enough to be beaten the way that it was
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Oh no, it wasn't behind the idea to use the Crown of Karsus. That was entirely Gortash's and the Dark Urge's idea. The Netherbrain wasn't even conscious then.

That readable I had my peeps find in chapter 26, in the illithid colony? That's from the game. The elder brain that became the Netherbrain was in torpor underneath Moonrise, having entered a suspension state to avoid dying of starvation several centuries ago when the colony failed for lack of food supply. The Chosen of the Dead Three came along later, dug it up, slapped the crown on its head, and enslaved it. That was all them.

Then the elder brain dropped its suggestion about the Astral Prism into Gortash's subconscious, as its gambit to get free. It was under mind control but it apparently interpreted its orders just enough to go 'I'm allowed to warn my controllers of potential danger'. And so it did... in just the right manner to get them to go dig up the one thing that could fuck up their plans enough to let it break loose, and which would never have come into play if they hadn't gone and dug it up. :p

Kylia Quilor said:
In general, I'm allergic to 'literally everything you've done up until the endgame was my plan wait how are you beating me at the last minute' as a plot point.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm not opposed to it in this particular case because elder brains are supposed to be nigh-godlike super-intellects, so the fact that it actually gets to do something like that even once is one more time than most videogames manage to write in. And it lost at the end on, being fair, a miracle.

Besides, it's actually harder to write a story where you have master planners take imperfect gambles because the situation doesn't allow for a perfect way out than it is to write a story where the master planner has perfect setup conditions every time. Sure, the Netherbrain's plan had potential exploits. But it still damn sure beat just sitting still and letting Gortash and chums drive it around like a trolley car. Likewise, Gortash scheming to ally with the MC against Orin is still a gamble, but it damn sure beats sitting around and waiting for Orin's psychotic break to finally finish breaking his face.
 
Last edited:
cliffc999 said:
Oh no, it wasn't behind the idea to use the Crown of Karsus. That was entirely Gortash's and the Dark Urge's idea. The Netherbrain wasn't even conscious then.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yes, but it says it was behind even that. That's the issue.

EDIT: Found a video of the scene with the relevant dialogue

- YouTube

Profitez des vidéos et de la musique que vous aimez, mettez en ligne des contenus originaux, et partagez-les avec vos amis, vos proches et le monde entier.
youtu.be youtu.be

It says it was after the crown the whole time.
 
Last edited:
Kylia Quilor said:
It says it was after the crown the whole time.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That does indeed have to be puree of bullshit, yes. There's no fucking way that thing was manipulating Bane, Myrkul, and Bhaal, and those were ultimately the people who approved the plan to use the Crown.

Of course, my takeaway on viewing this scene is that right then the Netherbrain really wanted you to fail that willpower check, and the bad guys are allowed to lie. :p
 
Last edited:
Kylia Quilor said:
I agree it's lying, which is what I started with in the first place.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Ah, no, what I meant was that it was lying about setting up the part with the Crown. The rest of its statement, re: the Astral Prism, is the truth.

Of course the very best lies mix truth, lie, and half-truth, to the point it's almost impossible to distinguish them. Case in point, Raphael. :p
 
Counterpoint: The Dead Three are extremely stupid, uncreative, and predictable. They are losers at heart. Their cleverness would be no obstacle at all to an elder brain.

Getting access to an avenue to manipulate them would be a challenge though.
 
BigBad said:
Counterpoint: The Dead Three are extremely stupid, uncreative, and predictable. They are losers at heart. Their cleverness would be no obstacle at all to an elder brain.

Getting access to an avenue to manipulate them would be a challenge though.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Let us recall that the only reason those Aqua-tier divine dunderheads became as much of a problem as they did is that Jergal grew tired of managing his domain, so he threw it their way and told them "Figure this shit out amongst yourselves, kiddos, papa's going on vacation until Ao damn well needs him."
 
Last edited:
Random amusing realization, for both this fic and BG3 in general. It's possible the only reason Mizora was captured by the Mind Flayers at all was because she came up to the mortal realm to torture Wyll about not killing Karlach, a mission she only gave him in the first place because of her own petty cruelty. She really screwed herself over there.
 
Matrix Dragon said:
Random amusing realization, for both this fic and BG3 in general. It's possible the only reason Mizora was captured by the Mind Flayers at all was because she came up to the mortal realm to torture Wyll about not killing Karlach, a mission she only gave him in the first place because of her own petty cruelty. She really screwed herself over there.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If you ask Mizora when you meet her at Wyrm's Rock how she got stuck in the pod, she'll say that she bamfed into the Shadow-Cursed Lands because Zariel had ordered her to scout out this 'Absolute' problem thingy... and she almost immediately got dropped by the Shadow Curse, because she very much had not realized how hard that stuff can hit if you walk into the wrong place. And when she woke up, she was already in a pod - apparently the Absolute's forces had happened across her while she was incapacitated.
 
cliffc999 said:
If you ask Mizora when you meet her at Wyrm's Rock how she got stuck in the pod, she'll say that she bamfed into the Shadow-Cursed Lands because Zariel had ordered her to scout out this 'Absolute' problem thingy... and she almost immediately got dropped by the Shadow Curse, because she very much had not realized how hard that stuff can hit if you walk into the wrong place. And when she woke up, she was already in a pod - apparently the Absolute's forces had happened across her while she was incapacitated.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yes, she says that, but I have doubts about how truthful she's being.
 
Damn this story is so good. Binged the entire thing in just a day.
I'm so happy to find a well written BG3 story where Shadowheart is the romantic interest. They are so very rare.

Can't wait to see how you decide to muddy up the third act! Maybe a glimpse at the upper city instead of just the lower?? I can only hope!
 
Mizu said:
What's the more common romance target, Karlach? Gale? I'm doubtful about Lae'zel but I suppose it's possible.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Astarion. God that guy is all over the fandom. Even inside other characters tags, Astarion/Tav outnumbers other ships.

Among the women i'd suspect Shadowheart is the most popular tho.
 
Mizu said:
What's the more common romance target, Karlach? Gale? I'm doubtful about Lae'zel but I suppose it's possible.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Kylia Quilor said:
Astarion. God that guy is all over the fandom. Even inside other characters tags, Astarion/Tav outnumbers other ships.

Among the women i'd suspect Shadowheart is the most popular tho.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Larian reported on their Twitter last month that a whopping 51.3% of all players who'd finished the game had completed the Shadowheart Route, with Karlach and Lae'zel taking the #2 and #3 spots respectively.

I'm not sure if they really mean players or if they mean playthroughs, but...yeah.
 
Reader mode
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

  • ... and 1 more.
    • Total: 8 (members: 2, guests: 6)
    Back
    Top