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The Worst Thing about Exalted 2/2.5

gibbousmoons

gibbousmoons

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Following the introduction of Exalted 3: Charm Bloat and Lies (False Promises Edition), I've started to think of ways to improve Exalted 2e as a system. To help with that, I'd like everybody with a gripe about Exalted to complain in this thread.

I'll start. Dexterity is a god-stat. I hate god-stats.
 
gibbousmoons said:
Following the introduction of Exalted 3: Charm Bloat and Lies (False Promises Edition), I've started to think of ways to improve Exalted 2e as a system. To help with that, I'd like everybody with a gripe about Exalted to complain in this thread.

I'll start. Dexterity is a god-stat. I hate god-stats.
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I'll follow you up on the god-stat hate.
Appearance as the social god-stat.
 
Essence is a god stat.

They need to make it more even by removing the ability/attribute/virtue/grace minimums and stick with essence as minimums.

And change the mote calculation to not key off essence stat but off.... say willpower.
 
Or just admit that Essence = Level, and you don't get to raise your level like you would raise any other stat.

The whole party levels up at once, when the story dictates, or after a certain amount of XP.
 
Garahs said:
I know virtually nothing about exalted, but just from this thread... If there is more than one god-stat, then chances are none of them are...
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Dexterity is the god stat for combat, appearance for mind-fucking people, and essence for supernatural abilities. Literally nothing else matters beyond getting the bare minimums for perquisites.
 
Garahs said:
I know virtually nothing about exalted, but just from this thread... If there is more than one god-stat, then chances are none of them are...
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See, thing is, appearance and dexterity don't really compete for your points on account of being in different attribute categories, and thus being bought out of different attribute dot pools.
You can start out with both as high as they can reach in reasonable play, and it won't even impact your ability to start out with above-average essence in 2(.5)e.
 
Lethality, probably.

The necessity of maxing certain stats at chargen (wp, two virtues). The lacklusterness of Temperance in comparison to the other virtues. Yozis are charms.

Abyssals become Solars or suck. Infernals suck in 2.5. Excellencies and how they're boring but necessary, as are some charms (more pool expander a hooray).

Solar wank in general. Alchemicals can't fix their overarching problem without sucking solar cock, yippee.
 
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It's not just Alchemicals sucking solar cock... it's EVERYONE sucking solar cock. :>

Lethality can be fixed... just provide more health levels. Say every current level gets multiplied by 5.
 
Biigoh said:
It's not just Alchemicals sucking solar cock... it's EVERYONE sucking solar cock. :>
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Yeah, it's sad. Every splat book seems to include perks and buffs for Solars.

I have no problem with the Solars being the designated guys-in-charge, but putting them there by making them better than everyone else in everything was the wrong decision. It punishes fun, creative mixed groups.

Biigoh said:
Lethality can be fixed... just provide more health levels. Say every current level gets multiplied by 5.
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So basically, the problem is that they're using D&D damage values in a Storyteller system.
 
evildice said:
Yeah, it's sad. Every splat book seems to include perks and buffs for Solars.

I have no problem with the Solars being the designated guys-in-charge, but putting them there by making them better than everyone else in everything was the wrong decision. It punishes fun, creative mixed groups.

So basically, the problem is that they're using D&D damage values in a Storyteller system.
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Yeah... erm...damage... isn't quite like that... it's just that the way ST system was designed to originlly be harsh with combat... you get hit you suffer... and in exalted, damage comes hard and fast.

And yeah... solars had it good.
 
The tick system. Fuck the tick system with a rusty barge pole.
The time it takes to make a character.
One charm a turn limit, and combos.
Central elements of the setting being buried in obscure side rulebooks, like the calender or the 25 hour day.
Copy/paste sorcery and charms.
The layout, and how important info is buried without being referenced elsewhere.
Crafting.
Social combat.
Actual combat.

...The fact that I still love the broken hunk of junk, despite every flaw.
 
Ticks, while theoretically giving more opportunities and permutations for combat, require too much bookkeeping to really be good. So yeah, it's overall bad, even though I love the idea.

Not sure what's wrong with the one Simple Charm per action though. Most charms are Reflexive or Supplemental, so Simple Charms are mostly those that you don't want players to be able to pull out whenever (IAM).
 
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Biigoh said:
It's not just Alchemicals sucking solar cock... it's EVERYONE sucking solar cock. :>

Lethality can be fixed... just provide more health levels. Say every current level gets multiplied by 5.
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That wouldn't work. Things would seriously be messed up at the mortal level.

Exalted 3E did a really good job of 'fixing' lethality, at least in regards to instant splatter. That's one thing it did right.

EDIT: The number of steps you need to do to resolve things in in 2E is also pretty annoying, I guess. Combat slows down immensely for that.

Similar to that is the amount of external/internal penalties the game expects you keep track of and things like distance between characters. Like, I just found out from Shyft's essays that perfect dodges can be turned off by trapping Solar McDodgealot in a bog.
 
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Anondylar said:
Not sure what's wrong with the one Simple Charm per action though. Most charms are Reflexive or Supplemental, so Simple Charms are mostly those that you don't want players to be able to pull out whenever (IAM).
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Not quite what I meant. I assume you're talking about 2.5? I never switched to that. Too much work to run everything out of a PDF while still referring to the books, and it didn't fix anything that I hadn't already made a fix for.
Obviously there should be a limit of one Simple or Extra Action Charm an action, as both are actions in their own right.
It's the restriction on everything else that bothers me.
 
That's the one thing that 2.5 did right. No more combos, or at least no more XP tax for combos.
 
Nolrai2 said:
Cheep perfects are the other reason the combat system fails.
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Perfect spamming is bad, but needing to keep ten motes spare to block a Solar Hero stylist who's rocking Claw of the Wood Dragon is silly.
If they were going to fix that, they should have done something about the flaws. Also some cheap, low investment, not dying to a lucky hit Charms'd be nice. Something like the Alchemical "Can't kill me in one hit, no matter what" charm'd be nice.
 
The thing is, in 1st Edition, all perfects worked fine by the simple fiat of needing 1 willpower (minimum) on top of the mote cost.
 
Nolrai2 said:
Cheep perfects are the other reason the combat system fails.
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Cheap perfects as the only balance for one-hit kills was why the combat system failed.

There's nothing inherently wrong with cheap perfects.

Biigoh said:
The thing is, in 1st Edition, all perfects worked fine by the simple fiat of needing 1 willpower (minimum) on top of the mote cost.
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Did 1e give back Willpower with 2-die stunts? Because stunting back your Perfect expenditure meant slooooooooow risk-averse combat was optimal.
 
evildice said:
Did 1e give back Willpower with 2-die stunts? Because stunting back your Perfect expenditure meant slooooooooow risk-averse combat was optimal.
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Yes. Stunts give 2 motes for 1 dice stunt, 4 motes OR 1 willpower for 2 dice stunts, 6 motes OR 1 willpower for 3 dice stunts.

That said, you conserved your willpower like a mofo because 2 dice stunts are not easy. You did NOT get +1 dice for invoking your motivation or some such... no, stunts required the player to do COOL things.
 
A flaw with 2e and 2.5e that I'm pretty sure will persist for the most part in 3e.
Almost nothing that isn't an exalt is remotely playable.

I get that it's the name of the game, but I'd like to be able to play something else.
Dragon Kings were nice, even if I never got the chance, but...
I doubt we'll get new rules for it in 3e?
 
Godblooded are getting a boost, granted, they're renaming 'em to exalts... exigent or some such. :3
 
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