The Worst Thing about Exalted 2/2.5

[evildice]

It means that any combat charm that costs more then a perfect is automaticly almost useless.

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If you need a Perfect to survive, then the relative cost of the other charm is irrelevant -- it's useless, period.

The problem with 2e/2.5e was that you need to use a Perfect or you're dead.

Make the damage numbers low enough that the health track functions as an ablative defense, and less-than-perfect goes from being useless to being risky-yet-useful.

 

[Nolrai2]

Offensive charms can be useful if they force the defender to spend more in perfects then the Charm costs.

 

[Anondylar]

Ac

Yes. Stunts give 2 motes for 1 dice stunt, 4 motes OR 1 willpower for 2 dice stunts, 6 motes OR 1 willpower for 3 dice stunts.

That said, you conserved your willpower like a mofo because 2 dice stunts are not easy. You did NOT get +1 dice for invoking your motivation or some such... no, stunts required the player to do COOL things.

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Actually, I'm fairly sure two dice stunts were what you were supposed to do every action. You just have to use the environment.

 

[evildice]

Offensive charms can be useful if they force the defender to spend more in perfects then the Charm costs.

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That's true, but you can get that same effect with a sufficiently big death-stick and no Charm cost.

Actually, I'm fairly sure two dice stunts were what you were supposed to do every action. You just have to use the environment.

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That's true in 2e, but the 1e stunt rules don't actually mandate that 2 dice are easy.

The example shows a stunt getting 2 dice because "the storyteller is impressed", not just because the character used the environment.

 

[Biigoh]

Ac

Actually, I'm fairly sure two dice stunts were what you were supposed to do every action. You just have to use the environment.

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Hahahahahahahaha..... oh... that's a good one. Not quite, it has to be cool AND use the environment. Just using the environment doesn't net you stunt dice.

STUNT BONUSES
Bonus Guidelines
+1 The player described the action in a cool or interesting fashion.
+2 The player described the action in a cool fashion, and the character interacted with or took advantage of the environment.
+3 The player comes up with something amazing. Everyone at the table goes "Damn, that's cool."

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One-Die Stunts: A stunt is worth a one-die bonus when the player puts some effort into describing the character's activities. The key is that the player illustrates the action by speaking to the senses, rather than just stating what the character does next. Remember, the point is that you're trying to make the combat easy to imagine and full of powerful images. The goal is to reward creativity and involvement, not just pass out dice.

If someone is repeating the same attack over and over again, stop awarding stunt dice. "I swing my mace at his head in a whistling overhand blow" repeated again and again with slight variations is just as boring as "I hit him with my mace."

You'll also get players who stretch it and give a corny description for every single action to cadge one or two dice out of you. If the player is clearly describing the stunt, not out of inspiration, but in order to get the bonus dice, then don't award the bonus. If you do, you'll just encourage bad behavior.

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Two-Die Stunts: A stunt is worth two dice when the player integrates it into the ongoing scene. When a player describes the stunt, it should involve interaction with the scenery or otherwise make ongoing events in the scene a part of the action.
These sorts of stunts take the action away from something that could be happening in a bare room someplace and ground it firmly in the location and overall thrust of the scene.

As an example, if you watch the black marble hallway gunfight scene in The Matrix, you'll notice that very rarely is a stunt just about one of the lead characters and the mook shooting at him. More frequently, it involves a pillar, a body being used as a shield, an acrobatic maneuver that takes advantage of the terrain or some other integration of the set into the action.

Similarly, watch the scene where Jubei kills the stone giant Tessai in Ninja Scroll. Tessai doesn't just hit Jubei, he smashes his hand through the wall to get to Jubei. Then, he punches Jubei into the stone lamp post so hard he shatters it. All these examples take advantage of the set to make the fight more interesting, and that sort of thing is what qualifies for a two-die stunt bonus.

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Three-Die Stunts: There aren't any firm guidelines for a three-die stunt, other than "it makes you go wow."
Most one- and two-die stunts will end up exploiting visual cliches. They're entertaining, but they're not surprising or unexpected. A three-die stunt is the kind of thing that makes the group go "wow."

A three-die stunt might be something not entirely original that's really well described or really apt. Maybe a character turns a villain's attack back on him in a totally appropriate way, or maybe the player just describes something that's so fitting to her character that you can't imagine it not working.

It might be something so visually or conceptually cool you desperately wish you'd thought of it. A three-die stunt might also be something so absolutely audacious or allout that you just have to give a large bonus for it.

An excellent example of a good three-die stunt is the scene in The Killer during the final battle at the church. The gweilo assassin comes in and plugs Chow Yun-Fat with his shotgun, and as CYF slo-mos backward, the dove flies over the rack of votive candles and extinguishes half of them. A three-die stunt is visual poetry, one of the things that people will remember from the session and potentially from the series as a whole. Reward it appropriately.

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[Anondylar]

Oh, you were talking about 1e. I thought that was about 2e. My bad.

 

[Bre Karn]

Godblooded are getting a boost, granted, they're renaming 'em to exalts... exigent or some such. :3

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We already have glorified godblooded, they're called Terrestrial Exalts.

/not serious, but damn, those Exigent snipes are starting to get tedious. Why would the Celestial Incarnae be the only ones with the right to make Exalts?

 

[Valette-Serafina]

It means that any combat charm that costs more then a perfect is automaticly almost useless.

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Five-fold Bulwark stance, Iron Whirlwind, Claws of the Wood Dragon by way of Sorcery, Solar Hero Form...
The list goes on fairly far.

/not serious, but damn, those Exigent snipes are starting to get tedious. Why would the Celestial Incarnae be the only ones with the right to make Exalts?

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Celestial Incarnae and Primordials, and asking that is like asking why no one could just make more Silmarilli. Surely there was nothing special about the two trees, after all.

 

[UrsaTempest]

Exigent gives a niche slot for player that likes homebrewing charms etcetera Devil-tiger etcetera integrated to setting etcetera. We've been over this, Bii.

 

[Plotvitalnpc]

The problem with 2e/2.5e:
All those lost fanon resources.

I miss the writeup of Reclining Squirrel Style, which is eminently defeatable and infinitely inferior to any style you might have learned.

 

[pepperjack]

Reclining Squirrel Style

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You prompted me to track this down, and for that I thank you.

 

[Biigoh]

/not serious, but damn, those Exigent snipes are starting to get tedious. Why would the Celestial Incarnae be the only ones with the right to make Exalts?

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Five-fold Bulwark stance, Iron Whirlwind, Claws of the Wood Dragon by way of Sorcery, Solar Hero Form...
The list goes on fairly far.


Celestial Incarnae and Primordials, and asking that is like asking why no one could just make more Silmarilli. Surely there was nothing special about the two trees, after all.

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Exigent gives a niche slot for player that likes homebrewing charms etcetera Devil-tiger etcetera integrated to setting etcetera. We've been over this, Bii.

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Because from my understanding... mortals don't get essence usage in 3rd edition, and this includes godblooded. However, you have exigent with powers from a god, who are able to use essence, power level ranges all over the place.... they kind of fit the godblooded design from 1st edition and 2nd edition.

 

[Valette-Serafina]

Because from my understanding... mortals don't get essence usage in 3rd edition, and this includes godblooded. However, you have exigent with powers from a god, who are able to use essence, power level ranges all over the place.... they kind of fit the godblooded design from 1st edition and 2nd edition.

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So bloody well call them Godblooded. It's not as if that's a small thing, y'know. Heracles wasn't disappointed with his standing.

 

[Bre Karn]

Celestial Incarnae and Primordials, and asking that is like asking why no one could just make more Silmarilli. Surely there was nothing special about the two trees, after all.

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The Celestial Incarnae are just more powerful gods, and the Unconquered Sun is still the only one to master the process.
Also the questions have the same answer: it costs something big to create the Silmarils or an Exaltation. The light of the Trees of Valinor, the power or very existence of a god, and the skill of a peerless crafstman (Autochton/UCS and Fëanor).

So bloody well call them Godblooded. It's not as if that's a small thing, y'know. Heracles wasn't disappointed with his standing.

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Their powers are not hereditary, and require more of the god than to blow their load inside a mortal woman or have their uterus tenanted for a while. It's eternal diminishment or death.
So nope, the only ones that should be called glorified Godblooded, by your metric, are the Dragon-Blooded. And lo and behold, they can make more Exaltations, OMFG OP NERF!

 

[Valette-Serafina]

The Celestial Incarnae are just more powerful gods, and the Unconquered Sun is still the only one to master the process.

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You say that like EX3 is canon or something, rather than a heap of lies and bloat garbed in pretty pictures and soft lies.
And that's not true, by the way. The Incarnae are gods, yes, but they're more than that. No justs. It's the difference between an angel and Lucifer. A wolf and Fenrir. A tree and Yggdrasil. A ring and the One Ring.

Also the questions have the same answer: it costs something big to create the Silmarils or an Exaltation. The light of the Trees of Valinor, the power or very existence of a god, and the skill of a peerless crafstman (Autochton/UCS and Fëanor).

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There are countless options for a new god of Keys. Yu Shan has an abundance of very willing candidates, in fact. Nothing unique is needed to make a chosen of keys, just a life.
Of course, you don't need a god of that standing to make an exigent, apparently. A village and a few fields are enough to make an exigent capable of routing an army of the fair folk, after all.

There are many gods. An Exaltation created though one of them is a cheap thing indeed.

Their powers are not hereditary, and require more of the god than to blow their load inside a mortal woman or have their uterus tenanted for a while. It's eternal diminishment or death.

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Cheap at twice the price. The Sidereal Exalted have gods killed to forge their jewellery, this'd be Kejak's wet dream.

So nope, the only ones that should be called glorified Godblooded, by your metric, are the Dragon-Blooded. And lo and behold, they can make more Exaltations, OMFG OP NERF!

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While there are a few Godblooded Terrestrials, the first had no godly blood whatsoever. They're something else, the children of Gaia through her Elemental Dragons.
As for their Exaltation, it's not a personal one like the Solar Exaltation. It's a bloodline, an Exaltation of a family.

Regardless, they've always been the ones that stand out, the exception. The only Exalts who Autocthon had no hand in. The least, but unlimited in number. The perishable Exalted, who could die forever.

If you want to make petty little mocking jabs and call them Godblooded, feel free. I care very little. I've already decided to keep using Ex2. I'm not impressed by the butchery of the setting, I'm not impressed with the butchery of the mechanics, and I'm not impressed with the nonsense of the developers.

 

[Bre Karn]

You say that like EX3 is canon or something,

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Disappointing as it may be, unfortunately for you, Third Edition is canon.

While there are a few Godblooded Terrestrials, the first had no godly blood whatsoever. They're something else, the children of Gaia through her Elemental Dragons.

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Godblooded with a special snowflake origin, then.
Besides, it's not like anything was lost when forging their 'Exaltatation', as well.
And it just takes two humans copulating with each other to create a Dragon-Blooded.
Ergo, even less than Godblooded.

If you want to make petty little mocking jabs and call them Godblooded, feel free. I care very little. I've already decided to keep using Ex2. I'm not impressed by the butchery of the setting, I'm not impressed with the butchery of the mechanics, and I'm not impressed with the nonsense of the developers.

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Then stop polluting threads with your spite.
EDIT: nevermind, it was not you who started it.

 

[Anondylar]

My problem with the Exigents is that they make the exceptional unexceptional.

 

[Biigoh]

Ah... but in 1e and 2e, godblooded find it hard to pass down their divinity to their kids. Almost impossible in fact.

And since exigent are like normal exalts... wanna bet there will be those exigent that can breed like DBs?

 

[UrsaTempest]

Ah... but in 1e and 2e, godblooded find it hard to pass down their divinity to their kids. Almost impossible in fact.

And since exigent are like normal exalts... wanna bet there will be those exigent that can breed like DBs?

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If you want them to be, sure.

As I previously said, they exist so you can plug your new, one-of-a-kind Exaltation without rebuilding the setting from the ground-up like 'How the hell my awesome snowflaked Exalt exist from First Age doesn't do shit until now? Oh! I know! Because they don't exist!'

 

[Biigoh]

Tanuki exalted? Ish simple. They were always there... just very drunk. :3

 

[kinglugia]

This is amusing as fuck.

 

[Least Devotee]

Central elements of the setting being buried in obscure side rulebooks, like the calender or the 25 hour day.

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While I haven't found anything I truly disagree with in the rest of the thread I have to comment here. Calendar is first listed on page 26 of the Core book under Weather and Climate. Length of the day I can't find but I'm pretty sure it's also in the Core book.

 

[Biigoh]

They changed the day to 24, didn't they?

And really... the hours... don't matter much ^^;