• An addendum to Rule 3 regarding fan-translated works of things such as Web Novels has been made. Please see here for details.
  • We've issued a clarification on our policy on AI-generated work.
  • Our mod selection process has completed. Please welcome our new moderators.
  • Due to issues with external spam filters, QQ is currently unable to send any mail to Microsoft E-mail addresses. This includes any account at live.com, hotmail.com or msn.com. Signing up to the forum with one of these addresses will result in your verification E-mail never arriving. For best results, please use a different E-mail provider for your QQ address.
  • For prospective new members, a word of warning: don't use common names like Dennis, Simon, or Kenny if you decide to create an account. Spammers have used them all before you and gotten those names flagged in the anti-spam databases. Your account registration will be rejected because of it.
  • Since it has happened MULTIPLE times now, I want to be very clear about this. You do not get to abandon an account and create a new one. You do not get to pass an account to someone else and create a new one. If you do so anyway, you will be banned for creating sockpuppets.
  • Due to the actions of particularly persistent spammers and trolls, we will be banning disposable email addresses from today onward.
  • The rules regarding NSFW links have been updated. See here for details.

What happens when you realize that the government has hid something massive from you?

What to do?

  • Make a religion

    Votes: 3 4.5%

  • Panic and run for the hills

    Votes: 2 3.0%

  • Join a petition to ask for more reveals and information

    Votes: 6 9.1%

  • Begin investigating

    Votes: 10 15.2%

  • Calling for impeachment and punishment for these lies

    Votes: 6 9.1%

  • Meh

    Votes: 33 50.0%

  • Others

    Votes: 6 9.1%
  • Total voters
    66

Accelerator

Versed in the lewd.
Joined
Dec 6, 2018
Messages
1,368
Like... for men in black, for example.

Let's say a explosion/ alien invasion/ leaked documents/ sudden attack on new york occurred, and then the secret is out. It turns out that the government has been lying to the citizenry for years, keeping things secret, that are extremely important and earth-shattering. Stuff like 'There are alternate dimensions' or 'Aliens exist and we've got spacecraft in our hangers' to 'we've made first contact with aliens from alternate dimensions and told no one' or 'we've gone to another planet, stole some tech, and that's how we got that fusion reactor'.

Or 'magic using aliens are real, and we didn't tell you, and we've been working with them for years'*

Here's the thing. How would you, and those surrounding you, react? As in, angry? Ask for impeachment? Demand access to the tech? Ask if the aliens are hot? Try and make contact with the aliens?** Start a new religion? Panic?

Please also tell us your country name.

*Think Magical girl Nanoha

** Aliens are all alternate dimension humans
 
Well if it's there's aliens levels of secrecy my model of the world is extremately wrong and requires serious updating.

I guess what I would do depends a lot on the specifics of the sitiuation obiously.

I might be angry, but that kind of depends on why they keep the secret.
In fiction the excuses are often pretty lame though.
 
UK here The Official secrets act covers a lot so meh. Have signed and seen some top secret stuff. Which I can't talk about mostly cos It was stuff with top secret labels on it which I got to move. Didn't even get a cool mook outfit.:(.
UK government routinely lies and tells half truths to the public at large sometimes for good reason ( Not going to be any Normandy style landing in the Falkland's) Oops we lied! sometimes for horrible reasons. Northern Ireland.
So government might well have good reasons to have kept secrets.
 
FVS said:
Well if it's there's aliens levels of secrecy my model of the world is extremately wrong and requires serious updating.

I guess what I would do depends a lot on the specifics of the sitiuation obiously.

I might be angry, but that kind of depends on why they keep the secret.
In fiction the excuses are often pretty lame though.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
To avoid mass disruptions and panic.

The secrets are big enough to shift things. Like ww1. Or industrialisation.
 
The thing is that in a multi-nation state world, governments need a certain degree of freedom of action to function. There are things that have to be done behind closed doors, political sausage has to be made, so on and so forth. That sort of thing can't be done in a purely democratic way either (like the military, police, internal security, espionage, and the like can't be done democratically because that ruins any chance of doing what is needed)... and people have forgotten that.
 
Personally? I probably wouldn't do anything, unless the thing affects me directly. Honestly, I'd be more concerned with the leak itself, and what it means for our national information security. Maybe I'd make plans to stay inside for a while - there'd probably be riots by people less apathetic than me, and I don't really want to get involved in those.

We already know the government keeps secrets. We already know those secrets are big. That's nothing new, the world's been that way since humanity first decided that groups need leaders.
 
I'd be keen to unravel the entire spaghetti of lies. Would be nice to not just know 'aliens exist', but under what circumstances was it led to becoming a secret, what dangers and funding issues has been caused by this, what is the gain of revealing the secret, what is the gain of it having been a secret, and also the infinite questions I would have for actual aliens (what do you eat what do you breathe how do your sexes work what is your internal anatomy culture culture i want to know your culture myths and legends and stories I want all of it what is your native tongue like how do you think humans are doing compratively do you have genitals have any of you banged a human from our world and if so how was the experience from 1-10, etc etc etc) (even if they're alternate dimension humans- there must be some variance or my perspective on how nature vs nurture works is broken)

But in the Uk as someone else said there is official proceedure for state secrets and it is generally meh unless it's something that's caught the public's interest.
 
Scherazade said:
I'd be keen to unravel the entire spaghetti of lies. Would be nice to not just know 'aliens exist', but under what circumstances was it led to becoming a secret, what dangers and funding issues has been caused by this, what is the gain of revealing the secret, what is the gain of it having been a secret, and also the infinite questions I would have for actual aliens (what do you eat what do you breathe how do your sexes work what is your internal anatomy culture culture i want to know your culture myths and legends and stories I want all of it what is your native tongue like how do you think humans are doing compratively do you have genitals have any of you banged a human from our world and if so how was the experience from 1-10, etc etc etc) (even if they're alternate dimension humans- there must be some variance or my perspective on how nature vs nurture works is broken)

But in the Uk as someone else said there is official proceedure for state secrets and it is generally meh unless it's something that's caught the public's interest.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
They're human aliens.

Several reasons.

1. Avoidance of societal chaos. Yes, cliche. But true. Aliens. Human aliens at that. With different religions, ways of life, politics, and other sciences. And magic. The world will go crazy.

2. Magic. As it turns out, we're the massive exception. Magic exists. And magic is easy. So easy in fact, that its a minor miracle we haven't discovered it yet. Just plain old 'normal science'. Not the mana-powered math of MidChilda. Not the Hypergeometry of the Yeventine Caliphate. Not the Flesh-warping powers of the Sarkic Empire. Not the matter-manipulating powers of the T'renshigan Federation. Not easy to master... but its easy enough to completely disrupt life on earth. Imagine terrorists being able to craft tons of Sarin and VX gas. Imagine alt right extremists crafting nuclear bombs in their garages. Nihilistic environmentalists creating world-destroying pathogens in kitchens. And worse. Imagine entire firms being outproduced by fabrication and construction magic. Muslims going completely bonkers at the idea of magic (I asked them. All magic is considered to be from the Devil.). The governments are currently trying to prepare for this. For massive disruption. Things will change, but hopefully no one will die.

3. Immigration. The outer places.... are kinda better than Earth. Higher tech. Higher standard of living. Highly liberal (different social history, different liberties and restrictions). It can easily be post scarcity.... if it wasn't for the constant, non-stop wars. Know what that means? Immigration. Lots of it. Many will be attracted by the allure of higher science, higher tech, and the exoticness of alien worlds. Think of it as brain drain. Constant, brain drain.

4. Fear. They're afraid. Afraid of what will happen when you open up. Afraid of history on earth repeating, on a grand scale. Afraid of what will happen to themselves, and their countries if they were to open up to dimesional space. And since the voters might disagree.... well, let's not release it yet, shall we?
 
I... don't really trust our Russian government very much, to be honest. I suppose I might join a petition, though I'd be still rather wary of the government (or, for that matter, the aliens*) finding me and doing something bad to me because of that. Probably more likely to join the petition if it already has at least several hundred thousand signatures.

I don't think asking for impeachment/removal is usually much of an option in Russia (well, it is technically always an option, but it is essentially guaranteed not to work), and in the cases where it is actually a meaningful option, this is usually because the replacement candidate is worse. So not that either.

Panic might be a possibility depending on how disrupted things are already, but unlikely in the initial stages. In particular, it is very possible that by the time I realize I should panic, it will be too late to do that in a useful way (i.e. not enough time to properly escape, and/or no remaining place to escape to).

Other than that... I guess "meh" is the closest remaining option in the poll, though it's not quite right either. I think I'd personally describe it as "hope for the best".


*) um, the aliens are relatively benevolent, right? Because I can totally imagine the aliens sympathizing with a particular Earth ideology and very efficiently oppressing everyone who isn't part of it, and/or propagating their own ideology and oppressng everyone who isn't part of that...
 
Aaron Fox said:
The thing is that in a multi-nation state world, governments need a certain degree of freedom of action to function. There are things that have to be done behind closed doors, political sausage has to be made, so on and so forth. That sort of thing can't be done in a purely democratic way either (like the military, police, internal security, espionage, and the like can't be done democratically because that ruins any chance of doing what is needed)... and people have forgotten that.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There's truth in this. The problem with closed doors, though, is that they've become a hotbed of policy laundering - betraying your constituents without giving your constituents a target to lynch (either literally or at the polls).

More on-topic - seek out the magic and attempt to become a wizard. Probably one of those wizards that hides away performing forbidden magic and then shows up with a giant undead army, because while most people who know me say I'm a good person I do have some rather profound ethical differences from most people I've met and I do think society would run better if everyone answered to me* (this is not the same as thinking I can run everything better than experts in that field; I am capable of delegation).

*The main reasons I'm not out to overthrow the world order are that 1) I do not have the resources needed to launch a coup and have no real means of getting them, 2) even if I could make things run better, the big issue with dictatorships is always succession. Magic gives individuals greater power and often offers the prospect of immortality, potentially circumventing both problems.
 
january1may said:
*) um, the aliens are relatively benevolent, right? Because I can totally imagine the aliens sympathizing with a particular Earth ideology and very efficiently oppressing everyone who isn't part of it, and/or propagating their own ideology and oppressng everyone who isn't part of that...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Eh... Mostly white hats.
 
Accelerator said:
They're human aliens.

Several reasons.

1. Avoidance of societal chaos. Yes, cliche. But true. Aliens. Human aliens at that. With different religions, ways of life, politics, and other sciences. And magic. The world will go crazy.

2. Magic. As it turns out, we're the massive exception. Magic exists. And magic is easy. So easy in fact, that its a minor miracle we haven't discovered it yet. Just plain old 'normal science'. Not the mana-powered math of MidChilda. Not the Hypergeometry of the Yeventine Caliphate. Not the Flesh-warping powers of the Sarkic Empire. Not the matter-manipulating powers of the T'renshigan Federation. Not easy to master... but its easy enough to completely disrupt life on earth. Imagine terrorists being able to craft tons of Sarin and VX gas. Imagine alt right extremists crafting nuclear bombs in their garages. Nihilistic environmentalists creating world-destroying pathogens in kitchens. And worse. Imagine entire firms being outproduced by fabrication and construction magic. Muslims going completely bonkers at the idea of magic (I asked them. All magic is considered to be from the Devil.). The governments are currently trying to prepare for this. For massive disruption. Things will change, but hopefully no one will die.

3. Immigration. The outer places.... are kinda better than Earth. Higher tech. Higher standard of living. Highly liberal (different social history, different liberties and restrictions). It can easily be post scarcity.... if it wasn't for the constant, non-stop wars. Know what that means? Immigration. Lots of it. Many will be attracted by the allure of higher science, higher tech, and the exoticness of alien worlds. Think of it as brain drain. Constant, brain drain.

4. Fear. They're afraid. Afraid of what will happen when you open up. Afraid of history on earth repeating, on a grand scale. Afraid of what will happen to themselves, and their countries if they were to open up to dimesional space. And since the voters might disagree.... well, let's not release it yet, shall we?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I think 1 3 and 4 are stupid reasons to keep something like that secret (and well I'm not sure why the aliens would collaborate to keep it secret)
I can perfectly imagine some governments doing it for those reasons though.
If it was only that I would be extremately angry, especially if the aliens have better medicine and life extension (wich would probably mean most deaths on earth are the gobermet's fault, which is like the most evil ever committed in consecuentialist terms, and personaly infuriating because it would mean the deaths of some of my relatives are the government's fault )

Of course I would demand more info , and try to figure out more, especially because keeping something like that secret for a long time means everything I though I knew about the government and how opsec works is wrong.

I don't care if it's a big disruption, one doesn't deal whith big disruptions by keeping it secret and not doing anything obious about it, big disruptions can be good anyway, and keeping stuff secret is extremely deficukt and limits a lot your options.


But 2 changes everything.
If there's magic and people knowing about it is big existencial risk on the level of pubicaly avaliable nuclear weapons or bioengeniered plagues , then I agree that it should be kept secret.

Like there are few reasons to kept your citicens in the dark about whole alien civilizations but this qualifies.

It also means either its less powerful for the aliens, or they are extremately competent or extremately controlling of their population.
(or maybe other reasons like, it's only so dangerous because we have no defenses against magic or that the scale of their civilization is so big that a few billions of people dying is no big deal and happens often).

If it's to prevent the end of the world I'm fine whith the government being careful about that kind of stuff and keeping it secret.

Entire firms being outproduced by fabrication and construction magic is not that much of a problem though, it's a big deal but old business getting outcompeted by new tech is just bunisness as usual.

Now if how to do magic has gotten out we are fucked anyway and we probably should be emigrating to the probably safer alien worlds before some idiot decides to destroy the world, so I might end demanding more info anyway.
If not I'll collaborate in whatever I can to keep it secret, though whith suspicions of the magic is dangerous thing being a lie.
 
From the US.

I'd be absolutely shocked at the unexpected display of competency in keeping a secret like that longer than 5 minutes. :p

Whether I'd actually be mad depends on the specifics of the situation but I'd definitely be looking into somewhere less batshit insane to emigrate to at that point.
 
Vorian said:
From the US.

I'd be absolutely shocked at the unexpected display of competency in keeping a secret like that longer than 5 minutes. :p

Whether I'd actually be mad depends on the specifics of the situation but I'd definitely be looking into somewhere less batshit insane to emigrate to at that point.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
What would make you mad?
 
Accelerator said:
China. PRC.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Oh. While can't exactly speak for myself I could guess that half of my relatives back in the mainland won't give a fuck while the other half would probably be part of the conspiracy. The PRC government is not all that competent or even centralized despite the popular perception. I mean, even the great firewall is more of a joke than anything especially when the people supposed to monitor it frequently cross over to surf blocked sites.
 
I'd be legit surprised if the government wasn't hiding something.
 
I'd watch a Daily Show summary of the scandal then flip over to Sportscenter. This already happened, John Oliver got his HBO show thanks to leaks.
 
Aliens would be bad.

Like the discovery of the Aztecs and Inca bad.

Remember, the Catholic Church boiled the heretics alive, in big copper vats. Or burned them alive, if it wasn't raining outside.

Soon, European diseases spread and killed 90% of the Incans. Executions and slavery killed much of the rest.

That's why they have Dia de Muerto as a holiday. Because the aliens came to visit.
 
Well, I mean, the government apparently knows about UFOs, but I hadn't heard about it until a few weeks ago. Going by my reaction, I guess I wouldn't really care unless it impacted me in some way?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top