Why I struggle writing my dragon ball self-insert fanfic:

[f0Ri5]

1.) Dragon balls are way too OP. I have to ass-pull reasons for why my character can't abuse them.

2.) Characters in dragon ball are NPCs, outside of the main cast. The main cast have worthy, clear cut goals: saving the earth/universe/multiverse. Other important characters exist only for the main cast (who are basically Goku and Vegeta at this point) to interact with. Beerus sleeps most of the time and does very little when he's awake. Whis is literally just a minder for Beerus. The other gods of destruction and their angels are the same. I want to write different perspectives, but I struggle to find something for the characters to think about that doesn't relate to Goku/ Vegeta or the self-insert.

3.) My self-insert turns into a power-leveling munchkin because there isn't much else for him to do. This is related to the point above. I can't find someone interesting for him to speak with. When conversations do happen, it's hard not to bring up the bullshit that happens in dragon ball. Namely, why they don't use Shenron and Porunga to solve all their problems or become brokenly overpowered! Seriously, even when ignoring the plot holes as possible topics of conversation, characters are too simple and NPC-like.

4.) 'Geniuses' are way too dumb! Take Bulma and Dr. Gero as examples. It should be abundantly clear to any self respecting scientist that Ki is the most important topic to be investigated. It's literally the difference between mortality and godhood. It's been shown already that ki-measuring instruments can be created, like scouters or the dragon radar. Hell, it's not even that hard for a mortal to awaken Ki or learn how to sense it. There is no good reason why a random smart dude can't use the scientific method to investigate Ki and become brokenly overpowered.

5.) I can't create strong characters for my self-insert to interact with. If a character is strong, then they should have been chosen to participate in the tournament of power. If I create a strong character, I have to give a reason why they've been flying under the radar all this time. It feels convoluted, contrived and unnatural.

I could come up with more reasons, but you guys get the idea.

The dragon-ball multiverse just isn't a good setting for a semi-serious fanfiction. Perhaps it would be possible to do one if I went the AU route, but that's a lot of work when I wasn't planning on writing hardcore in the first place.

 

[jo demon]

1.) Dragon balls are way too OP. I have to ass-pull reasons for why my character can't abuse them.

3.) My self-insert turns into a power-leveling munchkin because there isn't much else for him to do. This is related to the point above. I can't find someone interesting for him to speak with. When conversations do happen, it's hard not to bring up the bullshit that happens in dragon ball. Namely, why they don't use Shenron and Porunga to solve all their problems or become brokenly overpowered! Seriously, even when ignoring the plot holes as possible topics of conversation, characters are too simple and NPC-like.

Click to shrink...

You are aware that most problems in the series, the villians, tend to be too strong for the dragon balls to affect, right? It was brought up that the sayians were already too strong to be affected by shenron in their first appearance.[/QUOTE]

 

[f0Ri5]

You are aware that most problems in the series, the villians, tend to be too strong for the dragon balls to affect, right? It was brought up that the sayians were already too strong to be affected by shenron in their first appearance.

Click to shrink...

[/QUOTE]

You don't need to use the dragon balls to kill villians, you can just buff yourself.

 

[mizzet]

Hm, the first thing to say that comes to mind is 'don't be afraid to be creative'. Even without going full AU quite a few things can be added or interpreted about a setting in fanfiction. Can make things quite a bit richer.

Next thing is when are you setting it? Dependent on the time line things can be more or less crazy, but going by things mentioned I'm assuming Super.


1) Yeah, kind of. General reasons can be needing Bulma's/the Dragonradar's help to find them, since it's otherwise pretty hard. Needing to have them available to be ready for one emergency or another, or just making some more restrictions for them.

For a more canonical reason you could use what happened with one of the characters in the current arc. He wished to be the strongest in the universe. It worked, but he had to sacrifice the majority of his life span to have his wish granted. So you can have personal modifications/power ups come at a cost that the character might not be willing to pay.

2) Then make them actual characters. Fighting power really doesn't need to be the only thing on a character's mind. Let them have a life outside the constant fighting and training that is shown. Or if things have to focus on the fighting try giving them some attempt at clawing their way upwards that isn't just the biggest boom (Even if they fail).

3) Basically the same as 2). You are in charge of the characters. Your characters can do things other then fighting in DBZ. If characters feel like NPCs, it's the writer's job to flesh them out to a degree that makes them feel like actual characters. The original DB also has stuff you can pull on to add different things to the world/characters if you want.

4) Capsules are incredibly useful, even if they don't help you blow up a planet. Bulma's Dragonradar/time machine/Gravity room have all contributed to plot progression in some way or another. Not wanting to be personally able to bench press a planet is hardly a sign of lacking intelligence.

But Gero actually was rather focused on fighting directed research. Each android he created for DBZ was strong enough to bring space-empires to their knees. DBZ Frieza used to be one of the strongest beings in the Galaxy by a wide margin. Each android could have killed him with both arms tied behind their back. In terms of focusing on fighting power that's pretty darn good. It would just also require a willingness to undergo surgery completely taking apart your own body.

And if you want to go for a training regime, that's significantly less proven and would still require a ton of work. If you're a scientist you have other things to do then following this super training program you have developed 24/7.


DB tech can be very interesting. You shouldn't limit its focus only on fighting. But if that is what you want to focus on - then do so. Have your character be the impetus for one scientific character or another to focus more on Ki research. On training, perhaps you can see about training methods being developed that would allow some of the side characters to also learn new abilities/become stronger.

5) Thing to remember is that Beerus and Shin are incompetent. Shin is kind of ok, Beerus is worse then useless. Next arc had a space prison with a guy who eats planets capable of beating down Goku & Vegeta at the same time (till they adapt) and an android capable of copying abilities to the degree that he could beat up Piccolo/Gohan and copy (part) of aforementioned planet-eater.

The arc after that also has a guy who'd supposedly matter in a fight against Frieza. No one noticed DBS Broly just because he had no space ship. DBZ filler introduced afterlife characters capable of easily beating up Super-Cell, etc. There are also characters with weirder abilities, the planet that taught Goku instant transmission have a lot of weird abilities, training for which was enough to be a big power up for Vegeta. (He came to learn an ability that literally allowed him to beat the fusion/absorption out of people.

If you want you could introduce various characters with different strengths or just weird abilities.

 

[jo demon]

You don't need to use the dragon balls to kill villians, you can just buff yourself.[/QUOTE]
Which eventually fails as you get too strong for the Dragon balls to effect, running into the same problem.

 

[f0Ri5]

You don't need to use the dragon balls to kill villians, you can just buff yourself.

Click to shrink...

Which eventually fails as you get too strong for the Dragon balls to effect, running into the same problem.[/QUOTE]

Not really. You could wish to swap bodies with broly. You could wish to know all the fighting techniques in the universe. You could wish to have the highest IQ. Pretty easy to come up with some retarded wishes if you brainstorm for a bit.

 

[f0Ri5]

Hm, the first thing to say that comes to mind is 'don't be afraid to be creative'. Even without going full AU quite a few things can be added or interpreted about a setting in fanfiction. Can make things quite a bit richer.

Next thing is when are you setting it? Dependent on the time line things can be more or less crazy, but going by things mentioned I'm assuming Super.


1) Yeah, kind of. General reasons can be needing Bulma's/the Dragonradar's help to find them, since it's otherwise pretty hard. Needing to have them available to be ready for one emergency or another, or just making some more restrictions for them.

For a more canonical reason you could use what happened with one of the characters in the current arc. He wished to be the strongest in the universe. It worked, but he had to sacrifice the majority of his life span to have his wish granted. So you can have personal modifications/power ups come at a cost that the character might not be willing to pay.

2) Then make them actual characters. Fighting power really doesn't need to be the only thing on a character's mind. Let them have a life outside the constant fighting and training that is shown. Or if things have to focus on the fighting try giving them some attempt at clawing their way upwards that isn't just the biggest boom (Even if they fail).

3) Basically the same as 2). You are in charge of the characters. Your characters can do things other then fighting in DBZ. If characters feel like NPCs, it's the writer's job to flesh them out to a degree that makes them feel like actual characters. The original DB also has stuff you can pull on to add different things to the world/characters if you want.

4) Capsules are incredibly useful, even if they don't help you blow up a planet. Bulma's Dragonradar/time machine/Gravity room have all contributed to plot progression in some way or another. Not wanting to be personally able to bench press a planet is hardly a sign of lacking intelligence.

But Gero actually was rather focused on fighting directed research. Each android he created for DBZ was strong enough to bring space-empires to their knees. DBZ Frieza used to be one of the strongest beings in the Galaxy by a wide margin. Each android could have killed him with both arms tied behind their back. In terms of focusing on fighting power that's pretty darn good. It would just also require a willingness to undergo surgery completely taking apart your own body.

And if you want to go for a training regime, that's significantly less proven and would still require a ton of work. If you're a scientist you have other things to do then following this super training program you have developed 24/7.


DB tech can be very interesting. You shouldn't limit its focus only on fighting. But if that is what you want to focus on - then do so. Have your character be the impetus for one scientific character or another to focus more on Ki research. On training, perhaps you can see about training methods being developed that would allow some of the side characters to also learn new abilities/become stronger.

5) Thing to remember is that Beerus and Shin are incompetent. Shin is kind of ok, Beerus is worse then useless. Next arc had a space prison with a guy who eats planets capable of beating down Goku & Vegeta at the same time (till they adapt) and an android capable of copying abilities to the degree that he could beat up Piccolo/Gohan and copy (part) of aforementioned planet-eater.

The arc after that also has a guy who'd supposedly matter in a fight against Frieza. No one noticed DBS Broly just because he had no space ship. DBZ filler introduced afterlife characters capable of easily beating up Super-Cell, etc. There are also characters with weirder abilities, the planet that taught Goku instant transmission have a lot of weird abilities, training for which was enough to be a big power up for Vegeta. (He came to learn an ability that literally allowed him to beat the fusion/absorption out of people.

If you want you could introduce various characters with different strengths or just weird abilities.

Click to shrink...

This post is L O N G. Quite hard to reply to everything you said.

Like I said in my first post, I don't want to thumbsuck stuff that isn't in dragon ball. It tends to feel tacked on and out of place (because it is). I guess its possible to make everything fit nicely, but a lot of new backstory stuff needs to be created for that to work. Something like 'oh, bulma just works on what she finds interesting and she doesn't like anything related to fighting'. It becomes more dodgy once you start trying to think of reasons for why Dr Gero, a power obsessed super genius, never made his own dragon radar and gathered the dragon balls.

 

[Amazon Climber]

Not really. You could wish to swap bodies with broly. You could wish to know all the fighting techniques in the universe. You could wish to have the highest IQ. Pretty easy to come up with some retarded wishes if you brainstorm for a bit.

Click to shrink...

The Dragon Balls couldn't even be used to kill Nappa and Vegeta. And that should have been trivial; just pop their spaceships and laugh as they suffocate. Or their oxygen tanks. Or some vital component. Or send them off-course into a nearby star. So just assume the dragon can't affect things too much stronger than Kami, directly or indirectly. The sole exception is immortality, which isn't really a power so much as toggling on God Mode.

Extrapolate from there: Anything which could make your SI stronger than Kami could get you, even indirectly is outside the dragon's power no matter how you metagame it.

Is that how it actually works? Who gives a flying fuck. Just pick an interpretation that makes sense, then stay consistent.

 

[S.I.N]

The Dragon Balls couldn't even be used to kill Nappa and Vegeta. And that should have been trivial; just pop their spaceships and laugh as they suffocate. Or their oxygen tanks. Or some vital component. Or send them off-course into a nearby star. So just assume the dragon can't affect things too much stronger than Kami, directly or indirectly. The sole exception is immortality, which isn't really a power so much as toggling on God Mode.

Extrapolate from there: Anything which could make your SI stronger than Kami could get you, even indirectly is outside the dragon's power no matter how you metagame it.

Is that how it actually works? Who gives a flying fuck. Just pick an interpretation that makes sense, then stay consistent.

Click to shrink...

As reveled in the manga you can still use basic bitch dragon balls to become stronger then ultra instinct Goku the cost being most of your life force which you can easily fix by stealing a dragon radar going to another planet and using theirs to give yourself immortality. Fuck universe seven has how many sets earth, namak, and cereal, not counting the black star ball's oh wait you don't have to do that earth Grant's two wishes

 

[Stanley_Jeb]

1.) Dragon balls are way too OP. I have to ass-pull reasons for why my character can't abuse them.

Click to shrink...

Some Dragonballs have arbitrary restrictions (such as not being able to resurrect twice) and have similarly arbitrary power limits. In theory, so long as a wish hasn't already been made in the show, you could simply say that the Dragonballs aren't designed to do that or don't have enough power to do what you want them to do.

2.) Characters in dragon ball are NPCs, outside of the main cast. The main cast have worthy, clear cut goals: saving the earth/universe/multiverse. Other important characters exist only for the main cast (who are basically Goku and Vegeta at this point) to interact with. Beerus sleeps most of the time and does very little when he's awake. Whis is literally just a minder for Beerus. The other gods of destruction and their angels are the same. I want to write different perspectives, but I struggle to find something for the characters to think about that doesn't relate to Goku/ Vegeta or the self-insert.

Click to shrink...

True, but on the flipside you can basically use them as OCs/Blank Slates due to them not having much going on to begin with. If you need inspiration for how they could be used, you could, say, watch Abridged or tone up some of the character's aspects. Since you mentioned Whis, I'm assuming you're writing a DBS one, so you could probably flesh out casts from other Universes that way.

3.) My self-insert turns into a power-leveling munchkin because there isn't much else for him to do. This is related to the point above. I can't find someone interesting for him to speak with. When conversations do happen, it's hard not to bring up the bullshit that happens in dragon ball. Namely, why they don't use Shenron and Porunga to solve all their problems or become brokenly overpowered! Seriously, even when ignoring the plot holes as possible topics of conversation, characters are too simple and NPC-like.

Click to shrink...

Can't help with that I'm afraid, doubly so since the actual main characters of the show itself amount to little more.

4.) 'Geniuses' are way too dumb! Take Bulma and Dr. Gero as examples. It should be abundantly clear to any self respecting scientist that Ki is the most important topic to be investigated. It's literally the difference between mortality and godhood. It's been shown already that ki-measuring instruments can be created, like scouters or the dragon radar. Hell, it's not even that hard for a mortal to awaken Ki or learn how to sense it. There is no good reason why a random smart dude can't use the scientific method to investigate Ki and become brokenly overpowered.

Click to shrink...

Shonen science is not comic book science. It might be quite literally impossible for someone to use science to achieve much of anything, because scientists don't struggle enough (physically and visibly for the audience, anyway) to "deserve" the power they'd gain according to the Japanese Spirit. I'd grab that genre convention and make it simply a rule of the universe. Who knows, maybe someone made a wish on the Dragonballs that only meatheads can ever be on top of the world?

5.) I can't create strong characters for my self-insert to interact with. If a character is strong, then they should have been chosen to participate in the tournament of power. If I create a strong character, I have to give a reason why they've been flying under the radar all this time. It feels convoluted, contrived and unnatural.

Click to shrink...

Are we ever told what the limits for the tournament of power were? Maybe they just didn't fit whatever those criteria were, or there was a participant limit or somesuch. Alternatively, maybe those people rose into that level of power during the tournament itself? I mean, all it'd take is for a Saiyan to go stand in the corner and shout for a few episodes to gain a major boost, it isn't like dumber shit hasn't happened in Dragonball.

The dragon-ball multiverse just isn't a good setting for a semi-serious fanfiction.

Click to shrink...

I mean... Yeah, it isn't. Dragonball isn't even a semi-serious setting, so writing a semi-serious fanfic of it will obviously be incredibly hard once you get into the meat of it.

 

[Amazon Climber]

As reveled in the manga you can still use basic bitch dragon balls to become stronger then ultra instinct Goku the cost being most of your life force which you can easily fix by stealing a dragon radar going to another planet and using theirs to give yourself immortality. Fuck universe seven has how many sets earth, namak, and cereal, not counting the black star ball's oh wait you don't have to do that earth Grant's two wishes

Click to shrink...

Making Dragon Ball Super interesting is absolutely beyond any Eternal Dragon's power.

 

[f0Ri5]

It might be quite literally impossible for someone to use science to achieve much of anything, because scientists don't struggle enough (physically and visibly for the audience, anyway) to "deserve" the power they'd gain according to the Japanese Spirit

Click to shrink...

I get that from my family, and I'm not even Japanese. It's a protestant thing, I think.

 

[FTR2017]

Well, you could always write your SI in Trunks's Bad Future timeline.

Plenty of challenge to be had, even more if the SI appears around the same time as the droids and manages to learn enough from the cast to become a knowledge jar to pass on his learning onto Trunks once he grows up enough.

 

[Nordicpain]

Which eventually fails as you get too strong for the Dragon balls to effect, running into the same problem.

Click to shrink...

Not really. You could wish to swap bodies with broly. You could wish to know all the fighting techniques in the universe. You could wish to have the highest IQ. Pretty easy to come up with some retarded wishes if you brainstorm for a bit.[/QUOTE]
None of those things are reasonable wishes to ask to a normal Dragon Ball you would have to get a Super Dragon Ball to do even one of those wishes

 

[Nitramy]

The dragon-ball multiverse just isn't a good setting for a semi-serious fanfiction. Perhaps it would be possible to do one if I went the AU route, but that's a lot of work when I wasn't planning on writing hardcore in the first place.

Click to shrink...

There already IS an alternate universe for Dragon Ball: the one where Future Trunks came from.

Have your story take place in a setting where "x event" instead of "y event" happened, plot out the divergence, and go from there.

 

[Stanley_Jeb]

None of those things are reasonable wishes to ask to a normal Dragon Ball you would have to get a Super Dragon Ball to do even one of those wishes

Click to shrink...

I dunno, the first one, yes, absolutely, but the latter wishes might fall into a similar category as immortality. Powerful, yes, but more of a skill than something which directly gives you bigger numbers, so I wouldn't be surprised if you could actually wish for it.

 

[rance47]

1) The best way so far that I saw, is either AU or just a default setting where dragon balls get destroyed early on after one use. If its a self insert you are already op as hell just by the virtue of being informed about everything. Also, no perma-wishes like immortality, if you are made into a living anomaly via Dragon Balls, then when we lose them it has to end, unless it was some kind of one time genetic manipulation. In which case - nothing beyond what Cell could do.

2) More of a pro than a con. You can make the side characters be whatever you like. Just insert persoanalities of some random characters from other series ic you are feeling lazy.

3) Focus on hedonism, or give MC some porn goal like restoring sayan popuation by breeding all of the female cast. Be a ruler of a planet with all the privelages and responsobilities that the virtue of being a walking talking mega nuke in terms of fire power provides.

4) Just embrace the fact that ALL geniuses in DBZ are either savants or high functioning autists, and yes that includes
Briefs family and Dr Gero. Bulma for example, litterally started the show by going on adventure to find a perfect D that would take her V-card. And that quest included going into the forest full of sentient dinosaurs on a bike, while possesing nothing more than a pistol. And she also used up all the ammo from thd pistol on a kid that she previously ran over.

5) Ditch the premise of tournaments of power on Earth. Either go and hunt powerfull pirates in space, or go for the remnants of Freezas old domain. There are bound to be some fucked over last option projects like Brolly here and there. Maybe even some of Freeza's additional relatives.

 

[f0Ri5]

1) The best way so far that I saw, is either AU or just a default setting where dragon balls get destroyed early on after one use. If its a self insert you are already op as hell just by the virtue of being informed about everything. Also, no perma-wishes like immortality, if you are made into a living anomaly via Dragon Balls, then when we lose them it has to end, unless it was some kind of one time genetic manipulation. In which case - nothing beyond what Cell could do.

2) More of a pro than a con. You can make the side characters be whatever you like. Just insert persoanalities of some random characters from other series ic you are feeling lazy.

3) Focus on hedonism, or give MC some porn goal like restoring sayan popuation by breeding all of the female cast. Be a ruler of a planet with all the privelages and responsobilities that the virtue of being a walking talking mega nuke in terms of fire power provides.

4) Just embrace the fact that ALL geniuses in DBZ are either savants or high functioning autists, and yes that includes
Briefs family and Dr Gero. Bulma for example, litterally started the show by going on adventure to find a perfect D that would take her V-card. And that quest included going into the forest full of sentient dinosaurs on a bike, while possesing nothing more than a pistol. And she also used up all the ammo from thd pistol on a kid that she previously ran over.

5) Ditch the premise of tournaments of power on Earth. Either go and hunt powerfull pirates in space, or go for the remnants of Freezas old domain. There are bound to be some fucked over last option projects like Brolly here and there. Maybe even some of Freeza's additional relatives.

Click to shrink...

I've been thinking about this fic for a while now, decided to make it DBZ/GT. Super introduced too much power creep and other bullshit, at least in GT I don't have to deal with all the god-level omnipotent shit and time patrol multiverse nonsense.

Also if he is inserted into a villian it would be a good excuse to have the z fighters keep the dballs away from him.

 

[Smurfpapa]

Honestly the end of frieza on namek was the end of the story for me, It brought the story full circle from frieza killing of the saians due a revolt led by goku's father and his son avenging him and liberating the galaxy of it's tyrant.
Honestly the reason that writers aren't willing to end thier stories and keep milking a dead cow has made me shy away from incomplete works now. Haven't watched or read asoiaf yet becausei don't know if it will be finished.

 

[epicene]

Honestly the end of frieza on namek was the end of the story for me, It brought the story full circle from frieza killing of the saians due a revolt led by goku's father and his son avenging him and liberating the galaxy of it's tyrant.

Click to shrink...

Makes sense that's where Toriyama originally wanted to end it before editors kept pushing him to carry on to the next storyline benchmark. If the rumors are to be believed, anyway.

 

[f0Ri5]

Honestly the end of frieza on namek was the end of the story for me, It brought the story full circle from frieza killing of the saians due a revolt led by goku's father and his son avenging him and liberating the galaxy of it's tyrant.
Honestly the reason that writers aren't willing to end thier stories and keep milking a dead cow has made me shy away from incomplete works now. Haven't watched or read asoiaf yet becausei don't know if it will be finished.

Click to shrink...

Super was a mess. Personally, I thought the cell saga was good, at least until halfway into it. I liked the androids and their connection to the RR army, I even liked cell, but I feel that something went wrong somewhere after cell was introduced.

The MJB saga was... i dunno. SSJ3 was a stupid transformation. Gohan was useless. Vegeta was useless. At least in the cell saga, gohan saved the day. In the MJB saga, we were back to goku doing all the heavy lifting again. I dunno, that one was bad.

Super is aweful. The animation is fugly. I preferred GT and I liked SJJ4 more than blue.

 

[S.I.N]

Super was a mess. Personally, I thought the cell saga was good, at least until halfway into it. I liked the androids and their connection to the RR army, I even liked cell, but I feel that something went wrong somewhere after cell was introduced.

The MJB saga was... i dunno. SSJ3 was a stupid transformation. Gohan was useless. Vegeta was useless. At least in the cell saga, gohan saved the day. In the MJB saga, we were back to goku doing all the heavy lifting again. I dunno, that one was bad.

Super is aweful. The animation is fugly. I preferred GT and I liked SJJ4 more than blue.

Click to shrink...

I just love how ridiculous Majin Buu was I say it was worth it because of that lot's of thing's ran to long but dbz had a solid end.
Super is meh it's a good spectacle that's about it

 

[epicene]

I prefer the story beats in Super to GT, to be honest.