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XF2 upgrade

Discussion in 'Suggestions & Bugs' started by Walkir, Oct 9, 2019.

  1. Jorin

    Jorin Mostly A Lurker

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    I really hope that we do though.
     
  2. Biigoh

    Biigoh Primordial Tanuki Moderator

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    There are people who still use Windows ME despite the absolute lack of support for over a decade.

    Everyone else laughs and think that's a crazy thing to do.

    It's kind of like that what you're wanting.
     
  3. MissileTeatime

    MissileTeatime By the power of Vaporware!

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    I get what you're saying, but in practice it's clearly not. Of the two status updates in this thread, one of them was cross-posted be a user and one was in direct response to that user's complaints as shared with the cross-post.
     
    macdjord and LurkingInTheDeceit like this.
  4. LurkingInTheDeceit

    LurkingInTheDeceit “Brave” explorer treading “New” land

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    (Also crossposting)
    I mean, I agree, but we don’t really have anything better. It’s at least on-topic to centralise requests for updates here, even if in practice it might not be answered, nor has that information been shown to be particularly reliable when answers do manifest.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2022
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  5. ultima333

    ultima333 Happy Sunflower Time Administrator

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    There's not been too much of an update in the past few weeks, Xon got a chance to do a chunk of prep work at the start of the month but his schedule has been packed otherwise. And unfortunately, we're basically beholden to his schedule.

    Wish I had better news, but I don't. :(
     
  6. MissileTeatime

    MissileTeatime By the power of Vaporware!

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    See, this kind of "work is proceeding in the background, at Xon Time" is the kind of thing I count as a status update.

    The other thing I would want to know is how many more such sessions it will take. Obviously any number you give could be wrong, or worse, misconstrued; but I'm picturing answers being like either "well, probably two or three more chunks" or "could be three chunks, could be thirty; we just don't know".
     
  7. ultima333

    ultima333 Happy Sunflower Time Administrator

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    Don't know how many, at least a few. Probably less than thirty.
     
  8. macdjord

    macdjord Well worn.

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    You'd get a lot less complaints if you just put out this sort of status update routinely.
     
    LurkingInTheDeceit likes this.
  9. ultima333

    ultima333 Happy Sunflower Time Administrator

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    Status update:
    Xon's schedule seems to be clearing up a bit more- he did a big chunk of work this weekend, we should have the 'test' XF2 site up Soon™
     
  10. Venumize

    Venumize The Tinker Based Taylor.

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    Question from someone that never ran a forum, besides not using software that is no longer updated what will XF2 bring for security purposes?

    Or is it legit "Nothing really, but 1 isn't updated any more so needs must"?
     
  11. UncleKai

    UncleKai Your first time is always over so quickly, isn't it?

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    The problem with no longer update is the security problem. The underlying software (Database, PHP, Webserver, etc.) needs updates to mitigate security risks that are constantly found. There is a point when you can't update these anymore because newer Versions will not run with old XF1 anymore. The latest release for XF1 was on May 29, 2019. That is a long time in software terms.
     
  12. Winchester

    Winchester Buzzkill

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    On top of the forum software security patches, the fact that the forum software itself isn't being updated means that a lot of the addons for Xenforo 1 have been abandoned as well, which means no updates for them either. Which means things like third party spam filters and bot blockers may no longer have up-to-date definitions, which means more work for human moderators.

    There are a few new features built into xenforo2 (2-factor authentification as an option, for example), and then of course a host of third party stuff that is actively being developed, some of which is security related.

    Then there's all the technical stuff that's invisible to the regular user, about how your data is managed etc.

    But mostly, it's about "Xenforo 1 is a leaky boat, and everyone stopped trying to fix it more than three years ago; Xenforo 2 is also a leaky boat, but at least people are still working on patching that. "
     
    Nicator, Walkir, searcher8 and 6 others like this.
  13. Jorin

    Jorin Mostly A Lurker

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    Pity.

    My main objection to Xen 2 is that it just looks as ugly as Hell.

    There are unofficial "patches" that do a good job if you know where to look.
     
  14. Darrenb209

    Darrenb209 Only way to survive is keeping your eyes on screen

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    Unofficial patches amount to using a potentially leaky bucket to bail out a leaky boat.

    They might work, but they're a risk.

    And while that risk can be mitigated, it is not a risk that a reasonable person should take unless absolutely and utterly necessary when dealing with things like websites, where if the potentially leaky bucket is actually leaky hundreds if not thousands of users suffer.

    And at the end of the day, better something that's ugly and functions well and securely than a site that looks nice and barely functions while being incredibly insecure.

    If I wanted the latter, I'd be running around advocating for companies like Electronic Arts or Google's recent changes.
     
    macdjord likes this.
  15. Jorin

    Jorin Mostly A Lurker

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    Don't mention such abominations against all nature!
     
    Darrenb209 likes this.
  16. Winchester

    Winchester Buzzkill

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    "Ugly" can be solved with a properly customized stylesheet. You can make a forum look like basically anything if you put in the work. The thing is, most forum admins don't really want to dummy out QoL features brought by a new version of the software so they can make it look like the old version, so things change. Deal with it.

    (It's not like XF2 is anything like Windows, where your options for UIs unless you're willing to dive into hell is "whatever Microsoft's designers think the UI should look like". Still miffed that I can't even move the taskbar around freely in 11 on my multi-monitor setup, where I kind of need it.)

    Do they really? Can you be 100% sure that "unofficial security patches" are what they say on the tin, and not vectors for introducing malware? 'cause you'll have to be a real codemonkey to figure out whether a patch is real or fake just from looking at it.

    Also, imagine there's a breech here, and someone has enough trouble during the fallout that they decide to sue the forum for not protecting their data better. Running on unsupported software with unofficial patches? That would make for a really good case that yes, the forum *could* have protected the data better, especially since there is a supported version with official patches.
     
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  17. CrossyCross

    CrossyCross LADY OF LOVE

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    As always, my main desire is that the QQ textbox is somehow kept. Or if someone can figure out how to preserve the textbox somewhere, because the functionality is perfect for me, and I hate the current SB textbox.

    For example, when I use fullscreen on it? In ends up falling far short of the whole screen.
    [​IMG]
    https://postimg.cc/jWcFq8vQ

    That ain't the whole screen, and it doesn't even show the word count, etc. It's SHIT.


    Or in general, the typing is not as responsive. QQ's textbox responds perfectly, there's no lag from activating bold or italics. SB and SV? They have that lag, meaning if I type without pause (and not even THAT fast, something like three letters per second is already enough to trigger this) while deactivating italics or bold, it fails to trigger the deactivation and I keep typing modified text, and such.
    How the fuck do you downgrade in functionality?!


    I can take a lot of changes assuming it's similar to what SB/SV will get. But god help me, please keep the textbox functional.
     
  18. Winchester

    Winchester Buzzkill

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    IIRC the editor is the result of some of the Xon-developed addons which needed custom code so they could be accessed from the editor. Not sure whether the admins here are springing for those addons or not. I've never really noticed the input lag (then again I seldom use keyboard shortcuts for formatting tags, I tend to type everything in manually when I actually need tags), and I don't use full screen basically ever because not using it gives a better representation of what the post will look like when finished, most of the time.

    Not sure why the SB version of the input box has the second scroll bar.
     
  19. MissileTeatime

    MissileTeatime By the power of Vaporware!

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    I seem to recall that the XF1 text box is actually a textbox html element, while the XF2-SB/SV text box is some sort of html contenteditable + JavaScript soup. But I don't remember how I arrived at that belief, so I'd have to double-check. I also don't know if that's specific to the "plain text mode" here, or it also applies to the "rich text mode".
     
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  20. macdjord

    macdjord Well worn.

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    The WYSIWYG rich-text editor - the default one, that, e.g., shows bold text as bold text rather than [b]bold text[/b] - is Javascript in both cases, though I think there's some significant differences in implementation. The BBCode editor is a plain textbox in both versions; QQ has some additional Javascript elements that let you, e.g., select a segment of text and hit the 'Bold' button to have the [b] tags added automatically, but AIUI that's a QQ extension; SB and SV didn't have it before the upgrade.
     
  21. MissileTeatime

    MissileTeatime By the power of Vaporware!

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    I definitely recall that whatever gave me the impression above, also gave me the impression that this was not the case on SB/SV+XF2.
     
  22. macdjord

    macdjord Well worn.

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    Huh. Just checked, and you're right; it's a <div> with contenteditable="true". It's still plaintext entry managed by the browser rather than a Javascript thing, though.
     
  23. tacobowl8

    tacobowl8 Know what you're doing yet?

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    As a user and mostly lurker, the biggest difference between XF2 implementations like on SB/SV and what we currently have on QQ with XF1 is that when you click on a user' avatar, the modal that pops up with the user info has a much larger avatar spot on QQ as opposed to SB/SV. In order to see a zoomed in version of an avatar on SB/SV (compared to at rest on a page), you have to go to that user's profile page which is a complete page transition away.

    Overall minor, but that is probably my biggest ask for something to be included/looked at when the XF2 upgrade happens.
     
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  24. MissileTeatime

    MissileTeatime By the power of Vaporware!

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    It's also not an option with some users. Sure most users have their userpage visible, but I've run into a steady handful who limit who may visit it.
     
  25. AztecCroc

    AztecCroc Know what you're doing yet?

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    Why is that even a thing anyway?
     
  26. Facepalmist

    Facepalmist Well, that happened...

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    A few reasons...
    - A plain 'n simple desire for privacy, especially lurkers who are basically just here to read shit behind the lewdwall and don't want to interact otherwise beyond dropping the odd Like.
    - A desire for less-restricted RP-ing on their profile pages, particularly that which is closer to the lewdline.
    - A desire to avoid abuse or continuation of arguments in their profile pages.
    - A desire to keep known-or-potential antagonists away from their IRL minutiae, if they happen to spill that kind of thing there.
    ...and also because that happens to be the long-existing setup, and thus doesn't have more fine-tuned options like, say, whitelisting or blacklisting specific members.
     
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  27. macdjord

    macdjord Well worn.

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    Any news on this?
     
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  28. Darrenb209

    Darrenb209 Only way to survive is keeping your eyes on screen

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    My money is on Slightly Sooner™
     
  29. macdjord

    macdjord Well worn.

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  30. Silvercrystal

    Silvercrystal That’s no Moon, It’s a Moderator! Moderator

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    AFAIK its all on Xon time™
    So hopefully before SB and SV need to update to XF3 but frankly what can one expect from a ARM Commander :V (referring to his avatar picture)