Zuko Self Insert or Second Son of Iroh?

[Metabolicjosh]

Avatar the Last Air Bender. If you could choose between reading a NSFW FF with a main character that is a Self Insert of Zuko or a Self Insert as a second (illegitimate) son of Uncle Iroh, which one would you prefer?

NSFW because seducing Azula, Ty Lee and Mai is a must. (Yeah; I know what I just suggested)

Alternatively, make them an orphan noble that stays in the palace. Genderbend Zuko or not?

I just want some thoughts for an old idea I had a while back.

Also, would you rather have a gamer system or expanded chi abilities? (non elemental Naruto techniques)

 

[Nerx]

Second son please, and do continue that man's badass workout routine while making impeccable tea.

 

[Alray12]

Interesting, so the choice is SI to Canon character and OC character right?

When will the insert happen?(which i mean when the SI realise he in the series right away or some times after growing up?)

For me, i prefer OC(illegitimate or orphan) for the Canon character interaction that will happen.

And while the gamer are cool, won't it be more interesting if the MC struggle a bit for his ability.
Because Gamer give extremely fast progress on skill which make honing some of them pretty easy but if you make it realistic enough (at least for the cast) then it fine?

Sorry if this don't make sense .my brain function still in power safe mode after no sleep day yesterday.

 

[Metabolicjosh]

Interesting, so the choice is SI to Canon character and OC character right?

When will the insert happen?(which i mean when the SI realise he in the series right away or some times after growing up?)

For me, i prefer OC(illegitimate or orphan) for the Canon character interaction that will happen.

And while the gamer are cool, won't it be more interesting if the MC struggle a bit for his ability.
Because Gamer give extremely fast progress on skill which make honing some of them pretty easy but if you make it realistic enough (at least for the cast) then it fine?

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It would depend on which option I write. If I write Zuko SI, then I would probably start the day after Ursa leaves in the middle of the night or the day that Ozai I crowned Fire Lord.

Actually, I would probably start that day regardless of the option.

If I made a gamer story it would not have massively fast progression.

 

[Alray12]

It would depend on which option I write. If I write Zuko SI, then I would probably start the day after Ursa leaves in the middle of the night or the day that Ozai I crowned Fire Lord.

Actually, I would probably start that day regardless of the option.

If I made a gamer story it would not have massively fast progression.

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Then when did the OC realise he in the series? If it was early like zuko pristine face early or late as AVATAR!!!! late?

Or maybe start before mako sudden vanish so you have time for first contact flag with innocence zuko and maybe innocence Azula (yes i write Azula name with capital because she is Azula).

And if i remember correctly Azula trio are childhood friend, so early start with them may help for seducing them later on.

 

[Metabolicjosh]

Then when did the OC realise he in the series? If it was early like zuko pristine face early or late as AVATAR!!!! late?

Or maybe start before mako sudden vanish so you have time for first contact flag with innocence zuko and maybe innocence Azula (yes i write Azula name with capital because she is Azula).

And if i remember correctly Azula trio are childhood friend, so early start with them may help for seducing them later on.

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Names should be capitalized regardless, so I'm not fully sure what you mean. Also, Azula was a bitch even at that age. (She pushed Ty Lee over)

He would know that he inserted into Avatar when it happens, when he wakes up in the world at the starting point in time. Its not an at birth reincarnation

 

[Alray12]

Names should be capitalized regardless, so I'm not fully sure what you mean. Also, Azula was a bitch even at that age. (She pushed Ty Lee over)

He would know that he inserted into Avatar when it happens, when he wakes up in the world at the starting point in time. Its not an at birth reincarnation

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Ah what i mean for some reason whenever i write character name i never use capital unless i conciouly try to write it like that but for some character i unconciously write it with capital, Azula was one of those character.

That why taming her at young age was important because when she is younger she still mallable or is that one of the fanon thing?(if it was Fanon then sorry)

Cool, so will he be clueless when he appear or will he have infodump moment.

Wait i forget to ask, is he a bender? Or will he became like mai and Ty lee which is a badass normal type.

 

[suikofan]

I say Zuko making an OC would complicate some things and not a gamer fic for the same reasons. If you went gamer that would be a lot of extra info for you to keep track of. Simplicity makes things simple

 

[AkumaOuja]

Second son is the immediately superior option. Zuko has too much baggage and has been done too many times to be interesting. More interesting to see how the dynamic between Iroh and another son of his and Zuko with a cousin, or Azula and a cousin, would work out.

 

[a guy1013]

Zuko advantage is you don't need to make a new name or oc if you follow canon to certain degree as I doubt you can be able to beat ozai at 12/13 in battle, disadvantage you limit yourself to zuko gens.

Oc advantage your limitless what you can do, disadvantage you need to limit yourself to make sure people will continue reading it.

I prefer the Zuko si,cause less hassle and you're less likely fight off assassination attempts by ozai

 

[SuperMod]

Zuko definitely.

a second child would have a huge influence on Iroh and his role as a father to Zuko, as well as his earlier traveling and white lotus membership

 

[a guy1013]

Zuko definitely.

a second child would have a huge influence on Iroh and his role as a father to Zuko, as well as his earlier traveling and white lotus membership

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True,and I agree with your choice ,but the reason,he will be more bloodthirsty instead of being more remorseful since losing his only kid made him see the perspective of his victim's

 

[Amanofmanytentacles]

I'd personally go with an SI Zuko, but not just any SI, an SI that has graduated from the Obi Wan school of snark and trolling. Granted this is more of a recipe for a non serious crack-ish story albeit with its serious moments. The image of Zuko chasing around the Gaang while acting like a card carrying villain or concocting some overly elaborate and convoluted scheme to trap them using fish or something. Sort of a crouching moron hidden badass type of guy, and when he turns into a good guy he makes Azula and fire nation looks the targets of his trolling

 

[Metabolicjosh]

I'd personally go with an SI Zuko, but not just any SI, an SI that has graduated from the Obi Wan school of snark and trolling. Granted this is more of a recipe for a non serious crack-ish story albeit with its serious moments. The image of Zuko chasing around the Gaang while acting like a card carrying villain or concocting some overly elaborate and convoluted scheme to trap them using fish or something. Sort of a crouching moron hidden badass type of guy, and when he turns into a good guy he makes Azula and fire nation looks the targets of his trolling

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This is definitely humorous, but not exactly what I had in mind.

 

[Delta/Soul]

Probably best to have it be a new character tbh

 

[AkumaOuja]

Probably best to have it be a new character tbh

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Again I have to agree. It's far more interesting and it's not like Iroh is suddenly going to be less traumatized if he still has a son after he lost the eldest, since I think I saw that argument.

 

[Metabolicjosh]

Again I have to agree. It's far more interesting and it's not like Iroh is suddenly going to be less traumatized if he still has a son after he lost the eldest, since I think I saw that argument.

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Yeah. Also, if people really have an issue with that we can side step that by making the main character the child of a hypothetical third sibling to Iroh and Ozai, one that died, so that Iroh is still his uncle, but that Zuko and Azula are still cousins.

 

[AkumaOuja]

Yeah. Also, if people really have an issue with that we can side step that by making the main character the child of a hypothetical third sibling to Iroh and Ozai, one that died, so that Iroh is still his uncle, but that Zuko and Azula are still cousins.

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A bit heavy of a start in terms of making changes but there's a lot of narrative potential to mine out of "First born of a dead third prince" in terms of interesting dynamics there. Workable and the like.

 

[Metabolicjosh]

A bit heavy of a start in terms of making changes but there's a lot of narrative potential to mine out of "First born of a dead third prince" in terms of interesting dynamics there. Workable and the like.

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Yeah it completely avoids the problems with a Zuko SI, being that the existing dynamic is... vaguely defined. We don't know how often he would meet with his father or sister, but a first born of the third sibling would be someone that is well take care of but not often included in much until he shows potential of Iroh latches onto him emotionally. Gives wiggle room to set the narrative comparatively.

I'll be going with this most likely.

I'm still unsure about the whole Ninjutsu or Gamer aspect though. They both allow for illusions, in theory, which is important.

 

[AkumaOuja]

Yeah it completely avoids the problems with a Zuko SI, being that the existing dynamic is... vaguely defined. We don't know how often he would meet with his father or sister, but a first born of the third sibling would be someone that is well take care of but not often included in much until he shows potential of Iroh latches onto him emotionally. Gives wiggle room to set the narrative comparatively.

I'll be going with this most likely.

I'm still unsure about the whole Ninjutsu or Gamer aspect though. They both allow for illusions, in theory, which is important.

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In complete and absolute seriousness. I'd ask yourself seriously if they really contribute and if there isn't a better way existing in universe to accomplish what you're want.

If you just want an illusionary element, might I make a suggestion?

Spirits exist in Avatar and are supremely under utilized and, IIRC, after Lu Ten died I believe Iroh went on a bit of a lark that involved meeting them? I may be confused. Regardless, they often have illusionary powers. Build up to it over the course of a fic.

Consider starting it out with a trick of fire bending, causing smoke and heat haze to cause confusion and the like, and have it build into proper illusions possibly via learning from a spirit at some point along the way. In the hypothetical scenario of "a third son of Azulon is your dad and died" maybe you could have him have had a thing about learning about the Spirits and the Spirit world because as a third son nobody cared if he just fucked around with that kind of thing since his father had an heir and a spare already. Which would give you a start on that.

Firebending is stupidly versatile anyway, arguably the most so of any form of bending because of all the stupid bullshit one can do with "I can create my element wherever and also dude I demonstrably can manipulate fucking heat by exciting the fuck out of atoms with kung-fu" as see with things like combustion man and lightning bending. Theoretically fire bending could mimic any other form of bending, you could fake being the fucking avatar in theory. Not that I'd suggest it for this fic.

Because I'll be entirely honest I can't say that, in this case, Ninjutsu or Gamer powers actually add anything. you already have A. An extremely strong selling point in the form of an ATLA SI fic which is actually quite rare with the obvious reader bait of Azula's team, and B. are already kind of lining up the metaphorical unicorns in your garden to an extent with the initial premise. Anything more will kind of just be messy, in my opinion.

 

[a guy1013]

For adding extra stuff to atla seems,lazy as you can just do you own research on the world and see if what you want is already there if not don't, unless you really want it.

Now we are having a debate between Zuko si vs Oc si
Zuko is for you to have less hassle in world building as an oc will cause you to explain like who and where the oc came from within the prologue which for me just added fat,not meat which I want in my stories it's okay to have some gat to give taste,but too much will make it too unhealthy.

Oc advantage is being more freeing and possibly using already existing characters like the twins,you can just say one of them got pregnant and is the oc mother since they're more or less the same gen as Iroh give or take 5 or so years ,but it will give you hassle and you must create from nothing yet at the same make that nothing exist seamlessly within the world

 

[Dakkaface]

Avatar the Last Air Bender. If you could choose between reading a NSFW FF with a main character that is a Self Insert of Zuko or a Self Insert as a second (illegitimate) son of Uncle Iroh, which one would you prefer?

NSFW because seducing Azula, Ty Lee and Mai is a must. (Yeah; I know what I just suggested)

Alternatively, make them an orphan noble that stays in the palace. Genderbend Zuko or not?

I just want some thoughts for an old idea I had a while back.

Also, would you rather have a gamer system or expanded chi abilities? (non elemental Naruto techniques)

Click to shrink...

I'd rather see a new character, but if Iroh has a second son, is he going to go to pieces when Lu Ten kicks it when he has another dependent? Being Iroh's second son derails crucial character development for him. I think if you were going to go this route, you should be Iroh's bastard. Or go one better and make him Lu Ten's bastard. His age in undetermined, but old enough to be serving in the army while Azula is what, 9? If he's in his mid 20's, it's concievable that he could have had a teenage dalliance that resulted in a bastard of age to be in Azula's cohort.

For the love of God and good taste, do not write a Gamer fic. It's too easy to fuck up the balance of story to rules, and you're going to get bogged down in numbers. On top of that, Gamers Mind and Gamers Body severely limit the sources of tension you can use.

I'd avoid using Naruto ninjutsu either. Part of the really great thing about Avatar's universe is that the power system has some simple hard rules and builds well on them. As already noted, Spirits are underused. Have a spirit follow him around and help him out. Figure out a niche bending ability or combination and leverage it. Learn chi blocking and combine it with Azula's jet powered mobility to blitz other benders. Hide knives behind dazzling flares. Cheat with modern knowledge of electromagnetism and sidestep your lightning being redirected by doing a Railgun impression. All of this would be more interesting that a cheap crowbarred power cross.

 

[a guy1013]

I'd rather see a new character, but if Iroh has a second son, is he going to go to pieces when Lu Ten kicks it when he has another dependent? Being Iroh's second son derails crucial character development for him. I think if you were going to go this route, you should be Iroh's bastard. Or go one better and make him Lu Ten's bastard. His age in undetermined, but old enough to be serving in the army while Azula is what, 9? If he's in his mid 20's, it's concievable that he could have had a teenage dalliance that resulted in a bastard of age to be in Azula's cohort.

For the love of God and good taste, do not write a Gamer fic. It's too easy to fuck up the balance of story to rules, and you're going to get bogged down in numbers. On top of that, Gamers Mind and Gamers Body severely limit the sources of tension you can use.

I'd avoid using Naruto ninjutsu either. Part of the really great thing about Avatar's universe is that the power system has some simple hard rules and builds well on them. As already noted, Spirits are underused. Have a spirit follow him around and help him out. Figure out a niche bending ability or combination and leverage it. Learn chi blocking and combine it with Azula's jet powered mobility to blitz other benders. Hide knives behind dazzling flares. Cheat with modern knowledge of electromagnetism and sidestep your lightning being redirected by doing a Railgun impression. All of this would be more interesting that a cheap crowbarred power cross.

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Finally someone who agrees adding non atla stuff is weird

 

[AkumaOuja]

Finally someone who agrees adding non atla stuff is weird

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Normally, i would note that it can be done well, but it's unnecessary here and would likely detract from the story. As I said above. OP already has a strong as hell hook right out the gate. No need to muddle the core concept.

I'd rather see a new character, but if Iroh has a second son, is he going to go to pieces when Lu Ten kicks it when he has another dependent? Being Iroh's second son derails crucial character development for him. I think if you were going to go this route, you should be Iroh's bastard. Or go one better and make him Lu Ten's bastard. His age in undetermined, but old enough to be serving in the army while Azula is what, 9? If he's in his mid 20's, it's concievable that he could have had a teenage dalliance that resulted in a bastard of age to be in Azula's cohort.

For the love of God and good taste, do not write a Gamer fic. It's too easy to fuck up the balance of story to rules, and you're going to get bogged down in numbers. On top of that, Gamers Mind and Gamers Body severely limit the sources of tension you can use.

I'd avoid using Naruto ninjutsu either. Part of the really great thing about Avatar's universe is that the power system has some simple hard rules and builds well on them. As already noted, Spirits are underused. Have a spirit follow him around and help him out. Figure out a niche bending ability or combination and leverage it. Learn chi blocking and combine it with Azula's jet powered mobility to blitz other benders. Hide knives behind dazzling flares. Cheat with modern knowledge of electromagnetism and sidestep your lightning being redirected by doing a Railgun impression. All of this would be more interesting that a cheap crowbarred power cross.

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Very strong points and I have to broadly agree.

 

[SuperMod]

Personally I really like the idea of the si being the son of a third brother to Iroh and Ozai. If you want an external power that meshes well with atla, then Kaze no stigma is a good bet. Single element benders air, fire, earth, water but they can be blessed by the spirits of their element and given unique abilities, like fire that only burns what the wielder wants, or adding a purifying/exorcising nature to an element.

A truly exceptional bender, one in a thousand years rare, can make a contract with the King/ruler spirit of an element and be their representative in the mortal world. They have something like an Avatar state for their element and they can suppress the abilities of other benders of their element

 

[a guy1013]

Personally I really like the idea of the si being the son of a third brother to Iroh and Ozai. If you want an external power that meshes well with atla, then Kaze no stigma is a good bet. Single element benders air, fire, earth, water but they can be blessed by the spirits of their element and given unique abilities, like fire that only burns what the wielder wants, or adding a purifying/exorcising nature to an element.

A truly exceptional bender, one in a thousand years rare, can make a contract with the King/ruler spirit of an element and be their representative in the mortal world. They have something like an Avatar state for their element and they can suppress the abilities of other benders of their element

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This makes sense and if the mc can duel bend as you can have a natural element from atla and you can make a pact with another spirit of another element

 

[Metabolicjosh]

While that is interesting, duel bending is not what I had in mind. Allow me to suggest a couple of spirits that he could be possessed by temporally or merge with permanently.

The first and perhaps most interesting option, in my opinion, is to become a spirit and then possess his empty body. Iroh became a spirit between the two shows, and we know that spirit is can maintain control of the body they possess. (Lemur guy did that in LOK)

The second option is to have the main character lost in the Fog of Lost Souls at some point. Perhaps before he reincarnates, which we would learn in a flashback, or when he travels to the spirit world to look for a spirit that will help him.

The third option is to make up some lesser spirit that happens to be of the exact domain that our main character is eventually going to use. (Perhaps even a former human that became a spirit.)

The last option is not one that I personally like very much, but he might be able to create an artificial spirit by bending the spirit energy at the North or South Pole.

 

[AkumaOuja]

While that is interesting, duel bending is not what I had in mind. Allow me to suggest a couple of spirits that he could be possessed by temporally or merge with permanently.

The first and perhaps most interesting option, in my opinion, is to become a spirit and then possess his empty body. Iroh became a spirit between the two shows, and we know that spirit is can maintain control of the body they possess. (Lemur guy did that in LOK)

The second option is to have the main character lost in the Fog of Lost Souls at some point. Perhaps before he reincarnates, which we would learn in a flashback, or when he travels to the spirit world to look for a spirit that will help him.

The third option is to make up some lesser spirit that happens to be of the exact domain that our main character is eventually going to use. (Perhaps even a former human that became a spirit.)

The last option is not one that I personally like very much, but he might be able to create an artificial spirit by bending the spirit energy at the North or South Pole.

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The second or third are probably the best options. But by far "when he travels to the spirit world to look for a spirit that will help him." is the best one. That's a story arc right there.

That said you'd need to build a justification for why he feels the need to do this in universe. What's the problem that's big enough to say "Hey you know those asshole spirits? I need to get one to help me out", unless the argument is "Ozai scares me that much" which is entirely legitimate.

 

[PlasticSoldier]

A second son of Iroh would be interesting even if it wasn't an insert.

 

[Metabolicjosh]

I find myself fascinated by the potential mystical exploration that someone could make in an Avatar story. Chi or Qi is basically Chakra from Naruto without Elemental or Shape manipulations, and Bending expands upon that base, giving someone a fixed Element that they can make Shape manipulations upon.
Yin-Yang energies make it up and can be split into their constituent parts like in Naruto, as seen by the method to bend lightning.
Chi extends the lifespan.
It seems to have a lot in common with Naruto, Dragon Ball, and potentially Touki from DxD and Mushoku Tensei.
Apparently, it is possible to steal Chi from another person.
Oh, and energy bending is when reading carefully, the ability to make an elemental manipulation within the self or another, given that it is the technique used by Lion Turtles to give bending to people in the first place. Basically, if you had energy bending you could theoretically switch bending styles if you knew what to do. Sensory techniques exist, as seen by Toph looking for the Chi of other individuals across the world.