General KPop Demon Hunters things

[htgriffin]

Seems to have come up a bit on the Story Rants thread, so....

---

Just a random thought: I notice a lot of people speak of Bobby as a father figure to HUNTR/X but... am I the only one who has a lot of trouble picturing the dude as even pushing forty? More likely 10-12 years Rumi's senior, old enough not to be blown off reflexively when yelling at network heads but only just.

 

[LEGENDARYNOT]

I saw a portrayals of him as a former idol, don't actually know if it's canon or not

 

[S.I.N]

Seems to have come up a bit on the Story Rants thread, so....

---

Just a random thought: I notice a lot of people speak of Bobby as a father figure to HUNTR/X but... am I the only one who has a lot of trouble picturing the dude as even pushing forty? More likely 10-12 years Rumi's senior, old enough not to be blown off reflexively when yelling at network heads but only just.

Click to shrink...

Bobby is 34 apparently but it's probably because his VA is ken jong so you imagine him older.

But yes he would be closer to a older brother then dad but it's understandable why people feel that way dude has dad energy.

 

[Soupervan]

Never heard of this one before but demons going after celebrities- perhaps because they have more faith energy than priests in modern times- and the demon hunters turning it around on them by training up the celebrities to fight them seems like an amazing idea.

 

[cliffc999]

It's more that there's a Korean shamanic tradition of using ceremonial music and dancing to cast protective rituals over villages, and over the generations one line of demon hunters has consistently trained their successors to be entertainers because the larger the audiences, the more the rituals scale up. The latest generation are Huntrix, a three girl kpop band who are one of the most famous acts in the world, so they are cranking more power than any of their predecessors and will soon make the protective barrier that keeps demons out of the human realm impenetrable.

So the demons embark on a desperate plan, and that's the plot of the movie.

Admittedly the girls also have anime martial arts and fight demons with magic lightsabers but hey, why not.

 

[cliffc999]

An observation about the final scene that isn't directly lampshaded on-screen, but notably recontextualizes both the backstage confrontation and the final showdown.

From AO3, in the comments of the fic 'Perennial'

All of What It Sound Like is just INFINITELY softer when you remember that MIRA AND ZOEY DON'T KNOW. They CANNOT POSSIBLY know Rumi's backstory; they reacted badly in the first place because of the intensely condemning patterns, and Rumi was in no place to explain.

They think they're forgiving her for betraying every ideal they ever fought for and selling her soul to the demon king and lying to them to cover it up, and the moment she comes back for them, they forgive her anyway.

Click to shrink...

Because Rumi never got the chance to tell them that she was only half-demon, remember? As far as they know, that's not even a possibility. The only explanation within Mira and Zoey's scope of knowledge for how a person they've known for years can suddenly have patterns is if she's done a deal with Gwi-Ma, a la Jinu's deal.

No wonder they reach for it. No wonder they emotionally collapse so hard afterwards, as soon as Rumi's run and it sinks into them just how wrong things have gone. That scene hits entirely differently once you realize that Mira and Zoey aren't reacting badly to finding out their friend is mixed-race, they're horrified that apparently one of the people they've trusted more than anyone else in the world has betrayed them.

And they still reconnect with Rumi the instant she looks like she's fighting against Gwi-Ma now, they just wanted their sister back that much. Yeah, that scene's one for the onion ninjas.

The reaction for when they find out later that Rumi never actually did anything wrong and this whole mess is only because Celine raised Rumi with the worst mental health advice ever is probably going to be epic, though.

Rumi: Mira, what are you doing?
Mira: (manifesting her spirit weapon) I just want to talk to her.

 

[S.I.N]

An observation about the final scene that isn't directly lampshaded on-screen, but notably recontextualizes both the backstage confrontation and the final showdown.

From AO3, in the comments of the fic 'Perennial'



Because Rumi never got the chance to tell them that she was only half-demon, remember? As far as they know, that's not even a possibility. The only explanation within Mira and Zoey's scope of knowledge for how a person they've known for years can suddenly have patterns is if she's done a deal with Gwi-Ma, a la Jinu's deal.

No wonder they reach for it. No wonder they emotionally collapse so hard afterwards, as soon as Rumi's run and it sinks into them just how wrong things have gone. That scene hits entirely differently once you realize that Mira and Zoey aren't reacting badly to finding out their friend is mixed-race, they're horrified that apparently one of the people they've trusted more than anyone else in the world has betrayed them.

And they still reconnect with Rumi the instant she looks like she's fighting against Gwi-Ma now, they just wanted their sister back that much. Yeah, that scene's one for the onion ninjas.

The reaction for when they find out later that Rumi never actually did anything wrong and this whole mess is only because Celine raised Rumi with the worst mental health advice ever is probably going to be epic, though.

Rumi: Mira, what are you doing?
Mira: (manifesting her spirit weapon) I just want to talk to her.

Click to shrink...

Yeah their reaction to why Rumi is so mentally fucked up is not going to be pretty it's clear from their joking around about how theirs no chance in hell they would actually ask Celine for help with rumi voice that the girls don't like dealing with her on serious situations so yeah this would probably be of fucking course this is Celine fault.

 

[S.I.N]

Actually no I need to focus on that for a bit.

Can we process how fucked up that actually is that Zoey and Mira both immediately came to the conclusion they wouldn't want to ask Celine for help? This is supposed to essentially be Rumi mother a retired idol and their mentor and rumi being possibly sick and losing her voice they say we are not telling her asking her for help and will hide this is such a fucking red flag it's not even funny.

 

[cliffc999]

To be fair the girls had already rejected the option of simply cancelling performances until Rumi eventually recovered, which would almost certainly be Celine's advice as well. So it doesn't have to be 'they considered her absolutely horrid', it could be the simpler 'the children are not telling the parental unit about the problem because they already know what the parent would order them to do and they don't want to do it'.

 

[htgriffin]

Yeah their reaction to why Rumi is so mentally fucked up is not going to be pretty it's clear from their joking around about how theirs no chance in hell they would actually ask Celine for help with rumi voice that the girls don't like dealing with her on serious situations so yeah this would probably be of fucking course this is Celine fault.

Click to shrink...

"Cover up and mask any problems" is also a habit/mindset Celine instilled in her students all too well. The whole thing about not just announcing that Rumi needs to recover for a bit came from the same place as not bugging their old instructor about something that they think can be dealt with privately.

 

[S.I.N]

To be fair the girls had already rejected the option of simply cancelling performances until Rumi eventually recovered, which would almost certainly be Celine's advice as well. So it doesn't have to be 'they considered her absolutely horrid', it could be the simpler 'the children are not telling the parental unit about the problem because they already know what the parent would order them to do and they don't want to do it'.

Click to shrink...

I don't think they saw her as horrid if anything beyond the hide your faults I think Celine seems for what we seen as a okay mentor. I definitely never got a vibe of she's horrible to anyone even Rumi hell while I definitely don't like her I do think even she's ashamed of herself for not being able to except Rumi like she's sounds like she's in just as much pain as Rumi when they have that confrontation.

 

[htgriffin]

I definitely never got a vibe of she's horrible to anyone even Rumi hell while I definitely don't like her I do think even she's ashamed of herself for not being able to except Rumi like she's sounds like she's in just as much pain as Rumi when they have that confrontation.

Click to shrink...

The idea some people have tossed around concerning her ending up an adversary* in the quite possible sequel falls apart on the last few seconds we see of her. They way she dropped to her knees came off as very much "I fucked up bad and I know it."

(*: If Gwi Ma is still metaphorically kicking and get his hooks into her, all bets are obviously off)

 

[cliffc999]

Hell's bells, if Celine were an adversary to Rumi then Rumi would be dead already. Rumi literally handed a sword to Celine and begged her for an execution, and Celine categorically rejected the very notion. Celine will not willingly hurt Rumi even if she's afraid Rumi is going full demon and the Honmoon might collapse if Rumi continued to stay alive to damage it, we already saw her make that choice in canon.

The problem is that the old bat is also the patron saint of Failed Asian Moms and so did a tremendous amount of emotional damage to Rumi without intending to, but the idea of her being Rumi's willing adversary is absurd.

One of the more evocative fanfic oneshots I've seen, that I can't recall the title of, was a bit where Celine was frantically driving to Seoul after Rumi teleported away... and the Honmoon rebooted itself before she finished getting there. And Celine's initial moment of relief suddenly faded away to horror when she came to the conclusion that this meant Mira and Zoey had repaired the Honmoon by taking down Demon Rumi. So she just collapses, because Rumi has died and it's All Her Fault. But she eventually goes to Seoul because she feels she owes the other girls an explanation from her own mouth as to why it was necessary for them to fight and kill their friend.

The expression on Celine's face when Rumi opens the door was heartbreaking and while it was leading to the most awkward conversation in the history of conversations, nobody was actually unhappy for her to be there.

(add) Ah, found it.

(this ain't no) Easy Love - DarkHunter - KPop Demon Hunters (2025) [Archive of Our Own]

An Archive of Our Own, a project of the Organization for Transformative Works

archiveofourown.org

 

[htgriffin]

The problem is that the old bat is also the patron saint of Failed Asian Moms and so did a tremendous amount of emotional damage to Rumi without intending to, but the idea of her being Rumi's willing adversary is absurd.

Click to shrink...

I was going for a theme/angle akin to that and Darkhunter's tale with my Peggy Sue attempt. You know, come to think of it....

Also yes, I am making it up as I go along and have likely already written myself into a corner in terms of making things noticeably worse than canon for any of those concerned.

Click to shrink...

... while I cannot call that last bit a lie I did think of something. Celine again has just about no hard data to go on as to what was going on with HUNTR/X in general and Rumi in particular over the weeks she was looped back to do damage control on. The last time she saw Rumi, the girl has mutated into a creature with a clawed hand, a golden eye, and the power to shred the Honmoon without even thinking... and for all Celine knows this is an inevitable end state that _will_ happen quite shortly.

Celine cares about the clear to her and present danger, yes. Enough to attempt a crash course in commanding unholy powers neither she nor Rumi comprehend for she sake of making certain she can actually shut them off. However she knows what takes priority between Rumi's well being and that of the Honmoon even if she cannot quite make herself trust either Mira or Zoey to agree if it really came down to it (yes, we know how the Honmoon was restored in the old timeline, but Celine had hung herself by then and was on the wrong end of the RoK anyway)

 

[S.I.N]

So I like jinu but I do think people need to remember that he absolutely was taking advantage of Rumi I've seen a slight trend a small one where Mira and Zoey are mad at Rumi for trusting a stranger over them in fanfiction this is not the case he took advantage of her I've only seen one fic that actually has Zoey immediately point this out when she Rumi tells her about their meeting and she goes no that's abuser behavior and her and Mira get extremely pissed they only really drop it because he did die to save her but they both looked at each other and understood this dude fucked with their girls head.

 

[htgriffin]

So I like jinu but I do think people need to remember that he absolutely was taking advantage of Rumi I've seen a slight trend a small one where Mira and Zoey are mad at Rumi for trusting a stranger over them in fanfiction this is not the case he took advantage of her I've only seen one fic that actually has Zoey immediately point this out when she Rumi tells her about their meeting and she goes no that's abuser behavior and her and Mira get extremely pissed they only really drop it because he did die to save her but they both looked at each other and understood this dude fucked with their girls head.

Click to shrink...

A number of people really gravitated towards the 'love across the battlefield' theme here, and while there is much stronger emotional basis over the course or the show (especially by Free) than to pick an already common analogy Zutara 9_9 Jinu was very much a manipulative user consciously taking advantage of a woman's emotional vulnerabilities in order to sacrifice everything she loves to the King of Demons. Dude has a bit more of an uphill struggle to rebuild a relationship with Rumi than Celine does....

---

My take on another A:tLA analogy summarized:

View: https://www.tumblr.com/ly0nstea/794567538800492544/rumi-putting-a-stolen-valour-sticker-on-azula?source=share

Even Celine simps such as myself cannot see Ursa as even in the same Parental Malpractice Time Zone

---

Belated:

The last time I saw anybody hit this peak was when Luke Skywalker, against all sanity, common sense, and galactic history, still sincerely believed there was good left in Darth Vader... and Rumi doesn't even have the emotional connection of 'That's my father over there, I have to believe in him'.

Click to shrink...

I still consider the funniest-in-the-gratuitously-mean-spirited-sense thing they could do for the sequel would be to confirm, or even hint, that Jinu was Gwi-Ma's go-to jeoseung saja for outside the box anti Hunter plots for a while now (he always makes certain the guy does not ever recall enough to make explicit which memories he wants erased in return for his efforts). Last stunt, of course, was to drop an Apple of Discord among the Sunlight Sisters....

"Gwi-Ma? You still down there, buddy? I heard you had a knack with memories, how much is wiping the whole 'thirsting after my own dad' bit worth to you?"

 

[cliffc999]

"Gwi-Ma? You still down there, buddy? I heard you had a knack with memories, how much is wiping the whole 'thirsting after my own dad' bit worth to you?"

Click to shrink...

Mira: "Don't do it, Rumi!"
Rumi: "Mira, I love that you have faith in my essential goodness, but it's misplaced! I will entirely sell my soul to get rid of this knowledge!"
Mira: "We could definitely debate the morality of that decision but I'm actually willing to make allowances for mental duress here. Unfortunately, the point is moot - Gwi-Ma can't erase your memories of... those events... no matter how hard he tries. You'd only be selling your soul for nothing."
Gwi-Ma: "Insolent wench! You dare doubt my power?"
Mira: "It's not a doubt, it's an absolute certainty... that nothing short of Rumi murdering her own teammate could stop Zoey from reminding her about 'Hey, remember that one time you were thirsting for your demon dad like Luke not knowing Leia was his sister?' at every opportunity."
Zoey: "I can neither confirm nor deny that I already have five notebooks full of RPF on the topic!"
Rumi: *screams like she's back onstage at the Idol Awards at the climax of 'Takedown'*

 

[htgriffin]

On an internal fandom feud:

It is wholly possible to look at a scene and recognize a woman prioritizing the safety and well being of her grown foster daughter over everything up to and including the not-so-proverbial Gates of Hell coming off their only-somewhat-more-proverbial hinges right in front of them, whilst at the same time go "Stop. Talking. Just stop. Your various Mental Malfunctions are a good chunk of the reason she has gotten to this point and you are making things worse!"

It is also possible to recognize a man getting gaslit into a no-win situation by the devil he sold his soul to and has had access to serious psychological thumbscrews to use for the last few centuries, while also acknowledging said man as the mastermind behind and chief implementatior of an Evil Plan which racked up a considerable kill count in the process of blowing the not-so-proverbial Gates of Hell off their only-somewhat-more-proverbial hinges.

It is far less possible to equate the two, set alone call the former the worse of the two.

That is all.

 

[Dakkaface]

On an internal fandom feud:

It is wholly possible to look at a scene and recognize a woman prioritizing the safety and well being of her grown foster daughter over everything up to and including the not-so-proverbial Gates of Hell coming off their only-somewhat-more-proverbial hinges right in front of them, whilst at the same time go "Stop. Talking. Just stop. Your various Mental Malfunctions are a good chunk of the reason she has gotten to this point and you are making things worse!"

It is also possible to recognize a man getting gaslit into a no-win situation by the devil he sold his soul to and has had access to serious psychological thumbscrews to use for the last few centuries, while also acknowledging said man as the mastermind behind and chief implementatior of an Evil Plan which racked up a considerable kill count in the process of blowing the not-so-proverbial Gates of Hell off their only-somewhat-more-proverbial hinges.

It is far less possible to equate the two, set alone call the former the worse of the two.

That is all.

Click to shrink...

Its fully the Umbridge Effect. The combination of how peronally the badness hits plus the divide between assigned role and exhibited behavior is what causes that.

1.) Nobody knows an evil demon that ran a plot to eat the souls of tens of thousands while manipulating a popular musician. That's an out there thing to conceptualize. A very large percentage of people have, have observed, or at least read about shitty parents fucking up thier kids into needing therapy or wanting to kill themselves. It hits much closer to home and carries more emotional weight.

2) Jinu is an demon doing demon things. Him doing evil demon things is expected. Its his job. We celebrate him because he has the role of a villain and choses to do some good with it. Celine is Rumi's guardian and parent figure. We expect a parent to love and protect their child. It's her job. That she fucked up Rumi so badly means she did her job poorly. We get mad because she had a role of parent and mentor and did bad things to Rumi with it.

EDIT: I personally don't think Celine is the worse person. Jinu dies because that is easier than actively fighting Gwi-ma and his former allies, easier than having to take accountability for 400 years of shitty behavior. But I still acknowledge that Celine fucked up a perfectly good child regardless of any good intentions. Jinu helped Rumi by just being willing to talk, and his final decision was still objectively good.

 

[htgriffin]

EDIT: I personally don't think Celine is the worse person. Jinu dies because that is easier than actively fighting Gwi-ma and his former allies, easier than having to take accountability for 400 years of shitty behavior. But I still acknowledge that Celine fucked up a perfectly good child regardless of any good intentions. Jinu helped Rumi by just being willing to talk, and his final decision was still objectively good.

Click to shrink...

None of these are points I am willing to dispute it is the whole "Celine is the actual villain and never loved Rumi" side of things combined with the "Jinu never did anything wrong that was not Gwi-Ma's direct action" faction that irritates me

 

[S.I.N]

One thing I do have a issue with about Celine In fanfiction is people lean towards one extreme or the other she's either completely evil or actually trying to be a good mom and that's fine the issue I tend to have with good takes on Celine is I notice most people seem to think this stop Rumi from resenting her for fuck up it's valid for Celine to have just made mistakes due to her own issues this is no way takes away from the fact she did hurt Rumi a lot mean well or not that hurt Is there I and Rumi still not wanting to deal with her or cut her out her life is absolutely fair.

 

[htgriffin]

Rumi from resenting her for fuck up it's valid for Celine to have just made mistakes due to her own issues this is no way takes away from the fact she did hurt Rumi a lot mean well or not that hurt Is there

Click to shrink...

If you have an Ao3 Account I reccomend 'love all of me' by ChaseAphrodite & L3t_U5_D0_That_Aga1n. A good take on Celine's panic, additional communication issues, failure to swallow how much of Rumi's damage is her own fault, and....

... well, let us just say that late night doomscrolling suicide prevention links would be a poor substitute for talking even when not skirting one's own nervous breakdown. Reading Bobby in may help too.

 

[S.I.N]

If you have an Ao3 Account I reccomend 'love all of me' by ChaseAphrodite & L3t_U5_D0_That_Aga1n. A good take on Celine's panic, additional communication issues, failure to swallow how much of Rumi's damage is her own fault, and....

... well, let us just say that late night doomscrolling suicide prevention links would be a poor substitute for talking even when not skirting one's own nervous breakdown. Reading Bobby in may help too.

Click to shrink...

I know what I was supposed to read but I'm stuck on the one where jinu is stuck in Court era and unintentionally shiting on Zoey while saying Mira is clearly rumis husband.

 

[S.I.N]

I love me some Polytrix fanfiction but holy shit do I get tired of angst or the writers cutting down on how fucking goofy the girl's are in reading tax evasion a jinu/Rumi fic and it keeps everyone genuinely goofy and serious.

 

[htgriffin]

It is amusing when one stumbles over tumble posts that are valid fanfic seeds. Case in point:

View: https://www.tumblr.com/faelyn42/796206221764018176/lol-could-you-imagine-like-theyre-all-probably?source=share