A Vista of the Void [Worm/Familiar of Zero Xover]

[Xilph]

Isn't ZnT world significantly more advanced than 1200s era? Most of the numbers I find indicate it's more like another 40 years after reaching 21, at least as early as the 1500s. The world seems to be missing a good few of the big issues of back then too, although how things like disease actually translate is tricky when they have the generally lighter world without plagues lurking in every shadowed corner or whatever. Really does look like 50-60 was the norm for 21+ for at least a period of several hundred years though.

 

[kifflomx]

That's assuming their day has the same amount of minutes/hours as ours, of course.

Click to shrink...

I get it that Saito is a moron but if the hours were shorter to compensate even he would notice, if for nothing else then because his sleep patterns would keep getting disrupted.

Isn't ZnT world significantly more advanced than 1200s era? Most of the numbers I find indicate it's more like another 40 years after reaching 21, at least as early as the 1500s. The world seems to be missing a good few of the big issues of back then too, although how things like disease actually translate is tricky when they have the generally lighter world without plagues lurking in every shadowed corner or whatever. Really does look like 50-60 was the norm for 21+ for at least a period of several hundred years though.

Click to shrink...

Going from the back to basics SB thread, 17th century at least, with some technologies being even more advanced, Halkeginia not being a version of our world.

 

[edale]

Well at any rate, if most people back then died before 20, then it would be important for them to have children before then.

And to make up for the lack of diseases, in ZnT you have nobles killing off commoners in droves.

And before you argue against that, I'll point out how everyone expected Guice, who was just a childish fop, to kill Saito during their duel. I'll also point out to Agnes's entire home town was burned to the ground and every man woman and child, save Agnes herself, was killed for some political maneuvering. You're looking at a population of a few thousand killed off right there. Granted, that case is an outlier (at least in-story evidence suggests this), but it still shows that stuff like that does happen.

 

[Zackarix]

Well at any rate, if most people back then died before 20, then it would be important for them to have children before then.

Click to shrink...

But most people didn't die before twenty. Even if if you don't account for the horrid infant and child mortality rates that drastically lowered the average, life expectancy was still in the thirties at the lowest estimates.

And marrying young was a thing mostly limited to nobles, who did it for political reasons. The lower classes tended to wait until they were financially stable enough to support a family.

 

[edale]

And marrying young was a thing mostly limited to nobles, who did it for political reasons. The lower classes tended to wait until they were financially stable enough to support a family.

Click to shrink...

Ummm...no.

It was a predominantly agricultural society back then. The one thing constant between ALL agricultural societies (before the advent of modern farming tools/practices) was that families hover around 2 parents and 7-8 children; the main trait looked for in women in these societies is 'birthing hips', since this made it less likely the woman would die in childbirth after the 3rd or 4th child. As (if) the children grow old enough to move out on their own, more children are birthed. As I've said earlier the children would often move out and start their own families around 13ish.

This allows for both the (relatively) rapid expansion of "tamed" lands, as well as providing a constant stream of children to help work the fields (farming is HARD work).

Also... there was no such thing as "financially stable" for a commoner. Look up exactly what a "serf" is. Commoners were essentially slaves to their lords, anything the commoner owned was only theirs at the sufferance of their lord.

 

[Zackarix]

Ummm...no.

It was a predominantly agricultural society back then. The one thing constant between ALL agricultural societies (before the advent of modern farming tools/practices) was that families hover around 2 parents and 7-8 children; the main trait looked for in women in these societies is 'birthing hips', since this made it less likely the woman would die in childbirth after the 3rd or 4th child. As (if) the children grow old enough to move out on their own, more children are birthed. As I've said earlier the children would often move out and start their own families around 13ish.

This allows for both the (relatively) rapid expansion of "tamed" lands, as well as providing a constant stream of children to help work the fields (farming is HARD work).

Also... there was no such thing as "financially stable" for a commoner. Look up exactly what a "serf" is. Commoners were essentially slaves to their lords, anything the commoner owned was only theirs at the sufferance of their lord.

Click to shrink...

Wrong.

But what of young women who were not noble or royal - at what age did they marry and have children.

The consensus is that young women of middle or low status married and gave birth at a much later age for a number of reasons:

• They did not need to marry for dynastic reasons.
• They tended to contribute to the family income whilst they remained unmarried and still living within the family unit.
• Girls were often employed in service for a "fixed" term before being paid out and released from service.
• And in some cases, a "fee" was required to be paid upon the marriage.
• "Church law forbade child marriage and allowed young brides and grooms to repudiate the marriage once they reached the age of puberty, which was officially set at 12 for girls and 14 for boys"

So, the most common age for a young woman of middle or low status to marry was from the age of 22 years old. Thus we can conclude that this young woman would have given birth to her first child before she was 25 years old.

Click to shrink...

 

[edale]

Wrong.

Click to shrink...

I will concede that my knowledge is based more off the male side of things... and I'm pretty sure we're about 700 years off with the time periods we're talking about.

I know more about the times closer to 500-800ish AD, you seem to be talking about stuff closer to 1200-1500 AD (the earliest date I could find mentioned in that article is 1158 AD).

I will point out there are several things in that article that support arguments I've made. Such as almost everything before the bit you quoted...

For many noble-born or royal women, marriage could and often did take place at a young age. There are many instances or very young girls being betrothed and married under the age of 10 years old. This did not necessarily mean that the marriage was consummated. However, there was a perception that once a girl began her period that she was considered to be of marriageable age. And so the male could begin his almighty pursuit for an heir.

So, typically, when did a young medieval girl embark on the road to "womanhood":

• Puberty is the process of change that takes place as you grow up and become physically mature and capable of having children.
• Puberty (and thus menstruation / periods) usually takes place between the ages of 10yo and 16yo.
• "Most girls start their first periods at about 12 or 13; however some girls may have periods by the age of 8 and still others may not have a period until they are 14 or 15."(Source: About Women's Health).
• At the time when we have our first period or "menarche", we are crossing the line from girlhood to womanhood.

Click to shrink...

Granted, that's going all the way back to my saying Missy would be viewed as an "acceptable target," but still..

 

[Riero]

How about....we stick to canon facts?

A lot of the time period arguments are reliant on RL history which has to take the Dark Ages into account, which only happened because the Fall of Rome. ZnT/FoZ may be based on a RL time period, but it got there through different ways.

The technology level is behind because magic is a better option forever one who can manage it. Any 'Enlightment' thinking is focused on Magic, not science.

The culture is based on royalty, because damn it, the dominant religion is based on magic.

Its not as if some RL examples wouldn't translate over, but evidence for their existence should be argued for in context of e canon universe. Which is anachronistic.

(Also, ZnT doesn't appear to be based on the Dark Ages anyway, even if some of the culture is the same. The Dark Ages were ruled by kingdoms. ZnT is ruled by a bunch of kingdoms, all answering to one localized kingdom. Kinda like how the Romans or British had their empires.)

 

[theqwopingone]

"acceptable target,"

Click to shrink...

*snerk* i wonder if you could keep someone alive without their skeleton.

 

[Psyckosama]

He's not exactly going to ask Missy her age before flirting, and considering her armor has a boob-plate and she probably looks no younger than Louise so she'd probably register as old enough.

 

[Sorain]

He's not exactly going to ask Missy her age before flirting, and considering her armor has a boob-plate and she probably looks no younger than Louise so she'd probably register as old enough.

Click to shrink...

Most likely. Besides, given how much Missy is sick of being treated like a kid, she might be thrilled. You know, until she realizes how he actually behaves.

Then comes the embarrassment and the ass kicking....

 

[Asheram]

Most likely. Besides, given how much Missy is sick of being treated like a kid, she might be thrilled. You know, until she realizes how he actually behaves.

Then comes the embarrassment and the ass kicking....

Click to shrink...

And the being dropped from a few miles up.

 

[BF110C4]

And the being dropped from a few miles up.

Click to shrink...

Or running out of magic trying to get back from the desert while praying not to find an elf or two.

 

[theqwopingone]

Most likely. Besides, given how much Missy is sick of being treated like a kid, she might be thrilled. You know, until she realizes how he actually behaves.

Then comes the embarrassment and the ass kicking....

Click to shrink...

And the being dropped from a few miles up.

Click to shrink...

Or running out of magic trying to get back from the desert while praying not to find an elf or two.

Click to shrink...

or the absolute worst option, being told to grow up by someone shorter then Louise.

really though, you're under playing what she could do, you have any idea of how ioisation works in storms?

 

[floppy_seal99]

Well shit. Just realized something. If Missy's the Gandalfr...and shards are weapons of conflict, then could use of her powers potentially trigger the runes, removing the Manton Limits on her? Or maybe Missy can turn anything into a weapon with her warping powers, so any implement or object used in combat triggers Gandalfr. How fucking OP is that??? Gutenbye Void Dragon thing from the finale.

 

[Asheram]

Well shit. Just realized something. If Missy's the Gandalfr...and shards are weapons of conflict, then could use of her powers potentially trigger the runes, removing the Manton Limits on her? Or maybe Missy can turn anything into a weapon with her warping powers, so any implement or object used in combat triggers Gandalfr. How fucking OP is that??? Gutenbye Void Dragon thing from the finale.

Click to shrink...

Gandalfr Vista: Chibi Narwhal with clothes.

 

[Euroteres]

I can only imagine how absolutely hilarious any fight Vista has against some of the earlier opponents might be.

Vista vs Guiche

Guiche: Come forth my mighty Valkyries and show this upstart commoner her place!
Vista: 'eye twitches'
'Valkyries proceed to trip over each other, stab each other and end up in a messy pile in the exact center of the courtyard.'
Guiche: Wha- How did you!? 'is punched in the face from across the courtyard'
Vista: Are you done now?

Vista (and Louise) vs Foquet

'Golem attempts to attack Louise/Vista. Space warps and throws its fist into its face.'
Vista: Stop hitting yourself.
Louise: Take this! Fireball! 'space warps to alter its path and send the spell into the golem, thoroughly explodifying it'
Vista: 'turns to Louise' You really need to work on your aim.

Vista vs Guiche the Recrackening

Kirche: Come on now Guiche, at least give the girl something to defend herself with!
Guiche: Very well, 'hair flip' Let it not be known that I am unwilling to give the opposition a sporting chance. 'creates sword for Vista'
Vista: 'picks up sword'
Guiche: 'Space Warp Stab was SUPER EFFECTIVE! K.O.!!'
Vista: 'examines the screaming crowd of nobles' I think I get why PR was reluctant to give me a weapon now.

 

[theqwopingone]

I can only imagine how absolutely hilarious any fight Vista has against some of the earlier opponents might be.

Vista vs Guiche

Guiche: Come forth my mighty Valkyries and show this upstart commoner her place!
Vista: 'eye twitches'
'Valkyries proceed to trip over each other, stab each other and end up in a messy pile in the exact center of the courtyard.'
Guiche: Wha- How did you!? 'is punched in the face from across the courtyard'
Vista: Are you done now?

Vista (and Louise) vs Foquet

'Golem attempts to attack Louise/Vista. Space warps and throws its fist into its face.'
Vista: Stop hitting yourself.
Louise: Take this! Fireball! 'space warps to alter its path and send the spell into the golem, thoroughly explodifying it'
Vista: 'turns to Louise' You really need to work on your aim.

Vista vs Guiche the Recrackening

Kirche: Come on now Guiche, at least give the girl something to defend herself with!
Guiche: Very well, 'hair flip' Let it not be known that I am unwilling to give the opposition a sporting chance. 'creates sword for Vista'
Vista: 'picks up sword'
Guiche: 'Space Work Stab was SUPER EFFECTIVE! K.O.!!'
Vista: 'examines the screaming crowd of nobles' I think I get why PR was reluctant to give me a weapon now.

Click to shrink...

you know i think a better thing to do with the explosions would be to point all or the force in one direction like a PA Comander i know of did, or possibly do the same to cause something to reach sufficient velocity.

 

[Xilph]

Well shit. Just realized something. If Missy's the Gandalfr...and shards are weapons of conflict, then could use of her powers potentially trigger the runes, removing the Manton Limits on her? Or maybe Missy can turn anything into a weapon with her warping powers, so any implement or object used in combat triggers Gandalfr. How fucking OP is that??? Gutenbye Void Dragon thing from the finale.

Click to shrink...

That makes basically no sense. Shards aren't weapons of conflict for one, but for a more significant one that's not how Gandalfr works, it increases the users ability to use a weapon (that they're physically using, can't gain super leadership by "wielding" soldiers as a weapon against your enemies or whatever), not modifies how the weapon works. Even assuming shards count it would just increase her competence, removing the Manton Limit would be like it buffing a gun someone is using to be able to use enough fuel to fire a cannon to make the gun more powerful, that's fundamentally just not how it works at all.

But yeah, shards are not weapons (just as magic isn't a weapon or words aren't weapons, despite being usable to inflict damage), and Gandalfr buffs the user physically and mentally, it doesn't modify how the weapon works.

Actually that's a thought, if it works on vague things that aren't really weapons, wouldn't it give super speechcraft? Insults are at least as much weapons of conflict as powers, tools used to harm or incite it, would she gain Gandalfr enhanced snarkiness?

 

[Starfox5]

Actually that's a thought, if it works on vague things that aren't really weapons, wouldn't it give super speechcraft? Insults are at least as much weapons of conflict as powers, tools used to harm or incite it, would she gain Gandalfr enhanced snarkiness?

Click to shrink...

"Oh my God! I've become Tattletale!"

 

[Sorain]

would she gain Gandalfr enhanced snarkiness?

Click to shrink...

You better hope not. That's dangerous. Like handing Alexandria's powers to a T-Rex dangerous.

But yeah, The runes, presuming they are Gandalfr and do work, would let her do adorifying things with firearms and pole arms.

The big question is how quickly can she set up a given effect. God help you if your in sky-ship to sky-ship combat with her. The phrase 'guided cannonball' comes to mind.

A point of question (answerable only by the writer I think) is if Void spells (in this case Explosion) travel at all. If there is a projectile, even a supraluminal one, then Vista could aid Louise in aim greatly. If not, then she can help some, but can't (say) set up a 'ping pong the spell back and forth until it hits something' situation.

The also mentioned 'focus fire' would also come to mind as a particularly frightening trick given the force Louise can put out already.

 

[Asheram]

Shards aren't weapons of conflict for one,

Click to shrink...

Wot? That's exactly what they are.
A tank might be able to ferry troops, but at the end of the day it's meant to put a big hole in something. It's the same thing with shards. Some of them might not have obvious combat applications but the purpose of every single shard is to give you some way to make someone else very dead, even if you have to do it in a roundabout way.

 

[Sorain]

Wot? That's exactly what they are.
A tank might be able to ferry troops, but at the end of the day it's meant to put a big hole in something. It's the same thing with shards. Some of them might not have obvious combat applications but the purpose of every single shard is to give you some way to make someone else very dead, even if you have to do it in a roundabout way.

Click to shrink...

I think his view point was that, to the Entities that created them by fracturing themselves, a Shard is not a weapon. It is not a tool to be used. It's a function. The whole 'all combat applications' is the result of them not considering that a drive to conflict means all the data they get is combat applicable uses for the function.

at least that's my take on it. Sting would DEFINITELY fit the weapon tag, since it's literally an outmoded weapon for Entity on Entity combat. But this power of warping space? I doubt that it qualifies.

 

[Xilph]

Wot? That's exactly what they are.
A tank might be able to ferry troops, but at the end of the day it's meant to put a big hole in something. It's the same thing with shards. Some of them might not have obvious combat applications but the purpose of every single shard is to give you some way to make someone else very dead, even if you have to do it in a roundabout way.

Click to shrink...

Sorain is on the right track yeah, shards aren't weapons. Vista's power for an example shouldn't inherently be a weapon any more than a car is, it's pretty much for moving things around more easily, yes you can use it for combat, but it's not a weapon. Even something like Sting isn't inherently a weapon, it's something designed to allow other weapons to work when they normally wouldn't. Vista's comparison to a car is more apt though, considering entities should use space warping to help with their transportation, make the distance shorter and you can effectively amplify speed without actually doing so, which with a universal speed limit is a big deal. Space warping is almost certainly one of the cornerstones of their FTL travel.

Shards themselves? They're no more weapons than spells or computer programs, the occasional one is intended as a weapon, but as a rule they're not. Although a lot of universes tend to focus on combat applications of magic admittedly it's very rare to see anyone portray it as purely offensive, even primarily offensive is relatively rare.

 

[theqwopingone]

shards are not weapons

Click to shrink...

is Sting a weapon? at what point does a Shard stop being a tool and start being a weapon? if you lense a explosion so that all the 'outward' force is pointing in one direction the size of a marble, or possibly at something the size of a marble, would either of those count as a weapon? it's canon that part of using a sword is using your body really well, would a Shard count as something the Rune works on that way?

 

[BF110C4]

For what I remember of FoZ the definition of weapon is quite narrow and unforgiving. The magic itself once determinated that a sword was not a weapon becase despite having an edge it was a decorative piece instead of something created specifically to fight. Under the circumstances I don't think that her power or applied skills would count, that said she just needs a bow and an infinite quiver (possible thanks to her power and the Vallerie credit line) to massacre entire armies.

 

[kifflomx]

For what I remember of FoZ the definition of weapon is quite narrow and unforgiving. The magic itself once determinated that a sword was not a weapon becase despite having an edge it was a decorative piece instead of something created specifically to fight. Under the circumstances I don't think that her power or applied skills would count, that said she just needs a bow and an infinite quiver (possible thanks to her power and the Vallerie credit line) to massacre entire armies.

Click to shrink...

That's the anime. In the LN the decorative sword worked. Given that Vista didn't even comment on the language not being english this is most likely the LN so it is more about whether Vista sees her shard power as a weapon or not. Also Gandalfr has a time limit, it can run out if you use it too mych and needs to recharge.

 

[Riero]

That's the anime. In the LN the decorative sword worked. Given that Vista didn't even comment on the language not being english this is most likely the LN so it is more about whether Vista sees her shard power as a weapon or not. Also Gandalfr has a time limit, it can run out if you use it too mych and needs to recharge.

Click to shrink...

Considering that Vista triggered due to family stress (something about parents getting divorced?) I'd say that she doesn't consider her power as a weapon, but more as a way to 'get away' from everything.

 

[shinkicker444]

Hmm, wonder if Armsmaster or someone will analyse the energy left by the portal to make a portal to come find her eventually? It's not completely outside the realm of possibility.


--------
Omake: [Purpose], an alternate summoning.

Louise coughed, while waving her hand in front of her face to clear the smoke away created by her summoning. She had tried so hard and come to far to fail. She was sick of being called The Zero.

As Professor Colbert raised his staff to clear the smoke away a flash of golden light erupted from the cloud blinding Lousie and all the other students. Blinking away the spots she noticed the smoke was gone, replaced with pure clean air and floating in the centre of courtyard was her familiar.

Despite herself Lousie blushed, before her was a large man so perfect and pristine she was sure he couldn't be real, nothing like that existed in realty, right? Oh, and he was gold, glowing and wearing a white leotard. He was hers. Suck it Kirche. Suck. It.

The Golden Man simply floated there, unmoving, head tilted slightly eyes locked onto Louise.

"Uh, miss Valliere, if you would complete the ritual. Now, please." Louise blinked at her teachers voice, he sounded worried for some reason

Still she took a deep breath and moved towards her new familiar. Looking up into his eyes she thought she saw sadness there, in fact he kind of reminded her of her uncle after her aunt died. Maybe he had lost someone recently? Well no matter he was her familar now, or would be.

[Query][Purpose]

It slammed into her head with the force of a marauding dragon. Images, intent, concepts designed to communicate. She grabbed the side of her head, wincing with the pain. "Oh, founder that hurt."

"Miss Valliere? Are you alright?" Asked the professor, his staff in front of him, eyes moving back and forth between his student and the man floating before them.

"Yes, Professor Colbert, he, um. He was just speaking to me, I think. It was weird, like images straight into brain" she said answering her teacher, before focusing back on her familiar. "I summoned you to be my familiar."

[Clarification][Purpose]

She winced again at the series of mental images and concepts projected into her brain. "Um, a familiars purpose is to help their master. They, help gather things like ingredients and information," at that last word a perfectly sculpted brow rose in what she guessed was curiosity "they also help in combat, by fighting with and protecting their master." At this the Golden Mans head tilted the other way, while maintaining the same expression.

[Companion][Guardian][Collation][Analysis]

"Y-yes, something like that." She was a bit dazed, translating what she saw in the message. She felt like she was missing something important. What were those thing in the sky supposed to be?

[Acceptance]

Louise smiled, and closed the distance between them before completing the ritual.

Her familiar was the best.

...

 

[Catter]

[Companion][Guardian][Collation][Analysis]

Click to shrink...

Shiiiiiiitttttt.