Amelia, Worm AU [Complete]

[Divabot]

In canon, Taylor was talking to Nilbolg's meat puppet, and then had her swarm attack and kill Nilbolg's real body that was underground. So yes, Nilbolg died in canon. Or did I miss something?

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You missed the epilogue chapter where he was alive and well.

 

[Zarohk]

A/N- Cutesy chapter! Also. It's fucking snowing again. At this point, my trigger event is going to be hypothermia related.

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Do you have some sort of superbreath? Except, instead of ice breath, you fill the air with pure cuteness and feels.

Also, the snow started the first weekend after the latest chapter of Copacetic was posted. So it's like the weather is going "No Copacetic? Well then, we'll have snow this weekend". Probably a coincidence, but it's been every weekend of February. Hypothermia and too much snow is going to all of New England's trigger.

 

[Alterego9]

Why doesn't every trauma victim gets proper treatment? Because it's expensive. Why don't they properly integrate youth into society? Because youth centers would cost money. It would take social workers to reach out to persons that are disfranchised for one reason or other. Which would cost money again.

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If you could just throw more and more resources at a psychological problem until it goes away, then Pantheon would have already applied that to themselves and Amelia wouldn't exist.

Sometimes people don't request treatment, or actively reject it. Sometimes they are set in their ways, hold deep moral values, or don't see their distance from the norm as an illness.

When a whole planet's worth of people are left with their ways of living lost, there will be friction, even if Pantheon throws a billion cloned Dr. Yamadas into the mix, because contrary to fanon, psychologists don't have Master ratings, they can just give suggestions, that most people won't follow. People regularly commit suicide, crime, and other bad decisions, while already under therapy.

And here a character and apparently you are arguing that solving some of those problems by default is somehow the end of a meaningful existance.

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To think that a painful change in social structures can be wished away with money, is at least as stupid as thinking that any such change is "the end of a meaningful existance".

If you can't see any middle ground between the two, even when it's been spelled out ("it's clear that we are obliged the world safer, freer, and more comfortable for ourselves, even knowing that it will have it's own dark side in the form of bringing great emotional upset"), that betrays an extremely naive view of how the world works.

 

[pheonix89]

If you could just throw more and more resources at a psychological problem until it goes away, then Pantheon would have already applied that to themselves and Amelia wouldn't exist.

Sometimes people don't request treatment, or actively reject it. Sometimes they are set in their ways, hold deep moral values, or don't see their distance from the norm as an illness.

When a whole planet's worth of people are left with their ways of living lost, there will be friction, even if Pantheon throws a billion cloned Dr. Yamadas into the mix, because contrary to fanon, psychologists don't have Master ratings, they can just give suggestions, that most people won't follow. People regularly commit suicide, crime, and other bad decisions, while already under therapy.

To think that a painful change in social structures can be wished away with money, is at least as stupid as thinking that any such change is "the end of a meaningful existance".

If you can't see any middle ground between the two, even when it's been spelled out ("it's clear that we are obliged the world safer, freer, and more comfortable for ourselves, even knowing that it will have it's own dark side in the form of bringing great emotional upset"), that betrays an extremely naive view of how the world works.

Click to shrink...

You do realize that no one IRL, or in canon Worm had the option of pointing Accord and Dragon Unchained at these issues? And that Pantheon's internal issues aren't really analogous given A. Shard mindfuckery and B. Taylia?

 

[Leonidas333]

If you could just throw more and more resources at a psychological problem until it goes away, then Pantheon would have already applied that to themselves and Amelia wouldn't exist.

Sometimes people don't request treatment, or actively reject it. Sometimes they are set in their ways, hold deep moral values, or don't see their distance from the norm as an illness.

When a whole planet's worth of people are left with their ways of living lost, there will be friction, even if Pantheon throws a billion cloned Dr. Yamadas into the mix, because contrary to fanon, psychologists don't have Master ratings, they can just give suggestions, that most people won't follow. People regularly commit suicide, crime, and other bad decisions, while already under therapy.



To think that a painful change in social structures can be wished away with money, is at least as stupid as thinking that any such change is "the end of a meaningful existance".

If you can't see any middle ground between the two, even when it's been spelled out ("it's clear that we are obliged the world safer, freer, and more comfortable for ourselves, even knowing that it will have it's own dark side in the form of bringing great emotional upset"), that betrays an extremely naive view of how the world works.

Click to shrink...

For Pantheon, its likely that one reason they haven't reached out to a psychologist in this case is because it would be a weak point, and a distraction. They are functional, have Minerva around to make sure they don't go absolutely batshit, and are spending as much time as they can on trying to fix the world and defeat scion. In addition, you have to make sure the psychologist is secure. Its a great source of information to their enemies. All it takes is one master, one thinker, and then things that they really need to keep secret are out in the open, jeopardizing a huge amount of effort. Its sad, but frankly at the moment, its likely that outside mental help is more risky than it is beneficial. It doesn't matter if they go crazy doing it, as long as they are able to kill scion, it will have been worth it.

 

[Alterego9]

You do realize that no one IRL, or in canon Worm had the option of pointing Accord and Dragon Unchained at these issues? And that Pantheon's internal issues aren't really analogous given A. Shard mindfuckery and B. Taylia?

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Then how exactly do you suggest "pointing Dragon at the problem" that Mark Dallon wouldn't feel comfortable in a more dependent lifestyle than his current one?

Dragon and Accord are useful for engineering problems with objectively correct solutions, not for "fixing" human nature.

Pantheon was just one example, you might as well replace it with any other group or person that is rich enough to afford anything, yet still has emotional problems that can't be solved just with resources. There is always an excuse to not go to pschiatrist, and even if there isn't, a psychiatrist is not an instant solution to all problems.

 

[dasstan]

You know her better than I do, but I think she'd rather let sleeping dogs lie.

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Aw, and now I'm thinking about Bitch and all her dead puppies.

 

[tordg]

weren't thrilled with the idea of the Empress of spying on everyone with bugs

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Second "of" redundant?

Dragon and Accord are useful for engineering problems with objectively correct solutions, not for "fixing" human nature.

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This contains some engineering principles that may help with certain mental health issues. I was actually initially intending to link it as a more economically oriented thing, which it's better at.

 

[doomlord9]

This contains some engineering principles that may help with certain mental health issues. I was actually initially intending to link it as a more economically oriented thing, which it's better at.

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Cutting off the argument before it starts, do NOT discuss this here. I don't care about it one way or the other but I know that this subject is a major hot-button for some people and this isn't the place for it. If you feel the need to do so, we have a rants forum for that exact reason.

 

[Simonbob]

Second "of" redundant?
This contains some engineering principles that may help with certain mental health issues. I was actually initially intending to link it as a more economically oriented thing, which it's better at.

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Bullshit.

Complete and utter bullshit.

He talks about tunnels, without considering the cost of digging them out. He talks of electric cars, and pretending that the only issue is battery capacity. He talks about mobile houses, and doesn't think about how much energy would be required, how many hills would fuck his ideas.

The guy's a small minded moron.


Edit:Said all I'm gonna. Want to discuss more, send me a PM.

 

[tordg]

Okay, I was worried about this... Yes, I'm aware Yudkowsky isn't particularly well liked by SB culture, and that the cost of implementing the things he proposes are wonky (even after controlling for different emphases in values?), but I felt it to still be worth linking because A: Avalon has all new infrastructure and actual superintelligences to plan things and Tinker Bullshit, and B: because in canon Accord is shown to come up with far more fanciful seeming plans (Wrecking ball based city transit? Really?), and C: I felt that it emphasized certain concerns like light levels that are subtle, but the kind of things a superhuman plan would account for.

Does that help? Can we carry on discussion with the knowledge that I'm not proposing to turn Avalon into dath ilan? Or even proposing a utopia in general?

 

[Alterego9]

Second "of" redundant?
This contains some engineering principles that may help with certain mental health issues. I was actually initially intending to link it as a more economically oriented thing, which it's better at.

Click to shrink...

In accordance with doomlord9's request, I won't start debating the economic claims of that particular article, but I might point out that it's pretty weird that you are citing a person who wrote an elaborate sequence of articles about the genuinely difficult problem of how most utopias appear unsatisfying, to support the claim that a resourceful utopia could easily become satisfying for everyone.

Or if we should avoid discussing anything Yudkowsky, let's just stick to George Orwell's article on the same subject.

 

[Beyogi]

If you could just throw more and more resources at a psychological problem until it goes away, then Pantheon would have already applied that to themselves and Amelia wouldn't exist.

Sometimes people don't request treatment, or actively reject it. Sometimes they are set in their ways, hold deep moral values, or don't see their distance from the norm as an illness.

When a whole planet's worth of people are left with their ways of living lost, there will be friction, even if Pantheon throws a billion cloned Dr. Yamadas into the mix, because contrary to fanon, psychologists don't have Master ratings, they can just give suggestions, that most people won't follow. People regularly commit suicide, crime, and other bad decisions, while already under therapy.

Click to shrink...

Um... goalpost moving much? How did we get from the consequences of providing Maslov Stages 1 & 2 for free as default. To Pantehon's existing or non-existing psychological problems?

The general problem with psychologists is that there are not enough of them and that they're overrun. And that certain risk groups, like men in general don't get properly diagnosed for some reason, but whatever. So yeah, spending money to hire and educate psychologist could help.

If people feel like eating their regrowing homes is wrong somehow I'm pretty sure Avalon won't mind if they go hunting shit as long as it isn't other people and their property and build their shacks from stone. As Avalon doesn't force anyone to immigrate those people who hold too deep moral values can just go and die on bet or one of the other colonies. If it's either Red or dead reasonable people chose red while everyone else choses the darwin award.
I'm not sure what your problem is. That Avalon doesn't cater to their personal brand of insanity? If you need to fight for your life to be happy, well, there's the hellworld of bet. But holy fuck, don't go around claiming basic social security is the end of humanity as we know it.

Also crazy people as a whole are not a major problem for humanity. They're a rounding error, which is one of the reason society as a whole doesn't give a shit. On the other hand nobody will murder you for food when they can just eat the ground, or the wall, or the tree over there and it actually tastes somewhat decent.
As it isn't their intention to build Paradise, human problems obviously won't magically go away. But that's not what my point is about anyway.

To think that a painful change in social structures can be wished away with money, is at least as stupid as thinking that any such change is "the end of a meaningful existance".

If you can't see any middle ground between the two, even when it's been spelled out ("it's clear that we are obliged the world safer, freer, and more comfortable for ourselves, even knowing that it will have it's own dark side in the form of bringing great emotional upset"), that betrays an extremely naive view of how the world works.

Click to shrink...

Sorry, I don't get your problem. I really don't get it. Making problems go away is not a painful change to social structures. Sane people welcome that. As I've already pointed out most problems can be solved with applying ressources. It's just that you need to be willing to apply them for it. Education? Get more teachers, get people a stipend for studying. Health? Pretty much the same, unless you expect miracle cures, but that's what they have Pantheon for. Self-government? That's what the whole system was set up for. Find your group of like minded people and build your Utopia. Even if it goes wrong you don't need to worry much.

Honestly, I get the impression you take real life problems that have build up over decades of neglect out of context and declare them unsolvable. The big joke is that they've already been solved in places. Fuck, Avalon's home and food thing is basically a thing in every nation with a halfway developed social state. The fact that Mark Dallon decided that this is the end of the world is pretty much an indication for a very very very narrow worldview. A mental horizon with the radius of zero, I guess. A point of view.

I'm sorry, but the dark side isn't. That's like complaining about how solving world hunger results in more people being fat. It's taking a microscope to look for dark spots in a thoroughly good thing. I'm usually not one for taking a utilitarist view, but fuck. So they're upset for half a year or so until they've settled in and then they're way more happy because they have less horrible problems. So overall win.

 

[Divabot]

Okay, I was worried about this... Yes, I'm aware Yudkowsky isn't particularly well liked by SB culture, and that the cost of implementing the things he proposes are wonky (even after controlling for different emphases in values?), but I felt it to still be worth linking because A: Avalon has all new infrastructure and actual superintelligences to plan things and Tinker Bullshit, and B: because in canon Accord is shown to come up with far more fanciful seeming plans (Wrecking ball based city transit? Really?), and C: I felt that it emphasized certain concerns like light levels that are subtle, but the kind of things a superhuman plan would account for.
Does that help?

Click to shrink...

Although there's something very SBish about someone who founded a "research institute" that appears to be literally just a tax dodge for Peter Thiel, that has produced less published papers (zero peer-reviewed) in fifteen years than one physics Ph. D student produces (all peer-reviewed) in three or four, an organization which the main Effective Altruism charity guide marked as actually hindering its chosen cause; and who has literally - I checked and counted - zero achievements in his claimed field of endeavour, no projects at all actually finished, and whose most famous achievement is a popular Harry Potter fanfic ... I find myself strangely reluctant to take on his recommendations even on minor things.

YMMV of course. And apparently he/they'll finish the Harry Potter fic, and that'll definitely be a finished achievement.

and I got through all that without calling anyone a "narcissistic charlatan" and as such demand an Internet cookie

Now, ONTO THAT FABULOUS WORM FANFIC where they might destroy the NATURE OF HUMANITY ITSELF by leaving people not worrying about food and shelter. Or not. My money's on "not", but then, even in the perfect post-Singularity world where we're all Hansonian ems in a computer, with the power to do literally anything, it is absolutely certain that we will continue to be assholes to each other, or we wouldn't be worthy of the label "human". If you gave humans a literal palace of gold they'd complain it wasn't silvery enough.


actually it's about ethics in nanotechnology journali*(!"*(*$"!&*("!&"$("!$
NO CARRIER

 

[Daunmi]

The next Endbringer being an explicitly dimensionally unrestrained one would wreck a lot of people's plans. And by 'a lot' I mean basically 'all of them'.

 

[TanaNari]

People. Stop fighting or I will slap all of you with my dick.

Which could be fun.

But then my girlfriend will hunt you down, skin you alive, and wear you like a suit.

... Man was that an awkward way to start off the new year...

 

[Divabot]

People. Stop fighting or I will slap all of you with my dick.
Which could be fun.
But then my girlfriend will hunt you down, skin you alive, and wear you like a suit.
... Man was that an awkward way to start off the new year...

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QQ definitely needs to adopt SV's various different possible upvotes, with a special one for "ew".

 

[CptTagon]

Okay, Taylor, you can do this

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Okay, Taylor, you can do this.

 

[Daunmi]

Well, I'm not fighting, so I'll survive!

Unless I'm a casualty...

 

[GiftofLove]

People. Stop fighting or I will slap all of you with my dick.

Which could be fun.

But then my girlfriend will hunt you down, skin you alive, and wear you like a suit.

... Man was that an awkward way to start off the new year...

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A dick with a dick? Preposterous!

 

[pepperjack]

A dick with a dick? Preposterous!

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Au contraire.

Spoiler: Seeing is believing

 

[TanaNari]

Amelia, Ch 255


I took a deep breath before stepping out of the car. I couldn't say I was looking forward to this. As much as things had improved between me and my family, they still weren't really family. With exception to Vicky and Crystal, and maybe Aunt Sarah. Mark and Carol had to wait until I broke every rule they tried to hammer into me, until I became world famously successful, before they actually tried to be a family. Still, I couldn't deny that they were trying their best to be supportive now.


SupportUnderstanding. I smiled.


Vicky opened the door while we were still going up the sidewalk "Welcome back to the world of the living," she greeted. "Please enjoy your complimentary taxes, we're sorry you weren't satisfied with the death."


"Actually, Vicky," I smiled. She knew how to cheer me up a bit, at least. "We're foreign dignitaries. We don't have to pay taxes."


"No shit?" she asked.


"No shit," I confirmed.


"Well, that poor joke's going to need the resurrection tech now," she sighed. "Let's get you inside."


I walked in, followed by Taylor and her father. Dinner was already cooking. It smelled really really good. It was then that I realized, not including the week of nonexistence, it had been almost a month since I ate anything that didn't grow from the walls. Let alone well cooked food.


"That smells amazing," Taylor spoke up. "What is it?"


"Thanks," Aunt Sarah answered from the kitchen. "It's a roasted butternut squash recipe. "Crystal discovered the hard way just how limited your choice of foods are when you're newly restored."


"Mom!" Crystal's mortified shout came from the living room.


"So I looked up a few friendly options, and this is one of my favorites," she continued, completely ignoring her poor humiliated daughter.


"It really does smell good," I agreed readily.


"See, told you they'd like it," Danny replied. SadLossDeterminationGlad. I grabbed Taylor's hand. GratitudeSafe. She still wasn't exactly thrilled that her dad was seeing someone, apparently. And Aunt Sarah was taking the 'avoidance' approach. Talking about their relationship wasn't in the cards for any of us right now. If anything, that'd just make it worse. More like she was trying to play a surrogate mother, which wasn't what Taylor wanted. Made more complicated because near as I could tell, her dad and my aunt weren't ready to place a label on their relationship.


"Just remember to save some for the rest of us," Mark yelled from the living room. Speaking of complicated relationships.


"I will, Dad," I agreed. Having kicked off my shoes and taken off my coat, I made it to the the living room. This house was always too big for four people. "Hi, Mom," I said as I saw Carol come in from the kitchen. She hugged me, and I hugged back. It wasn't a bad hug, by any stretch. I was glad we'd reconciled. But again, by the time that happened, I'd grown past them. I created a new, true, family for myself. I'd moved on from this phase of my life.


At the same time, I didn't resent them anymore, and they were doing their best to help me. The special meal was proof of that. After a slightly longer hug than mere politeness would require, I broke away.


"Don't worry, I'm fine," I insisted. "I'm sure Crystal and Vicky have already told you. To me this was nothing more than a mild surprise, that's all."


"No, you don't get out of it that easy," Crystal quipped. "We had to put up with days of fretting, now it's your turn. Right?"


"Damn straight," Vicky agreed.


....


By the time we got back, I was mentally and emotionally exhausted. Another side effect of the resurrection tech, from its perspective I hadn't slept... ever, actually. A full twenty four hours while the conscious mind was suppressed, but the subconscious mind was being coded with all my memories and knowledge. Everything that made me, me. That put a lot of stress on the brain, as you could expect. So it was early evening and I was painfully tired.


Riley was there to greet me with a hug the moment it was clear we were alone. "Hey, mushroom," I rustled her now black hair. "I guess you still miss me."


"Uh huh," she nodded. I glanced over at Taylor. "Don't worry, I don't need to stay in your room. I can sleep with Theo."


ShockConcern. "Uh... Riley," I started. "That's not really appropriate."


"It's fine," she looked up at me. "We both know he wouldn't do anything inappropriate with me." She didn't sound like she was trying to persuade me, so much as complaining about this fact. ConcernSupport.


"Umm... I got a better idea," I replied. One that won't involve me being labeled as a worse parent than Carol. "How about if I just enlarge the bed a bit and you can stay in our bedroom with us? I'm sure Taylor understands."


"Yeah," Taylor smiled and put a hand on Riley's shoulder. "I know you missed her as much as I did. And it's thanks to your hard work that we could even bring her back at all. I can't keep her all to myself."


"Really? But what about your alone time together?" she asked. "You both have brand new bodies, now."


"Riley, I'm too tired to think about anything other than sleeping right now," I informed her. "And I know you miss Zach, too. But that doesn't mean you need to start acting like him. You can talk to us about what's wrong, you know."


"I've tried everything," she finally replied. "Everything we try to do is countered by his stupid power, and that's the only thing keeping him alive. We have the healing tech, and it'd work on anyone else. Except maybe someone like Alexandria."


"So it doesn't work on them because their powers protect them, right?" I asked.


"Yeah," she agreed.


"This might be a dumb question, but if Lily's anti-defense power was plugged into a healing device, would that work?" I suggested.


"Won't work," she answered. "Her power doesn't work that way. She alters the way matter functions, but not energy. If she could work with energy, we could give her a flashlight and watch her melt Endbringers like they were made of smoke. Only something with significant mass can be carry the wavelength her power relies on. Although that might be a Passenger thing."


"And power nullifying is straight out," Taylor added. "Too many risks."


"Wait... you said he could heal naturally over time?" I asked.


"Yeah," Riley agreed. "But that might take years."

"What about if we do something to speed that along?" I asked. "We know there are time manipulators out there. Maybe even localize it to a small area. We know his power doesn't counteract time manipulation, even if it does have a way around it like it does to Clockblocker."


"We considered that, too," Riley answered. "Too great a risk that we cause damage that can't be reversed. The only time field we know that's stable enough is Khonsu, and there's no way we can use that option. We considered using Coil's power, but we're not sure how it'll work with power interactions. They're all Taboo, and we don't know enough about Coil's power to determine how it works or what blocks it might have in regards to Taboo. We can't risk his life with it. We've talked to Dinah as well, but until we can give her a concrete plan, she can't give us an answer. Besides, her power can't handle Taboo, either."


"There really isn't anything we can do, is there?" I finally admitted.


"Not with the powers we currently have," Riley sighed. "If we could have scanned his brain, it might have been possible to have Lily kill him so we could clone him. But copying off a dead brain would be bad."


I don't know why I thought I'd be able to imagine up a solution in a few minutes that they'd been spending all week working on. "Sorry," I muttered. "I wish there was something more I could do to help. My power doesn't work on him, either. We'll find a way." LoveSupport. Taylor hugged me and Riley both. The height difference between Riley and I was only a few inches, really. Less than the height gap between Taylor and I.


"We'll worry about it more in the morning," Taylor offered. "Maybe we can ask Eidolon if he'll do us a favor. Or call in one of the ones Cauldron owes us. They've got a really powerful precog of their own, and with all the powers out there, there has to be one that can do the job."


Thank you.


======================

A/N- Solution: Have Glaistig Uaine kill him, then plug him back into a new body. If she can out-bullshit Grey Boy, she can kill Zach.

 

[Daunmi]

"Actually, Vicky," I smiled. She knew how to cheer me up a bit, at least. "We're foreign dignitaries. We don't have to pay taxes."

Click to shrink...

Ah HA! So you finally reveal the reason they went through all this. Killing Jack, cleaning the city, killing Simurgh, everything. All of it just to end up with their own world where they could avoid having to fill out tax forms.

That's actually a pretty good idea. Anyone know where I can find an endbringer that'll be killable for someone with my... less then stellar abilities?

 

[Inverness]

My vote's on Eidolon. Maybe he has some new power available now that he is recharging his stores. He doesn't get featured enough in Worm fanfiction, IMHO.

 

[GiftofLove]

Eidolon can run a power negater, that resurrection one he used before, and just let Amelia fix him. Reviving him as needed until it sticks.

 

[CptTagon]

It's nice to see that Amelia is aware of her responsibilities as guardian to Riley, and that she's willing to make sacrifices for her charge's happiness and well-being. Again, a very mature stance for a teenager to take.

 

[Deltawaves1]

Eidolon can run a power negater, that resurrection one he used before, and just let Amelia fix him. Reviving him as needed until it sticks.

Click to shrink...

He wouldn't risk a power nulifier as it would risk nullifying his own power/s. There by putting him back at square one power wise.

Edit: just had a brain wave that if a shard which "nulify all shards but this one" was a thing then they probably would be throwing it at golden boy. Regardless of eidolons otherwise large combat potential without it.

 

[Ack]

Chapter 254 - D'awwwwwwwwwwww.

Chapter 255 - Less d'awwww but still nice.

That is all.

 

[edale]

But then my girlfriend will hunt you down, skin you alive, and wear you like a suit.

... Man was that an awkward way to start off the new year...

Click to shrink...

It puts the lotion on it's skin or it gets the hose again.

 

[GladiusLucix]

Something that no one has commented on about the "Tohu copies Taylor" thing, is that, just by taking control, Tohu probably was at least somewhat in on the Taylia bond. Whether it did anything with it other than "lol, I'm in ur link, stealin ur doods" remains to be seen, but whatever effect it had on Amelia's shard could be why she was having trouble getting rezzed.

And completely separately, does Yggdrasil have anything in common with the material shards are made from? It's a little late, but being able to use almost any form of energy or matter seems like something the Entities would have been using for a while, if they could.