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Balancing Like with Dislike

thought on it more and my opinion: If this would apply ONLY to "content" then maybe.
That is a possibility, since it's only content and not subject to a specific poster getting dogpiled for an opinion. Though would probably be fairly difficult to implement.
I will admit I have questioned how much people hate what I Post, how far a Dislike Button would plummet confirming what I already Know in objective subjectivity. But honestly I much rather would have the SV System or at least some wacky QQ unique Reactions alongside the normal Like, but that introduces all sorts of problems and is quite likely I wouldn't remember its Existence anymore then I already do with the current Like Button so it's less maintenance to have it simplified.
Honestly wish the various engagement buttons were a bit larger. The like/quote/reply buttons could do to be about 50-100% larger, or at least a bit more contrasting with the various backgrounds we have as it's often easy to gloss past them if you're not paying attention. (I personally uses Firefox's page zoom between 170-240% just to read on this site sometimes) There's a reason why youtubers do the 'like and subscribe' schtick because most people are glazing over scrolling content. I've noticed on occasion that youtube will flash a little rainbow effect through the like and subscribe button when the creator says it, impling some AI algorithmic fuckery afoot but the sentiment is largely the same. Encouraging more people to engage with the systems in place would probably give more feedback than adding further systems to it.

Which also makes me think. In absense of dislikes or other 'balancing' metrics, giving users the option to elevate stories to greater visibility would probably work better in the long run. I know SB and SV toyed with featured stories or the like, and both have a recently awarded/gilded posts on their front page perhaps QQ could do something similar with a pane alongside the forum statistics tab, a 'the most liked new chapters/commented posts/etc.' with an arbitrary cut off of like 24hrs or something before it changes over? That shouldn't be too difficult to implement and could certainly encourage more engagement from the readers to make a story more popular?

Speaking as a mod, it would likely cause many headaches.
I said as much in my first post. Creating a new metric obviously comes with the caveat of needing more moderation for that metric to make sure it's not abused. It's a downside certainly but not a dealbreaker all the time if the community is large enough to require that kind of engagement. QQ fortunately does not right now.
 
Which also makes me think. In absense of dislikes or other 'balancing' metrics, giving users the option to elevate stories to greater visibility would probably work better in the long run. I know SB and SV toyed with featured stories or the like, and both have a recently awarded/gilded posts on their front page perhaps QQ could do something similar with a pane alongside the forum statistics tab, a 'the most liked new chapters/commented posts/etc.' with an arbitrary cut off of like 24hrs or something before it changes over? That shouldn't be too difficult to implement and could certainly encourage more engagement from the readers to make a story more popular?
I know Summertime Madness (who I see has since been made staff) set up an automated post which ranks SB fics weekly in different metrics, like new 'pages of discussion', 'reactions per day', and 'new watchers per day'. They do separate ones for quests and original fiction. I think they even posted the code they're using to do it, though I don't have that to hand. They used to do it on SV as well, but there was some kind of problem, and I think they've been too busy to troubleshoot.

Something like the above for QQ seems like it could be straightforwardly good and useful. I might go find the post where they posted their code later, but that isn't something I'd personally be able to do anything with (not tech-y).

Edit: Here's where they posted the latest code.





Regarding awarding/gilding posts, *shrugs*, I don't know much about it (aside from it seeming similar to Reddit's thing), but I don't think I'd be against it. I'm definitely not opposed to QQ getting more money, though I'd wonder if that might be better spent supporting the actual content creator. I suppose a profit sharing thing could be set up, or a straight donation system, but then are we just setting up the same virality based creator economy that the rest of the internet is based on?

Idk, just idle musings. Seems like there'd be a lot of things to consider before implementing that kinda thing anyway.
 
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Oh. It seems someone opened Pandora's box, which might be an apt metaphor for dislikes.

Funny enough, the only place I've actually liked having dislikes is YouTube. On most other sites, they just bolted them on, letting people run wild with them.

That said, I don't even think Likes matter much here. They seem more like 'kudos', a way for people to avoid spamming 'Thanks for the chapter' or similar posts. In that regard, I could say that likes are at least a useful for this site.
 
I know Summertime Madness (who I see has since been made staff) set up an automated post which ranks SB fics weekly in different metrics, like new 'pages of discussion', 'reactions per day', and 'new watchers per day'. They do separate ones for quests and original fiction. I think they even posted the code they're using to do it, though I don't have that to hand. They used to do it on SV as well, but there was some kind of problem, and I think they've been too busy to troubleshoot.

Something like the above for QQ seems like it could be straightforwardly good and useful. I might go find the post where they posted their code later, but that isn't something I'd personally be able to do anything with (not tech-y).

Edit: Here's where they posted the latest code.
Huh, neat. It looks pretty interesting and not overly technical, though not sure how you'd implement it in a way the site could display natively rather than having a user post that information themselves. Then again having a dedicated 'stat slave' bot making posts each week is certainly a work around and would probably be easier to display more varied/detailed statistics.
Regarding awarding/gilding posts, *shrugs*, I don't know much about it (aside from it seeming similar to Reddit's thing), but I don't think I'd be against it. I'm definitely not opposed to QQ getting more money, though I'd wonder if that might be better spent supporting the actual content creator. I suppose a profit sharing thing could be set up, or a straight donation system, but then are we just setting up the same virality based creator economy that the rest of the internet is based on?

Idk, just idle musings. Seems like there'd be a lot of things to consider before implementing that kinda thing anyway.
Eh I'm not really hung up on the gilding thing, it was more of a 'these posts are getting high amounts of engagement, lets show that off to the site that might otherwise not see it.' kind of deal. Could also be compared and contrasted with the occasional highlight of new stories that are doing okay-ish to help drum up interest. I know I wouldn't have read some stories without reccomendation or slumming through the Quote Pit thread, simply because the title wasn't very evocative or I didn't know much about the setting but was otherwise a really fun and entertaining story.

A bit leery about a monetization system, donations are fine but setting up infrastructure to pay creators like that outside of dedicated systems like patron or subscribestar feels like it'd be drawing the Eye of Sauron a bit too heavily.
 
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I know Summertime Madness set up an automated post which ranks SB fics weekly in different metrics, like new 'pages of discussion', 'reactions per day', and 'new watchers per day'. They do separate ones for quests and original fiction. I think they even posted the code they're using to do it, though I don't have that to hand. They used to do it on SV as well, but there was some kind of problem, and I think they've been too busy to troubleshoot.

Something like the above for QQ seems like it could be straightforwardly good and useful. I might go find the post where they posted their code later, but that isn't something I'd personally be able to do anything with (not tech-y).
Oh, that actually has been so useful at expanding my backlog of Tabs for Reading. It reminded me of a project someone else stopped in... 2019? I think? I Know it was before the 20s... In which they basically consolidated 'Fics from SV, SB, and FFN. Seem to recall they also Posted to SV. I... think they also did QQ? Although seem to recall they kept slamming into problems with the Code among other issues forcing them to stop. So I have been wondering how long the SB project will be able to keep up even with it limited to their own internal monitoring till DigiDemons start eating the programming.

Would certainly help with looking for Stories on here but even from an outsiders' Perspective it's blatantly a properly time consuming project practically made for problems to crop up every second.

That said, I don't even think Likes matter much here. They seem more like 'kudos', a way for people to avoid spamming 'Thanks for the chapter' or similar posts. In that regard, I could say that likes are at least a useful for this site.
And even then it's still being spammed anyway.
 
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I know Summertime Madness (who I see has since been made staff) set up an automated post which ranks SB fics weekly in different metrics, like new 'pages of discussion', 'reactions per day', and 'new watchers per day'. They do separate ones for quests and original fiction. I think they even posted the code they're using to do it, though I don't have that to hand. They used to do it on SV as well, but there was some kind of problem, and I think they've been too busy to troubleshoot.

Something like the above for QQ seems like it could be straightforwardly good and useful. I might go find the post where they posted their code later, but that isn't something I'd personally be able to do anything with (not tech-y).
I remember seeing in the announcement that they were made mod on SB so that they could access the page/reacts/watchers information more easily. It could be that SV didn't want to mod them?

I agree, as someone who spends more time on QQ than SB I find most SB stories from that thread. Adding the SummertimeMadness thread to QQ could be helpful for people who are the opposite of me.


A bit leery about a monetization system, donations are fine but setting up infrastructure to pay creators like that outside of dedicated systems like patron or subscribestar feels like it'd be drawing the Eye of Sauron a bit too heavily.
I like the Ao3 donation model. Donations are open all year long but they have a short time period where they remind people about it with an accessible (and presumably necessary) goal. Plus it all goes the site/organization behind it so you avoid the typical paid fanfic issues.
 
I will admit I have questioned how much people hate what I Post, how far a Dislike Button would plummet confirming what I already Know in objective subjectivity. But honestly I much rather would have the SV System or at least some wacky QQ unique Reactions alongside the normal Like, but that introduces all sorts of problems and is quite likely I wouldn't remember its Existence anymore then I already do with the current Like Button so it's less maintenance to have it simplified.
So what you're saying is, we don't need a horny button?
 
I somewhat disagree with this on principle. In a similar way to why I disagree with Youtube removing it's dislike button. Not many people want to waste significant fractions of their day on something they'll ultimately dislike and having a handy like-to-dislike ratio can help people make informed at-a-glance judgements on if they should waste the time. Yes that's not always perfect and on polarizing subjects it can be hit or miss depending on who is engaging with the content the most but QQ doesn't necessarily have to worry about the overarching issues with such a system. 1. Because most importantly QQ generally doesn't allow polarizing subjects as a matter of dis/course. (Rule 8 being the big one) 2. You have to be a member to upvote as well as the overall size of the site you don't necessarily have to worry about a botnet making hundreds or thousands of socks to downvote someones content into oblivion. (nevermind that would quickly get all the socks/users using those socks banned) 3. Malicious downvotes can fairly easily be recognized because the moderation of the site are actually people, rather than canned responses from AI that politely tell you to get fucked and cry about it.

Now saying all that. I don't think QQ needs a downvote system. The site is small enough and not devoted to rabid contentious discourse and hot takes needing to be ratio'd like that. It's a site for lewds, generally if you dislike something it's going to be the fetishes on display that are going to get the most vocal dislike, followed closely by your standard story foilables (Bad characterization, story telling, worldbuilding, etc.) Any thing after that, you're just disliking to be a hater, and QQ doesn't really need that at the moment, if ever.

Also it'd make more work for the mods who are for the most part chill, making more work for them and maybe making them not chill in the process is the exact opposite of what the users should want.
I'd disagree with you there.

For YouTube, the dislike button was a way to self-moderate after the site went mainstream and grew beyond means or motive for its staff to moderate. It was not a good solution, but it was a least-bad solution to parse enormous amount of content as a community and fight back against bots, scams, etc. Because if people did nothing, nothing would get done.

Compare and contrast QQ: the site is much smaller, the moderation team is very responsive (even if I/you/we the people disagree with some moderation decisions, it can not be denied that the moderation team put in some serious work into making the site operate smoothly and enforce the rules in a consistent, mostly unbiased manner).

This is before we get into content type: on YouTube, users primarily arrive to consume the content (or produce it, either way the flow of data is usually mono-directional at any one time) with comments generally being less important. It's generally harder to establish dialogue with the author regarding feedback - if it's even possible. The point is, YouTube is a video hosting site, primarily, and it would continue to function even without comments enabled (like it's already happening for videos forcibly or voluntarily marked "for kids") or any kind of feedback at all (with algorithm being optimized, likes no longer matter that much in determining which videos you will watch - some media will be served up to you directly while other, potentially higher-quality content will be shadowbanned)

QQ however is not a fanfic archive. It's a forum. It's a place to share and debate opinions. It requires engagement to function properly - doomscrolling is generally not healthy for the ecosystem and low-comment threads tend to be the ones that die after the first threadmark or five. To come to a forum to post a fiction is to request feedback, and this is something that should be embraced. If one has already planned everything out and does not intend to make any major changes... there's AO3. There's FF.net. There's even Wattpad. All places with large userbases focused on consuming content rather than the back and forth characteristic of constructive criticism.

Silvercrystal said in few words what we could argue over for hours, but from my personal experience in CrW and Questing, using [X] quest format for determining the future of a story works better because one has to enter and engage with the thread before contributing as opposed to doing a flyby on a sticky poll at the top of a page. I've seen a heavily lopsided results on those where the most canon-popular or most generically-attractive character would win, even if another would (at least to me) make more sense in-story.
Which also makes me think. In absence of dislikes or other 'balancing' metrics, giving users the option to elevate stories to greater visibility would probably work better in the long run. I know SB and SV toyed with featured stories or the like, and both have a recently awarded/gilded posts on their front page perhaps QQ could do something similar with a pane alongside the forum statistics tab, a 'the most liked new chapters/commented posts/etc.' with an arbitrary cut off of like 24hrs or something before it changes over? That shouldn't be too difficult to implement and could certainly encourage more engagement from the readers to make a story more popular?
Now this, makes sense.
Giving good threads more visibility, promoting good content, expanding users' options for expression - all very good. I also like the SB mechanism re: awards in that they are not expensive, but not free and thus not spammable; something someone would use on a story without a reason.
 

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