Bismarck ISOTed to RMS Titanic - and U-234

[Bandaid]

Consider following (fictional) newspaper headline in january 1916: "Prince Ferdinand found alive! War cancelled!"

...do you really think the war would have ended there and there? No? No. Most definitely not. And that means the war really wasn't about him. He was the spark. No more, no less. The weight of the armies alone in 1914 more or less demanded they be used for "something".

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As I wrote, I consider it unlikely that the Great War can be prevented. However, not impossible.

Lets see, as for Germany, they will know what a desaster it turned out to be and they will know that they are not nearly ready for it. Also, presumably, someone will whack the Kaiser over his head for his various diplomatic blunders. And the imperial high command, or at least signifcant portions of it, will get whacked much harder. Scrapping the Schliefen Plan and not marching trough Belgium will make it much harder for Britain to enter the war.

Speaking of Britain, they will be very cautious about engaging Germany because of: A: The presumed capabilities of the new German Battleship and even more important B: The fact that Bismarck popped out of nowhere so there might be even more Bismarcks in whatever hole the first Bismarck sailed out from. Until they are sure Bismarck is the only one of its kind the belief in British superiourity at sea will be deeply shaken.

Austria can be told how compromised they are trough Redl. That should dampen war enthusiasm for the forseeable future from that corner once they realize just how fucked they are.

As for the Ottomans, Germany could try to mediate between Italy and the Ottomans, shortening that war. Then try to prob up the Ottomans in an attempt to stabilize the Balkans. If the sick man of Europe looks not quite as sick anymore...

I am not saying it will be easy or cheap and it will depend on a lot of factors. All I am saying it is possible. Unlikely but possible.

 

[ATP]

As I wrote, I consider it unlikely that the Great War can be prevented. However, not impossible.

Lets see, as for Germany, they will know what a desaster it turned out to be and they will know that they are not nearly ready for it. Also, presumably, someone will whack the Kaiser over his head for his various diplomatic blunders. And the imperial high command, or at least signifcant portions of it, will get whacked much harder. Scrapping the Schliefen Plan and not marching trough Belgium will make it much harder for Britain to enter the war.

Speaking of Britain, they will be very cautious about engaging Germany because of: A: The presumed capabilities of the new German Battleship and even more important B: The fact that Bismarck popped out of nowhere so there might be even more Bismarcks in whatever hole the first Bismarck sailed out from. Until they are sure Bismarck is the only one of its kind the belief in British superiourity at sea will be deeply shaken.

Austria can be told how compromised they are trough Redl. That should dampen war enthusiasm for the forseeable future from that corner once they realize just how fucked they are.

As for the Ottomans, Germany could try to mediate between Italy and the Ottomans, shortening that war. Then try to prob up the Ottomans in an attempt to stabilize the Balkans. If the sick man of Europe looks not quite as sick anymore...

I am not saying it will be easy or cheap and it will depend on a lot of factors. All I am saying it is possible. Unlikely but possible.

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Unfortunatelly,not possible at all.
1.Germans had very good plan - use Schiefen plan to take Paris in 1914,and destroy russian army in 1915.After that,England must sue for peace.
But,german made traditional german mistake - made good plan,but not others if main plan failed.Even worst,they fucked Schiefen plan by sending part of army designated to take Paris to fight russian.Stupid - even if Russia take East Prussia,german would still have Paris and knock France out of the war.
German lost WW1 only thanks tp their own mistakes.

2.England wonted war with Germany,becouse Germany built big oceanic fleet.Only scrapping it could prevent England from seeking war with Germany.Belgium was pretext.

3.A-H knew that they are fucked,but Germans lied,that they send their army to crush Russia first.If A-H knew that,they would do anything to prevent war.

4.weak Ottoman mean war in Balkans,but instead of helping them,why not help Bulgars&others take Constantinopole in 1912 ? both approach would work.

5.Becouse every mayor player wonted war,it could not be stopped. And becouse germans from 1941 thought thet they are winning war,they had no reason to seek peace.Only those from U-boot.

 

[Rizkyss]

tyr anzasi, will you post your other tl in here?

 

[Tyr Anazasi]

tyr anzasi, will you post your other tl in here?

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I tried to do so, but it is appearantly against the rules. It would involve modern politicians and thus break the rule not to talk about modern politics. Thus I went to yet another two forums:

https://www.frozenincarbonite.org/threads/merkels-operation-walküre-story-only.1625/

https://www.the-sietch.com/index.php?threads/merkels-operation-walküre-story-only.2818/

The discussion threads are there, too.

 

[ATP]

I tried to do so, but it is appearantly against the rules. It would involve modern politicians and thus break the rule not to talk about modern politics. Thus I went to yet another two forums:

https://www.frozenincarbonite.org/threads/merkels-operation-walküre-story-only.1625/

https://www.the-sietch.com/index.php?threads/merkels-operation-walküre-story-only.2818/

The discussion threads are there, too.

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Then you should not add President Trump as comic relief.Merkel in 1944 would be no modern politics,just like making american and polish politics from 1944 bunch of idiots.
I undarstandt,that you do not like USA and Poland, but they made enough of real mistakes in 1944,so you no need to made them some fictional.

 

[GeshronTyler]

Ah, I was wondering if this story would show up here. Imperial Germany will have to work hard to find solutions to their vulnerabilities in regards to strategic materials and access to the sea lanes being cut off by their enemies on their land borders, and rival naval powers. It doesn't really matter what Germany does, any expansion of capability in industry and the military will be seen as a threat, primarily by France and England. The best bet I think would be to strengthen the domestic agriculture, industry, and transportation/infrastructure, over trying to immediately expand/reform the military. Unfortunately, the people in charge are invested in the plans and concepts they had historically, it remains to be seen how flexible and innovative they can be when faced with such an OoC stimulus.

The big butterfly could be strengthening ties to the US, to counterbalance British and French influences somewhat, so the US would stay more readily neutral in a European conflict. Certainly, European wars were anything but rare, and it took quite a bit of effort by France and Britain, plus some mistakes by Germany, before the US entered the war as Germany's enemy...

Those Enigma machines are going to cause a lot of frustration for spies, when they start being reverse engineered, and mass produced. Frankly, it may not take all that long before a machine gets stolen/captured, but even then, without Turing's code breaking computer, Enigma encryption is practically unbreakable.

 

[ATP]

Ah, I was wondering if this story would show up here. Imperial Germany will have to work hard to find solutions to their vulnerabilities in regards to strategic materials and access to the sea lanes being cut off by their enemies on their land borders, and rival naval powers. It doesn't really matter what Germany does, any expansion of capability in industry and the military will be seen as a threat, primarily by France and England. The best bet I think would be to strengthen the domestic agriculture, industry, and transportation/infrastructure, over trying to immediately expand/reform the military. Unfortunately, the people in charge are invested in the plans and concepts they had historically, it remains to be seen how flexible and innovative they can be when faced with such an OoC stimulus.

The big butterfly could be strengthening ties to the US, to counterbalance British and French influences somewhat, so the US would stay more readily neutral in a European conflict. Certainly, European wars were anything but rare, and it took quite a bit of effort by France and Britain, plus some mistakes by Germany, before the US entered the war as Germany's enemy...

Those Enigma machines are going to cause a lot of frustration for spies, when they start being reverse engineered, and mass produced. Frankly, it may not take all that long before a machine gets stolen/captured, but even then, without Turing's code breaking computer, Enigma encryption is practically unbreakable.

Click to shrink...

Not needed.All Germans in OTL needed was not change Schielffen plan.France would fall in 1914,Russia in 1915.And we have german Europe in 1916.Of course, Russia nad France would ,as a result,start WW2 after they catch up with technology.What could we have, then ? A bomb used in 1940 ?