Doc Sithicus
Not too sore, are you?
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2019
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Reminding me of an episode of Boondocks I saw a decade ago or something (black KKK member)
Uncle Ruckus (No Relation) was the best.
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Reminding me of an episode of Boondocks I saw a decade ago or something (black KKK member)
The trick here is that ex-cons are just as susceptible of being the target of hate crimes as anyone else. Moreso, even.What I think happend is that Taylor had her own experience with being falsely accused (of a hatecrime). She then checked the newspapers expecting to find examples of hatecrimes, and was suprised to find several false accusations (according to her experience). Was shocked, thought "E88 not bad?" then confirmed E88 bad, but newspapers lying too.
Dave Chapelle. The Black Grand Wizard who was blind his whole life and didn't know he was black.In this case, she is saying its not a Nazi hate crime due to the fact the perpetrator is black...unless the E88 has black members. Reminding me of an episode of Boondocks I saw a decade ago or something (black KKK member)
Uncle Ruckus wasn't black. That's an easy mistake to make. He is white but suffers from re-vitiligo. He has no blood relation to his black parents because he was actually a white baby abandoned on their porch and adopted by them.Dave Chapelle. The Black Grand Wizard who was blind his whole life and didn't know he was black.
You might have been thinking of UncleCletusRuckus, a recurring white supremacist character in Boondocks who was himself black.
He later does a genetic scan and finds out he's 102% african (with 2% variance)Uncle Ruckus wasn't black. That's an easy mistake to make. He is white but suffers from re-vitiligo. He has no blood relation to his black parents because he was actually a white baby abandoned on their porch and adopted by them.
Drugs are bad, mmkay"Oh wait, Merchant propaganda is 'drugs are good, you should take lots of drugs' "
Propaganda? More like fact, drugs are awesome.
I thought it was gonna be a "she thought it was Armsy asking but it was Coil" tweeest too, but that's damn good point.IMO if it had been Coil we wouldn't have heard: whether or not he got the info he would've closed the simulation, as half his shtick is projecting competence.
The issue is that the Empire are being protrayed as effectively heroic, they ahve not commited one evil act in the entire fic, its an organizaiton that has bloodings as an initiation, they run dog fighting rings, fighting pits with unwilling participants, public executions as a rally opener and actively kidnap and sell independents to the European branch as seen with Night and Fog. But every last incident involving them so far, including past incidents she went out of her way to investigate shows them as just a "misunderstood group of well meaning Americans that happen to not be PC".Wherever this story goes, I really hope it follows the authors vision and isn't railroaded into virtue signalling because some readers don't like having their nice, simple "White people evil oppressors, all minorities oppressed victims" narrative challenged.
It's really good to see a story that takes a more nuanced, realistic approach to this (well, as realistic as a story about modern day American Nazis in a world with superpowers really can be).
I think it was the former. I know the character was an actual KKK member, who was revealed as black during a meeting (he was born blind, and apparently was never told he was black).Dave Chapelle. The Black Grand Wizard who was blind his whole life and didn't know he was black.
You might have been thinking of UncleCletusRuckus, a recurring white supremacist character in Boondocks who was himself black.
I think it was the former. I know the character was an actual KKK member, who was revealed as black during a meeting
The issue is that the Empire are being protrayed as effectively heroic, they ahve not commited one evil act in the entire fic, its an organizaiton that has bloodings as an initiation, they run dog fighting rings, fighting pits with unwilling participants, public executions as a rally opener and actively kidnap and sell independents to the European branch as seen with Night and Fog. But every last incident involving them so far, including past incidents she went out of her way to investigate shows them as just a "misunderstood group of well meaning Americans that happen to not be PC".
This is not "virtue signaling" or "white people evil oppressors" reactionary commentary, this is legit concern that a group who's core tactics involve regular hate crimes and nazi ideology is being presented as basically 4-chan shitters in a neighborhood watch and all their biases are being shown as correct. With the accusations of hate crimes being, so far, all sensationalized by the news and just violent vigilantism.
The reaction would be the same if Taylor was infiltrating the ABB and they were portrayed as honorable yakuza despite the fuckers being directly involved in human trafficking, or if she was infiltrating the merchants and they were portrayed "just randos wanting to have some harmless fun" despite the bloodsports and the forced addiction.
This was much more true, and I was much more on board with your perspective here, before this most recent chapter in which the evidence from Taylors research seems to suggest (more on that in a second) that the E88 actually doesn't commit hate crimes after all -- just vigilante justice -- and that the one example of an inexcusable hate crime that Taylor thought she'd found turned out in the end to have been committed by a black person. Which the media had reported as a hate crime with eye-witnesses anyway, just to further an apprently false narrative about the E88 committing hate crimes.Taylor seems entirely clear that the Empire is bad, its just that the individual members in the gang aren't portrayed as caricatures of "evil white supremacists" but rather as people who happen to subscribe to an ideology that is extremely unpopular. The fact that the gang does incredibly immoral and illegal things isn't glossed over at all.
Either way, I'm less interested in metacommentary and more enjoying the story and the fact that author is brave enough to represent these things more fairly than is usually allowed by people who think that any depiction outside their own media-fed worldview must be censored and attacked.
Well, given how these things usually go, the black guy was probably innocent of that shooting. White supremacists tend to have inroads with law enforcement.
Oh I thought the author was implying that it actually was a white supremacist attack but that some corrupt and racist police officers blamed the attack on a minority dude to take the heat off the Empire
Fair enough, not the place for this kind of debate.As someone noted, to not go into RL events. That way lie Rule 8 warnings.
Sure, agreed.
Less sure on this point. I'm on board for a story about Taylor in the E88, possibly even a story about Taylor getting slowly radicalized by the E88 (which is seeming more and more likely). If it becomes clear that this is, in fact, a Nazi story about Taylor in the E88, the author will have lost me.
Vigilante justice is still blatantly illegal (maybe not in Worm, but it's Worm, so the moral standards have degraded anyway), and vigilante justice conveniently only aimed at black people is also heavily indicative of those crimes being hate crimes first and foremost, with a flimsy excuse of vigilante justice (still illegal) as a given reason.doesn't commit hate crimes after all -- just vigilante justice
Second that.Keep writing the story the way you want to, author, we're all enjoying it!
I feel like she has likely been radicalized since she triggered (whether with Shard mentality, [Exalted] God mentality, or Exalted mentality makes little difference to the fact it is an alien/sociopathic mentality), but I can see what you are going for as well. Her history with how the right side of the law allowed for her life to be turned into hell definitely isn't helping matters (even if it is nowhere close to how she thinks everything happened)possibly even a story about Taylor getting slowly radicalized by the E88 (which is seeming more and more likely). If it becomes clear that this is, in fact, a Nazi story about Taylor in the E88, the author will have lost me
The key question would be if she found white racists, would she treat them the same (personally, I think she would based on her losing it once she saw what the guys were doing)? Would the answer change depending on whether she was geared up as Low Key with E88 watching? That is the big one for me as of this moment.Vigilante justice is still blatantly illegal (maybe not in Worm, but it's Worm, so the moral standards have degraded anyway), and vigilante justice conveniently only aimed at black people is also heavily indicative of those crimes being hate crimes first and foremost, with a flimsy excuse of vigilante justice (still illegal) as a given reason.
Taylor did straight up mutilate some black guys with vastly excessive force as well (which isn't exactly okay even in Worm), as part of the E88, so yeah, "E88 evil" seems pretty clear to me.
Taylor not finding those crimes objectionable (sans the one) says a lot more about Taylor being high on power (again, she's Exalted, that's how they roll) than it does about the E88 being anything even closely resembling good.
Basically how i feel about this yeah, up until the newspaper segment I found it mostly amusing or interesting, but that segment making it canon that Empire hatecrimes are mostly the amount of vigilante violence you would expect of a regular OC vigilante cape and a media fabrication is worrisome to me.That goes a little beyond just not portraying the E88 members as caricatures of white supremacists. And, rather than "glossing over" that they do immoral and illegal things, it seems to actively suggest that they don't actually do hate crimes because those are all either media fabrications or exaggerations of their (supposedly justified) vigilante actions.
I can't speak for everyone here, but that's what I'm worried about. Until this chapter, I was with you. It's the newspaper research segment in particular that's making me question whether this is really just a story that's not afraid to take a more human perspective.
Well, there is the thing with Hookwolf literally breaking her limbs multiple times a week. We know Taylor doesn't really give a shit, but Kaiser has no reason to assume that and so it doesn't quite fit with a carefully curated experience.Get your newbies feeling like they belong, and thoroughly associated with the E88 in the public eye, before you start asking them to do things they might find... uncomfortable.
Fair, but he did so in an effect to get her to pay attention-- if she'd responded like a normal human being it would have happened like once and then she'd have taken things seriously. If she couldn't handle a single broken limb, she wouldn't be much use to the Empire anyway.Well, there is the thing with Hookwolf literally breaking her limbs multiple times a week. We know Taylor doesn't really give a shit, but Kaiser has no reason to assume that and so it doesn't quite fit with a carefully curated experience.