Dungeon Crawler Quest(Original Fantasy)

[Grosstoad]

This time, you advocated for the one where we are an entire level below the minimum required to take it.

Click to shrink...

+coughs+

If you take a look at some of these recent Dungeons the party did, most of them are above our levels.

Ice Queen's Castle D-Rank (party 4, lv 8-9) = Last update
Goblin' Glade C-Rank (party 3, lv 6-8) = First C-Rank, more Goblin Bosses
Ashen Grotto's D-Rank (party 3, lv 7-9) = Ashen Grotto, Lazer Snake edition


EDIT: Not to mention, his current vote is a copy of mine, which is Ash Snake Nest at the Mines, a minimum level 5, if I remember right.

 

[a2znut]

+coughs+

If you take a look at some of these recent Dungeons the party did, most of them are above our levels.

Ice Queen's Castle D-Rank (party 4, lv 8-9) = Last update
Goblin' Glade C-Rank (party 3, lv 6-8) = First C-Rank, more Goblin Bosses
Ashen Grotto's D-Rank (party 3, lv 7-9) = Ashen Grotto, Lazer Snake edition

Click to shrink...

That's level cap, max you can be to actually run it. Mission actually says minimum level. Also, there are more party members versus the recommended amount too. Action economy means quantity > quality for those that aren't full party like the missions selected before. Do you think it is possible to run Goblin C with only three people as of now or how about run Lazer Snake edition with three?

 

[Darkened]

"I suppose I can use it as a pet upgrade," Maya muses. You blink, when did she get here? She's gotten fast, "I'm nearly at B rank for my job too, so after today I think I want to do a few missions to get point writs, so that I can rank up wind elementalist without having to change jobs."

Click to shrink...

Maya asked to do missions AFTER TODAY.

She has not yet hit B rank.

At least get confirmation from Yrs that the mission would still likely be available, B: We have time to go back to town, find the quest giver, get the details and go do the mission and return before dark.





Also Ashen Grotto D has a maximum of 7, not 9, and, you know, those minimum ranges seem to be entirely your creation, while the maximums are not the same meaning as the minimum level to choose a quest at all.

 

[Grosstoad]

Oh, wait, yeah, my bad. Ashen Grotto D-rank is 6-7.

Regarding Maya, she is close to B-rank, so she wants to have the writs beforehand, thus requiring minimal time to set up. Maybe she didn't specify today, but she does want to dip into Missions.

Regarding availability of Missions, I think you have to depend on checking the Boards, which is now made part of the pre-Morning choice and updated on each Evening Action. This is already lenient.
Getting confirmation without checking the Board is very lenient. Getting confirmation that it still exists or not after each Action is going to be confusing and eat updates. I don't know which Yrs will pick.

a2znut Darkened
On minimum range to Dungeons, I believe you can enter at level 1 on any of those Dungeons, if you are able to (have party member that have done of the required Rank or the one before), but stating that Ashen Grotto D-rank is level 1-7 is not a good comparison. It is more correct to state AG's D-rank is 6-7 since the C-rank is capped at level 5.

Dungeon's party parameter is a recommendation by the system, and I am assuming 'fair play', where a normal party within the recommended parameters have 50-50 chance of surviving. A prepared party with the right skill, gear, element, information, and tactics will have a better chance though.

On the other hand, Mission's party parameter is an assumption by the Mission-giver, and I assume that they have a consideration for safety factor and margin. Though the information might not always be correct, but wrong intel does not happen at a 100% rate anyway.

So, are we going to have to assume that every assumed minimum level X will have actual content of something arbitrarily high? Then we will do no Missions at all.

Strawmanning it, a normal lv 1 Herb Run might actually have a level 9 monster with one-hit laser breath waiting in sidelines, a delivery in town will have upsurge of monsters from the sewers, etc. That is simply fear-mongering, and going to be too extreme an assumption.

I prefer to assume minimum level 7 is going to be at a range of 5-9, some above, some below, because information is not always right, but they might also overestimate it.

 

[a2znut]

I prefer to assume that when it says minimum level, it means minimum level. Otherwise, it'll be like the other identifiers, with recommended before it.

 

[Darkened]

a2znut Darkened
On minimum range to Dungeons, I believe you can enter at level 1 on any of those Dungeons, if you are able to (have party member that have done of the required Rank or the one before), but stating that Ashen Grotto D-rank is level 1-7 is not a good comparison. It is more correct to state AG's D-rank is 6-7 since the C-rank is capped at level 5.

Click to shrink...

However, the fact remains that it's your inference. And it's not a very great one either. For one, the system you suggest leaves no real room for evaluating E ranks, or for high level dungeons where the raw difference between a 62 E rank and a 65 D is not going to be particularly huge.

Likewise there are many cases where a dungeon's range is probably smaller than the gap.

For example if we have a level 8 D rank and a level 12 C, that's a fairly wide gap. However at 10 we get the auction house, a new gear slot, etc. So it'd be more honest to think "try it at 12"

Ultimately we don't know if (party size equal) a level 5 mission compares to higher level dungeons.

We don't know, ergo we should avoid picking missions above our level until we do or there's a compelling need to justify the risk.

Dungeon's party parameter is a recommendation by the system, and I am assuming 'fair play', where a normal party within the recommended parameters have 50-50 chance of surviving. A prepared party with the right skill, gear, element, information, and tactics will have a better chance though.

Click to shrink...

I, err, kinda doubt this. 50% odds are terrible when you only ever get to lose once. Categorically, for an appropriate party of the recommended size, an E-C rank dungeon should be eminently doable, with relatively small odds of failure.

 

[Guile]

I prefer to assume that when it says minimum level, it means minimum level. Otherwise, it'll be like the other identifiers, with recommended before it.

Click to shrink...

Why would Yrs give us two missions that we dare not try, being level 6s to its minimum level 7?

 

[a2znut]

Why would Yrs give us two missions that we dare not try, being level 6s to its minimum level 7?

Click to shrink...

Because the missions are for everyone in the city, not just you. The entire city doesn't revolve around us.

 

[Guile]

Because the missions are for everyone in the city, not just you. The entire city doesn't revolve around us.

Click to shrink...

I think there's more than 5 missions in the entire city, boss.

I don't know, maybe it's just super convenient for Alice that all the missions in the entire city are level 4-7!

 

[Cassiemouse]

Because the missions are for everyone in the city, not just you. The entire city doesn't revolve around us.

Click to shrink...

Yea, sure, there might be other missions that other Branded have access to but the missions Yrsillar puts in the thread are the ones he things our party can do.

Man, you guys are really risk adverse. If we keep doing boring grinding then the quest is going to be boring. We need to do exciting and interesting stuff even if someone dies because of it.

 

[a2znut]

I think there's more than 5 missions in the entire city, boss.

I don't know, maybe it's just super convenient for Alice that all the missions in the entire city are level 4-7!

Click to shrink...

You fall into pleasant, if unimportant chatter with your friends, the city isn't far, so you aren't worried about making it before sundown. You pass the gates with a fair margin of time to spare, and you and Shimah go to check out the mission board while the rest go to uh… cleanse themselves. You figure, you and Shimah can fill them in on available missions.

The main plaza is a lot less crowded in the evening, but there are still a handful of branded milling about the job board or just talking to each other. You and Shimah wander over to see what all is available.

Click to shrink...

From the looks of it, we get all that's available from when we glance at the job board.

From here http://forum.questionablequesting.c...uest-original-fantasy.822/page-28#post-188909

 

[yrsillar]

What I give you on the board is a set of quests alice thinks look interesting. I can't make like... thirty or forty missions that would realistically be available, cut me some slack.

 

[Grosstoad]

I prefer to assume that when it says minimum level, it means minimum level. Otherwise, it'll be like the other identifiers, with recommended before it.

Click to shrink...

Again, the minimum level for a Branded to go to any Dungeon is level 1. That is not to say that you can do any Dungeons at level 1, like what Dark infers.

However, the fact remains that it's your inference. And it's not a very great one either. For one, the system you suggest leaves no real room for evaluating E ranks, or for high level dungeons where the raw difference between a 62 E rank and a 65 D is not going to be particularly huge.

Likewise there are many cases where a dungeon's range is probably smaller than the gap.

For example if we have a level 8 D rank and a level 12 C, that's a fairly wide gap. However at 10 we get the auction house, a new gear slot, etc. So it'd be more honest to think "try it at 12"

Ultimately we don't know if (party size equal) a level 5 mission compares to higher level dungeons.

We don't know, ergo we should avoid picking missions above our level until we do or there's a compelling need to justify the risk.

Click to shrink...

Okay, for E-Ranks, it is clearly level 1 to level cap. Of course, this shoddy system of mine cannot take into account the Dungeons that are have been unattended and thus upgraded or simply outliers.

That we are able to take level cap and party size into account was only because the available information given by the Divine Eye Skill.

Someone suggested before that the level cap is a measure of the monsters level inside, and Ranks are complexity of the Dungeon, whether monster abilities, AI, puzzle, or hazard. Interaction between Level cap and Rank of a Dungeon might create different stages of difficulty, like a high rank low level Dungeon might even be dominated by Tucker's Kobold.

But the Missions are slightly different, because the parameters on the Mission info are not set by the Dungeon itself, then read by the Branded, but instead are eye-balled by the Mission-giver.

A Mission-giver can overestimate or underestimate the parameter of the Mission, but errs of such a magnitude for a total wipeout are going to be outliers anyway. It is not like every Mission info will be an underestimation.

I, err, kinda doubt this. 50% odds are terrible when you only ever get to lose once. Categorically, for an appropriate party of the recommended size, an E-C rank dungeon should be eminently doable, with relatively small odds of failure.

Click to shrink...

The 50-50 chance is an assumption of mine, on consideration of the strange JPRG world system. The creators of the Dungeons and Monsters will not have to take into account the Brandeds' safety, in fact, there was no PC system in place for the human before the interference of the Goddesses.

Now, I have no idea whether the whole Dungeon-Monster-Branded is a system set by the Goddesses to alleviate the catastrophe of the unbreachable monster spawning points, or is it just the Branded that the Goddesses make to counter the Dungeon-Monster system catastrophe.

If it was the Goddesses, then perhaps the percentage might be skewed for the Brandeds.
If it wasn't, then the percentage might be more neutral, or skewed more for the Monsters.

I assumed a more neutral stance, because if the Goddesses could, it would have been noted that Dungeon are not that lethal.






Anyway.

My vote plan was for a D-Rank, minimum Level 5, Ash Snake nest clearing Mission.
Everyone is now level 6, with Maya at level 7. Everyone has gone past D-rank of their main jobs.

They have gone through Ashen Grotto D-rank, which has level cap of 7, defeated its Boss, a King Serpent, as well as fought and won against the Bonus Boss Crimson Wrath, which is an up-scaled Uroktor with a Lazer beam sweep.


My own personal opinion is that the Investigate Castle is kind of dangerous (C-rank, full party, and minimum level 7), and not truly suitable for our party, which only have Maya with the right scouting ability. Alice and Shimah might even have higher or equal Perception to Maya, and Alice has the Divine Eye Skill that is going to be a boon for investigation, but her Agility is simply too mundane for stealth-focus Mission.

 

[GiftofLove]

I wish Kiln Knight never happened. It's made people excessively paranoid.

 

[Darkened]

I assumed a more neutral stance, because if the Goddesses could, it would have been noted that Dungeon are not that lethal.

Click to shrink...

It, ultimately, was Yrsillar. Ergo when I see "suggested party size" coming from an in universe perspective, I'm going to assume that the suggestion is actually a reasonable suggestion of what we might accomplish. Decently geared, we haven't lost a party member yet

Why would Yrs give us two missions that we dare not try, being level 6s to its minimum level 7?

Click to shrink...

Because choice is good, and the choice to make risky decisions is good. Quests are, in general, decision making games. If there are no bad decisions to be made, or at least risky decisions, then there's little point.

Jobs that are on the board don't mean "jobs we might accomplish easily."

Just like having CL D rank unlocked didn't make it a good idea to try it that early, or like the mining town looks to have gone pretty damn badly for whomever did it.

I doubt anything would be an instant-kill, but with little reason to push to that brink, I see little reason to aim for the riskiest possible thing we can consider.

 

[Grosstoad]

And Ash Snake nest clearing?

 

[yrsillar]

Doing the Warcamp. Time ta get stuck in boyz

 

[yrsillar]

"I think I'll pass, not too sure about taking a fire weakness, and I don't want Aqua Prisons usefulness to drop," you respond, "Gimme an Ether and a Hi potion, we can vault the mod."

"If that's what you want," Maya says with a shrug as you divide up the loot, "Where to next then?"

"We still have one dungeon we haven't done that's in our range. That ork place." Anshelm says giving his new axe a few swings before stowing it.

"Yeah, it's the only dungeon with an E rank cap below ten that we haven't done yet, plus it seems pretty neutral, gear wise, may as well," you respond, as the dungeon dumps you back outside.

"I'm fine with that, can we get out of the blizzard though?" Sera asks unhappily, already looking rather wet as snow hits her and instantly melts, sending up streamers of steam.

"I agree," Shimah grumbles, you suppose some people just don't like the snow.

You set off, working your way out of the snow covered valley the castle lies in. Once you're out of the snowy zone, you switch to your other robe and then it's off toward Ogre den.

You reach the badlands zone by early afternoon, and after that it takes another hour or so searching to locate the camp based on Rolf's directions. The dungeon, on the outside, seems to be formed of a large wooden wall set between two stone pillars, closing off a section of the land. Smoke rises from within, and you kinda wonder how that works, you know there shouldn't actually be anything 'in' the dungeon space in the real world, so what is making the fires?

You shake your head and turn your attention to the dungeon pane, since your friends are waiting patiently for you to read off the party size. "Looks like… two?" you say with some surprise, "Guess it really is just the step up from ogres."

"Seems so," Maya says, "We should probably run it together this first time anyway though, just to get an idea of the patterns."

"That seems safe," Sera chimes in. You can't help but notice Anshelm looks a little disappointed though.

"Yeah, sure, lets rock this, you guys ready?" he asks lazily, waiting just a beat for Maya and you to move your pets into position behind him, before activating the dungeon.

When the transition ends you stand inside the great wooden wall, though another lies ahead. Around you are crude huts and tents adorned by crude fetishes of human skulls and bone, among other creatures. You don't have much time for the scenery though, because…

"WAAAAAAAAGH!!"

Holy crap, do these orks have to yell so loud? A half dozen burly green-skinned fingers charge your position from around the area backed by a pair of much more heavily armored orks armed with cleavers the size of your torso.

It's pretty intimidating, until Anshelm steps forward and smashes his shield into one of the charging 'Ork Boyz' hard enough to make you hear ribs breaking, slamming it into the ork just behind. At the same time you and Sera let loose with your favored elements. Sera with a Fireball right in the center of the group and you with an Icicle Spear to one of the big Orks that leaves it blue instead of green, as your freeze activates.

The rest of the fight… doesn't take long at that point. Between the tank squad, Sera, and you, the Boyz get cleaned up real fast, and Maya makes a mockery of the other big ork, dodging every swing even as she carves him up like a turkey, helped along by the virulent poison on her daggers.

The second room follows the pattern of the Ogre den, being the first scaled up. More Boyz, more of the big ones, the 'Black Orks'. The main difference is a single 'Waaagh Shaman' well behind the others wearing a strange bone headdress with green lightning crackling around it.

You don't give the thing a chance to act, snapping it up into an Aqua Prison while the others lay into the melee enemies. It goes about the same as the last room, though you have to take an Amrita and use Frost Spray to heal your pet, as well as Mayas, Ice Absorb is nice when it's on your side.

You keep an eye on the shaman, mentally counting down to when the prison should release, the moment it does, you shout, "Sera now!" and launch an Icicle Spear. She sends a bolt of lightning the shaman's way, and together the two spells reduce it to a fine grey mist.

Room three is right in front of the inner wall, in the middle of a ring of spikes, some kind of crude arena. Inside it are three Black Orks…. And a veritable swarm of goblins, with nasty, sharp little knives…. Lots of skulkers, oh dear.

You unleash an Acid Rain on the whole mess as your first act, and boy does that help. Shimah drops her healing totem, and after that it's just a matter of slinging spells and skills till they drop, and keeping an eye on the pets while Shimah keeps everyone else topped off.

The last room is inside the inner gate, and right in front of a blazing bonfire, with a particularly large and imposing hut behind it. Here there are each enemy you have faced thus far, save the goblins. Including a pair of shamans… and the Boss. Helpfully labeled, 'Boss Wagrim'. A nasty brute twice the height of the other orks clutching an axe that looks like it could fell a tree in one swing.

You lead with an Acid Rain over the entire area, even if it gives the shaman's a turn, even as Sera turns her firepower onto the mass of charging Boyz. Anshelm and the tank squad set themselves, Anshelm bellowing a challenge over the war cries of the now hostile orks. They crash into your tanks like a green tide, if a rather badly singed one. The boss seems like a pure damage type, going by the reckless abandon he strikes Anshelm with, and the amount of damage he does… ow. Soloing this one might be pretty tricky, for you squishy types.

Still You pop off your Aqua Prison before the shamans can do more than cast a single spell… a buff that seems to invigorate and strengthen the melee orks. Which leaves one trapped… and the other getting Maya'd. With them out of the way, you can concentrate on helping Sera put down chaff, even as your acid rain continues to pour down on sizzling, howling orks. You have to use up an Ether but, soon enough they begin to fall, and with each passing moment the fight grows easier, until at last the Boss falls, dead to poison.

Congratulations!
You have Gained
55 Experience
6 Job points
65 Gilder

The Party has looted
2 Potions
4 Amritas
[Choppa] A crude axe of scrap metal cracked wood. Value 150 cannot equip
[Waaagh Talisman] A crude fetish made of unidentified bones. Boosts the effect and accuracy of spells based on damage dealt by the users party. Value 260 Cannot Equip
[Sneakin Paint] Strange purple face paint that lowers the users threat, somehow. Value 220
[Boss Standard] A ragged standard painted with crude orkish symbols and topped by a drake skull. Greatly raises users threat, provides minor health regen based on the number of enemies attacking you. 280

Anshelm gives a low whistle, "Its been a good day for me, Hell yeah I want that standard."

"Mm, it is pretty good for you," Maya says, "I don't really need anything here, I prefer my current accessories."

"The talisman, providing it stacks with my passives, may be quite valuable," Shimah adds, "I am glad I was able to get something of use today."

"Mm, nothing for us, I suppose," Sera sighs, glancing at you, "This wasn't a caster heavy dungeon though… so it makes sense."

Yeah, loot has been disappointing for you today, ah well, can't get lucky every day.

[]Loot and planz?

Al Lv6
Ice Elementalist C
Health 70/74
SP 52/96

Maya Lv7
Dual Blade Hunter C
Health 82/90
Sp 31/44

Anshelm Lv6
Spear Warrior C
Health 182/200
SP 18/52

Shimah Lv6
Shaman D
Health 110/116
SP 65/115

Seraphine Lv6
Fire Elementalist C
Health 67/75
Sp 40/87

 

[Grosstoad]

Loot:
[X] Anshelm: Boss Standard
[X] Shimah: Waagh Talisman
[X] Vault: Consumables
- [X] Pick 1 Amrita, tell others to replenish their own stocks
[X] Sell to Shop: Choppa

Action:
[X] Return to Town

[X] Expand Vault
[X] Split up to gather information
- [X] About Ranks, Levels, and Rarity
- [X] About Missions in general
[X] Regroup, share info, update and create new Guides
- [X] Propose giving the master copy to the Temple to share for free

 

[Xicree]

[X] Replenish Potions and ethers as needed
[X] Update the Guide with info from Ork Warcamp


[X] There has been rumors of monster activity in a ruined castle. The castle has been confirmed to not be a dungeon. Number and type of enemies unknown. Extermination desired, but only scouting required. Full party required. C Rank. Reward 3000 Gilder, 1 fifteen point writ each. If monsters are exterminated, rewards will include two green race mods out of the quest givers available selection.
-[X] Careful scouting, letting Maya and Al ready their minions to act as sacrifices in case of needing to flee. Slow and steady, with Maya scouting ahead in stealth, and using her pet to draw attention to small groups for everyone to ambush. Advance slowly and cautiously. Who ever has the highest perception should keep watch specifically for anything anomalous.

 

[Darkened]

[X] Anshelm: Boss Standard
[X] Shimah: Waagh Talisman
[X] Vault: Consumables
- [X] Pick 1 Amrita, tell others to replenish their own stocks
- [X] Sneakin Paint - Make everyone try it on first though.
[X] Sell to Shop: Choppa


Action:
[X] Return to Town
[X] Expand Vault
[X] Split up to gather information
- [X] About Ranks, Levels, and Rarity
- [X] About Missions in general
- [X] What, if any, mage drop jobs in Castle of the Ice Queen at low ranks
[X] Regroup, share info, update and create new Guides
- [X] Propose giving the master copy to the Temple to share for free

 

[tenchi96]

[X] Anshelm: Boss Standard
[X] Shimah: Waagh Talisman
[X] Vault: Consumables
- [X] Pick 1 Amrita, tell others to replenish their own stocks
- [X] Sneakin Paint - Make everyone try it on first though.
[X] Sell to Shop: Choppa

Action:
[X] Return to Town
[X] Expand Vault
[X] Split up to gather information
- [X] About Ranks, Levels, and Rarity
- [X] About Missions in general
- [X] What, if any, mage drop jobs in Castle of the Ice Queen at low ranks
[X] Regroup, share info, update and create new Guides
- [X] Propose giving the master copy to the Temple to share for free

 

[redaeth]

I'd really, really, really want to finish studying damnit.

[X] Anshelm: Boss Standard
[X] Shimah: Waagh Talisman
[X] Vault: Consumables
- [X] Pick 1 Amrita, tell others to replenish their own stocks
- [X] Sneakin Paint - Make everyone try it on first though.
[X] Sell to Shop: Choppa

Action:
[X] Return to Town
[X] Expand Vault

[X] Study those notes!

 

[Happerry]

[X] Anshelm: Boss Standard
[X] Shimah: Waagh Talisman
[X] Vault: Consumables
- [X] Pick 1 Amrita, tell others to replenish their own stocks
- [X] Sneakin Paint - Make everyone try it on first though.
[X] Sell to Shop: Choppa

Action:
[X] Return to Town
[X] Expand Vault

[X] Study those notes!

 

[Arkeus]

[X] Anshelm: Boss Standard
[X] Shimah: Waagh Talisman
[X] Vault: Consumables
- [X] Pick 1 Amrita, tell others to replenish their own stocks
- [X] Sneakin Paint - Make everyone try it on first though.
[X] Sell to Shop: Choppa

Action:
[X] Return to Town
[X] Expand Vault
[X] Split up to gather information
- [X] About Ranks, Levels, and Rarity
- [X] About Missions in general
- [X] What, if any, mage drop jobs in Castle of the Ice Queen at low ranks
[X] Regroup, share info, update and create new Guides
- [X] Propose giving the master copy to the Temple to share for free

 

[UrsaTempest]

[X] Anshelm: Boss Standard
[X] Shimah: Waagh Talisman
[X] Vault: Consumables
- [X] Pick 1 Amrita, tell others to replenish their own stocks
- [X] Sneakin Paint - Make everyone try it on first though.
[X] Sell to Shop: Choppa

Action:
[X] Return to Town
[X] Expand Vault
[X] Split up to gather information
- [X] About Ranks, Levels, and Rarity
- [X] About Missions in general
- [X] What, if any, mage drop jobs in Castle of the Ice Queen at low ranks
[X] Regroup, share info, update and create new Guides
- [X] Propose giving the master copy to the Temple to share for free

 

[Hangwind]

[X] Anshelm: Boss Standard
[X] Shimah: Waagh Talisman
[X] Vault: Consumables
- [X] Pick 1 Amrita, tell others to replenish their own stocks
- [X] Sneakin Paint - Make everyone try it on first though.
[X] Sell to Shop: Choppa
Action:
[X] Return to Town
[X] Expand Vault
[X] Split up to gather information
- [X] About Ranks, Levels, and Rarity
- [X] About Missions in general
- [X] What, if any, mage drop jobs in Castle of the Ice Queen at low ranks
[X] Regroup, share info, update and create new Guides
- [X] Propose giving the master copy to the Temple to share for free

 

[mrttao]

Xicree, then PLEASE stop with the picking the most dangerous of the missions all the time. Last time, you advocated the one where the party that went got TPKed and the rank increased afterwards. This time, you advocated for the one where we are an entire level below the minimum required to take it.

Click to shrink...

This, so much this.
The problem isn't with doing missions, but that the pro missions guys are blatantly suicidal and pick literally the most insanely risky mission available.

 

[GiftofLove]

There's nothing suicidal about a scouting mission. You're not supposed to come into contact with the enemy at all.

 

[mrttao]

Why is everyone assuming that paint is a consumable? its obviously a piece of equipment