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Feel The Ground Shake (Pokemon - Ground-type specialist)

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Petrox said:
I guess they are going to patch the roar if he does that in the conference, maybe limiting the times he can spam that.
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I hope not, it always irritates me when a good strategy is banned simply because most people cannot beat it, but if its just for that reason why bother having a tournament at all if you can just complain that a strategy is unfair. I could understand if it put the pokemon in danger but that's not the case. Brad has already pointed out one way to beat it with soundproof. I am sure there are others either via skills or held items
 
Well, he needs to basically sacrifice Vlad, his single best mon that's not Grundy (for now, Simon's stonks are on the rise) to set it up, and as the enemy can pick the mon they send out, if they have some kind of counter, it works immediately, and they can still outspeed the kroododile to get a hit in, theoretically.

And remember, rapid spin. Move pools can be pretty damn deep in this universe. Wattson just wasn't prepared.
 
Petrox said:
I guess they are going to patch the roar if he does that in the conference, maybe limiting the times he can spam that.
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Without 4 movepool restrictions, there's a lot of ways for hands to be dealt.
That's before the implications that fast enough pokemon can just dodge hazards as was implied with a comment on Manectric or that they can just get blown up with enough AOE.

LordVishnu said:
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I think this battle was probably the best one written so far. The of push-pull of the fight was written great.
Well paced and easy to follow while still feeling the pressure of thinking Brad was under. Though knowing that Defog fact off hand felt a little out of left field in how it broke up flow and questioning how tf he remembers that off hand in the middle of a fight.
I guess prep might explain it
 
azereath said:
I hope not, it always irritates me when a good strategy is banned simply because most people cannot beat it, but if its just for that reason why bother having a tournament at all if you can just complain that a strategy is unfair. I could understand if it put the pokemon in danger but that's not the case. Brad has already pointed out one way to beat it with soundproof. I am sure there are others either via skills or held items
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Depends on how dominant and niche the strategy becomes. They literally banned dunking in basketball for a while back in the day cos one guy was just too good at it
 
Petrox said:
I guess they are going to patch the roar if he does that in the conference, maybe limiting the times he can spam that.
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Honestly, if you're a conference-level trainer and don't have more than a few ways to deal with strategies like hazard stacking and phasing, at that point, it's a skill issue on your part.

Hazard removers like Rapid Spin or Defog, abilities to prevent being switched out like Suction Cups or Soundproof, moves such as Ingrain, or even one that makes you immune to hazards such as Magic Guard. Alternatively, you can just try to prevent hazards in the first place by using moves like Taunt or Pokémon with the Magic Bounce ability. There's also items such as Heavy Duty Boots or Air Balloon, tho, I don't exactly know how they work in this world.
 
azereath said:
I hope not, it always irritates me when a good strategy is banned simply because most people cannot beat it, but if its just for that reason why bother having a tournament at all if you can just complain that a strategy is unfair. I could understand if it put the pokemon in danger but that's not the case. Brad has already pointed out one way to beat it with soundproof. I am sure there are others either via skills or held items
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The thing you need to remember is that the purpose of sports is to be entertaining to the audience.

One person who reliably steamrolls everything all the time because they have mastered one cool trick that nobody is skilled enough to stop is not entertaining to the audience.
 
He didn't note that Grass Knot was also being used differently here? It's normally a remote attack that strikes from below tripping you and converting gravity into Grass damage. Not a contact move that leaves a lash scar.

I'm guessing that Volt Swotch here was being used by striking himself. Because normally Volt Switch does nothing if it can't damage.

Neruz said:
The thing you need to remember is that the purpose of sports is to be entertaining to the audience.

One person who reliably steamrolls everything all the time because they have mastered one cool trick that nobody is skilled enough to stop is not entertaining to the audience.
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On the other hand this is also the pokemon world, wherein the primary purpose of the battles is to prove yourself better than your opponent.
 
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Chrisleech said:
On the other hand this is also the pokemon world, wherein the primary purpose of the battles is to prove yourself better than your opponent.
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If that were true, tournaments would not be televised and held in giant stadiums that can hold tens of thousands of spectators.

Individual battles are for proving yourself, gym battles are for proving yourself, the big tournaments are for entertaining the audience, exactly the same as tournaments are in real life.

The league does not build gigantic stadiums and broadcast major tournaments to every television in the land so that people can prove themselves, they do those things because people buying tickets to tournaments and watching them on tv makes the league money through ticket sales and advertising revenue.

The fact that the competitors in said tournaments can also prove themselves is of secondary concern to the league.
 
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LordVishnu said:
Complete and utter silence followed by laughter is a first though.

"BWAHAHAHA!" Wattson lets loose his biggest, deepest, most full-bodied belly laugh to date. The man almost toppling over from how far he's leaning back. His hand is slapping his thigh over and over as he tries to control himself. "Well son you certainly played me good on that one! I concede!"
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Wattson's team is actually good enough to take down Grundy. But not in a 1v1 and he knows it.
 
Neruz said:
The thing you need to remember is that the purpose of sports is to be entertaining to the audience.

One person who reliably steamrolls everything all the time because they have mastered one cool trick that nobody is skilled enough to stop is not entertaining to the audience.
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...Assuming that mastering a single trick is enough to dominate an entire competitive style.
There are several issues with looking at it like that, foremost of which is the assumption that apparently nobody has ever thought of it before and that reasonable countermeasures don't exist.

Not to mention that apparently it would be enough to steamroll opponents. I doubt hazards do the same kind of ridiculous universal damage as they do in the games, so their effectiveness at the highest levels is still questionable, excluding all the ways there are to deal with them in a real battle setting.
Would they give a definite edge? Yea. Damage is damage. Enough to offset the risk of something just doing an absolute suicide move like Electrode did? Well, now you've either lost a hefty chunk on a mon that could have done a lot more than chip. Or even lose it outright.

The idea of something being banned for being unsporting isn't outlandish. But hazards in the context of this story seems way out there.
 
Ah Wattson my favorite Hoenn Gym Leader. Something about an old man just having fun doing his job is priceless.

It also helps that the Mauville-Vernadurf Town route is probably the most time I've spent in a Pokemon game due to the copious amounts of eggs that I've needed to hatch.

Bonus points for the berry patches you have access too there as well!
 
Pkbwgsc said:
...Assuming that mastering a single trick is enough to dominate an entire competitive style.
There are several issues with looking at it like that, foremost of which is the assumption that apparently nobody has ever thought of it before and that reasonable countermeasures don't exist.

Not to mention that apparently it would be enough to steamroll opponents. I doubt hazards do the same kind of ridiculous universal damage as they do in the games, so their effectiveness at the highest levels is still questionable, excluding all the ways there are to deal with them in a real battle setting.
Would they give a definite edge? Yea. Damage is damage. Enough to offset the risk of something just doing an absolute suicide move like Electrode did? Well, now you've either lost a hefty chunk on a mon that could have done a lot more than chip. Or even lose it outright.

The idea of something being banned for being unsporting isn't outlandish. But hazards in the context of this story seems way out there.
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I'm not talking about this specific example, I'm just commenting on the general concept that yes sports can and have banned certain specific practices that are technically not against the rules but are, in effect, 'too powerful' and render the competition less entertaining. Because the primary purpose of sports is not actually to find out who is the best, it is to be entertaining.

My comment was in response to azereath saying "why bother having a tournament at all if you can just complain that a strategy is unfair" by pointing out that the purpose of tournaments is entertainment first and foremost, so anything that interferes with the entertainment is a problem for the tournament.

I don't know if this strategy would interfere with the entertainment or not.
 
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Grundy is gonna be upset he didn't get to fight. Against such strong opponents too.
 
Why do I get the feeling that if our Protagonist somehow gets saddled with the Viridian Ground Gym at the end of this, it will be Watson that gets the panicked phone calls on how to manage it?
 
{Nervous laugh} I'm not sure Grundy is gonna like getting sent out and then being told no, he's not actually gonna get to fight his opponent. ^_^'
 
Neruz said:
I'm not talking about this specific example, I'm just commenting on the general concept that yes sports can and have banned certain specific practices that are technically not against the rules but are, in effect, 'too powerful' and render the competition less entertaining. Because the primary purpose of sports is not actually to find out who is the best, it is to be entertaining.

My comment was in response to azereath saying "why bother having a tournament at all if you can just complain that a strategy is unfair" by pointing out that the purpose of tournaments is entertainment first and foremost, so anything that interferes with the entertainment is a problem for the tournament.

I don't know if this strategy would interfere with the entertainment or not.
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Ah, yea. I do think there are "cheap" tactics such as permaswapping for a better matchup that both affect the integrity of the match and the viewing, but strategies like the hazard setup wouldn't affect it at all, imo. It'd be a bit ridiculous to rule out any actual nuance to it, since while permanently swapping probably should be banned, switching in and of itself is a strategic thing.

Pokemon battles are still fights in the end, rather than on paper purely technical sports like baseball. The goals overlap up until the point where one side is grinding the other one into unconsciousness against the dirt.
And where things like Martial Arts competition have rules to prevent needlessly endangering both competitors... monster durability and Pokemon Center Healing Machines are some shit.
 
Neruz said:
The fact that the competitors in said tournaments can also prove themselves is of secondary concern to the league.
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just going to point out how you could be hilariously wrong with this take. Saying 'its all about the money' is definitely valid when you solely consider Earth's humans culture and how money = power here and apply it to there but that isn't exactly correct in poke-land where you can have a friendly tactical nuke in your pocket.

Legendaries exist and are effectively forces of nature to some degree in all poke-related media. Just because fate/prophesy makes/allows children to stand against them and win doesn't mean that they aren't an actual legitimate threat to everything else. Not to mention that interregional war is a whole thing. Wouldn't doing all this promotion and 'proving yourself to be the best you can' be hyper effective at battling be an angle at getting the masses to effectively be in a soft 'prepared' state culturally so they can respond to the next existential threat? On top of that, human cultures get people to do some wild shit and behaviors like building a fuck off huge stadium and televising not blood sport to appease the masses as a show of strength is totally something that would be done.
 
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