General World of Darkness Discussion Thread QQ Edition

[Repentant_Dragos]

As a general question?

Shouldn't this thread be in creative writing instead of off topic?

Or do we just not generally talk about making stories enough? (WOD of any form is fairly rare in the fics and quests sections)

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Probably the latter; I tried to make a CofD fic once and it wasn't very popular plus I lost interest quickly.

 

[gereh]

As a general question?

Shouldn't this thread be in creative writing instead of off topic?

Or do we just not generally talk about making stories enough?

Click to shrink...

I don't think I have seen much talk about creating stories on here, more general talk about lore and which books seem to be worth picking up. So sounds fair that it's in general, but I guess that doesn't stop someone from creating a more writing focused one in CW.

(WOD of any form is fairly rare in the fics and quests sections)

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Which is a bit strange, because with the amount of DXD and Fate fics out there WOD would make an excellent crossover choice (I played around with an idea for a dxd x-over myself, but it never did go anywhere cause I was unable to get a grip on the dxd lore). Or a Techocrat as a Tinker in Worm... Lot of crossover potential here (especially for Mage you can put them into almost every setting out there and it would work), with some of the more prominent fandoms.

On the other hand I would assume a lot of us, don't write stories about our ideas because we rather want to use them at a later game, than burning through them here. As in if I come up with a cool idea I would rather keep for a future chronicle than writing a story here that will get like 100 views and 10 likes per chapter.

 

[Repentant_Dragos]

I don't think I have seen much talk about creating stories on here, more general talk about lore and which books seem to be worth picking up. So sounds fair that it's in general, but I guess that doesn't stop someone from creating a more writing focused one in CW.


Which is a bit strange, because with the amount of DXD and Fate fics out there WOD would make an excellent crossover choice (I played around with an idea for a dxd x-over myself, but it never did go anywhere cause I was unable to get a grip on the dxd lore). Or a Techocrat as a Tinker in Worm... Lot of crossover potential here (especially for Mage you can put them into almost every setting out there and it would work), with some of the more prominent fandoms.

On the other hand I would assume a lot of us, don't write stories about our ideas because we rather want to use them at a later game, than burning through them here. As in if I come up with a cool idea I would rather keep for a future chronicle than writing a story here that will get like 100 views and 10 likes per chapter.

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I did write a CofD (Mage the Awakening) and Fate Crossover once; I believe I advertized it in this very thread before, too. It didn't receive that much feedback, although it had a decent number of likes.

 

[heralding_bubble]

Which is a bit strange, because with the amount of DXD and Fate fics out there WOD would make an excellent crossover choice (I played around with an idea for a dxd x-over myself, but it never did go anywhere cause I was unable to get a grip on the dxd lore). Or a Techocrat as a Tinker in Worm... Lot of crossover potential here (especially for Mage you can put them into almost every setting out there and it would work), with some of the more prominent fandoms.

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I've toyed with the idea of DxD/ExWoD quest set/beginning in L.A. throughout the year but haven't managed to actually write any plotting down lol.

 

[gereh]

I did write a CofD (Mage the Awakening) and Fate Crossover once; I believe I advertized it in this very thread before, too. It didn't receive that much feedback, although it had a decent number of likes.

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I remember that, I remember reading a bit of it, story was heavily Fate focused, so wasn't for me (I'm not a big fan of the Fate plot).

I've toyed with the idea of DxD/ExWoD quest set/beginning in L.A. throughout the year but haven't managed to actually write any plotting down lol.

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My story idea was a weird mishmash of DxD, CofD, and WOD. Basically the premise were that Devils were created by Lilith (the First Archmage) and Lucifer in an attempt to try to create a race of fighters that could be as powerful as Mages. And while the Devils could use powerful Magic without the drawback of Paradoxes, they were never able to "awake" and those could never gain the same height of potentials that Mages could. Fast Forward to the current times, MC is a devil of clan Belial whose power mutated at birth and more or less nullified his devils powers. MC gets kicked out of the clan, runs off to the human world, while he chills around there, he "awakens". Now our MC goes around GB and Ireland learning Magic while chilling with some Verbena Mages and some Circle of the Crone Vamps. Oh yeah also Heaven is hell bent on seeing him dead, sending Exorcist, Celestial Chorus Mages, and Angels after him (because the system of heaven isn't as broken as the angels want us to believe, no it has developed it's own will and agenda... aka the god-machine is here).

 

[Repentant_Dragos]

I remember that, I remember reading a bit of it, story was heavily Fate focused, so wasn't for me (I'm not a big fan of the Fate plot).

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Understandable; I also wrote a CofD story which lasted for a Prologue and two-three chapters before I lost interest.

 

[tem345]

my story idea was that of the broken masquerasde where the public eventually finds truth of the supernatural and the various effects it has on the world.

 

[Repentant_Dragos]

my story idea was that of the broken masquerasde where the public eventually finds truth of the supernatural and the various effects it has on the world.

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Is it okay to ask what your rough plans are, or would you prefer to keep them a secret?

 

[tem345]

Is it okay to ask what your rough plans are, or would you prefer to keep them a secret?

Click to shrink...

I planned it like true blood a bit. Some kindred tired of being hunted by the SI come out in the open. The main character would be a toreodor kindred from ancient greece. The chapters would be interviews with news outlets and he would hint at vampires not being the only thing lurking in the night but not elaborate since he isn't pleased at the breach of the masquerade and doesn't want to ruin the other supernatural creature masquerade either.

Some fae will use this sudden rise in glamour to try to inspire more creativity by doing superhero stuff since they found it inspire it the most.

Glasswalkers would try to convince the other garou the come in the open as well.

Some mages would use it to lower the paradox by collaborating with the fae to make people belive more in the supernatural.

The public would be appalled by the camirilla due to its feudal structural.They would fear the sabbat and vary on the anarch.

The government's would try to control the supernaturals under pentex influence to try to kill the garou. There would be campaigns to make the garou as eco-terrorists and some may try to reveal the Imperium to manipulate the public into mobbing the garou.

As for why the technocary didn't cover up the breach its because they are in a civil war and the Ascension wars plus week of Nightmares damaged their bases and they are losing their control over the world since they made reality so static thst their powers are failing the SI is part of their plan to regain control and hunt their opposition.

One of the other character I planned was a imbued cop who uses this to convince the superiors to create a special task force dealing in affairs of the paranormal. The SAD would be integrated in this. They would he at conflict with the other hunters and government organisation.

People would either distrust or trust the church more since they have a secret monster hunter squad (SOL)

For what happens in the world
Japan: becomes like anime basically given the harmony the people have live with the youkai for years there would be mixed well compared to the others.

China: The 5 dragons try to clamp down hard of the rival supernatural using the government as a tool since they now have an excuse.

Ireland. The sidhe become more active there is a greater more to the revitalising of old traditions by the fiana.

England. Mithras survives the SI attack and takes over monty bodies but is attacked by the MC sires. I plan to make them enemies. The sire is from old ireland and hates mithras for leading to the occupation of Ireland. There would be a battle between the 2 methusalah and mithras would be slain in the end. After that he would take over England and try a revitalisation of old pagan traditions via lobbying.

Russia: there is a coup and it turns into civil war over who would control it. The shadow lords and silver fang try to take advantage over it to control russia. Some of the old brujah council of the USSR survived baba yaga and tries to also take control over it.

Egypt. The follower of sect would be more active and force the mummies to fight them in the open.

All over the world the world there would be a push for paganism, wiccan and bringing back of old traditions and Rituals by the mages to change the paradim.

 

[Repentant_Dragos]

I planned it like true blood a bit. Some kindred tired of being hunted by the SI come out in the open. The main character would be a toreodor kindred from ancient greece. The chapters would be interviews with news outlets and he would hint at vampires not being the only thing lurking in the night but not elaborate since he isn't pleased at the breach of the masquerade and doesn't want to ruin the other supernatural creature masquerade either.

Some fae will use this sudden rise in glamour to try to inspire more creativity by doing superhero stuff since they found it inspire it the most.

Glasswalkers would try to convince the other garou the come in the open as well.

Some mages would use it to lower the paradox by collaborating with the fae to make people belive more in the supernatural.

The public would be appalled by the camirilla due to its feudal structural.They would fear the sabbat and vary on the anarch.

The government's would try to control the supernaturals under pentex influence to try to kill the garou. There would be campaigns to make the garou as eco-terrorists and some may try to reveal the Imperium to manipulate the public into mobbing the garou.

As for why the technocary didn't cover up the breach its because they are in a civil war and the Ascension wars plus week of Nightmares damaged their bases and they are losing their control over the world since they made reality so static thst their powers are failing the SI is part of their plan to regain control and hunt their opposition.

One of the other character I planned was a imbued cop who uses this to convince the superiors to create a special task force dealing in affairs of the paranormal. The SAD would be integrated in this. They would he at conflict with the other hunters and government organisation.

People would either distrust or trust the church more since they have a secret monster hunter squad (SOL)

For what happens in the world
Japan: becomes like anime basically given the harmony the people have live with the youkai for years there would be mixed well compared to the others.

China: The 5 dragons try to clamp down hard of the rival supernatural using the government as a tool since they now have an excuse.

Ireland. The sidhe become more active there is a greater more to the revitalising of old traditions by the fiana.

England. Mithras survives the SI attack and takes over monty bodies but is attacked by the MC sires. I plan to make them enemies. The sire is from old ireland and hates mithras for leading to the occupation of Ireland. There would be a battle between the 2 methusalah and mithras would be slain in the end. After that he would take over England and try a revitalisation of old pagan traditions via lobbying.

Russia: there is a coup and it turns into civil war over who would control it. The shadow lords and silver fang try to take advantage over it to control russia. Some of the old brujah council of the USSR survived baba yaga and tries to also take control over it.

Egypt. The follower of sect would be more active and force the mummies to fight them in the open.

All over the world the world there would be a push for paganism, wiccan and bringing back of old traditions and Rituals by the mages to change the paradim.

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I love it!

Will the Craftmasons be refounded?

 

[tem345]

I love it!

Will the Craftmasons be refounded?

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I don't know what that is

 

[Repentant_Dragos]

I don't know what that is

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The best Convention ever.

They were such bros, the rest of the Order of Reason/Proto-Technocracy had to purge them for liking the common people too much.

 

[gereh]

The best Convention ever.

They were such bros, the rest of the Order of Reason/Proto-Technocracy had to purge them for liking the common people too much.

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I mean yes they were purged and yes they liked the common peoples, but they also were waging an indiscriminate war against all things supernatural. So I'm not sure about the whole "bros" part.

We can just take a look at "Convention of the White Tower" they stormed the tower of the archmahe Yoassmy, because she had been reclussive and wasn't actively ruling over her lands, so the Craftmasons killed her (maybe, the are theories that she survived like with every named character killed ever). So she was killed for not actively ruling over her lands. And what is it that Craftmasons want? That supernatrual forces don't rule over humanity and humanity can govern itself. So why did they kill her? Wasn't her being in her tower and only caring for her own research not exactly what they would want Mages to do?

 

[Maragas]

My opinion on Craftmasons can be summed up as
"Yeah, for me their shtick of "Think of the people!" also gets old very fast."

They are fine, but not my favorite.

 

[Repentant_Dragos]

I mean yes they were purged and yes they liked the common peoples, but they also were waging an indiscriminate war against all things supernatural. So I'm not sure about the whole "bros" part.

We can just take a look at "Convention of the White Tower" they stormed the tower of the archmahe Yoassmy, because she had been reclussive and wasn't actively ruling over her lands, so the Craftmasons killed her (maybe, the are theories that she survived like with every named character killed ever). So she was killed for not actively ruling over her lands. And what is it that Craftmasons want? That supernatrual forces don't rule over humanity and humanity can govern itself. So why did they kill her? Wasn't her being in her tower and only caring for her own research not exactly what they would want Mages to do?

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To be fair, the Sorcerers Crusade Rulebook is contradicted (in tone, I mean) by the actual Order of Reason book (which I was able to access through means I am not sure I should discuss here), which says that it was a myth that the Order of Reason was at constant war with the Traditions in the beginning and even says that there was a truce or even peace in many places.

But yeah... I think the writing of that incident is very questionable.

My opinion on Craftmasons can be summed up as
"Yeah, for me their shtick of "Think of the people!" also gets old very fast."

They are fine, but not my favorite.

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I can understand why. Who are your favorite, then?

 

[Maragas]

Who are your favorite, then?

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Explorers, more specifically Herculinians. Cosian's House of Fire and Artificer Forgers (Vulcans) are also among my favorites.

Hmm, I need to update this thread.

 

[Repentant_Dragos]

Explorers, more specifically Herculinians. Cosian's House of Fire and Artificer Forgers (Vulcans) are also among my favorites.

Hmm, I need to update this thread.

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Can you tell me what those are? I don't have access to the Order of Reason Book anymore.

 

[Maragas]

Can you tell me what those are? I don't have access to the Order of Reason Book anymore.

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You are in luck, give me 10 minutes.

 

[Maragas]

What are Legions from Wraith the Oblivion?
Let's say you were unfortunate enough to be born in WoD and even more unfortunate enough to become a Wraith. More specifically in Europe/USA.

After getting out of your Caul thanks to an incredibly helpful Reaper that didn't enslave your ass and instead took you to Stygia and left. Now what?
Well my new Wraith, it's time to enter a Legion! What's a Legion you ask? It's your new unlife!

But first, you need to learn about Deathmarks.

Spoiler: Deathmarks

Every Wraith has Deathmark, marks that indicate how you died. Some Wraiths might only have a knife scar on their heart while others might have complex markings indicating he died to a scheme.

Why does this matter to Legions?

Spoiler: Legions

Well, your Legion depends on your death's nature. And while some are easy to say "You died from Old Age on natural causes, you go to Iron Legion", some are harder. Victims of Violence usually go to The Grim Legion but what if you are violently killed by a Madman? Those who die to Madness, be it their own or others, go to The Penitent Legion, so what happens? Bureaucracy and Lawyers and sometimes, your opinion decides it.

No really, this is an actual job legions of wraiths (pun intended) work 24/7 to sort all new Wraiths.

Spoiler

But whatever Legion you are in, know this; Legions are the backbone of the Stygian Empire and every Wraith is part of it. Some might rebel or leave them to join Renegades or Heretics or be secretly part of some other organization like the Guilds but Wraiths are Legions, every single one of them. A Bulwark against the Oblivion. From civilian Legionaries to Deathlords.
Of course, it isn't heroic as it sounds. Legions scramble for power, resources, fame and of course, dominion. Deathlords, the very hands of Charon long since become rivals for power against each other. Some even wanting Charon's throne. Not surprising since outside of Lady of Fate, the Deathlord of Legion of Fate, most of them aren't the original Deathlords and it become a title that got passed on through the centuries. This become really, really bad in Modern Times. And I am not even exaggerating.

Spoiler: The Third Descent

The conflict is so bad that even when Charon called them to face the forces of Oblivion, a Neverborn named Gorool which rose from the depths of the Labyrinth to destroy Stygia for once and all, not a single Deathlord nor their Legions nor their great Necropolies came to his side. Not even Lady of Fate and her legion.
In the end, as his last act as the Emperor of the Dark Kingdom of Iron, he stood alone against the mighty Malfean. Just like how all of this started, he was alone.

And so he dropped his Mask, took up his great blade Siklos and stepped into his reed boat. Not as the Supreme Leader of the Stygian Empire but as the First Ferryman whose only wish was the safety of the Wraiths. He challenged the mighty beast and slowly he drew Gorool away from Stygia and its millions of inhabitants. Fearing he couldn't defeat the beast, he opened a great whirlpool and flung himself and Gorool into it. Going deeper, towards the Oblivion.

And nothing changed for Deathlords.

Well, after such a downer event, let's learn about Legions.

First, what happens when you are recruited into a Legion?
Easy, you either get assigned into Civilian Duties, which is what most Wraiths do, or Military Duties.

Spoiler: Duties of the Legions

Civilian Duties are the main jobs of the Legions. Most Wraiths, especially new Wraiths, find themselves doing civilian jobs. And it's vital to the Underworld. Dealing with the endless coming Dead, smoothing the clockwork mechanism of the titanic bureaucracy of Stygia that dwarfs even the worst company bureaucracy in the Living World, doing consensus of the ever increasing dead, maintaining the buildings, walls, social structure and of course, enforcing laws and doing propaganda for their legion.

Military Duties are what people think when people mention the Legions. They patrol the Kingdom, keep the order, hunt Specters, chase Renegades and Heretics and represent stability. They are what stands against the Oblivion, well at least when it's beneficial for Deathlords and/or when they have no other options.

Then you have Ranks inside Legions.

Spoiler: Ranks

Legionnaire: Every Wraith bar those who openly oppose the Legions or those who are higher in this list is a Legionnaire. They are the rank and file Wraiths, they patrol, they work and do the dirty work and obey any Wraith higher ranking from them.
Centurion: The basic officer of the Legion. They command between 4-20 Wraiths and usually do missions and jobs set by their superiors.
Marshal: Marshals are the first officers who enjoy some independence but have a great deal of trust and responsibility placed on them. Usually they are in charge of small places outside of Citadels (Fortress Hearts of Necropoli Cities) with several Centurions under them but not too far.
Regent: Marshal but better, they are in charge of areas far away from Citadels and thus have much greater independence than Marshals. Sometimes they are the only ruling officer and thus "The Law".
Overlord: Assistants of Anacreon's and usually second of command in a Citadel. They oversee most of the things going on in the citadel, arrange everything, and give orders. When Necropoli is large enough there are more than one Overlord.
Anacreon: Outside of Stygia where Deathlords rule, Anacreons are the most powerful members of the Legions and answer only to Stygia and their Deathlords. Every Necropoli, small or large, has a council of Seven Anacreons that rule it made up from every Anacerons from every Legion outside of Legion of Fate. Cooperation is optional and politics are quite deadly.

Now that we know the basics that every Legion has, let's examine each Legion closer.

Spoiler: The Emerald Legion

The Emerald Legion, the happiest and the most productive Wraiths in the Underworld. They are those who died suddenly. be it because of happenstance or because you misjudged your capacity, for example climbing and falling down from a mountain. They are the risk-takers, positive thinkers and daredevils of Wraiths. Rather than curse their fate they prefer living their unlife and doing something. And usually continue being unafraid of danger in their unlife just like they were alive. The Emerald Legion includes extreme sports athletes, clumsy people, people who died from natural disasters, careless people, drivers who crashed and their victims, and overall all accidental and sudden deaths.

So when I said they are risk-takers I meant it. Their Deathlord even promotes it in their Four Values.

Value One: Take risks, but stack your deck when you do. "We learn from our failures more than our successes". Even "Near Successes" are better than not trying.
Value Two: Cogs Turn Wheels and the common wraith is the cog of this great machine. Emerald Wraiths aren't likely to get smelted into an item or building as long as you are doing your job. Though that's mostly because Emerald Wraiths are the most likely to be productive compared to other Legions.
Value Three: Connected to Value one. Failure is more acceptable than lack of trying. Try and try again with things you learned until you succeed. The only sin is not trying at all.
Value Four: Try talking with your fellow Emeralds rather than facing your Thorn alone. Just try, even if it might seem like a blame game.

Their passions are usually "softer" emotions like Regret or Envy rather than Hate or Revenge or Anger. And they usually don't have any malice or hatred against a specific mortal.

But it isn't all sunshine in Emerald Legion.

Spoiler: Assessor States

More and more these values are twisted to extremes. Assessors States are cults of productivity and efficiency where your worth is whatever you are worth to keep as a Wraith or as a forge material. Where every Emerald is trying to be better than the other in order to keep with the ever-increasing demand for efficiency and productivity. Even if it means attempting suicidal projects or missions otherwise you won't meet your quota. And Emerald Lord and his advisors do nothing but issue statements.

Spoiler: The Skeletal Legion

The Skeletal Legion is made out of Wraiths that died from sickness or pestilence. It also includes starvation and dehydration mostly because like diseases they take some time to kill you outright and are usually painful. They are one of the largest Legions in Stygia.

Skeletal Wraiths may not be the happiest Wraiths in the Underworld but they are the ones who are usually happy that they died. They spent months if not years under the painful hands of their illness. Bed-ridden, slowly and surely wasting away as their muscles atrophied and their mental faculties slowed. Until they died and it stopped.
Not to mention they are Wraiths who mostly come to terms with their death even before they died. They told their farewell, wrote their journals and said goodbyes long before they died. This means most Skeletal Wraiths have weaker Passions and Fetters and while this means they are overall weaker Wraiths than most, they are also the closest ones to Transcendence.

Overall, they are the second-largest Legion in the matter of clerks and office workers. Second only to the Iron Legion aka the wraiths who died from old age. They are better suited for civilian duties than military ones.

A quirk of their Legion is that dying from a disease is stylish. Some diseases are just better than others. Cancer? Dull but inspires a dread. Bubonic plague? Man, commoner's disease am I, right? Oh you died from Spanish flu? What a unique experience.

So, what's the "bad" side of this Legion? Well...

Spoiler: The Skeletal Lord

To be honest, he is insane. Mostly in a bad way though he does have a nice side.

He believes himself to be one of the horsemen of the apocalypse, literally Pestilence. And Charon as Death.
Not only this, he is fanatic about categorizing, compartmentalization, rules, policies and sorting out his subjects. He can create multiple departments before it's noon, merge half of them and close the rest of them by evening and then rename the merged department Tuesday Department, proclaim he needs every wraith who died Tuesday to become a member of it as it's now required or become furniture for his skelly ass.

The only bright side of this, his legion is the only legion that allows beliefs, as long as it's private, to be held by their members. Since he thinks he is the Pestilence. (And no, no one is allowed to suggest he might be the embodiment of Shiva and anyone who dares will be Skeletal Lord's scribe's pen for eternity. He already tries to argue he should be allowed to spread disease to the Living World but at the request of Lady of Fate he stopped for now)

So, this is it for now. I hope this was informative and helpful. So, any thoughts? Questions? Requests?

 

[Maragas]

Normally I was going to post about vampiric bloodlines but H5 preview pissed me enough for me to make a Hunter post.

So let's learn about Extremist Hunters. Imbued Hunters who survived against all odds.

Spoiler: Do you dare?

Imbued Hunters, people say that they are the weakest splat all around. Are they? Yes. They are basically glass canons, people who have to be paranoid about everything lest they get taken out by even a minor amount of force for other splats. There is a reason why for Hunters there is no Aggravated damage. Because for them there is no difference between Lethal and Aggravated. An Imbued Hunter at their core is human. You aren't a Mage that slowly Ascends towards something more than a Human. You aren't a Vampire empowered by the Curse of Cain, bloated by the blood of your victims and shouldering the weight of the ages. You aren't a Werewolf, a warrior of Gaia that can take a tank shell to the face, born to fight against cosmic forces of Destruction and Corruption. You aren't a Mummy, servants of Osiris, immortal guardians of Balance.

You are a human. A human that was given mysterious powers by mysterious beings and guided to defend humanity. You risk your life, bordering on suicide, to face the monsters of our nightmares. By doing this you destroy your sanity, scar your mind, cripple your body.

But you can be more, if you are willing to sacrifice even more. There is a way to become even more powerful, to become an Extremist Hunter.

Spoiler: Fall From Grace

But the only way forward is downward.
Your mind will be filled with madness, your grip of reality starts to fry away, you become a force of nature that is beyond comprehension, above even insanity. You will transform from being the light among darkness to an inferno of terrible brightness, consuming even yourself along with your enemies.
You will leave your mark on the world, but can you accept the costs?

Spoiler: To see like an Extremist

Whatever you call them, Saint, Prophet, Madmen, Extremist, these beings are Hunters so dedicated, so driven by their goals and agendas that everything else is unimportant. The only thing that matters for an Extremist is their goal. Revenge, salvation, destruction you name it. To finally bring down the mastermind behind all the vampires in a city. To find out the reason why Wraiths are created. To kill every single monster they can find. There is little Extremist wouldn't do to accomplish these goals, few lines they wouldn't cross. For them, the only grand picture is their goal. The last tangible, reliable reason to live.

Of course, some Extremists are simply insane. A tormented soul that tries to follow his agenda but is unable to cope with his own powers. The tolls of his powers wreaking havoc on his mind, body and spirit. Most Independent Extremists are of this sort. Speaking of types of Extremists, let's learn about them.

Spoiler: Divine Extremists

When a Hunter sacrificed everything, his body, his mind, friends, family and allies but still fails, this is the point he is offered to become a Divine Extremist. It's the times when you lay broken in front of an Elder vampire, your allies dead, your resources spent with nothing but a scratch on the vampire. It's the times when you realize your last family member, your daughter got killed by a cultist of the demon you have been chasing across the state, staring at a mocking note in your hands written with her blood.
If you are willing to sacrifice everything left, even the remains of yourself you will be given an offer of power from the Ministers. A power that cannot be opposed nor denied if he accepts. A chance to murder that Elder vampire with your bare hands, a chance to finish off the demon that killed your daughter and avenge her.

Divine Extremists are usually the sanest of the Extremists, relatively.

Spoiler: Divine Drawbacks

Divine power comes with Divine drawbacks. A normal human can't bear it so the holy flame that powers the Extremist also burns them away to make room.
First, say goodbye to your previous personality unless you were already an Autocrat, Dreamer or Fanatic.
Second; chose the primary Derangement you had. The most impactful Derangement for your character. The divine burns every other derangement away except for this derangement, which now makes the core of your characters and the lens of your worldview as the human personality can't withstand the force of the divine. Furthermore, you can no longer mitigate the core derangement with Willpower.
Lastly, your Willpower is now broken, you are a broken person. You cannot raise your Willpower anymore. You cannot regain Willpower from sleep or day-to-day life, only from accomplishing goals. But even then you are uninspired and listless compared to normal humans.

Spoiler: Corrupt Extremists

What if, what if you don't need to sacrifice anything? Nor prove yourself? What if there was a way to succeed, a way to become powerful with only a small, incredibly small, minor, insignificant little bargain? Even if you refuse, don't worry, they will be there when you need them the most. Why sacrifice, when you can just accept their offer? Makes sense to me.
A Corrupted Extremist is a hunter who made a deal with a powerful evil, a demon. In exchange, you become powerful at the cost of doing the demon's bidding. Which starts small and insignificant but more and more becomes more obscene and twisted. Of course not, don't listen to his lies

But it's worth it, right? Of course, go ahead.

Spoiler: Corrupt Drawbacks

First, you are no longer considered an Imbued. In fact, for all intents and purposes, you are now a creature of darkness like Vampires. This is permanent and even if you manage to break the deal and expel the demon you will still be tainted. Maybe even after you die too. Welcome to the club...
Second, a human soul can't bear to be so close to a demon. Anytime you interact with a demon or use its power you have a decent chance to lose Willpower, sometimes permanently. It's only a matter of time...
Third, you are no longer connected to the Messengers nor the Ministry. No more information nor guidance from them. Only me...
Lastly, you will be slowly but surely corrupted by the demon. And when your Willpower hits zero, your soul will be destroyed and the Demon in question will possess your body. Granting them the perfect vessel for possession as this is the only way a Hunter can ever get possessed by something. By willingly allowing the demon to bypass their immunity.

Hey, at least you can continue playing as a Demon the Fallen character if you want. Not to mention I meant it when I said an Imbued is a perfect vessel for demons. I think they are the only type of living vessel that can even house Earthbound demons.

Spoiler: Independent Extremists

Independent Extremists, those who were left alone by the Above and Below or those who rejected both for some reason or another.
There is nothing else to do but go down even more, nothing to lose, nothing to regret. There is no way off Mr. Bone's Wild Ride.
So you break yourself even more until even the restrains on your power are loosened. Since there is nearly nothing else for these restraints to hang into. A Divine Extremist may have a demanding manager phoning in every day or so and Corrupted Extremist may share their body with a corrupting demon, but they are still relatively sane.
An Independent Extremist is barely human. They are nothing but their goal manifested. They are free to pursue their goals without any input from Above or Below. At the cost of their everything.

Like, no joke, breaking character here to say this. Even becoming an Independent Extremist will cost you heavily. As in the majority of your personality will be destroyed and you will get -5 Permanent Willpower reduction.

Spoiler: Independent Drawbacks

First, you are your primary Virtue made manifest. You can no longer increase other Virtues.
Second, when interacting with normal people, even other normal Imbued, it's obvious that you are not normal and very disturbed. You are more and more inhuman every day you live. Which halves your Social dice pool, rounded down.
Third, you are compelled by your very Virtue to do things as you embody that Virtue as it's personification. Once per story ST can control your character to do things based on your Virtue. And you cannot deny it, even with what's left of your Willpower.

But all things must come to an end.

Spoiler: The End of the Line

An Extremist can only contain this might for so long because for all the powers they have, they are still Human. Eventually, their body, their spirit, their mind will be unable to cope with the very power it holds and break down.
It is a tragic end, for all the sacrifices and effort. To defend humanity. But it's also an inspiring one in my opinion. Because these are people who sacrificed everything they have to face against the Darkness of the World.

I hope you liked it, Extremist Hunters are one of my favorite things in WoD.
(Also, there are things hidden in this post. Nothing important, only fluff)

 

[Maragas]

It's time to hear about Bloodlines.
Bloodlines can be two distinct types.
A) Offshoots: As you know Vampires belong to clans, the common ancestry and traits each vampires exhibit. But sometimes offshoots happen. A group of Elders leaves and creates their own line with blackjack and hookers, some separate 4th Gen Methuselah other than main clans ancestors start siring childe because they were bored and sometimes it's just political or even superficial. This also includes powerful Elders or even Methuselahs experimenting and creating new Disciplines and even heavily altering their blood so much that they can't be confused with the main clan. Very rarely, a Bloodline could belong to an entirely different Antediluvian than the main ones.
-The most common type of Offshoot is Antitribu. Camarilla Clans members in Sabbat or Sabbat clans members in Camarilla are called Antitribu and usually looked at with suspicion by others since they are normally an enemy clan that deflected to the other. (Other than Nosferatu, they just play both sides even though they are officially Camarilla)
B) Reduced Clans: Basically Salubri and Cappadocians. They were originally powerful clans that got decimated by Tremere and Giovanni respectively. Nowadays their numbers are so low that they are considered a Bloodline.

Either way, Bloodlines have way less presence and numbers compared to the Clans and might even be near extinction or straight up extinct, depending on your ST.

Let's start with Baali.

Spoiler: Baali

TLRD: "Like, man, why not kill everyone in an orgy of fire and death, blood and power with demons to hasten the inevitable end of the world? So join us before you die, or don't, you will die in the end anyway"
We have already gone through this song and dance before. Same deal as Nephandi. The world is going to end, why not have fun while ending it yourself. Every other vampire hates them, even Sabbat created a special Inquisition to hunt down Infernalist like Baali. Baali hates them back.

Spoiler: The Boogeyman

They are basically the boogeyman of Vampires, especially because they can re-embrace you to becoming a Baali. It does need a willingness from the target but well, after several weeks or months of torment, you will say yes to nearly anything. (Or Blood Bonds, or Domination, etc)

Spoiler: Baali: I die to make you die? Excellent bargain.

But since everyone hates them and the Inquisition of the olden days burned the majority of their members they are a Bloodline rather than a clan. Still, they are an incredible threat. They are not just deal makers with bargains, they don't care about ruling in Hell, they want for the world to end and end fast.
And for this they will sacrifice everything, squander wealth, spend blood and effort and make deals they can't actually hold with no shame and regret. Ending the world or just getting closer to the end is its own reward after all, no matter the price.
Not surprisingly, they are Weak to holy symbols of any faith and True Faith is doubly effective against Baali. You can even say they are the reason why the Society of Leopold thinks Vampires are spawns of the devil.

Their unique discipline is Daimoinon, Black Arts. Mostly demonic and curse based.

Next one on the list, Blood Brothers.

Spoiler: Blood Brothers

They are Sabbat shock troopers created through the machinations of Sabbat Tremere and Tzimisce sorcerers. They are small groups of hive-minded "Kindred". They are also all identical to each other in the circle.
Naturally, any Blood Brother that displays individuality is killed.

Spoiler: Anything other than Brute force? Nope

While they are fully loyal and strong brutes, they lack creativity, trickery, clever tactics or even improvisation. So they are only really useful for direct missions.

So, why are they created in secrecy? Why are they one of the secret weapons of Sabbat? Because whoever Tzimisce was the project head for Blood Brother was nuts! He created a perfect Discipline for combat.

Spoiler: Sanguinus

When the circle is big enough, when Veteran Blood Brothers take the field, they are carnage incarnate. Imagine fighting 4th Gen Abomination straight out of Necromorph outbreak with more than 20 Health levels, Strength, Stamina and Perception in 20s (enough to match miles long Space Monsters for example) and with Celerity, Potence and Fortitude. Oh they also get +1 to their dice pool for every physical action for every Blood Brother other than the first one in the circle, which at max is +9.

In the end, Blood Brothers are rare, simple-minded and nearly no player ever plays it but they are incredibly threatening at their niche. Outside of that...well...

Spoiler

I meant it, I never heard anyone playing them. Even though in theory it could be interesting to play a hivemind Kindred.

Now, into the Sirens aka Daughters of Cacophony.

Spoiler: Daughters of Cacophony

Emerged during the 19th century, they are mostly female Kindred with either the best music and song in the world or the worst. Since it can turn you mad.
Also, the first part was a lie.

Spoiler: The Orchestra of the Black Hand

They were actually created by the True Black Hand Tal'Mahe'Ra to destroy Camarilla within but they eventually managed to slip by. Mostly because they were stupid enough to actually add a Malkavian to the mix.

Spoiler: The Fugue

Their main weakness and overall madness is the fact that they constantly hear music, each Daughter hears an unique music to themselves, so much that it drowns out the world. And sometimes, they are drowned in it as well. Called "Banshees" by others, they sing the only thing that matters to them anymore, the song, the music in their hearts.
Their unique discipline, Melpominee, is a discipline based on speech and song. And multiple Sirens can use Melpominee in a concert, magnifying their effects. A group of Sirens is not only a great band but also a deadly and insidious knife to the heart through their music.

So, any bloodline that interests you guys so far? Even prefer it over some of the main clans? Did you ever play a Bloodline?

(This is shorter than expected because I was foolish enough to forget that I didn't have a word file for the previous "Vampiric Bloodlines" post and I deleted the post while writing Extremist Hunters on SB. So I had to basically redo the post. Ugh. It's all my fault in this case.)

 

[Maragas]

It's time to do something different. I am going to talk about Mage but not your typical mages. It's time to go back to the past, and meet The Order of Reason!
Want to see how the Technocracy was before modern times? You are in the right place.

Spoiler: Daedaleans

Daedalean, that is the title of those who join the Order of Reason, some of the most creative, visionary, and inspired people in Europe. Scholars, scientists, artists, explorers, merchants and doctors of all manner. They make dreams a reality not because of vanity or conceit but for the benefit of mankind.

Spoiler: The Door is Open

To outsiders, the thought of an alliance of scientists and visionaries across Europe and beyond sounds like pure fantasy. But that is the Order of Reason, an intricate support network of laboratories, universities, religious retreats, guilds, lodges and merchant houses from the heart of Europe to the far east.

So, let's delve into Conventions of Old!

Spoiler: Artificers (Future Iteration X)

Artificers, the greatest industrialists, mathematicians, alchemists and chemists of the Order of Reason. Their quality is unmatched, from war machines to mundane items they are creating stuff day and night in the name of progress and perfection.

Forgers (Vulcans): They are the ones who innovate everything from gigantic war machines to common equipment and field gear. Also one of the hardest guilds to enter as it could take years of dedication to your craft.
Mauls (Hammers): The military arm of the Artificers. Mauls use whatever Forgers create. They defend engines of war on the battlefield and defend the Forgers while they create masterworks. In fact, their first and most important duty is guarding the forges of the Artificers.
Pythagorai: Master Mathematicians and intellectual scholars of the physical world. From engineering to geology to arts of debate they master it and research the workings of the universe.
Bright Lions: Chemistry and alchemy are their butter and bread. The essential suppliers of Abundanti's Oil, the fuel of the strongest and most impressive machines of the Order of Reason. Masters of Matter.

Spoiler: Celestial Masters (First half of the future Void Engineers)

Celestial Masters. Astronomers, Prophets and Diplomats of the Order of Reason. The seekers of secrets and pursuers of Enlightenment.

House of Daedalus: They dedicate themselves fully to the ideals of the Order of Reason. They don't care about divides between Conventions or petty rivalries. What they want is the pursuit of the ideals of the Order. They are master diplomats and jack of all trades and they would happily cooperate with anyone and invite others to their cabals and lodges. They usually leave the leadership to others but will always give advice, especially if they feel like their patron is doing something wrong. They are very diplomatic but they think they are the embodiment of the Daedalean ideals and thus might see others as lacking.
House of Selene (Cassandras): The ones who dedicate themselves to the prophecies and stars. Some might believe them to be charlatans fooling the gullible but others know better since the Celestial Masters of Selene are often right about the future. When a Cassandra demand something, you should be ready and wary.
House of Prometheus: The Sky is the limit and Prometheans will break it. They see the future, the destiny of mankind in the skies and it will be a Promethean that will bring it to the masses. Unlike other Celestial Masters they prefer seclusion and exploration of the Sky rather than the world below. They also see themselves as the elite of the Convention and beneath them to dirty themselves with the world below the sky. They have a rivalry with the House of Selene.

Spoiler: Craftmasons (Doesn't exists in the future)

Craftmasons, the builders, the architects and usually grunts and sidekicks of the Order of Reason. (Also, Communists) Do you need some equipment but don't have the means to contact a Forger of Artificer Convention? Craftmasons aren't the best but hey, it's something. You need funding for your operation but it's too risky and even if it's successful it's not going to be worth much for the High Guild to sponsor? Craftmasons can give you some cash, it may not be much but it's something. You need soldiers and aren't picky about their quality? Craftmasons, they aren't the best but they are highly motivated. The list goes on.

Stone Guild: The most visible and known guild of the Craftmasons. And the one thing they are truly best at. Buildings of all sizes and types are built by Craftmasons and it's the reason why they are known as Craftmasons. If you need something to be built, be it an Labyrinth or just a simple hut, they are your guys.
Coin Guild: The poor man's High Guild, literally. They specialize in providing sponsorship to risky and not very profitable ventures. Sure, you aren't going to stay in nice places nor make a large profit but it's something if you have been rejected by everyone from the High Guild to your own convention to muggle Nobles and Merchants.
Hemlock Guild: Spies of Craftmasons, though their biggest strength in that department is their commoner network throughout the world.
Scroll Guild: Mostly teachers and historians, they are the nerds of the Craftmasons. Though occasionally adventurous ones risk their lives to document the unknown.
Sword Guild: Do you not have the money to hire Resplented Axes of High Guild? You couldn't convince your convention's military guild to sponsor your cause because it's clearly not worth it? Sword Guild might give you the chance as long as you can convince them with your ideals. (Though quality might wary)
Level Guild: Do you like Revolutions? Because they love Revolutions. Level Guild are the masters of..."political reform"
Arrow Guild: They are like first responders to any dangerous place where commoners are suffering. They specialize in resolving problems and easing the suffering of the people. (They are very friendly with House of Fire of Cosians since they basically work together to stop plagues, both mundane and supernatural, from affecting the populace)

Spoiler: The High Guild (Future Syndicate)

The High Guild, merchants, mercenaries, leaders and commanders, swashbucklers and moneymakers, quality is the name of the game. (Also, Capitalists) They are some of the most elite Daedaleans of the Order of Reasons, only rivaled by their cost. But know this, if you buy their services you will not regret it. And if you can get them to patron you, the money will not be an issue.

The Sun Guild: You want your projects done? Get a Sun Guilder. They are elite leaders, commanders and socializers, so much that House Daedalus of Celestial Masters considers them their rivals. In fact, in the Order of Reason majority of the wealth and resources could be said to be managed by them.
Resplendent Axe: Elite Mercenaries. They are some of the best equipped, best trained and most experienced soldiers in the Order of Reason. This leads to strong rivalries with other militaristic groups of the Order but they have what it takes to back it up.
Albatross: You want to make some money? Are you willing to take risks and suffer for it? Albatross will happily help you. They are the primary wealth and resource gatherers for the Order of Reason. They create trade routes, marketplaces and go on expeditions.
Rose Guild: A Guild made out of rich reckless swashbucklers. Unlike other guilds, rather than make money they are here to adventure! You know the classic tale of "Rich Prince/Princess leaves home for adventure" stories? Every Rose Guild member is one and all of them survived through their youth of reckless adventure.
Patrons Guild: They are the spies and enforces of the High Guild. Their mission is to expand the power and influence of the High Guild. They don't gather wealth, they gather the Loyalty of others. And for that reason, they take loyalty and betrayal very seriously.

Spoiler: Cosians (Future Progenitors)

Cosians (The Hippocratic Circle), healers, researchers, educators, and professors. They are one of the most critical Conventions of the Order of Reason. They are the ones who educate the masses, research the human condition, heal the sick, and prevent and cure plagues and diseases. And in World of Darkness where death is everywhere, they brought the light of medicine to the masses.
They are mostly split into three factions among five houses. Elementalists, the researchers and masters of ancient and lost knowledge. Alchemists, who prefer the theory of Alchemy to the pure medicine of other Cosians. (And the one Paracelsus was the part of). Lastly, Vivisectionsists are Cosians that study and master the anatomy of humans to further the science of medicine.

House of Knives: They are the ones who face the worst of the world firsthand. They are the battle surgeons, they are on the frontlines unlike most of their colleagues. Some of them also make excellent assassins and torturers, who can keep their captives alive through hell and back.
House of Books: Scholars among Scholars. Most of them are busy with teaching and helping people to actively work with a cabal but they are willing to give their aid if their patron is willing to sponsor a local school or refuge.
House of Mandrake: Medicine men of the rural and agricultural areas. They are here to tend to the needs of the villages and other far away places. And one of few Cosians who have dealings with Verbena.
House of Fire: They are the ones who deal with the terrifying plagues of the World of Darkness. From mundane plagues to the supernatural plagues of the Ratkin they are here to cure it. Incredibly skilled doctors in all fields but surgery.
House of Olympus: Known as master chemists to others, they are alchemists of the Cosians. Unlike the focus of Life of all other Cosians, they master the Matter to bring life to their patients.

Spoiler: Explorers (Second half of the future Void Engineers)

Explorers (Seekers), some might say they are the physical counterparts of the researchers and professors of the Order of Reason. They explore properties of the universe while the Explorers explore and adventure in the vast universe. Seekers are adventurers, monster hunters, treasure seekers, demon slayers, explorers of the unknown, and builders of ships that take them to their destinations.

Herculinians: Only the elites of the Explorators and the Order of Reason can join them. Just like their namesake, they are here to accomplish grand tasks and missions. The best of the best, until they die, to forever pursue grand and grander accomplishments. Boisterous, reckless, and full of dreams. If you want adventure, this is your place.
Odysseans: They are the masters and overseers of the fleets of the Order of Reason. Always on the move, always on the sea, and always ready to set sail.
Alexandrians: Land counterparts of the Odysseans. They are not only masters of land exploration and travel but also specialists in foreign cultures and languages. If you are going to some faraway place through land and more importantly deal with cultures and people there, no one is better than Alexandrians.
The Order of the Grail: Their number one goal, travel to the vast unknown, explore it, and document it. If you are traveling somewhere far away, their archives and experience will be priceless. (Its price is negotiable though)
The Guild of Forge and Sail: Possibly the most valuable members of the Convention, they are the shipbuilders. Everything from small boats to Skyriggers are their specialty. Usually incredibly influential thanks to their essential nature and they look after each other.
The League of St. Paul: A cooperative guild made from both Explorers and The Cabal of Pure Thought. They are missionaries who want to bring the good word of Jesus Christ to others far away.

Spoiler: The Ksirafai (Doesn't exists in the future)

The Ksirafai, the enforces and spies of the Order of Reason. Whether he is openly or secretly Ksirafai, they are always looking out for threats and corruption within the Order of Reason. Inner Labyrinth members of them are called Etfalti and they are legendary for their devotion and skill.
(They left the Order of Reason in 1716, erased their traces of existence and pretended to "defeat" their own Guild to join the Order of Hermes as House Janissary. But in modern times they got crippled during the destruction of Diosstep and later got found out by Euthanatos to be the Ksirafai and killed.)

Spoiler: The Cabal of Pure Thought (Future New World Order)

The Cabal of Pure Thought, people of faith of all types. Some are masters of diplomacy, some are masters of fire and sword but all united under the belief of "One God, One World, One Church".

Illustrafatore (The Illustrious): These Gabrielites are those who focus on the protection and improvement of the masses than crusading against the supernatural. Usually they work together with Craftmasons to solve and help with the problems of the common folk and have little patience with merchants, rogues, or loner researchers. Not surprisingly, the Illustrious members are commonly from poor backgrounds and know firsthand the realities the commoners face daily.
Poenitenti (Doves of Christ): Scholars, healers, and monks. They are the diplomatic and peaceful faction within the Cabal. They only arm themselves for self-defense and prefer to convince people with words and actions rather than "fire and brimstone". They will always try to confirm first someone is actually guilty before going to Venatores to report. But they aren't as tolerant as Celestial Chorus. (Even if they aren't as extreme as Venatores/Templars/The Inquisition)
Venatores (The Falcons of Gabriel): You know the Inquisition? Venatores is the Inquisition with the Order of Reason. They don't even call themselves Daedaleans. If you have one in a cabal (or you are a Falcon and you are in a cabal), they are either sent there as a watcher because of suspicious behavior and rumors or the cabal (or their patron) in question is powerful enough to demand a Falcon to join the cabal.

And that's it! The Order of Reason and their guilds. It's quite the journey, isn't it? Especially how it evolved. I still can't believe the Cabal of Pure Thought turned in the New World Order.
Also, for those who are wondering where is the Voltarian Order (Future Sons of Ether) and the Difference Engineers (Future Virtual Adepts)? Easy, they don't exist yet. They are basically last-minute additions to the Order of Reason before it become the Technocracy.

I hope this was informative. So, any questions? How did you find the Order of Reason? Which Convention and sub-guild you would be in an Order of Reason chronicle?

 

[Maragas]

Here Repentant_Dragos, the latest threadmark is what you are looking for.

 

[Repentant_Dragos]

Here Repentant_Dragos, the latest threadmark is what you are looking for.

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I love them!

Except for the Ksirafai, fuck those guys.

 

[gereh]

To be fair, the Sorcerers Crusade Rulebook is contradicted (in tone, I mean) by the actual Order of Reason book (which I was able to access through means I am not sure I should discuss here), which says that it was a myth that the Order of Reason was at constant war with the Traditions in the beginning and even says that there was a truce or even peace in many places.

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That why I did pick out the example, because the way they were founded should at least tells us something about them. I personally assume that the place they were at peace with the Traditions were places (and times) they were fighting against bigger threats, but than again that is me assuming stuff and trying to make sense out of the information we were given.

So, any bloodline that interests you guys so far? Even prefer it over some of the main clans? Did you ever play a Bloodline?

Click to shrink...

I personally like the Kiasyd, those weird Lasombra who did drink Fae blood and now have some Fae related powers, I had an elder one as a SC in one of my chronicles. He was eaten by a Tzimisce and stuff turned out even more weird.

Also I like the concept of the Lhiannan, they very well may have been the inspiration for the circle of the crone in VtR, which are one of my favorite Covenant in VtR (together with Ordo Dracul).

Oh than there is also the Tzimisce Bloodline, I think they called Tremere or something, they are pretty powerful, but not as cool as Tzimisce themselves

 

[Repentant_Dragos]

That why I did pick out the example, because the way they were founded should at least tells us something about them. I personally assume that the place they were at peace with the Traditions were places (and times) they were fighting against bigger threats, but than again that is me assuming stuff and trying to make sense out of the information we were given.

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And the Craftmasons were founded just before the assault at Mistridge; the attack on the Ivory Tower was a few centuries later and it was said that they were growing more 'fanatical' during those centuries.

 

[gereh]

And the Craftmasons were founded just before the assault at Mistridge; the attack on the Ivory Tower was a few centuries later and it was said that they were growing more 'fanatical' during those centuries.

Click to shrink...

A I think we are talking past each other right now, my they in were "they were founded" was about the order of reason not the Craftmasons, sorry if that wasn't clear English isn't my first language, so sometimes I have difficulties finding the right words. So the Craftmasons together with the High Guild did found the order of reason after the attack on the Ivory tower after killing a (mostly) innocent mage. Wanted to point out that while the Order of Reason may have been at peace with the Traditions at sometime their whole founding point was to fight a war against the supernatural, not really caring that much if the person they were after was innocent or not.

The Craftmasons were founded beforehand when they did split from the Order of Hermes (I thinl that was around the same time House Tremere turned). That split was also pretty aggressively, as in they disagreed with the Order of Hermes philosophy and so they did go out and tried to kill them. Not really the nicest thing to do, but than again killing someone because they believed something different was pretty normal back in the days.

The way I did see them was always a bit like the people during the French or Russian revolution (and those people also were betrayed afterwards and they ideals twisted into an instrument of oppression) just with less of a reason to actually fight, like how does killing someone who hoards their knowledge help spreading the knowledge to everyone? And they also killed a lot of innocent in the process, so wouldn't say they are the "good guys" but in the shades of grey that everything comes in WOD they are one the lighter side.

Edit: It would be against the rules to point out a open directory, which has most of the older books, right?

 

[Repentant_Dragos]

A I think we are talking past each other right now, my they in were "they were founded" was about the order of reason not the Craftmasons, sorry if that wasn't clear English isn't my first language, so sometimes I have difficulties finding the right words. So the Craftmasons together with the High Guild did found the order of reason after the attack on the Ivory tower after killing a (mostly) innocent mage. Wanted to point out that while the Order of Reason may have been at peace with the Traditions at sometime their whole founding point was to fight a war against the supernatural, not really caring that much if the person they were after was innocent or not.

The Craftmasons were founded beforehand when they did split from the Order of Hermes (I thinl that was around the same time House Tremere turned). That split was also pretty aggressively, as in they disagreed with the Order of Hermes philosophy and so they did go out and tried to kill them. Not really the nicest thing to do, but than again killing someone because they believed something different was pretty normal back in the days.

The way I did see them was always a bit like the people during the French or Russian revolution (and those people also were betrayed afterwards and they ideals twisted into an instrument of oppression) just with less of a reason to actually fight, like how does killing someone who hoards their knowledge help spreading the knowledge to everyone? And they also killed a lot of innocent in the process, so wouldn't say they are the "good guys" but in the shades of grey that everything comes in WOD they are one the lighter side.

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I read the Dark Ages: Mage Storyteller's Guide before losing access to it; the Hermetics at Mistridge were conducting inhumane experiments on local peasants, and the Craftmasons only split from the Order of Hermes when the latter refused to sanction the Magi in Mistridge for their actions. So blasting Mistridge with cannons was semi-justified.

 

[gereh]

I read the Dark Ages: Mage Storyteller's Guide before losing access to it; the Hermetics at Mistridge were conducting inhumane experiments on local peasants, and the Craftmasons only split from the Order of Hermes when the latter refused to sanction the Magi in Mistridge for their actions. So blasting Mistridge with cannons was semi-justified.

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Never heard of that, there doesn't seem to be a "Dark Ages: Mage Storyteller's Guide" so I assume you meant "Dark Ages: Mage Rulebook", right? Will have to look that up once I'm at home.

 

[Repentant_Dragos]

Never heard of that, there doesn't seem to be a "Dark Ages: Mage Storyteller's Guide" so I assume you meant "Dark Ages: Mage Rulebook", right? Will have to look that up once I'm at home.

Click to shrink...

Oh, it's the Dark Ages: Mage Grimoire.