Going to war with the R.O.B.

[humon]

I was playing an otome game on itch.io yesterday, and when I reached the end of content it left me awake in bed for a couple hours after trying to puzzle out the right strategy I would want to take if the story continued and I had complete freedom of choice. The Random Omnipotent Being in the game had been very vague at the beginning, keeping the (female) Self-Insert on a strict need to know basis as far as her mission and even the nature of the body she reincarnated into. Later on in the story, you start to learn that the R.O.B. likes to alter people's memories to better manipulate them (sort of like ghost hacking in Ghost In The Shell), and she reveals a bit more about her agenda, making her case for what has to be done. There were red flags everywhere, and my first instinct is that whatever happens, I need to try to thwart the R.O.B.'s plans wherever I can. I don't know what she's planning, but I just know that I have to stop her.

Has anyone else had this kind of experience with a story? Where you gradually learn that the R.O.B. is malevolent or has been manipulating you? And how does one fight back against a goddess? How can you challenge a perfect immortal machine?

Some further details:

In this story, the SI's original life was a miserable one where she was burned as an infant, which left her crippled and disfigured. Her mother was a harem girl and her father was not the harem lord, so she was disowned and sent to a convent to be raised by nuns. There, she got into some heresy and was blinded for it, then sent on missionary work to Siberia (or the fantasy world equivalent), and was eventually burned alive inside a church when Mongol raiders sacked the Chukchi village she was preaching in (or their fantasy world equivalents, they all have different names in-story, but these are the real world parallels I chose).

The R.O.B. is a goddess called the Weaver, who interviews the SI about her life story and then says she will craft a new body for the SI to inhabit; one that is beautiful and unscarred, how the SI would have looked if she had not been burned as a baby. The SI wakes up in the frozen ruins of the church where she died, and by the Weaver's design (being an agent of Fate), the SI is found by some kind of ancient vampire lord who was traveling nearby. The Weaver's goal is that the SI must seduce this vampire lord and become pregnant by him, with the expectation that the child will be a reincarnated god. You later find out that the body you reincarnated into is not your own but one that was selectively bred for the Weaver's purpose, and your soul was merely pushed into it by some ritual that took place a few hours before you woke up. The body is that of a vampiress, but in this world vampires are not undead but are living creatures who merely have immortality, thirst for blood, and a talent for mind control that must be learned through decades of practice.

Anyways, it comes to a head with the vampire lord recognizing that you are of a very ancient and powerful bloodline and that he intends to take you traveling with him and tutor you before he dies so that you will be strong enough to survive in the world. Being of such a powerful bloodline but without any experience as a vampire, the SI would be an easy and high value target for any other vampire who wants to drink her dry. But the vampire lord's condition for helping you is that you have to become his concubine. So, essentially, all the Weaver's objectives are dropped straight into your lap. If you don't go with him, the alternative is that he leaves you in a town under the protection of one of his vassals, but that particular lord comes off a bit creepy, like he can't be trusted.

What kept me up strategizing was... how should I go about thwarting the Weaver's plans without putting myself in a weak position by rejecting the vampire lord's help?

[ ] Try to hardball him by telling him you'll agree to all his other terms except for the sex, and hope he wants this deal too badly to insist (he will gain other benefits, like drinking your delicious holy blood)

[ ] Accept his deal, but insist he pull out each time (as if you'll be able to stop him from doing what he wants)

[ ] Accept his deal but then abort whatever bastard he puts in you (but could you really bring yourself to do it?)

[ ] Accept his deal but get yourself knocked up by some random human first (...gross, you're in the middle of Siberia)

[ ] Tell him the truth about the Weaver's plans, at the risk that it only makes him want to impregnate you even more (for what man would not want to father a god?)

[ ] Reject his deal, at the risk of being left at the mercy of his vassal or whatever other shitbag comes along next (or even the Weaver's agents whom she will surely send to 'correct' you)

[ ] Suck it up and play into the Weaver's hands for now, and look for a better opportunity to defy her later, after the god is born

(Edit: It's not like the vampire lord is such a terrible match, he's quite handsome and seems like an okay guy. But at this point in the story you've only known him for 4 or 5 days, and also he tells you that he's planning to off himself at the end of the winter, so whatever kid you have with him is gonna grow up without a father and it's gonna be a complete mess. Not an ideal situation at all.)


And more generally, does anyone else have stories about games or quests or fics where the SI tries to outwit the ROB and break the system?

 

[TFTwink]

Is... Is this a grittier Castlevania Anime (TM) plot?

I suppose if the character herself was raised a woman, it would depend on her views on promiscuity and child-raising skills. Option 3 would probably be the meta-gaming option.

 

[humon]

Nah, it's got nothing to do with Castlevania. If it was, there would be a lot more whipping and axe-throwing. And holy water burning everyone. No, it's just one of those weird tumblr-style stories I encountered on itch.io when I was bored. Written by women for women, but sometimes I like to peek into that world and try my hand as a man... see what I can make of it...

Option 3, yeah, the metagame. But as I considered it I imagined myself in her shoes, about to snuff out an innocent life, and I just couldn't do it. Spiting the ROB is not worth it. I think I would end up taking the last option, and looking for a better opportunity. That's what I always end up doing with these kinds of VNs (until I just stop playing). I'm always waiting for the option to become available to tear down everything the author intended so that the game is forced to stop and say, "What the hell, player?!". Or at least, a good option to tell all these side characters exactly what I think of them. Sadly, such options are rarely presented...

 

[Theman]

First off I probably wouldn't oppose the weaver muh atheist rebel against god trope is shit and if it is played I want a story where it is subverted and God wins and the MC is punished for ever.

Anyway if I was isekaid here I'd be annoyed at being a woman, and I would tell the vampire dude that the weaver does want him to breed me to make a demigod or whatever and ask if he still wants it.

I'd also ask him to not kill himself and take responsibility by helping raise his child. No fucking going for cigarettes or milk.

But seriously this sounds interesting what is the story called and where is it?

 

[humon]

It's called Bride of Shadows

 

[Theman]

It's called Bride of Shadows

Click to shrink...

Thanks. Also if you want to avoid people "metagaming" or doing the abortion option. You could alter stuff a bit. An example would be to basically make Buddhism true, that's why you were able to reincarnate, and why the weaver isn't the highest God so it's possible to beat them. You could have it so that you get a cheat skill(not an OP one but a very useful one) you could call it Buddha eyes. It gives you the ability to see Karma and know what is objectively moral and immoral. You can see how evil people are and how good they are, you also know how good or bad certain actions are. You know that if your karma is too bad you can be reborn into hell and there is nothing that can stop it, it's a law of physics basically. But you also know what is good and can gain good karma that will improve your life either now, or a future life. You could have it so that you see abortion and killing babies especially those that are yours gives you a massive negative karma score that would gurantee you suffer.

People may bitch about it but still. Karma is what is objectively good or bad not what you personally like or dislike.

 

[humon]

I don't have influence over the scenario, so all of that is moot. Plus, such a karma tracker would only amount to a debug variable telling you what the game developer thinks is right and wrong.

This is more of a thought experiment about what a normal person without debug powers might do in that sort of situation. The options I listed are the ones I came up with myself after I reached the end of content, and I tried to list everything that was a viable strategy (and I invite people to add strategies that I missed). But the real dilemma for me is when you realize you're being jerked around by a divine entity that does not have your best interests in mind, any more than the architect of the matrix has Neo's best interests in mind. But you have to be very careful about when and how you make your move in these kinds of situations, as you may only get one chance to exert autonomy before the ROB makes its counter-move. Take as an example, when Captain Kirk asked the big blue face why God needs a starship, and his ass got lightning bolted in response. But then Kirk called in the big guns from orbit to give the big blue face something to choke on.

 

[Theman]

I don't have influence over the scenario, so all of that is moot. Plus, such a karma tracker would only amount to a debug variable telling you what the game developer thinks is right and wrong.

This is more of a thought experiment about what a normal person without debug powers might do in that sort of situation. The options I listed are the ones I came up with myself after I reached the end of content, and I tried to list everything that was a viable strategy (and I invite people to add strategies that I missed). But the real dilemma for me is when you realize you're being jerked around by a divine entity that does not have your best interests in mind, any more than the architect of the matrix has Neo's best interests in mind. But you have to be very careful about when and how you make your move in these kinds of situations, as you may only get one chance to exert autonomy before the ROB makes its counter-move. Take as an example, when Captain Kirk asked the big blue face why God needs a starship, and his ass got lightning bolted in response. But then Kirk called in the big guns from orbit to give the big blue face something to choke on.

Click to shrink...

Oh I thought that this was a what if thread?

As for the suggestion to avoid abortion it's only the game developer saying what is right or wrong in a meta sense. If you only look at it within the scenario you should not engage with the author's real or perceived beliefs.
Just like you might have opinions on morality and charity in real life, but in star wars, certain actions like refusing to give to charity for instance are objectively wrong. It literally gives dark side points. You could be a Randian Objectivist and try to argue that charity is wrong, but inside star wars it is objectively correct.

Also just a quick question I haven't finished playing the game. But why does the weaver not have your best interests at heart? Wouldn't having your child be a literal demigod actually be the best thing for a woman?

 

[humon]

You'll find out later that the body you reincarnated into is not even yours, the weaver just altered your memories to make you think it is. Really it's some sacrifice victim they selectively bred for this purpose, or something like that. The details are a little fuzzy. The point is, you learn that from the weaver's point of view, you are just a means to an end, where the end is some kind of eugenics program to bring back vampires from the brink of extinction, or something like that. Generally in these sorts of situations, when I discover I am just a means to an end, and the end is not entirely clear, I err on the side of, "Whatever the plan is, it's probably terrible and I need to disrupt it". My reasoning is: if it wasn't something terrible, then the weaver would have had no problem telling me the truth from the beginning. The fact that lies were necessary means that there is some evil that needs to be covered up. Maybe your demigod child is going to destroy the world or something. And if you think, "No, I'll raise him not to do that", then that decision will be taken out of your hands too: you'll be eliminated from the weave as soon as you are no longer necessary for its outcome. That's how it usually is when dealing with non-human intelligences, like AI, corporations, demons, or pagan gods, you should expect them to act in the most psychopathic way imaginable, because they can (who's going to stop them?)

 

[Theman]

You'll find out later that the body you reincarnated into is not even yours, the weaver just altered your memories to make you think it is. Really it's some sacrifice victim they selectively bred for this purpose, or something like that. The details are a little fuzzy. The point is, you learn that from the weaver's point of view, you are just a means to an end, where the end is some kind of eugenics program to bring back vampires from the brink of extinction, or something like that. Generally in these sorts of situations, when I discover I am just a means to an end, and the end is not entirely clear, I err on the side of, "Whatever the plan is, it's probably terrible and I need to disrupt it". My reasoning is: if it wasn't something terrible, then the weaver would have had no problem telling me the truth from the beginning. The fact that lies were necessary means that there is some evil that needs to be covered up. Maybe your demigod child is going to destroy the world or something. And if you think, "No, I'll raise him not to do that", then that decision will be taken out of your hands too: you'll be eliminated from the weave as soon as you are no longer necessary for its outcome. That's how it usually is when dealing with non-human intelligences, like AI, corporations, demons, or pagan gods, you should expect them to act in the most psychopathic way imaginable, because they can (who's going to stop them?)

Click to shrink...

I get it's not your body, but didden't you say that your previous life was killed/ and destroyed by Mongols?

Umm it's a God why would it tell you everything like you are it's equal? Like flat out thinking you and the God are the same and the God will take you into it's confidence is insane.

Also it's pretty crazy to think that a powerful being will act in the most psycho way possible. I'm assuming the weaver is either the God of vampires, or wants your child to be born so that he can be king of the vampires for some reason. Since you are a vampire it's very good for your progeny to become king of the vampire. Thinking this will destroy the world is kinda crazy to assume the worst in everyone.

 

[humon]

Indeed, the player's previous life ended before the story starts. So she's like someone being called out of retirement to do a specific thing. But in such a situation, you'd want to know why you're meant to do that thing. My stance towards the weaver would be: You may be a god, and you owe me nothing, but if you need my help then you're not omnipotent, and I have some leverage here. If you want my help, you should tell me the truth about why. If you don't want to tell me the truth, then smite me and I'll go back to the void where I started. Maybe you will find someone else to do your bidding, but it won't be me.

This is the only way to ensure that you are not being taken for a sucker or used as a puppet for evil ends. When you don't know what the intended ends are, it's better to assume the worst until proven otherwise, rather than assuming the best and then facing a brutal surprise. Not that I assume the worst in everyone, but I'm always very careful when there is either a huge power asymmetry, or when I find out I'm being lied to. It's like, "Oh I see. You want me to do your dirty work", and if the answer is, "Yes, but you'll be well compensated, nobody will get hurt who doesn't already deserve it, and here's how it's all gonna go down", then I can work with that and we can negotiate the details, but if the answer is, "Just do it and stop asking questions", then I will start thinking about ways to do the opposite, or just do nothing.

Or as Malcolm Reynolds said, "I aim to misbehave"

 

[humon]

There was a video released today by the Based Camp podcast, which illuminated things a bit more for me. Apparently what I had described in my first post is a very popular trope in women's fantasy romance novels, where the protagonist is pre-destined to mate with some supernatural top Chad and there's nothing either of them can do about it. Based Camp's opinion is that this is a way for women to cope with a culture of promiscuity and serial relationships, and to indulge in bad boy / abuse fantasies without putting any blame onto the protagonist for making bad relationship choices. It also gives the protagonist/reader something of a security guarantee, that the super-powerful killer she's going to mate with will never decide one day to turn around and kill her... because whatever magical bond thingy is in place would prevent that. I suppose it's the female equivalent of a harem fantasy.

Male fantasy: I want to have a harem of different types of beautiful women who can't live without me, and other men either don't exist or I am always strong enough to defeat them.
Female fantasy: I want to belong to the harem of the most powerful man in the universe, but I'm also so important that he can't live without me, and all those other women can go to hell.

So in that context, what I want to do is not so much going to war with the ROB as going to war with the author, and the author's response would probably be, "If you don't like it don't read it", and fair enough. That's always been my response to complaints about porn, obscenity, violent video games, corporate skinsuit movies, and all the rest. But that seems somewhat unsatisfying, because of the lost opportunity when a work of fiction could have been really good but then went down a path where I couldn't follow. I've encountered a lot of stories and games like that, where I want to like it but then some sketchy trope comes up which makes me also hate it at the same time. Or I would enjoy the story if I had a means of pushing back against the trope, but the game doesn't give me any such option. Healslut was a game in that category, where I liked the concept but all of the characters pissed me off (and even when you ditch one character, the game punishes you by replacing him with someone who's even more annoying). I kept playing for a while, hoping to get an option where I could tell everyone off. The best I got was an option late in the story to quit the game and go back to the real world, so I took that option and stopped playing.

It almost reminds me of a deleted scene from Serenity:

> Mal and Inara get a moment alone together. Mal sits down next to her and says, "Why did you have to leave?"
> Inara counters, "Why didn't you ask me to stay?"
> Mal gives a disappointed sigh, stands back up, and walks out of the room.