Make a Contract With Me! [Lag Backup Thread]

[Berserkslash]

NO, fuck no, I just lost the reaction I was writing. Mother of fuck.

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'S why I only copy/paste any really long writing I do.

 

[Vanathor]

How'd you lose it?

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SB's server times out and the page goes to the 404 no connection screen.

 

[Deadly Snark]

How'd you lose it?

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I had it begun on SB and was planning on moving the writing process here, but I just had to make one last adjustement, and then I accidentaly pushed the backspace key and the thing wasn't copied, because I was using copy pasting to do quotes, which made me lose the copy pasted text, bec

'S why I only copy/paste any really long writing I do.

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I did, it's just that I had a really back luck with my new and unfamiliar keyboard.

 

[Deadly Snark]

AND NOW It's FUCKING BACK!!! Are you shitting me, lag is over.

 

[Rihaku]

I had it begun on SB and was planning on moving the writing process here, but I just had to make one last adjustement, and then I accidentaly pushed the backspace key and the thing wasn't copied, because I was using copy pasting to do quotes, which made me lose the copy pasted text, bec
I did, it's just that I had a really back luck with my new and unfamiliar keyboard.

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I think you can use ctrl + z to undo commands, dunno if that works with the text editor you were using. Most forum text editors support it. Or did you hit the 'back' command in your web browser? SB should save text like that inside the editor.

 

[Deadly Snark]

Okay, so lag started real early today.

 

[Thomasfoolery]

Hmm the new option fleshes out the motives and benefits for staying a decent bit and makes me more willing to consider it.

How far into the school year are we currently?

 

[Rihaku]

End of March / Beginning of April ish.

 

[Vindictus]

Okay, so lag started real early today.

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Yeah, pruning the tree doesn't seem to have been too much help.

I think it's time to update or overhaul the forum software. Not sure the kids would agree with me though, so yeah.

 

[Pipeman]

Well, with the new options I'm even less sure which one to pick than I was before.

As far as I see it the main benefits of staying would be more original content from Rihaku, which of course promises to be very interesting, a bit of slice-of-life, which is rather relaxing, contacts in the "real" world (likely including at least some powerful members of society), which would be rather useful if we don't want to bother strictly differentiating between the two worlds, and lastly driving Hitori to value, so to speak, personal responsibility somewhat more than "doing the most good", which is something I'd like to see in the character.

The main benefits of leaving seem to be at least some more contact with the canon cast, whom I all like, a better chance to figure out what the fuck is going on around here, which would be rather welcome, greater immersion in the magical part of the world, which would help with basically all magical endeavors, more and better training, which is always useful, and most likely objectively saving more people, which is really hard to speak out against.

Currently I'm leaning towards staying simply because I don't want to miss out on all the neat stuff Rihaku has probably planned for Tokyo and don't really want to act like we have to keep magic and mundane stuff seperate under any circumstances even though there is often little reason to, but this is a really hard decision to make.

 

[Thomasfoolery]

Hmm so we still have the whole school year to complete, that makes it somewhat less appealing due to both the time we'd need to invest as well as the likely hood we'll end up having to drop out again before graduation anyway. That said I think i'll still change my mind and support the stay in tokyo option, admittedly it's partially for the novelty seeing as rarely ever pick the school option. However hopefully in addition to our primary aims with this we can still make some decent progress in training. Perhaps if Eri uses her contacts she can keep us well supplied with Methamphetamines as well as possibly introduce us to some useful trainers that can help us polish and branch out our mundane skills (can we still actually learn anything in regards to shooting from normal snipers? Hopefully the answer is yes.), even if we can't stuff like lip-reading or instruction in field craft would be helpful as we'd be able to use their institutional knowledge rather than have to learn it all from scratch.

 

[Vindictus]

Is SB lagging, or just me?

 

[TheOtherSandman]

Is SB lagging, or just me?

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Nope, it's dragging its heels for me as well.

While I'm here, let's see if we can get a larger consensus on what to purchase with our XP.

Unless someone has a read on how much we've currently got, let's assume 75k.

While I would like to get Arsenal, we've neglected our Base Stats quite a bit.

With good reason, yes.

But still, it's time we devoted a good chunk of our earnings to the fundamentals.

So I'd like to propose: Perception II (2) / Stability (2) / Range (2)

However, should we have enough, I wouldn't be averse to getting Arsenal (2) in place of Range (2) and change.

 

[Winged One]

Yeah, I'd also like to raise our stats to above 2 across the board, if there's no other pressing concerns. Range and Stability because as I said before having a weapon that's worse than modern standards in any way is embarrassing, and Special/Perception II so we can finally learn what the hell it does.

 

[Rihaku]

Lag's over, go to the main thread!

 

[Rihaku]

Ugh, it came back. That was quick.

 

[Alectai]

Ugh, it came back. That was quick.

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What's our effectiveness count at so far?

 

[Winged One]

On second thought, I'm tempted to get some Arsenal now so that we can entertain additional ideals of violence without risking Industrialized's place on the list. I've got an idea that I think Cavalier and the snipey crowd will really like.

 

[Berserkslash]

I'm putting whatever weight I have behind getting all stats to 2. We have quite a lot of weapon magic and we do stroll need to get our Ultimate, they're very versatile. But still, to truly advance we need to up our base stats.


And hahahahah, my freaking auto correct knows what I'm talking about, every time I tried to type up Base it would replace it with hax.

Anyways, we need our Ultimate eventually and Arsenal would be a huge upgrade to combat capabilities but we need the general boost of physical stats, they are a passive and all around increase to our effectiveness while with going further into weapon magic would just give us even more energy hog skills when we already go through our huge tank pretty quickly, we need to be able to win fights without our skills and have them be backup and hidden trumps. Plus once we get into our Ultimate we'd unlock beyond 5 and it'd be better to be up to that beforehand so we don't have to backtrack.

On second thought, I'm tempted to get some Arsenal now so that we can entertain additional ideals of violence without risking Industrialized's place on the list. I've got an idea that I think Cavalier and the snipey crowd will really like.

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Ignore me, I misread what you said, but that would still put us even further behind in the exp department as we'd need to buy our ultimate to lock out other Ideals affecting it.

 

[Vindictus]

Reposting my argument here to make sure it's posted somewhere-

Hitori is too much of a bleeding heart to kill the yakuzas to get to Tetsu, or let Eri dies, are you seriously implying that he would willingly take control of a fucking criminal organization despite the bullshit they do to society? His fucking parents died to them for god's sake. His dad was murdered by yakuza, and Tetsu's revelation informed him that his mother died under similar circumstances. Hitori should want nothing but utter complete destruction of Tetsu's group.

Organized criminal group are romanticized in fiction, but they're obviously a gathering of scum in society profiting off the exploitation of the less fortunate. From Hitori's perspective, his option is to just deal the final blow to the organization rather than try make use of it. The illegal aspect of underworld is what makes them profitable, and without it they're just a collection of business organization which may not be capable of turning profit without the illegal aspect of the business. If Hitori wants to take over, he's basically saying that he's willing to exploit people for his benefit.

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You're forgetting- In the end, we control the character.

And if Hitori were to consider taking over the Yakuza as a means to do the greatest good? Then yes, I think he would do so. And in the end, it would be far more efficient for him to stabilize and make use of the system rather then let it fall apart into a variety of smaller gangs which he would have to pick off piecemeal.

You're also not getting the culture-specific difference between Yakuza and American mobsters. You'll notice that Tetsu viewed himself as a 'Noble Samurai'? That's not an uncommon position for Yakuza organizations to take.

 

[Vindictus]

Dear god, the lag isn't exactly terrible right now, but why is everyone using the SB thread when we have a perfectly good backup right here?

 

[Winged One]

Dear god, the lag isn't exactly terrible right now, but why is everyone using the SB thread when we have a perfectly good backup right here?

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Because we don't want the people who don't read this thread to miss our arguments when the lag dies down.

 

[Deadly Snark]

I don't even know how much good that'll do, because I can't even load the SB thread right now.

 

[Vindictus]

The other people... Don't matter?

IIRC, a well-reasoned argument is more important, in the long run, then the number of people supporting the argument.

Also, does anyone find Cavalier and Ars's argument that Yakuza would be a worthless resource because they wouldn't be able to stand up to a witch in a fight somewhat... Well, ridiculous? Nobody's suggested a Yakuza vs Witch slugfest. I've suggested that taking the organization over and using it for our own ends would give us a lot of bonuses- Spies, a source of income, the logistical power to maneuver over a wide area relatively discreetly, etc. To discount these benefits because you can't use them directly in a fight against Liches seems like you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[Alectai]

The other people... Don't matter?

IIRC, a well-reasoned argument is more important, in the long run, then the number of people supporting the argument.

Also, does anyone find Cavalier and Ars's argument that Yakuza would be a worthless resource because they wouldn't be able to stand up to a witch in a fight somewhat... Well, ridiculous? Nobody's suggested a Yakuza vs Witch slugfest. I've suggested that taking the organization over and using it for our own ends would give us a lot of bonuses- Spies, a source of income, the logistical power to maneuver over a wide area relatively discreetly, etc. To discount these benefits because you can't use them directly in a fight against Liches seems like you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

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The argument stems from the belief that the only thing that matters is hunting and personal power. And any actions taken which don't support these are a waste of time and attention.

 

[Vindictus]

The argument stems from the belief that the only thing that matters is hunting and personal power. And any actions taken which don't support these are a waste of time and attention.

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Ars has now switched tactics- If we take over the Yakuza, then we condone absolutely every crime under the sun that any organized crime anywhere commits- also side note of 'It's pointless, we can just build a completely new organization from the ground up if we end up wanting to do that stuff!'

Which completely disregards the difficulty of setting up such a group, which can operate illicitly on a wide scale, smuggle strike-teams of Magi across the country, provide an income to entice Wandering Magi, etc. But hey, that's not as important as ILLEGAL THINGS ARE ALWAYS EVIL.

 

[Malcolmo]

I've suggested that taking the organization over and using it for our own ends would give us a lot of bonuses- Spies, a source of income, the logistical power to maneuver over a wide area relatively discreetly, etc. To discount these benefits because you can't use them directly in a fight against Liches seems like you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

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Spying on who though and if anyone could spy it'd be us with our see through buildings scope. As for money what are we going to use it for? We don't need to eat or sleep due to our magic and if for some reason we require an item we could always steal it reasonably quickly via making use of our scope. The maneuver over wide area discretely is useful but quite frankly we could probably make do with our current means.
Put bluntly the Yakuza are rather unlikely to be worth the effort expended in acquiring them.

 

[Winged One]

The other people... Don't matter?

IIRC, a well-reasoned argument is more important, in the long run, then the number of people supporting the argument.

Click to shrink...

I'm hoping to inspire more well-reasoned arguments by exposing my viewpoint to the wider audience.

Also, does anyone find Cavalier and Ars's argument that Yakuza would be a worthless resource because they wouldn't be able to stand up to a witch in a fight somewhat... Well, ridiculous? Nobody's suggested a Yakuza vs Witch slugfest. I've suggested that taking the organization over and using it for our own ends would give us a lot of bonuses- Spies, a source of income, the logistical power to maneuver over a wide area relatively discreetly, etc. To discount these benefits because you can't use them directly in a fight against Liches seems like you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Click to shrink...

I agree that your plan is both possible and desirable, but I think you're underestimating the difficulty of getting the Yakuza to stop with the behavior and practices we don't like, and we should also acknowledge that cutting down on what activities are permitted will reduce their income. I think it could well be worth it, but it'll take time and effort from our other endeavors.

 

[Berserkslash]

The main benefit I see to taking over the Yakuza would be to limit the harm towards innocents and mold them into their actual ideal as a 'Chivalrous Organization' rather than the truth of 'Violence Groups.' Use them to limit violent crimes as a whole, try and limit drug trafficking and keep things much more peaceful.

 

[Vindictus]

Spying on who though and if anyone could spy it'd be us with our see through buildings scope. As for money what are we going to use it for? We don't need to eat or sleep due to our magic and if for some reason we require an item we could always steal it reasonably quickly via making use of our scope. The maneuver over wide area discretely is useful but quite frankly we could probably make do with our current means.
Put bluntly the Yakuza are rather unlikely to be worth the effort expended in acquiring them.

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We can avoid eating and sleeping, yes, but we can't be everywhere at once, and we can't watch everything and everyone at once. Spying is probably the wrong word for it though... An information network? Where we can have people looking for Magi, for places where people just keep randomly commiting suicide [Witch Watch], etc.

And, well, Chibi explains things better then I.

[20:38] <+Vindictus> "We won't be able to use them to fight witches, ergo they are worthless!"
[20:39] <+Vindictus> Disregarding that that's just in a direct matchup between a Witch and regular humans, which is not what I plan on using them for at all, it seems silly to assume that a non-combat resource should be disregarded so easily.
[20:44] <+Chibi-Reaper> Actually, I don't see why 'can't fight witches' is related to potential combat effectiveness.
[20:44] <+Chibi-Reaper> Sure, normal weapons don't always seem to work great, but Homu gets by with guns and bombs and stuff.
[20:45] <+Chibi-Reaper> So either the guns work enough of the time that they're useful /enough/, or there's something done to them to make them functional.
[20:45] <+Chibi-Reaper> If it's the first, then they're set.
[20:46] <+Chibi-Reaper> If it's the second, they're still set. Because I don't think enhancing weapons is something unique: both Mami and Kyouko are seen with clearly 'magic-ized' things.
[20:47] <+Chibi-Reaper> Better still, while Kyouko keeps to a set of binoculars, Mami magics up a baseball bat into something that looks like it came out of Barbie Baby's First Kneecapper princess set, and then gives it to someone else to use. Sayaka takes a wish later, but at that point she's pure normal.
[20:47] <+Redon> um, I seem to remember a bit about normal humans not being able to see witches?
[20:49] <+Redon> ones without the ability to become magical girls
[20:49] <+Chibi-Reaper> So there's precedent for arming normal people with magic weapons in canon. And if Homu is also juicing up her guns, then there's precedent for both enchanting guns /and/ the third-times-the-charm thing with Weapon++ stuff means probably anyone can do it.....
[20:49] <+Chibi-Reaper> ..... Hm. I don't actually recall that.
[20:50] <+Redon> it was an offhand reference, let me see if I can find it, I think it was mentioned somewhere along the Hitomi gets witch kissed part...
[20:50] <+Chibi-Reaper> .... Well, if it's true, then that does make things more complex.
[20:52] <+Chibi-Reaper> But in the end, not being able to see the target doesn't stop you from shooting at it, or getting radio'd orders for x-group to advance forward to a given spot and then lay suppressing fire in y-direction or anything. Spray'n'pray isn't the best possible plan, though, particularly when the target is invisible.
[20:54] <+Redon> wiki states the whole... can't be seen thing... but doesn't mention where
[20:55] <+Chibi-Reaper> Hm. I /vaguely/ recall stuff in Oriko where entire classes and their teachers were seeing (and being eaten by) familiars, but I couldn't guarantee it.
[20:56] <+Redon> I thought they saw the inside of the barrier
[20:56] <+Redon> which was just as freaky
[20:56] <+Redon> then again
[20:56] <+Redon> consistancy... who needs it
[20:58] <+Chibi-Reaper> It could well be Magic with ha ha, /explanations/. Where some witches can be seen and some can't, varying depending on how much they care about getting noticed.
[20:58] <+Redon> can't really explain how the familiars, with their slow asses and obvious freakishness
[20:58] <+Redon> would go through a city and find 10 humans
[20:59] <+Redon> without them running the fuck away and telling... everybody
[21:01] <+Redon> well
[21:01] <+Redon> oriko definately has them seeing it
[21:01] <+Redon> could be an inside the barrier type deal?
[21:02] <+Redon> then again
[21:02] <+Chibi-Reaper> Maybe. Actually, probably.
[21:02] <+Redon> it was really a pseudo witch barrier, wasn't it
[21:03] <+Chibi-Reaper> It makes some sense for the familiars that leave a barrier to hunt and become witches to want to hide themselves and be concealed from their prey, at least on an instinctive level.
[21:03] <+Redon> Kyubey is invisible as well
[21:04] <+Redon> to the normals, so it's obviously a "magic" answer
[21:04] <+Chibi-Reaper> While the witches and familiars still inside the barrier are more 'get into my belly said the spider to-', since anyone who walks into the web is got problems.
[21:04] <+Chibi-Reaper> Hm. Yeah. It's_Magic.
[21:06] <+Redon> most barriers have a "you ain't leaving unless I let you" side effect as well, don't they.
[21:07] <+Chibi-Reaper> Pretty much, from what I recall. Though.... I'm not /sure/ if the first one didn't bring them in a bit and then, whoops, Magical Girl means it's time to jet I'll eat you another time.
[21:07] <+Chibi-Reaper> Been a fair while since I watched the anime.
[21:08] <+Redon> I thought it retreated because "ow you are hurting me"
[21:08] <+Redon> then again, magical girls probably don't have to follow the rules
[21:08] <+Redon> since they can magic their way out
[21:08] <+Redon> gotta love that answer
[21:08] <+Chibi-Reaper> Might be part of it. Also, the whole Sayakawitch thing, they definitely left with her empty shell before going back in. But then I think Homu grenaded her too.
[21:09] <+Chibi-Reaper> And Magical Girls. Yes.
[21:10] <+Chibi-Reaper> Especially since the whole system of magic is basically breaking natural laws in order to extend universal lifespan or some other thick truckload of space plushie bullcrap that might or might not be true.
[21:10] <+Redon> Even if it's not true, it could just be as true as the magic space aliens believe it to be, not that it matters since nobody could really prove it anyway.
[21:11] <+Chibi-Reaper> So it's not unreasonable that while magic has it's own set of rules, it doesn't always obey those either, much like an unruly teenager that slips out to complaina bout the establishment by painting their nails and dying their hair and getting piercings because /fuck you/ thermodynamics-dad.
[21:11] <+Redon> and everybody without magic gets shafted
[21:12] <+Redon> because, why should we care about what you want, you can't do anything anyway
[21:12] <+Chibi-Reaper> I'll defy the laws of entropy if I /want/ to, and I won't get to bed at your authoritarian ten oclock curfew either!
[21:12] <@Biigoh> Or it could be that the energy reaction from transforming from Magic Girl to Witch produces massive amunts of energy that is stored in the grief seed?
[21:13] <+Redon> I'm not exactly following you Bii, what does that have to do with humans vs magical girls and seeing them?
[21:13] <+Redon> *seeing witches
[21:14] <+Chibi-Reaper> And then the sulking witch goes out and protests with artistic expression of spraypainty shitty art all over the side of an alley wall, except the paint is people and the art is them getting eaten.
[21:14] <@Biigoh> about kyubey and defying entrophy?
[21:15] <+Chibi-Reaper> I might be losing exactly what I'm trying to work this metaphor around to, here.

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... Does this count as a new-player-by-proxy? Not sure.