Only Human (Goddess of Victory NIKKE SI)

[ReignHopeless]

Honestly i can see how this could easily lead to bad ending. Sure joe needed a wake up call as soft approach seem to not work on him but joe no matter what is just a normal person and there is simply a chance for him as a human to reject his own ugliness and simply spiral downwards deeper into denial.

 

[Valthorix]

Lmao "I almost don't see the man I fell in love with in you anymore." women the second after you tell her how you actually fell.

Click to shrink...

Yeah like, it worked here because Joe is a massive nikke simp but if he was in an even worse head space, that line could have backfired catastrophically.

 

[FioraVorela]

Yeah I'm going to have to agree with the above somewhat with this one. Joe has less of an excuse seeing is he has video game Amnesia and not actual Amnesia but in cases of actual Amnesia you don't know what you don't know. Expecting you to know things you're supposed of learned and just picked up on as a small child and are now a complete zero again is kind of b*******. I semi understand Cinderella's point of view and I understand Joe's point of view that something is wrong, but you can't know what's wrong if you don't have half the f****** equation. Apologies for the harsh reaction but as someone with actual amnesia I've just been in Joe's position with everyone expecting me to know a million things, and I had no basis for any of what they're expecting me to know. It's somewhat worse with him because he's a military commander with zero training and zero actual knowledge expecting to know s*** most of the time and he's just barely recovering old memories. And to see him accept his faults is understandable he's now having the other half of the equation finally shown to him at the same time just to be accepting of the critique of someone who has no idea what's going on through his head is enraging. It's like watching other people tell a new guy to lead a crew, build, safety check, and furnish entire house just because someone else said he knew how to. You are not the same person you were before having amnesia in most cases, because even if you are one the lucky few to get actual memory back you are "watching" from an outsiders point of view.

Everyone is as fault for this clusterfuck(yes even Joe) but to have Cinderella just walk into this house of trauma (Joe and the nikkes) barge through the front door and go how dare you not be exactly like I expected you and just man the f****** this is ALL somehow your fault and for Joe to just accept it is, has made Cinderella probably my least favorite character in this entire thing and probably will remain so unless someone else takes her to task for the b******* she just threw at Joe.

 

[SuperPulp2789]

Lmao "I almost don't see the man I fell in love with in you anymore." women the second after you tell her how you actually fell.

Click to shrink...

There's no "bad boys" for the girls here to go for

They're already too used to most Commanders(though there are female ones)being asswipes and most won't admit to finding em attractive

So Joe is all they got

And he's a good catch

 

[FioraVorela]

There's no "bad boys" for the girls here to go for

They're already too used to most Commanders(though there are female ones)being asswipes and most won't admit to finding em attractive

So Joe is all they got

And he's a good catch

Click to shrink...

Hopefully with the ark of Joe's mental deterioration coming to an end(for Joe's sake I hope this is not just an upswing) his personality will start coming back and he'll be less of a wet towel. I understand how we got here with his mental state but I do miss the early Joe that wasn't two steps away from putting a bullet in his mouth.

 

[SuperPulp2789]

Hopefully with the ark of Joe's mental deterioration coming to an end(for Joe's sake I hope this is not just an upswing) his personality will start coming back and he'll be less of a wet towel. I understand how we got here with his mental state but I do miss the early Joe that wasn't two steps away from putting a bullet in his mouth.

Click to shrink...

Angst gets annoying and a time waster

I dislike Pulp Heroes for being a little too the same and almost unflappable, but I like that they get into the action

Hopefully here, Chatterbox gets jumped, preferably focus on destroying him first before reaching Marian

 

[TheScottishlad]

tl:dr if you don't want to read: Good chapter, controversial but necessary angst, hope Joe develops and Ellie faces some backlash, but I look forward to what's next.

I say initially that I'm not going to jump on a bandwagon and solely call out Cinderella for what she said and claim Joe was intrinsically in the right for his prior actions. Both have their right to stand in the position they do, Cinderella viewing the modern Joe as an disappointment to the one she knew in the past. This contrasted to Joe who as a result of all the shit he's had to fight, learn, realise and experience in arguably a short amount of time, has resulted in him being a shut away or secluded.

Both are justified in their initial perspectives; Cinderella knew Joe his best, knows he can be altruistic and welcoming, even in the face of adversity, so why is it now he cannot be such? All whilst Joe is justified in shutting himself away and projecting an impulsive defense at pushing people away because naturally to him, it's likely the easiest way he can deal with the lingering information overload and stressful experiences he's been dealt with and recalled. These reactions are generally natural and I have no problem with such.

I think the problem so far as the narrative has been established, is that Joe is seemingly to blame for shutting himself away despite the frankly understandable reason for doing so, and so Cinderellas approach to such is off putting to a degree. I'm not disagreeing with Cinderella nor am I saying she's intrinsically wrong, she just doesn't see the bigger picture (again, Joe's fault if he showed some initiative and input for team care). That's not her fault, and she likely has had to deal with suffering herself; so a portion of tough love is expected. At the very least she seems devoted to that version of Joe, so much so she'll wait for him to return, which is better than any other alternative.

As it stands, I feel as if there's something off putting though to express a degree of anger to a man who is likely still attempting to comprehend two versions of the world he's found himself in; the past with which he is likely reliving and fully experiencing in traumatic flashbacks, of which establish the fact he failed as we've seen him consider a few times. All whilst he experiences the present/future world where he has to live through that perceived failure, witnessing the harsh realities of the current world as he climbs hurdle after hurdle, including Marian's death, the seemingly impossible war against the Rapture's, Dorothy's grip on Eden and so forth. Frankly, I'd hope Cinderella maybe gets held accountable for such harsh words, but likely she won't, Joe needs to face reality, and whilst I dislike the approach, I can admit it seems effective.

 

[legiodamnatus]

Everyone is as fault for this clusterfuck(yes even Joe) but to have Cinderella just walk into this house of trauma (Joe and the nikkes) barge through the front door and go how dare you not be exactly like I expected you and just man the f****** this is ALL somehow your fault and for Joe to just accept it is, has made Cinderella probably my least favorite character in this entire thing and probably will remain so unless someone else takes her to task for the b******* she just threw at Joe.

Click to shrink...

Except that's not what she said? She turned the questions around on Joe and put a mirror (heh) up to his opinion. Does Anis really hate you or are you projecting your selfhatred on her? Is Rapi really torturing you or is she trying to reach you? Why did you not seek help if you knew you were floundering?

All of these are good questions, the answers to which highlight how far gone he is. And make no mistake, Joe was pretty far gone.

 

[FioraVorela]

Except that's not what she said? She turned the questions around on Joe and put a mirror (heh) up to his opinion. Does Anis really hate you or are you projecting your selfhatred on her? Is Rapi really torturing you or is she trying to reach you? Why did you not seek help if you knew you were floundering?

All of these are good questions, the answers to which highlight how far gone he is. And make no mistake, Joe was pretty far gone.

Click to shrink...

Yes and if that was all Joe was said to talk about her reaction would be more understandable though treated with all the nuance of a hammer. Joe filled her in on supposedly "everything" though and with that her reaction is honestly detestable. If there was a buildup of her reactions throughout the entire story maybe her just adding comments to show any emotion that weren't just silent judging then the final burst at the end wouldn't be, you've gone through some stuff and your pathetic for crumbling. Joe is not in the right for how he is starting to perceive anis, his relation with rapi complicate tho starting to sort it self out (so I'm having a hard time seeing the problem that isn't just Joe mentally falling apart). Unless we get Cinderella's perspective that maybe can excuse her actions her reaction is strange to put it bluntly because if she had "all" the events of all the things that's happened (unless everything she has said about her emotions for joe are a farce) her reaction should be far more sympathetic then just pull yourself by your bootstraps. I'm hoping it's just a case of unreliable narratorship and Joe was hiding quite a bit because otherwise Cinderella is probably one of the least empathetic people shown in the story with only Suyen beating her.

 

[UsurperOfTruth]

I think there's some sort of reading comprehension failure going on here for a few of y'all, because this was an absolutely necessary dressing down done by one of the people that knows Joe the best and was able to cut straight to the point of the matter.

Joe's been an ass to the people around him that care enough to try and help him, and even worse he's hurting those people in the process of his own misery.

Could it be seen as mean or harsh with how Cinderella said everything so bluntly? Sure, but this brutal honesty is needed. Joe has been wallowing for a long time now, trapped in a sort of self-defeating cycle where he's just keeping himself miserable by refusing any perceived help aimed his way even if he desperately needs it. He was taking things like Anis' pessimism in the worst possible light for example, seeing it as personal attacks upon himself and his problems while essentially shutting his mouth and not trying to communicate how it was affecting him. He bottled in all of his problems and was just letting them pile up while feeling worse and worse without trying to reach out for help and, in fact, actively refusing to let people in which lead to him feeling more isolated in his issues. Like, seriously, reread what Cinderella is saying to Joe.

She is putting a metaphorical mirror up to him and forcing him to actually look at his situation and the things that have happened to him without the constant dark cloud that's been lingering over his head. Was Anis purposely hurting him? Was Rapi being purposely cruel to him back then? Or was he so caught up in own stress and problems that he assumed as such and let himself be even more miserable about it? Cinderella wants him to be better, knows he can be better, and she is pushing him to be the person that she knows that he can be by not allowing Joe to keep sitting there in his own head. While yes sometimes a soft touch can be nice, when you're in such a wicked mental state having someone be objective and to the point with you without coddling you can be infinitely more useful and needed.

She's not saying that he's pathetic for his problems and what he's felt up till now, she even acknowledges that Joe's been in a bad place for a while now matter of fact. However, Cinderella is also saying that Joe can be better and that this hateful, or at least spiteful and miserable, person isn't who he is and that it hurts to see the person she loves a literal shell of himself. Yes, Joe's been through a lot, but she knows that he can get through it and this issues and what he's been through do not justify how he's been to those around him and how he's been to himself.

Cinderella wants him to be better, and if her putting a boot to his ass to get him in gear is what gets Joe to be the person she knows he can be than so be it.

If you think it's tough love, well it is, but this is in no way her acting unempathetic. Cinderella cares a lot about him, and I can't see how that doesn't get across.

Anyways, the chapter was really good Baka, this was a step in the right direction for Joe to heal and while it'll likely be slow he's got people in his corner and someone unwilling to let him misery spiral so he'll get there I think.

 

[BakaSmurf]

Joe not only received exactly what he deserved from Cinderella, but he got off light considering the retelling of Joe's perspective failed to actually convey just how much of a pathetic little simpering worm cloying for the barest scrap of positive attention she can receive Rapi has become because of him.

Joe has been constantly offered companionship and understanding. Rapi has repeatedly attempted to stand up to the plate, only to have her attempts redirected back at her so that the man could avoid acknowledging his demons, even as he actively pushed her away and held her at arm's length. Actions which consistently made her feel like more of a useless parasite incapable of helping others than she already did.

Joe is not some little sad teenager that hasn't fully matured and doesn't know his place in the world yet. He's a grown ass man that has a history of being far and away better than he has been. He is a fully matured adult that has been isolating himself from anyone and everyone that could offer him a mote of support, engaging in increasingly anti-social behaviour while demonizing the people he claims to love and adore.

Demanding that he fulfill the bare goddamned minimum expected of a man of his age rather than behaving like a moody teenager isn't unreasonable. He's been behaving like a spoiled child holding his breath instead of putting in anything resembling a fraction of effort to make his situation better, and even actively preventing those around him from trying to offer him a hand.

It has gotten to the point where he doesn't deserve the soft touch. He's rejected the soft touch at every possible opportunity so he could curl up in a hole in the ground and bemoan the cruelty of the world and feel sorry for himself. Joe has been acting like a pathetic little shit, and a harsh dressing down from a woman that knows he can do better, and did do better, under the infinitely more stressful circumstances of an active world war of extinction, whereupon he very literally had every eye in the world fixed squarely on him with the expectations of saving all of mankind, no less, is the bare minimum of harshness he deserved.

He's lucky that Cinderella wasn't fully aware of just how badly Joe's fucked up Rapi when that conversation happened. And he's really lucky that Andersen wasn't there to hear about all of this either. If Andersen had been there, Joe would've promptly gotten his ass rightfully beaten black and blue for treating the girls that should be able to place all of their trust in him the way he has.

Being sad is no excuse for the sort of behaviour Joe has been displaying. Cinderella's holding Joe up to a standard that he himself previously set under far more demanding circumstances is no indictment against her. It's nothing but a mark of how much she cares for this man who she will not allow to doom spiral for the sake of looking good and giving him an undeserved pat on the ass over rocking the boat.

The world doesn't give a shit that he's sad. People will die if he doesn't man up and get his shit together. Ingrid was correct in chapter 11, and she's still correct here. Joe has problems. He needs to work through his problems. He needs to let people in, which only started to happen when Cinderella forced him to acknowledge what he'd become. This is not a matter that can be allowed to stew and simmer for the sake of not being mean.

The fact that Cinderella continues to love him, clings onto hope that he can get better, and immediately put in the work to start making him better after a literal century apart is nothing short of a fairy tale-esque display of her boundless loyalty that is the stuff legends are made of. When faced with someone that is better than you deserve reaching out to lift you up, you don't cry and complain about how unfair these expectations placed upon you are and that you should be accepted as being perfect just the way you are. You nut the fuck up and become worthy of their love.

Simple as.

 

[VATSTeen]

Cinderella best girl. Rapi can never.

 

[FioraVorela]

Apologies it seems I've been focusing too much on the Amnesia that he's been suffering through that still doesn't seem to have been resolved, and that he truly just has a video game Amnesia unlike what was mostly portrayed in the beginning of the story.

Though I will argue that rapi and private (for the 3-5 scenes shes been in) are only people in this story that have made more than a moment of effort, the other characters have been mostly non-existent in the presence of Joe other just being mentioned for quite a few chapters, till the last 4-5 at least.

Overall I do genuinely like your writing but this last chapter is just not treated with the same in-depthness and nuance of mental degradation than most of the others have been. And apparently perceiving the story through an entirely different lens than your intention through most of it, apologies.

 

[Earl Silver]

Simple as.

Click to shrink...

Fucking finally, some good god-damn food. And so hell cursedly true as well.

 

[Dsaeg]

It's interesting how protective they are of each other without aby exceptions. On the one hand that's very cute. On the other potential for alienation of each other is so fucking strong that it can be observed from the orbit.

Funny how my brain ignored all that angst and I didn't even registered what's wrong at all until I read comments and comprehended it intellectually. Drugs are fun, especially prescribed.

 

[VATSTeen]

Joe not only received exactly what he deserved from Cinderella, but he got off light considering the retelling of Joe's perspective failed to actually convey just how much of a pathetic little simpering worm cloying for the barest scrap of positive attention she can receive Rapi has become because of him.

Joe has been constantly offered companionship and understanding. Rapi has repeatedly attempted to stand up to the plate, only to have her attempts redirected back at her so that the man could avoid acknowledging his demons, even as he actively pushed her away and held her at arm's length. Actions which consistently made her feel like more of a useless parasite incapable of helping others than she already did.

Joe is not some little sad teenager that hasn't fully matured and doesn't know his place in the world yet. He's a grown ass man that has a history of being far and away better than he has been. He is a fully matured adult that has been isolating himself from anyone and everyone that could offer him a mote of support, engaging in increasingly anti-social behaviour while demonizing the people he claims to love and adore.

Demanding that he fulfill the bare goddamned minimum expected of a man of his age rather than behaving like a moody teenager isn't unreasonable. He's been behaving like a spoiled child holding his breath instead of putting in anything resembling a fraction of effort to make his situation better, and even actively preventing those around him from trying to offer him a hand.

It has gotten to the point where he doesn't deserve the soft touch. He's rejected the soft touch at every possible opportunity so he could curl up in a hole in the ground and bemoan the cruelty of the world and feel sorry for himself. Joe has been acting like a pathetic little shit, and a harsh dressing down from a woman that knows he can do better, and did do better, under the infinitely more stressful circumstances of an active world war of extinction, whereupon he very literally had every eye in the world fixed squarely on him with the expectations of saving all of mankind, no less, is the bare minimum of harshness he deserved.

He's lucky that Cinderella wasn't fully aware of just how badly Joe's fucked up Rapi when that conversation happened. And he's really lucky that Andersen wasn't there to hear about all of this either. If Andersen had been there, Joe would've promptly gotten his ass rightfully beaten black and blue for treating the girls that should be able to place all of their trust in him the way he has.

Being sad is no excuse for the sort of behaviour Joe has been displaying. Cinderella's holding Joe up to a standard that he himself previously set under far more demanding circumstances is no indictment against her. It's nothing but a mark of how much she cares for this man who she will not allow to doom spiral for the sake of looking good and giving him an undeserved pat on the ass over rocking the boat.

The world doesn't give a shit that he's sad. People will die if he doesn't man up and get his shit together. Ingrid was correct in chapter 11, and she's still correct here. Joe has problems. He needs to work through his problems. He needs to let people in, which only started to happen when Cinderella forced him to acknowledge what he'd become. This is not a matter that can be allowed to stew and simmer for the sake of not being mean.

The fact that Cinderella continues to love him, clings onto hope that he can get better, and immediately put in the work to start making him better after a literal century apart is nothing short of a fairy tale-esque display of her boundless loyalty that is the stuff legends are made of. When faced with someone that is better than you deserve reaching out to lift you up, you don't cry and complain about how unfair these expectations placed upon you are and that you should be accepted as being perfect just the way you are. You nut the fuck up and become worthy of their love.

Simple as.

Click to shrink...

Hey mind if I take some of the arguments here to post on SB? I am sick of their Cinderella slander thinking Joe needs a damn hug box.

Now I agree a softer approach could have been reached but we have been in this depression spiral with Joe for awhile now and I kinda agree with you on what was said.

It's just I dont enjoy my girl Cinderella getting slandered as if she was a snake.

 

[Matttts]

Honestly I thought Joe would have started to get his shit together by now after his conversation with Ingrid way back. Haven't been keeping up with this story too much and just recently checked back in. His situation is sort of a Shinji one I suppose, but Shinji at least had the defense of being an actual emotionally unstable teenager. Nothing really too terrible was said Cinderella just told him to get his shit together. His job is too important for him to keep acting in a downward spiral.

 

[Jsebas19]

Hey mind if I take some of the arguments here to post on SB? I am sick of their Cinderella slander thinking Joe needs a damn hug box.

Now I agree a softer approach could have been reached but we have been in this depression spiral with Joe for awhile now and I kinda agree with you on what was said.

It's just I dont enjoy my girl Cinderella getting slandered as if she was a snake.

Click to shrink...

The thing is, those people defending Joe seem like the same kind of people who want Joe to be like the game's MC.

What Joe did was show his weaknesses, the pressure, tension, mental issues, and more from everything that's happening in the Nikke world, from Marian to the Harmony Cube mission and how his problems are harming the girls.

Joe isn't like the game's MC, who literally lives through horrors and remains cool as a cucumber in an illogical and incoherent way. Because seriously, it almost seems unreal for the MC to stay cool with everything he's been through, as if nothing bad is happening to him, not to mention the way he treats Nikke women in an idealized way, like "there are no bad Nikkes."

Back on the Cinderella topic, what she did was simply bring some sense into him. If you, Bakasmurf, or anyone here suffers from PTSD, surely someone would also tell you the same thing Cinderella told Joe to help him.

 

[Jsebas19]

Joe not only received exactly what he deserved from Cinderella, but he got off light considering the retelling of Joe's perspective failed to actually convey just how much of a pathetic little simpering worm cloying for the barest scrap of positive attention she can receive Rapi has become because of him.

Joe has been constantly offered companionship and understanding. Rapi has repeatedly attempted to stand up to the plate, only to have her attempts redirected back at her so that the man could avoid acknowledging his demons, even as he actively pushed her away and held her at arm's length. Actions which consistently made her feel like more of a useless parasite incapable of helping others than she already did.

Joe is not some little sad teenager that hasn't fully matured and doesn't know his place in the world yet. He's a grown ass man that has a history of being far and away better than he has been. He is a fully matured adult that has been isolating himself from anyone and everyone that could offer him a mote of support, engaging in increasingly anti-social behaviour while demonizing the people he claims to love and adore.

Demanding that he fulfill the bare goddamned minimum expected of a man of his age rather than behaving like a moody teenager isn't unreasonable. He's been behaving like a spoiled child holding his breath instead of putting in anything resembling a fraction of effort to make his situation better, and even actively preventing those around him from trying to offer him a hand.

It has gotten to the point where he doesn't deserve the soft touch. He's rejected the soft touch at every possible opportunity so he could curl up in a hole in the ground and bemoan the cruelty of the world and feel sorry for himself. Joe has been acting like a pathetic little shit, and a harsh dressing down from a woman that knows he can do better, and did do better, under the infinitely more stressful circumstances of an active world war of extinction, whereupon he very literally had every eye in the world fixed squarely on him with the expectations of saving all of mankind, no less, is the bare minimum of harshness he deserved.

He's lucky that Cinderella wasn't fully aware of just how badly Joe's fucked up Rapi when that conversation happened. And he's really lucky that Andersen wasn't there to hear about all of this either. If Andersen had been there, Joe would've promptly gotten his ass rightfully beaten black and blue for treating the girls that should be able to place all of their trust in him the way he has.

Being sad is no excuse for the sort of behaviour Joe has been displaying. Cinderella's holding Joe up to a standard that he himself previously set under far more demanding circumstances is no indictment against her. It's nothing but a mark of how much she cares for this man who she will not allow to doom spiral for the sake of looking good and giving him an undeserved pat on the ass over rocking the boat.

The world doesn't give a shit that he's sad. People will die if he doesn't man up and get his shit together. Ingrid was correct in chapter 11, and she's still correct here. Joe has problems. He needs to work through his problems. He needs to let people in, which only started to happen when Cinderella forced him to acknowledge what he'd become. This is not a matter that can be allowed to stew and simmer for the sake of not being mean.

The fact that Cinderella continues to love him, clings onto hope that he can get better, and immediately put in the work to start making him better after a literal century apart is nothing short of a fairy tale-esque display of her boundless loyalty that is the stuff legends are made of. When faced with someone that is better than you deserve reaching out to lift you up, you don't cry and complain about how unfair these expectations placed upon you are and that you should be accepted as being perfect just the way you are. You nut the fuck up and become worthy of their love.

Simple as.

Click to shrink...

Not to mention that Joe is just human, with his difficulties, problems, stress, and everything that comes with being the legendary commander, both before and now.
He's not the womanizing, idiotic commander from the game who walks around cool as a cucumber, acting as if nothing's happening. Unrealistically, that's what he's doing.

I'm sure those complaining about these Joe moments must be fans of Musan Pro and Nikke who want Joe to be like the game's MC.

And like you said, the way Cinderella clings to Joe despite what he's become is the perfect example of a fairy tale. Honestly, this Cinderella represents fairy tales better than the Cinderella in the game...

 

[Dsaeg]

The thing is, those people defending Joe seem like the same kind of people who want Joe to be like the game's MC.

What Joe did was show his weaknesses, the pressure, tension, mental issues, and more from everything that's happening in the Nikke world, from Marian to the Harmony Cube mission and how his problems are harming the girls.

Joe isn't like the game's MC, who literally lives through horrors and remains cool as a cucumber in an illogical and incoherent way. Because seriously, it almost seems unreal for the MC to stay cool with everything he's been through, as if nothing bad is happening to him, not to mention the way he treats Nikke women in an idealized way, like "there are no bad Nikkes."

Back on the Cinderella topic, what she did was simply bring some sense into him. If you, Bakasmurf, or anyone here suffers from PTSD, surely someone would also tell you the same thing Cinderella told Joe to help him.

Click to shrink...

Jesus in Cummander is indeed strong. Bakasmurf framed the most elaborate and amusing trope for game MC.

 

[FioraVorela]

hat Joe did was show his weaknesses, the pressure, tension, mental issues, and more from everything that's happening in the Nikke world, from Marian to the Harmony Cube mission and how his problems are harming the girls.

Joe isn't like the game's MC, who literally lives through horrors and remains cool as a cucumber in an illogical and incoherent way. Because seriously, it almost seems unreal for the MC to stay cool with everything he's been through, as if nothing bad is happening to him, not to mention the way he treats Nikke women in an idealized way, like "there are no bad Nikkes."

Back on the Cinderella topic, what she did was simply bring some sense into him. If you, Bakasmurf, or anyone here suffers from PTSD, surely someone would also tell you the same thing Cinderella told Joe to help him

Click to shrink...

I've never played the game nor seen much of it, this story is my only "interaction" with nikke, so all I have to work off is what is shown in story.

Joe living through all this horrors and his reactions is the reason for my own reaction to Cinderella's semi decent advise but blatantly cruel reaction.

No it is a common Trope in storys that does not work 7 times out of 10 in real life in "calm" environments (like the one we have in this chapter) in most situations you just end up with a dead friend in a week because they put a bullet in themselves if they're PTSD is from a military capacity or a noose for more civilian-induced, the remain 2 lead to deep resentment with one being miraculous. The actual percentages are even worse. The times/moments where such talk generally works is either with people who are not mentally near the endpoint, (Joe showing multiple signs of being near the endpoint with several cases of mental disorders building to it) intentionally seeking such advice or for people who are are in high stress situations such as combat or in the field where the brain starts working in a vastly foreign matter as a defense mechanism (see problem fix problem end of story).

 

[Threndor]

Joe definitely needed that wakeup call, no matter how mean or harsh it seemed.
With how overwhelmed he is by everything he went straight into the mindset our society tries to push so hard in the last decades.
"Men must be strong. They can't show emotion. They can't show weakness." And so on.
He started bottling everything up inside, refused to accept the help offered and began to see everyone as the enemy. Extremely unhealthy.

Cinderella loves Joe to the point that seeing him do this to himself and others, hurts her so much that she can't see that person in front of her as Joe, who she knows is capable of being so much better under arguably worse conditions.

It's why she's the best person to give him this wakeup call.

Yes he has amnesia, and yes that sucks massively, but the problems stemming from there have the best chance of getting solved if he has a proper support network. Which he denies himself, and others in turn.

Cinderella isn't an idiot. She likely knows just how much it could backfire on her to do things this way, that she could be risking her relationship with Joe in its entirety. Yet it has to be done. The soft approach is not working, and no one else is as well suited to deal with this the harsh way. She loves him so much, that she's willing to risk losing him forever, just for the chance to get him into a better mindset. To get him to accept that there are people who care for him, that he has a support network, if only he would stop seeing them as the enemy, and accept their help.

Only then can he actually start to heal from what is going on with him.

 

[WeaponsGradeIdiocy]

Ah. Well, that made him feel like even more of a piece of shit, if that was the first request she made of him despite the bitch baby tantrum he'd thrown earlier.

Click to shrink...

Am I forgetting something or did he definitely not throw any kind of tantrum, much less a "bitch baby" one? All I remember is him stomping away after distinctly not freaking out.

 

[BakaSmurf]

Am I forgetting something or did he definitely not throw any kind of tantrum, much less a "bitch baby" one? All I remember is him stomping away after distinctly not freaking out.

Click to shrink...

He internally worked himself up about how Rapi and Anis were both abusing him over the course of the story, when they did no such thing. That is what he was referring to, the fact that he was ultimately making excuses to (metaphorically) cry about how hard he has it and how he's all alone without real friends.

He may not of thrown a tantrum in the sense of throwing things around, kicking wailing, and screaming, but he was effectively doing so in his own mind, and was using harsh language on himself as a form of quiet penance.

 

[Jsebas19]

I've never played the game nor seen much of it, this story is my only "interaction" with nikke, so all I have to work off is what is shown in story.

Joe living through all this horrors and his reactions is the reason for my own reaction to Cinderella's semi decent advise but blatantly cruel reaction.

No it is a common Trope in storys that does not work 7 times out of 10 in real life in "calm" environments (like the one we have in this chapter) in most situations you just end up with a dead friend in a week because they put a bullet in themselves if they're PTSD is from a military capacity or a noose for more civilian-induced, the remain 2 lead to deep resentment with one being miraculous. The actual percentages are even worse. The times/moments where such talk generally works is either with people who are not mentally near the endpoint, (Joe showing multiple signs of being near the endpoint with several cases of mental disorders building to it) intentionally seeking such advice or for people who are are in high stress situations such as combat or in the field where the brain starts working in a vastly foreign matter as a defense mechanism (see problem fix problem end of story).

Click to shrink...

The fact that you said you literally know nothing about Nikke and have never played the game just makes you look bad and your argument is invalid...

 

[Gato]

So, I spent some time letting the latest chapter sit in my head. Thought about it on and off. Did I see Joe's breakdown coming? Not really. Sure, there were signs of him being not well mentally but I don't think we really understood the gravitas behind the girls hyping him up and their devotion to him. I had considered it to be merely a product of both their time and the gacha setting. I was wrong. As were, or maybe still are, some of you in the comments. And that's okay. I, too, was lost in the sauce.

The commander really was and is one hell of a man. Got pulled out of his severe meltdown and accepted help. That takes an amount of character strength we just hadn't associated with him yet. Why? I can't say for certain I'm afraid, sorry. An example for those who don't believe me.

Self destructive behavior is hard to notice and harder still to change. Think of an intervention for addiction or intensive therapy for the severely depressed. That's the amount of effort required for people to simply consider changing their ways. Unfortunately, it's really only the girls who knew him at their best who could really pull him out of it. Cause they were the only ones who knew how far he had fallen from grace. Because even his not-quite-worst-but-still-pretty-bad state of mind was by miles better than the Nikkes were used to.

I believe they considered him the legendary commander because when the world was essentially fucked already he managed to dig out just a little more good each time. A few things I could remember from the story so far: Slayed a tyrant by himself when he was probably alone behind enemy lines or the last survivor, when England had fallen to the Raptures he managed to reconquer London and hand it to a child they called Queen, when humanity pushed the elevator and was found wanting he was there to pick up the pieces; when had a choice between his own survival or the loyalty to his girls and mankind he paid the ultimate price!

They looked to him because he reminded them of the virtues and values the Raptures had taken from them. Because when everyone else fell he was the first to rise. Because when they could rise no longer he died for their future. He is the goat and I will not stand for this slander any longer! My boy is healing!

...we are not beating the harem allegations anymore, though. That shit is set in stone, let me tell ya. Imagine when they meet Dorothy and she laments and begs for his forgiveness, for mercy with tears spilling down her face and he hits her with the "You're as beautiful as the day I lost you". Done. Married that afternoon with 3 children and a dog.

Personally, I think a chapter from Andersons POV would really help to put some doubts to rest and really cement Joe's character change. Would be nice to see that old dog feel like a puppy again and have him meet with girl again for sure!

Again. Great story. Really used the setting and made it better. Yeah, pretty good, I'd say. I'll take another 29 chapters and 3 OVAs to go and throw in a beach episode to make it a meal, please.

 

[Xaldreca]

I'm glad this finally happened.

There's no real satisfaction in this for me, but I do feel relief.

Hopefully he can actually make progress as a person now, rather than wallowing in his victim complex and drowning himself in work as he ignores everyone's issues, including his own.

 

[Jsebas19]

In SB the user Teslashark says:

"Joe has ironically less interpersonal experience than Cinderella now after the time gap and the depression.

About Old Tales: OH timeline Cinderella/Ellie and canon timeline Cinderella have different pasts, so don't expect her team to have the same role here."

which is somewhat illogical beacuse the cinderella OH and Cinderella of Headcanon game They're the same, except that the OH Cinderella was only saved by Joe.

Also, the OH Cinderella team is the same as the one in the game. Except that Abe didn't become Grave and the rest of the Old Tales work in Eden.

But as mentioned, given the possibility that Rose, unlike Cinderella, led the fight against the queen alone, and possibly the only one who helped her was Oswald because Abe and Old Tales don't know or understand who Rose is.

And given that Siren never left Old Tales, this means that the OH Leviathan would be much weaker than its in-game version, given that it would never meet Syren here.


But I wonder if here, unlike in the game, there was a rematch against Rose or if the latter didn't attack Goddess and just stayed in the elevator as a doorman?

 

[Kotawa]

I was intrigued by the premise but Joe is such a stereotype of a white knight redditor mixed with a bumbling harem manga protagonist that I couldn't make it through the end of chapter two.

Does he ever turn into an actual character? I'm really interested in finding out what the hell is going on with this Arcology and the world at large, but as it stands sitting through a horny gacha game looks like the better option.

 

[Jsebas19]

I was intrigued by the premise but Joe is such a stereotype of a white knight redditor mixed with a bumbling harem manga protagonist that I couldn't make it through the end of chapter two.

Does he ever turn into an actual character? I'm really interested in finding out what the hell is going on with this Arcology and the world at large, but as it stands sitting through a horny gacha game looks like the better option.

Click to shrink...

No offense.
But if you haven't seen the second or third chapter...
Then don't comment like that.

Try reading further, like chapters 50-60, so you can see more of Joe and how he develops.

The author himself said it and made it clear:
Joe is NOT a womanizing idiot like the game's MC.