Potential Rule 8 Question: Regarding the Recent Anti-NSFW Content Bans...

[Laath-]

God bless 4chan and Kiwi Farms.

Those sites might be full of snarky assholes but at least they actually have the balls to denounce this shit.

Meanwhile in the European Union...

 

[Vajra]

Those sites might be full of snarky assholes but at least they actually have the balls to denounce this shit.

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Speaking of snarky assholes, Null's reply to Ofcom's initial mail has his typical politeness when dealing with foreign govermnents.

Also, is it just me or does the "Liked by You and SHITFUCKER6969" really enhance this screencap?

 

[Aaron Fox]

To be honest, this is an inevitable thing due to how people would rather accept the political philosophy optimists (aka the political equivalent of candy salesmen) and ignore the political philosophy pessimists (aka the political equivalent of doctors). We've been constantly warned about things like how the unregulated internet is a threat, why even liberal democracies need their own memetic warfare divisions, and other 'undemocratic' things... and yet what they said was going to happen happened.

To give you guys a modified quote from SMAC(X):
"As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth's final century, free flow of information is the only safeguard against the best tool for tyranny... Beware of he who would deny you access give you free access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master."

As I've said elsewhere, evil wins when it gets a platform, and the internet as-is is the ultimate platform...

 

[Flux Casey]

To give you guys a modified quote from SMAC(X):
"As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth's final century, free flow of information is the only safeguard against the best tool for tyranny... Beware of he who would deny you access give you free access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master."

Click to shrink...

it is wild to say "a modified quote" as if you're borrowing wisdom, and then modifying that quote to say the exact opposite of what the quote actually said. At least you were honest about it? But that's a weird way to try to make a point.

 

[humon]

 

[NumberSix]

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Unless a benevolent alien comes to do it those that do the governing are also men.
And while power doesn't necessarily corrupt it as Frank Herbert noted, "attracts pathological personalities".

 

[xihute]

To be honest, this is an inevitable thing due to how people would rather accept the political philosophy optimists (aka the political equivalent of candy salesmen) and ignore the political philosophy pessimists (aka the political equivalent of doctors). We've been constantly warned about things like how the unregulated internet is a threat, why even liberal democracies need their own memetic warfare divisions, and other 'undemocratic' things... and yet what they said was going to happen happened.

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Nah, none of these things happened.

Instead, we had long campaign of fear mongering that prepared the ground for the change and people were being gaslighted into believing that their freedom can only be protected by taking the freedom away.

 

[NumberSix]

Nah, none of these things happened.

Instead, we had long campaign of fear mongering that prepared the ground for the change and people were being gaslighted that their freedom can only be protected by taking the freedom away.

Click to shrink...

It is not only that.
Governments all over are hitting record low levels of popularity while a bunch of special interest groups like all the usual Silicon Valley New Thing Sellers and their wall street buddies need to sell governments and other tech companies the solutions for problems that didn't exist before all these bans.
Namely A.I. this and that.
Just an attempt to keep the bubble going.

Greed and stupidity, basically.

 

[Cherry Lover]

OK, I'm pretty sure this is getting well into Rule 8 territory now, lol.

 

[Aaron Fox]

it is wild to say "a modified quote" as if you're borrowing wisdom, and then modifying that quote to say the exact opposite of what the quote actually said. At least you were honest about it? But that's a weird way to try to make a point.

Click to shrink...

The quote is modified to fit reality, not the idealistic fantasy that was flying around in the 1990s thanks to the 'End of History' hazard. Look up Electronic Communities: World Village or Cyber Balkans by MIT back in 1996/1997 and come back and say that it's latter half isn't prophecy.

It also ignores that technology (and the understanding of the universe it implies) determines practically everything, and our current state of technology has disprove quite a many assumptions... like privacy and unlimited information and speech.

Click to shrink...

Unironically, this is reality. Though, Agent K said it best:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPMMNvYTEyI
Hobbesian? Yes. True? Also yes.

 

[NumberSix]

OK, I'm pretty sure this is getting well into Rule 8 territory now, lol.

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Sure, but the first step in avoidng a trap is knowing of its existence.

To compare the situation with prohibition, it wasn't just the various feminist and religious groups and progressives thet pushed for alcohol bans.

Various industrialists wanted to ban alcohol because they saw it as a way to increase productivity, iirc Ford was one and so was J.P.Morgan.
Things for to the point where the "massive increase of productivity bought upon by prohibition" was touted as one of the reasons why the roaring 20s massively inflated stock market was not inflated.
There was also the desire of some parts of the establishment to curtail the political power of saloon owners, apparently.

In reality alcohol consumption didn't really fall, organized crime got a huge boost, and probably a lot more people died due to lower quality booze, and the government lost revenues...

 

[Canadian Leprechaun]

OK, I'm pretty sure this is getting well into Rule 8 territory now, lol.

Click to shrink...

It wasn't before?

Seriously though, I think the staff may be leaving this thread open to contain the handful of people that would DoomPost new threads about the end of QQ and what steps need to be taken every time another government stooge said they want to moderate the internet.

 

[Aaron Fox]

It wasn't before?

Seriously though, I think the staff may be leaving this thread open to contain the handful of people that would DoomPost new threads about the end of QQ and what steps need to be taken every time another government stooge said they want to moderate the internet.

Click to shrink...

Historically, containment threads tend to not contain shit. Sometimes they even are part of the reason why forums fall.

 

[D'znn-Xy'lll MetaChthonia]

There's also that ChatControl thing of trying to go full 1984 in Europe. It... Exists? Nothing has really changed on that AFAIK. Something about Palantir and the Nazi guy whining about how "no one could adapt to my utopia!" (As if that shouldn't be self evident it isn't one).

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And an Update to this:
It is now (currently) in a coma. So there is that for now. Uh, it's AI go digging through your private messages for Wrongthink. I think it's supposed to double as EUs version ot OSA as well? Not familiar with how the EU works but from what I gather as long as they lack confidence in it by November then it stays in the ground. Again. Apparently this is close to the seventh or so time this shit has been put out. Give no quarter. Overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer. They will keep try and the second you take your eye off them they will try to, in their own Words, "flood the zone". Purityrannicals in the US like to use EU and UK Laws like OSA and such as their own testbed. It's what started the Age Verification craze in the US after all.

Also an Updat for OSA:
4Chan got dragged into it by the UK Government. Dunno much beyond that but congrats to the UK Government for winning a Darwin Award in "kicking wasps nests".
[Edit]
Should be noted I Wrote this up last week. Just forgot to Post it. Luckily the recent interactions reminded me. More cent development resulted in a ruling from some legal court in the EU that CC is stupid and not how things work let alone Legally. Can't remember much beyond the jist being that.
[/Edit]

If we can take a break from Dznn's endless doomposting for a moment I'm hearing rumors regarding the Paypal situation that Steam is so pissed off about this whole thing that they're toying with the idea of starting their own payment processor. No credible sources yet but it'd be an absolutely amazing development in this whole saga if true.

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Been hearing people say they should but zero confirmation of them actually planning to.

View: https://youtu.be/RC7bCGGgvoQ%20What%20are%20your%20thoughts%20on%20all%20this?....
I wonder if this the best place but I'm currently watching a summery of a plausible conspiracy regarding everything being related to each-other. Mostly stemming from Roblox's latest fuckup regarding predators and punishing vigilantes instead of doing their job. And using that example for everyone to simultaneously launch the current internet happenings.

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Apparently already have a followup.

Spoiler: Video

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFo4sdt53fY

[Edit]
Also: been hearing talk aboout this being yet another Real Conspiracy. Apparently quite a number of the "thik ov da chilliez! BABY BACK RIBZ!" also want "baby back ribs" in a weirdly connected network.

Yet again I feel like I am being proven right from years back over on SB about how "think of the children" and all the Censorship is just cover by the very people they fearmonger about to hide they themselves doing what they claim.
[/Edit]

They aren't. That's a non-starter and they know it. The only people pushing for that are people outside of the government who support the intent of the new law, don't care about privacy concerns, and don't know a damn thing about what VPNs are actually for. Even the guy who went as far as to call anyone against the OSA a paedo was quick to say they're absolutely not going to ban VPNs.

The furthest they're actually going for that is to attempt restrictions of VPNs directly in the same way they're trying to restrict adult content. But even then, for the reasons that VPNs are actually useful and important in some lines of work (including government), mandating identification for use of a VPN is something that would be stupid to attempt.

However. stupidity always has the capacity to surprise you, doesn't it? "They'd never be dumb enough to-" and then they do it.

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Seem to recall seeing an excerpt from Parliament (or the House of Lords? I dunno how it works, I'm lucky to even Know the Terms. Literally no justifiable Reason to Know the nuances of how other countries' Governments function before this year and last time I talked about the UK Government this much was Brexit) somewhere Being confused by children already knowing not only about OSA but how to get around it and the answer to how reminded them of a trip to China for how to get around their Censorship. Although vaguely recall thinking at the time they were demonstrating a lack of Self Awareness so there probably was something like denials of being anything like them or something, can't quite remember it beyond that and the later statement. Anyway, later on they also brought up the proposals to ban VPNs and how stupid doing such is. So even if utterly illiterate about tech and Believing kids too stupid to Know how to use something they're infamous for being more savvy about and even justifying a paradox of how they're capable of bypassing things but somehow not this in particular they're still able to come to a conclusion that VPNs probably shouldn't be banned. Or at least one of them do.

Never attribute to stupidity what is clearly malice.

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'specially when the results are indistguishable. Stupidly malicious or maliciously stupid. Seems like half the planet wants to prove that this decade. Screaming 20s.

It is not only that.
Governments all over are hitting record low levels of popularity while a bunch of special interest groups like all the usual Silicon Valley New Thing Sellers and their wall street buddies need to sell governments and other tech companies the solutions for problems that didn't exist before all these bans.
Namely A.I. this and that.
Just an attempt to keep the bubble going.

Greed and stupidity, basically.

Click to shrink...

Creating Laws that necessitate strutures and databases they simply don't feel like making let alone maintaining. Been saying: putting the cart before the horse then never bothering with getting a horse for the cart and abandoning the cart. US Purityrannicals have been gloating about this tactic for almost 2 years now by using Age Verification that way.

AI Corpos just want the profit of selling the AI they advertise their product as without actually Inventing that product first. So it's a Bubble built on the Enron Strategy. Selling the promises of a bottled god that can do everything from program your cat to cleaning your taxes but the only thing they really produced is digital yesman and brand new forms of mental illness.

Governments essentially becoming data brokers selling their entire country's citizens' Information to the highest bidder.

OK, I'm pretty sure this is getting well into Rule 8 territory now, lol.

Click to shrink...

*taps the Title and first Posts in the entire Thread*

Historically, containment threads tend to not contain shit. Sometimes they even are part of the reason why forums fall.

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It's keeping me from talking about this elsewhere on here for the most part. Not fully but mostly.

 

[Lorsïthrorung]

Since I've been pinged. May as well repost some more stuff from my favorite furry fighting gamer's Waffle House channel.

View: https://x.com/madamsavvy/status/1960957061841228175?s=46&t=jGb8iQGnZpjCwZDxOwkMuw

View: https://x.com/madamsavvy/status/1960951737587495401?s=46&t=jGb8iQGnZpjCwZDxOwkMuw

 

[xihute]

Ford recently said they had some sort of planned policy derailed by the fact credit card companies don't like you hosting mind control fic, which implies SV would otherwise be more cool with mind control fic. No idea what the specifics are there.

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I should note that it's not just a threat. Patreon was forced to delete the accounts of authors and artists creating mind-control smut after their payment processors reached out. Mastercard etc consider it to be the same as graphic rape media because it's non-consensual. I'm not exactly SV's biggest fan, but they're doing the sensible thing here.

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Well, an example from near internet neighborhood (Sufficient Velocity) how payment processors can enforce their dictatorial will within existing framework.

Not very funny.

 

[Whitesnake Pelinal]

Well, an example from near internet neighborhood (Sufficient Velocity) how payment processors can enforce their dictatorial will within existing framework.

Not very funny.

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"extremists" warned when they were debanked years ago that the consequence of successes against them would be that more would suffer the same fate, as the tool was found to be useful and effective, and would be taken up by others.

Americans would do well to read up on the tactics used to shut down VDARE, and imagine their favorite sites on the receiving end of a district attorney's ire. Claims that one does not deserve such action, or that it is wrong, accomplish little in the face of authority backed by power.

 

[humon]

Vae victis

 

[xihute]

"extremists" warned when they were debanked years ago that the consequence of successes against them would be that more would suffer the same fate, as the tool was found to be useful and effective, and would be taken up by others.

Americans would do well to read up on the tactics used to shut down VDARE, and imagine their favorite sites on the receiving end of a district attorney's ire. Claims that one does not deserve such action, or that it is wrong, accomplish little in the face of authority backed by power.

Click to shrink...

Turns out that championing censorship doesn't protect you from censorship.

Now, from the perspective of time such cases do look like test-runs.

 

[LurkingInTheDeceit]

Source
We've been giving this thread quite a bit of leeway with regards to Rule 8, due to how relevant the subject matter is to QQ as a site. That does not mean that Rule does not exist here, however:

Of course, you should avoid actually getting into the political aspects of it.

Click to shrink...

This is going off-topic into a number of Rule-8-sensitive issues.

Let's keep it specifically on the topic of anti-NSFW policies, and not go off too much into florid imaginings about how the future is terrible.

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Reminder to be careful about not slipping into Rule 8 territory here. Or else.

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We don't like having to keep repeating ourselves. I'll be putting up a threadbanner, so there will be no more warnings of this type, just punishments.

Since I've been pinged. May as well repost some more stuff from my favorite furry fighting gamer's Waffle House channel.

View: https://x.com/madamsavvy/status/1960957061841228175?s=46&t=jGb8iQGnZpjCwZDxOwkMuw

View: https://x.com/madamsavvy/status/1960951737587495401?s=46&t=jGb8iQGnZpjCwZDxOwkMuw

Click to shrink...

"extremists" warned when they were debanked years ago that the consequence of successes against them would be that more would suffer the same fate, as the tool was found to be useful and effective, and would be taken up by others.

Americans would do well to read up on the tactics used to shut down VDARE, and imagine their favorite sites on the receiving end of a district attorney's ire. Claims that one does not deserve such action, or that it is wrong, accomplish little in the face of authority backed by power.

Click to shrink...

This is not the 'everything censorship' thread, nor should you be bringing up such controversial political items. Stick to news and examples directly relevant to NSFW content bans. Also:

To be honest, this is an inevitable thing due to how people would rather accept the political philosophy optimists (aka the political equivalent of candy salesmen) and ignore the political philosophy pessimists (aka the political equivalent of doctors). We've been constantly warned about things like how the unregulated internet is a threat, why even liberal democracies need their own memetic warfare divisions, and other 'undemocratic' things... and yet what they said was going to happen happened.

To give you guys a modified quote from SMAC(X):
"As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth's final century, free flow of information is the only safeguard against the best tool for tyranny... Beware of he who would deny you access give you free access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master."

As I've said elsewhere, evil wins when it gets a platform, and the internet as-is is the ultimate platform...

Click to shrink...

Post less of this oblique Rule 8 bait (which is not an invitation to be explicit). That goes for those who swallowed this bait as well.

I would normally just leave it at a Warning, but all of you have a history of this kind of thing. Each of you can take a three day threadban.

 

[NumberSix]

IMHO chat control and similar government mandated spyware and mass surveillance is basically a ban on porn done indirectly.

- YouTube

Profitez des vidéos et de la musique que vous aimez, mettez en ligne des contenus originaux, et partagez-les avec vos amis, vos proches et le monde entier.

youtu.be

View: https://youtu.be/V9UNdPO_kkc?feature=shared

View: https://youtu.be/EXYATfmuf7k?feature=shared

 

[D'znn-Xy'lll MetaChthonia]

Some updates:
KOSA gained more sponsors. Don't remember what percent of passing was on GovTrack but it's 15% now. Vaguely recall T.A.K.E.I.T.D.O.W.N. had 20% so don't trust that. Not entirely sure how it would impact QQ if at all. Anyway, last time it timed out before it could pass and had more supporters but it was also on the last stage to the President's desk. The main beneficiary for it (someone Named "Blackburn") also pissed off Cruz, the one who is necessary for it to go anywhere, during the BBB thing earlier in the year with the AI stuff. It's a red-on-red violence situation, they're both in support of the same things but ego is making the actually legislature side of the process obstruct himself out of spite for the vocal component. It also is still in Committee and we're in October with numerous other obstructions to it. AFAIK there's only a Senate version and no House version as well.

Chatcontrol is having problems. I'm not European nor am I 100% on how much this will impact QQ either. Mentions of it being officially dead has been thrown around.

California has a new Law that's a spin on the Age Verification in a "parents need to actually parent their kids instead of making corporations do it for them". Makes it so devices in the State needs the user's age entered upon first activation in order to have the parent controls turned on or off (I am reminded how one of the Bills I have an eye on tries to justify itself by claiming that "it's too hard" and "how are parents supposed to know there's programs to keep their kids from going places" and "kids find their ways around anything! Except this, lets pretend they can't find a way around this"). This is one I can tentatively get behind but it's just one State and is the easiest possible to be hijacked by the ones who have been doing the other Age Verification and of course the logistics. Still better then the manufacturing of an Age Verification Industrial Complex via the cart before the horse then abandoning the cart indirect Censorship thing they have been doing. Still a pipe dream to think this will get any form of momentum and supplant the other Age Verification stuff that relies upon a public database of identities that not only doesn't but never will Exist that, as mentioned, has been causing an Age Verification Industry to crop up. Google also has been on a stance with this one of wanting it to be the standard instead of the current crusade's golden cow.

And of course a reminder for US based concerns (especially given, AFAIK, QQ is a US based Website like SV and SB):
Every dramatic tantrum or overly flamboyant focus on austerity projects delays all other Bills including the Censorship ones as well. Should delays reach January 20(?) the Bills are cleared and need to be reintroduced. Currently the Government is in Shutdown. They would need to focus on Stateside stuff.

Spoiler: US Gov Calendar

At this point anything not out of Committee will need to bumrush the process once they do. If they manage to stay in Committee by end of December then expect it to be a non-factor. I would say more on why these should already be considered a non-factor instead as well but that journeys into Rule 8 Territory outside the Free Pass coverage.

 

[locke24]

A revised Chat Control 2.0 that's somehow worse got voted through the Law Enforcement Working Group, effectively still enforcing mandatory scanning and just outright outlawing anonymous communication by requiring citizens to verify their age before using a service.

Fight Chat Control (@fightchatcontrol.bsky.social)

bsky.app

It's not dead yet. Make the word happen.

 

[NumberSix]

A revised Chat Control 2.0 that's somehow worse got voted through the Law Enforcement Working Group, effectively still enforcing mandatory scanning and just outright outlawing anonymous communication by requiring citizens to verify their age before using a service.

Fight Chat Control (@fightchatcontrol.bsky.social)

bsky.app

It's not dead yet. Make the word happen.

Click to shrink...

Meanwhile Signal has said that they will not abide by this bullshit and there is something called session that looks to be even more privacy focused and decentralized.
This must fail and fail hard.

 

[D'znn-Xy'lll MetaChthonia]

Some US Rule 8 News regarding stuff like Age Verification and the like I just Learned:
A good chunk of them alongside both KOSA and SCREEN got rolled into a clusterfuck of a Bill called "K.I.D.S." (because Conservatives apparently think like Bond Villains and have the same Naming Conventions for some weirdo reason these days). KOSA also got its Duty-of-Care teeth torn out about a month or two ago. Anyway, GuvTrack lists at 4% but historically frankenbills alone, let alone ones that had their individual parts not be talked to death, have a near 0% chance of passing. Oh and it has AI Regulation stuff in it. It's in the Committee that needs to get past Ted Cruz to get to the House or the Senate. My Source wasn't clear on his AI stance and I can't remember it but from what I gather? As long as it has the AI stuff it ain't getting out of Committee. It also has till November to get anywhere and it's in the mark-up phase. KOSA actually failed last time from it not getting to Biden before the Midterm Reset.

While it looks scarier it actually has negative zero chances of passing as is. But complacency is an assassin so it's best to still treat it as if it's at 100% while secure in the Knowledge it isn't. Paranoia is what kept your ancestors from becoming lunch.

---

The California OS level Age Verification also passed so hopefully that can get momentum to overtake the invasive one. For recap: it makes it a one-time device Age Verification that either locks the device to child (dunno if it's for a limited time based on Age, permanent, or until unlocked somehow) or allowed free access without childproofing. Basically like the existing programs but preinstalled. Duty of Care going to the one who should have been controlling device access of the child from the beginning rather then having the Government decide it for everyone.

Neat FunFact I recently Learned: California is the Reason for the "Ask for Cookies" thing becoming popular. Was only somewhat a thing before then, been one since the Invention of tracking cookies, but California made the "don't sell my data" part of it and pretty much made it into a default across the Internet.

 

[NumberSix]

---

The California OS level Age Verification also passed so hopefully that can get momentum to overtake the invasive one. For recap: it makes it a one-time device Age Verification that either locks the device to child (dunno if it's for a limited time based on Age, permanent, or until unlocked somehow) or allowed free access without childproofing. Basically like the existing programs but preinstalled. Duty of Care going to the one who should have been controlling device access of the child from the beginning rather then having the Government decide it for everyone.

Click to shrink...

I guess 2026 will be the year of the Linux desktop at least it California.

Neat FunFact I recently Learned: California is the Reason for the "Ask for Cookies" thing.

Click to shrink...

Huh?
If you mean the prompts that ask you which cookies you want to allow and what date you are ok to share that was part of the EU GDPR.

 

[NumberSix]

For anyone who is concerned about their privacy and freedom of speech I suggest you look into Linux and alternate droid roms, soon!


View: https://youtu.be/lqt5czOckdw

 

[D'znn-Xy'lll MetaChthonia]

content erased

Thread is about maximizing despair and paranoia about the potential for anti-NSFW Bills not trying to relieve such.

 

[alethiophile]

snip

Click to shrink...

This thread has a limited waiver of Rule 8 for the specific purpose of discussing various censorship initiatives around NSFW content, which are directly relevant to QQ's purpose. It does not have any waiver for tangentially related, factually dubious political commentary on the US political situation as a whole.

Please to cease.

 

[NumberSix]

For the record I just want to say, when I talk about "freedom of speech and privacy" in the context of this thread I basically mean porn.