Regarding Rules 3/7, and turncoat authors who burned their work

[JBukharin]

I don't see the issue regardless of the high standing I have been reading: an author has the right to delete their story if they want to do so. I most definitely deleted a few ones from my early fanfic eras out of FFN which made me feel embarrassed or because I got genuinely harassed by people that bitched about wanting some continued despite explicitly stating I was done writing about those. In fact, I am sure I did this on QQ too, so the thing that really infuriates me is what I perceive as entitlement.

The threadmaker definitely isn't a representative for all readers, so he should step down from that faux pedestal. You are doing this by your own personal reasons and trying to grasp at any viable option within the website to be given permission to host archives of removed stories.

Let me ask you this if it was allowed: how many authors would feel safe in posting in QQ knowing this is the first step for further regulations on how much of a 'right' a writer has for their stories? Because I had already been facing with people purposely ripping my active stories without permission and against the rules, I most definitely don't want these people to get a chance to use this very reasoning to push for more leeway through this supposed new rule.

I will not speak for all authors here, since I am not their representatives nor I will take some silly highstand about it, so I will say just this:

I personally object to this notion and I hope common sense buries it for good.

 

[D72]

I have disliked the way some of your stories have gone but I absolutely respect your right to remove or reformulate them at your pleasure. If you did decide a story was either embarrassing, or just shit, that's down to you, not the audience.
Thank you for helping me refine my views on this issue.

 

[BronzePlaceWriter]

I'll be honest, if there was no right to delete your stuff from here, I would probably just never post anything else that I worked on. There's a bunch of reasons for that, including the fact that I write pretty hardcore stuff depending on the job and the commission. I don't currently have any plans to pull anything, and hopefully I never will, but there are possible futures where that might change. Having the option open can be a matter of safety for a smut writer in my position.

Maybe one of my clients who agreed to let me post their story changes their mind.

Maybe some stuff comes up with ownership issues of a specific story.

Maybe the UK government gets even dumber and I gotta protect myself.

Hell, at one point, I DID have to withdraw a short story due to a client changing their mind about stuff!

All these things are possible, and I have to account for them. But even more than this, it's my story. I wrote it. I'm not submitting it to some idealized, universal myth we all share. The right to introduce a story to public consumption is paired with the right to withdraw it, and exercising that right doesn't make me a turncoat or traitor, or whatever other ridiculous notion is getting thrown around in the OP.

 

[ReluctantCrusader]

In addition to what authors have so said, the idea the OP is pushing would have caused many new writers to not even try writing their own works. I have nothing posted on this site (smut is very much not my style) but I do have some short stuff posted in other places and slowly working on larger stuff. A thing to note about me is that I am very sensitive to criticism from myself and others in a "thinking 'this chapter is a mistake' after sleeping on it even though I've edited the chapter for days" kind of way. I was way worse in my days of experimentation before I found my style. What allowed me to post anything at all is that I can delet it if still thought it was that bad. I did use the button sometimes while others I have kept up. If there was no delete button, I would have kept my works on paper and burn them every month.

 

[BloodFartMoon]

My personal take: Authors are free to delete their stuff, after all they made it.

However i think they shouldnt get to complain if someone archives it.

I personally think if youre going to delete all your shit you should at least have the decency to warn people and give them like 24 or 48 hours to archive it, even if just for personal use like just copy pasting a story on Word and not hosting/reposting publicly.

Im not even talking about all those Twitter artists that get Gooners remorse, bulding their audience through NSFW then suddenly deleting everything and then hoping that audience sticks for their sfw. Thats a different thing

 

[Wild Transient]

My personal take: Authors are free to delete their stuff, after all they made it.

However i think they shouldnt get to complain if someone archives it.

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I doubt anyone will really argue about that one so long as it's for personal use and the Archiver doesn't try use it for monetary purposes.

I mean look at Ao3. They literally allow fics to be downloaded by readers as Epubs or other formats as a standard/default option for every fic that's posted on their site.

 

[Dissimilate]

Certain porn authors burn their freely-released work as part of an attempt to become a professional writer, sometimes in an attempt to start selling that work and other times due to wanting a public image "untainted" by porn. We have quite a few threads here that have had their story posts removed as part of this practice.

Is it against the rules to link to archived versions* of this work? (Asking because some people might consider this piracy.)

Furthermore, if it is permissible, does posting a link to an archived intact version of a story count as a "significant contribution" to dead threads that have had their story posts burned? Certainly, it would greatly increase the amount of story accessible in said threads from "zero". (Yes, I want to piss on some of these people's "QQ graves" by making the threads they've disembowelled contain access to their work again.**)

*Snapshots of free off-QQ sites, as QQ's NSFW section is not crawlable.

**NB: I get that you don't really like people posting stories that they didn't write without permission; I'd be sticking to links.

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Saying this here again: This is NOT legal advice.

Suppose you have a good friend in real life who has decided to write a book (genre does not matter), an actual honest-to-god paperback you can hold in your hand. You and them happen to have the same interests in what genres you enjoy and so they decide to ask you to preread each chapter and give feedback. Does the plot make sense? Does the story progress in a realistic way? Do the characters feel real and natural? You decide to help your friend and preread the story and give the feedback.

Now, unbeknownst to your friend, you decide to take each chapter to the nearest photocopy machine, and copy every page before you give the chapter back to your friend along with your feedback notes. Even if you keep those copied pages in a shoebox and never do anything else with them or show them to anyone, you have already committed theft. Your friend never agreed to allow you to make copies, they never asked you to make copies. It was never in the "Feedback Contract" as an allowable action.

Suppose that halfway through the book, your friend decides to scrap the whole story. Something happened and they cannot continue writing the story. It could be something happened in that person's life and they no longer have time to write, or maybe they are no longer pleased with what they have written.... the reason honestly does not matter. They have stopped writing.

Your friend still OWNS that story. It is theirs according to Intellectual Property laws. They own everything about that story as soon as each word is written on paper or digitally. There is no transference of ownership unless they have specifically signed the ownership over to someone else with a valued payment or unless they have given rights to someone else to publish it.

When you made your copies to put into your personal "archive", all you did was theft, plain and simple. You literally stole someone else's property. It does not matter if it was real paper copies or a digital copy, it is still theft.

Plagiarism occurs as soon as you decide to provide the public access to your friend's story. If you make a copy of your friend's story in a google doc and then post a link to it somewhere on the internet, then you have in fact just plagiarized their work. I say that as there are some countries who give a copywrite to the person who creates a work AND a different copywrite to the first person to publish a work. So unless all of those countries are banned from accessing your google doc of the stolen work, then yes, you have also plagiarized... even if you have noted "I did NOT write this".

Whether you agree with this or not is irrelevant. Also you should be prepared in case the author of one of your "archived" stories decides to press charges, which they are perfectly legally entitled to do. Though in some countries, law enforcement does not even need the author's permission and can charge you with theft anyways.

Also, This is NOT legal advice.

 

[BronzePlaceWriter]

I doubt anyone will really argue about that one so long as it's for personal use and the Archiver doesn't try use it for monetary purposes.

I mean look at Ao3. They literally allow fics to be downloaded by readers as Epubs or other formats as a standard/default option for every fic that's posted on their site.

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Yeah. even with what I said before, if anyone likes any of my stories,. they're free to save them. They're free to pass them around too, with my blessing even. The only thing I really object to is that if I removed them from public, it's probably for a reason and I don't think it's too much for people to want to respect that.

Save 'em? Absolutely. Pass them around in private? Not an issue. Hell, even ask me for them if you want. Assuming there's no other issue, I'll probably give you a copy. But like, give me the chance to scrub my shit from the public web if I gotta, you know?

 

[LurkingInTheDeceit]

I really just want to know if linking to outside sources of lost/deleted stuff is fine.

Since it seems reposting here is not, but no mod clarification yet on other websites.

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To be clear, the ruling applies to reposting, or linking to an archived version of, any QQ user's deleted work.



I'm pretty interested in this topic though, so I'll probably effort-post later.

 

[CriticalFailure]

To be clear, the ruling applies to reposting, or linking to an archived version of, any QQ user's deleted work

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That sucks massively.

...or is this going to be like nhentai references where I can post it on ao3 and just tell how to lead to it as long as it is not a direct link?

 

[GurgleGerbil]

Yoooo, my head is kinda loopy at the moment, so forgive me if this sounds stupid. I mean, I'm not exactly smart in the first place, so that doesn't help either.

I look at the smut I post the same way I look at a prostitute.

At the end of the day, the goal is the same. Make people happy, give them a good time, that's all. I'm just doing it for free on here. That said, if a woman - or man, I suppose - is spending their time making people happy by taking their clothes off, they also have the right to put their clothes back on.

This is the internet, so once it's out there it's out there, but I feel like people should have the right to do what they want with anything that belongs to them. Saying it belongs to the public after it was put on display just doesn't really sound right to me, I dunno.

Like, I want people to be happy and pursue their own happiness. From the author's perspective, that might at some point involve scrubbing their smut, especially if they've been exposed in real life and it's directly harming them. Or maybe they need the money and are trying to make writing something they can either do for a living, or use to supplement their income, and want to do as mentioned before; convert all of their free content into paid content. I've seen it done before, seen it done in actual official stuff too, and while it can be annoying I've never felt entitled to that formerly free content.

When someone gives me something for free, then decides they no longer want to give it to me anymore, I don't hold that against them even if I don't necessarily like it.

Ergo, if a woman wants to make my day better by showing me her bits decides she wants to put her clothes back on, I'm always going to stand on the side of the woman and not the person looking. I'm also going to think the worst of someone who posts that woman's nudes and shares it with the public. That's the kind of thing people kill themselves over, just don't do it.

Like, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, it's just my personal morals and ethics that tells me I should respect the wishes of the person who owns whatever it is that was shared.

Hypothetical situation.

You've written a bunch of really weird porn, millions of words of it, and suddenly your family and friends have found out about it. Then you quickly delete all of it in an attempt to keep as much as possible private, only for a bunch of people to start reposting it, allowing your friends and family and just people who know you to see it. You've never hurt anyone with what you've posted, but now it is certainly going to hurt you, maybe even ruin your life.

Like, seriously, a bottle of pills or a bullet or a swan dive off the side of a bridge are starting to sound preferable now.

Worse, the people who are reposting your content and doing this to you? They're the people that you spent years entertaining for free, people you did good things for. They now think you're scum for trying to protect yourself, and have taken it upon themselves to attack you, to drive you into a dead end.

I want people to enjoy themselves while reading my work, I also like to think that a majority of them would respect my wishes if I ever decided to scrub my threads. QQ is a safe and happy place for me, the mods have stepped in to handle anything that isn't, and I am eternally grateful for that. 'turncoat authors who burned their work' makes me feel very not safe, okay?

At the end of the day, that's my take on it. The writer did you a service, going against their wishes is repaying that favor with a disservice. It's plain ungrateful and malicious.

My own sense of right and wrong wouldn't allow me to do that, it's just the way I was raised.

Different people have different morals and ethics, those are mine.

 

[LurkingInTheDeceit]

That sucks massively.

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My sympathies.

...or is this going to be like nhentai references where I can post it on ao3 and just tell how to lead to it as long as it is not a direct link?

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This isn't a ruling solely to avoid legal trouble*, as in the download link part of Rule 3, so I don't think we'll be very amused by people playing technicalities.

*Though I guess we are a lot more likely to provoke legal action from current QQ members, rather than people that have never heard of us.