Rule 3 Addendum - Translations of Others' Works

[Specter360]

Honestly, this feels like a massive headache that just going to keep coming and coming because at the end of the days

People with different languages in different region will just do things anyway because it far easier to do so and less annoying

Mark my words, we probably be still be seeing the usual stuff

 

[Jason Wu]

Though now the potential new accounts on this site would probably leave out the its a translation disclaimer at the beginning. For a really niche fic or series it might be hard to find out...

 

[Megaolix]

So one of them IS good and the other is trash and the trashy one started screeching for intervention from the mods.

Nice.

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Nope. Neither translator were involved in that.

 

[Otokonoko Culture]

Nope. Neither translator were invovled in that.

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Let me have the interesting internet drama in my head.

 

[magic9mushroom]

Equating copyright of a story to market monopolies? Whut?

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Uh, yes? Copyright is literally "authors get a legal monopoly on distributing their work, in order to aid monetisation".

I have a Patreon that I use to fund video essays that I research? Nothing stopping other people from taking my video essays and uploading them to their YouTube channel to make revenue from ads. Books I wrote can now be published by other parties and sold in bookstores. Digital storefronts can put up copies of my book for "pay what you want." Etc.

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You and @joesmith1999 are basically having the same general problem: you're trying to apply the conventions and business models of a world used to copyright to a world without copyright, noticing that they wouldn't work, and then saying that this is clearly unjust.

There are alternative business models that do not require copyright, and the incentives in a world without copyright are extremely different such that the exploitation you envision wouldn't work.

In order:

1) YouTube doesn't pay uploaders any significant amount of money in a copyright-free world. It certainly doesn't pay an ongoing percentage of ad revenue. Hence, this exploitation fails to get any more money than "a nominal finder's fee for doing the upload". Your Patreon quite likely does not fully fail, because people are paying for the videos' existence and only Chastity can make new Chastity videos (yes, there's a tragedy-of-the-commons problem, but it's not all that big).
2) They can manufacture physical books and sell them... but the cost of a book in a world without copyright is cost of production plus a tiny profit margin, due to competition. They get a reasonable price for the materials and for physically running a printing press (which is useful, if less glamorous than the idea side), and that's all.
3) They put up copies of your book for "pay what you want"... and get at best a fraction of a cent per download, because requiring more gets them immediately undercut by other digital storefronts. Again, no exploit for megabucks, just being paid a reasonable price for running a file-hosting service.

NB: I will grant that a copyright-free world does not permit ongoing creator revenue from works (it has to all be up-front), at least without going socialist.

 

[Ambitious]

You and @joesmith1999 are basically having the same general problem: you're trying to apply the conventions and business models of a world used to copyright to a world without copyright, noticing that they wouldn't work, and then saying that this is clearly unjust.

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Again, why are you discussing major societal change in a thread about a mostly-porn forum changing its policy on translations? This policy change is made and evaluated in the context of a capitalist economy with copyright, and this forum doesn't have the clout to change either of those; what would be a good policy in a hypothetical different society is missing the point.

 

[Dennis Simon Kenny]

Honestly, this feels like a massive headache that just going to keep coming and coming because at the end of the days

People with different languages in different region will just do things anyway because it far easier to do so and less annoying

Mark my words, we probably be still be seeing the usual stuff

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There have always been people who won't follow the rules and the mods just ban them. It's not a new scenario.

Though now the potential new accounts on this site would probably leave out the its a translation disclaimer at the beginning. For a really niche fic or series it might be hard to find out...

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Trying to subvert the rules by passing off someone else's work as one's own sounds like a good way to get an insta-ban when one gets caught and betting that one won't get caught sounds like a terrible bet to me.

 

[Chastity]

NB: I will grant that a copyright-free world does not permit ongoing creator revenue from works (it has to all be up-front), at least without going socialist.

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Yes, in a copyright free world, creators cannot make money unless they are already established, and the amount of money they can make is heavily curtailed because they can only be paid "sight unseen". This is bad, not good. People like copyright and defend it because it is a good policy (excepting infinity copyright, which is finally over). If you do not personally like it, you can release your works into the public domain.

 

[seeing_octarine]

Yes, in a copyright free world, creators cannot make money unless they are already established, and the amount of money they can make is heavily curtailed because they can only be paid "sight unseen".

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And now you're being blatantly disingenuous. No point in trying to continue further, so have fun with that. Maybe don't try to put forward such arguments in a forum where you have a commissions thread and usage of patreon/subscribestar runs rampant.

 

[Chastity]

And now you're being blatantly disingenuous. No point in trying to continue further, so have fun with that. Maybe don't try to put forward such arguments in a forum where you have a commissions thread and usage of patreon/subscribestar runs rampant.

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Yes, congrats. I also write 10k words a week to make sub-poverty-line wages. It scales like shit.

 

[Ubylkoen]

Yeah it's a weird etiquette. GRRM doesn't like fanfiction but that has never stopped the fans

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GRRM is a filthy hypocrite who have written fanfiction himself of Jaime and Tyrion Lannister going around killing of characters from other franchises, said pieces of writing still exists on his Notablog. This was done when some website or the other held a vote thing on who was the strongest. GRRM and some other authors got in on it and belted out fanfiction stuff. Thus people should disregard anything he has to say on the matter.

 

[Kinematics]

If you do not personally like it, you can release your works into the public domain.

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This may not actually be possible. It is not legally settled whether you can voluntarily release something into the public domain. It's been a while since I read about it, but it was rather legally messy, as I recall.

You can, however, use something like the Creative Commons licenses to get an approximate equivalent that is enforceable using copyright law.

 

[AztecCroc]

Is there a reason this thread is still unlocked?

It's just devolved into circular arguments about copyright at this point.

 

[Chronometry]

Is there a reason this thread is still unlocked?

It's just devolved into circular arguments about copyright at this point.

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It's vital to maintaining the illusion that this forum is a democracy when it is in fact a dictatorial oligarchy.

 

[JadeKaiser]

Is there a reason this thread is still unlocked?

It's just devolved into circular arguments about copyright at this point.

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It's only been a mess, rather than a problematic mess, so there's been no real reason to shut it down yet. If you want it closed, there's always the option of lighting the thread on fire and throwing yourself upon the flames. Wouldn't recommend it, but it exists.

 

[LurkingInTheDeceit]

It's vital to maintaining the illusion that this forum is a democracy when it is in fact a dictatorial oligarchy.

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I think I've probably seen more mods/admins calling QQ a dictatorship than I have users, despite the comparative populations. If anyone is trying to maintain such an illusion, they're not doing a great job.

You don't concede any power by letting people share their opinions, but you might get useful feedback. Past that point, as long as it's not blowing up or becoming a report sink, letting people chat (without derailing) seems harmless.

 

[Blackraptor]

I wonder if the people who are complaining about this change realize that there is a very simple solution to deal with this problem? Just learn the language of the original work and read it there. Remove the middleman who might not even be doing a good translation.

 

[Specter360]

I wonder if the people who are complaining about this change realize that there is a very simple solution to deal with this problem? Just learn the language of the original work and read it there. Remove the middleman who might not even be doing a good translation.

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Hell no that is a very insulted solution, as someone who have to learn three languages as a Malaysian born citizen

First is Melanau as it the language of my people

Second is Melayu due it being the nation language

And third is English due to it being a required language to learn in school

I can confirm without a shadow of a doubt, remembering the language is super fraking hard and it not very easy to learn, understand and remember it well

And it took me years to fully grasp the languages

Telling someone to learn a brand new language is not a solution,

Even learning the basic wording for said new languages will take months because you need to understand the meaning of the word, learn how to properly use the word and remember the spelling for said word

There is a reason why Translation job for anything like games, novel, manga, tv shows and etc etc make good profits because it actually a solution for a problem that cannot be easily solved

 

[Blackraptor]

Telling someone to learn a brand new language is not a solution,

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Sounds like loser talk, honestly. If those translations mean so much to everyone, then put in the work. Of course it's not easy. I never said it was. I said that it was simple. You learn the language, you never have to deal with mistranslations or no translations ever again.

Stop making excuses. Put in the fucking work.

 

[Specter360]

Sounds like loser talk, honestly. If those translations mean so much to everyone, then put in the work. Of course it's not easy. I never said it was. I said that it was simple. You learn the language, you never have to deal with mistranslations or no translations ever again.

Stop making excuses. Put in the fucking work.

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The problem is it not so simple, it more complex then that

It not like putting together a Lego sets that was design to be simple no matter how complex it products is

Languages is more complex especially when you living in Asian country's due to nation like China, Japan and anything close have different dialect or different way to use said words

Like I using Melayu right now

Cuba Rasa apa macam kalau orang kena belaja bahasa baru Dan kena faham apa maksud ayat - ayat yang telah digunakan sini

And you gonna learn how to form properly said sentence above to better understand it

It not loser talk nor Excuses

Learning is not supposed to be simple, it meant to be a long time studying it and understand it fully

Time people cannot just spend willy nilly

Reading is suppose to be a relaxing moment,

Not spending time learning a new language to read something you want to read which could be just one or two novel overall

Plus I never said anything about it being easy or simple, simply pointing out that language takes a lot of time to properly understand, being able to read it and know the meaning of said words

 

[Vanbers]

Sounds like loser talk, honestly. If those translations mean so much to everyone, then put in the work. Of course it's not easy. I never said it was. I said that it was simple. You learn the language, you never have to deal with mistranslations or no translations ever again.

Stop making excuses. Put in the fucking work.

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You're telling everyone that simply because they're annoyed at losing something they should give up everything else and dedicate their life to a difficult pursuit to solve a problem that is incredibly easily solved by just having the translation.

Calling people losers because they like translations but don't want to go through the SIGNIFICANT effort of learning a whole-ass language (or multiple languages, if there's multiple places you like works from), is retarded.

"Wanting to travel" can also be easily solved by years of flight school, getting a license, getting a job at an airline, and then flying there yourself. It's not easy, but it's simple. Just learn to fly and do it yourself, you lazy loser.

Or you can just buy a fucking plane ticket.

 

[seeing_octarine]

Yes, congrats. I also write 10k words a week to make sub-poverty-line wages. It scales like shit.

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Yes. Creative industries often have winner-take-all pay curves and aren't sustainable as a sole income source unless you're in a relatively small top percentage of earners. That's got nothing to do with copyright either way though, it's just the nature of the game you're playing.

 

[Wretcheddskyz]

I can sorta understand the logic. Whether you play Pokemon in English, Japanese or German its still the same game

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Not really you're boiling it down to just gameplay, sometimes understanding the plot and characters can make a mediocre/garbage game actually good

 

[Wretcheddskyz]

But it would hurt the site if any of those novels were translated and published here (because the main problem with this is the original works, at some point they could be published officially) Then QQ could get sued, which would really be bad for the site.

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It wouldn't, it would if a copyright holder asked them to take it off and they refused, but they literally have rules in place that make them not liable for that

 

[Chastity]

Yes. Creative industries often have winner-take-all pay curves and aren't sustainable as a sole income source unless you're in a relatively small top percentage of earners. That's got nothing to do with copyright either way though, it's just the nature of the game you're playing.

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In your alternate universe without copyright, there are 0 long-term earnings from anything I write. The moment I stop writing, all my income disappears, forever, under all circumstances.

e: Actually, you know what, I'm now feeling your same thought. If your imagination is that all authors should just be content losing a significant chunk of their already dismal income, then why even bother talking to you?

 

[Thatonesungod]

It wouldn't, it would if a copyright holder asked them to take it off and they refused, but they literally have rules in place that make them not liable for that

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As we have seen with events like Funko's recent takedown of all of Itch.io, the existence of those rules and structures does not mean anything when large media enterprises decide not to care and flex their power in the space, which QQ cannot afford.

 

[Wretcheddskyz]

Thank God we won't see that brainrot racist crap anymore

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Don't be a bigot.

 

[KinKrow]

As we have seen with events like Funko's recent takedown of all of Itch.io,

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Forgot about that shitshow, lol.

Don't be a bigot.

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???

 

[Wretcheddskyz]

As we have seen with events like Funko's recent takedown of all of Itch.io, the existence of those rules and structures does not mean anything when large media enterprises decide not to care and flex their power in the space, which QQ cannot afford.

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So qq is a coward? This seems like a panicked reaction to cover the sites ass, even though they have rules literally in place for this, and less a decision made for the better of the site and it's consumers.

 

[KinKrow]

So qq is a coward?

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Strawman. He didn't say that QQ administration were cowards, you're putting words in his louth.

This seems like a panicked reaction to cover the sites ass, even though they have rules literally in place for this,

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The rules of a website don't supercede the law, and the law has been abused in the past to take websites down.

less a decision made for the better of the site and it's consumers.

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In your opinion. The website is free, and there are other sites you can go to to get translated foreign novel.

Furthermore, 'worsening the site for its consumers' implies QQ was made to host translated novels rather than the actual purpose of hosting erotic fanfiction, quests, and original stories/quests.

The administration is banning translated novels written by individuals other than the original artist to preemptively avoid legal issues, but they're also every bit in their right to ban it as something that the poster didn't write themselves.

TLDR; Boohoo. The fanfiction site isn't hosting original works posted without the creator's consent anymore. The administration can do whatever the hell they want, and you can still get your xianxia slop elsewhere.

You may have detected a bit of dispassionate lack of care at the end there, but rest assured, you're completely correct about how little I care.