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The princess was hypothesizing Sophia was her father's bastard, not uncle's.If she's really our uncle's bastard strengtening our pseudo rivalry could give us an angle to work on our uncle from.
is pretty popular, tied for first with the Sophia Hill choice. Since you guys can't see into my head, I just wanted to make sure you guys realized that it's essentially the safe option: The princess will keep on trucking in magic classes without any particular strong points or weak points, and we'll skip the second event of the year in exchange for some extra Fate points to change classes or save up as a bulwark for better options in the future. Once the little recruitment segment is over, we'll be moving on to the wrap-up arc of the year.[X] Your teachers are at each other's throats! It would not be wise to favor one over the other. Abide, and wring from them what you can without getting involved. [+10 Fate points]
The servants know much [0] – They are everywhere, and they are all but invisible to the average noble. They would make acceptable pawns.
I think you're getting caught up in tropes, rather than practical results.We'd want to consider what we want in a close confidant: I'm thinking someone who get get around the palace unseen to do little 'favors' for us... or plant incriminating evidence against our enemies, and Lily is probably the easiest to do so.
Easier than getting a person who practices a niche craft that could explain away a great manner of irregular actions/object plantings/etc wherein the only person knowledgeable enough to potentially call them on their bluff... is their family member?We'd want to consider what we want in a close confidant: I'm thinking someone who get get around the palace unseen to do little 'favors' for us... or plant incriminating evidence against our enemies, and Lily is probably the easiest to do so.
And also expected - it's rather important to compare 'how much competency at the task I have in mind does this NPC have' against 'how likely are other NPCs to notice/pay attention to the NPC I choose to do my stuff'.This is a game of intrigue so a competent unobtrusive spy is worth her weigth in gold
I think you're getting caught up in tropes, rather than practical results.
That is - yes, the servants are generally those that can fade into the background in narratives that deal with the ruling peeps, and they do often get ignored/brushed over by said noble-types. This does make them more likely to be overlooked when they're snooping or whatnot... by the nobles. This does nothing to protect them from being noticed by their fellow servants - and most countries have a great and storied tradition of servant X selling out servant A to get further in the good graces of this or that person. I see no reason that wouldn't apply here. In a way, the servants themselves could be considered one of the more rigorous investigative groups, as 'what's that other servant doing now' is not only gossip to fill the hours, but also a possible means of elevating oneself and something to fear being ignorant of lest you be accused of being complicit. Even worse, there's plenty of historical examples of groups of servants being punished for the actions of the one that they hadn't fully noticed - ignorance of your fellow servants goings-on is disencentivized.
How, exactly, do you figure that?You are totally missing the point of us actively buying the loyalty of all the other servants here.
I'm curious how you think that doesn't apply at least as much to the other choices - I don't see any of the choices as having anything we can do something useful with now, rather than merely build groundwork for later. I don't see the maid-choice swiftly becoming a good spy/inflitrator for us, or the cook getting swayed into being a willing poisoner, or any of that.And while subjectivity having more 'range' that Chaser gives is nice... I'm not quite sure what we can do about it right now. She doesn't seem to be the type who would agree to create political intrigue
Sure - but which other options besides either Chaser even have a visible potential for having someone 'willing to do us a few favors' involved with them?...while having the groundskeeper willing to do us a few favor would be nice... there's nothing he can do that would probably dent our battle-build brother or help us attain the throne.
We'll just have to agree to disagree, as it seems clear you see far less potential complications making an easily overlooked maid transition into a snooper/spy without losing her overlooked-ness amongst the other servants than I do.So ya, I favor Turner over Chaser simply because Turner gives us more options in most situations other than those that would resort to drastic measures.
How, exactly, do you figure that?
I acknowledged that a particular choice (and implicitly by extension the other choices) did have merits, and only then went past that to highlight how it appears to me that the options with the highest total amount of possible freedom to roam about in the process of doing things for us are the most valuable, and point towards the options I feel most thoroughly possess this attribute.
So what point do you think I'm missing, given I've already acknowledged the value of maid-types, and via my argument for either Chaser implicitly acknowledged the value of the stable-hand - collectively, a majority of the options, I might add.
That is - yes, the servants are generally those that can fade into the background in narratives that deal with the ruling peeps, and they do often get ignored/brushed over by said noble-types. This does make them more likely to be overlooked when they're snooping or whatnot... by the nobles. This does nothing to protect them from being noticed by their fellow servants - and most countries have a great and storied tradition of servant X selling out servant A to get further in the good graces of this or that person. I see no reason that wouldn't apply here. In a way, the servants themselves could be considered one of the more rigorous investigative groups, as 'what's that other servant doing now' is not only gossip to fill the hours, but also a possible means of elevating oneself and something to fear being ignorant of lest you be accused of being complicit. Even worse, there's plenty of historical examples of groups of servants being punished for the actions of the one that they hadn't fully noticed - ignorance of your fellow servants goings-on is disencentivized.
I'm curious how you think that doesn't apply at least as much to the other choices - I don't see any of the choices as having anything we can do something useful with now, rather than merely build groundwork for later. I don't see the maid-choice swiftly becoming a good spy/inflitrator for us, or the cook getting swayed into being a willing poisoner, or any of that.
Sure - but which other options besides either Chaser even have a visible potential for having someone 'willing to do us a few favors' involved with them?
Because I don't see any.
We'll just have to agree to disagree, as it seems clear you see far less potential complications making an easily overlooked maid transition into a snooper/spy without losing her overlooked-ness amongst the other servants than I do.
Actually that's you goofing - my concern for loyalty is the other servants/maids around our chooseable maid/servant, not the maid (Ms. Turner) herself.Your disagree with the pick based on this argument:
Which I, validly, responded that since we are in the process of cementing the loyalty of the servants, the above isn't an issue.
So yes, you're missing the point of us buying their loyalty, when your argument is that they wouldn't be loyal ANYWAYS.
Fair enough - I obviously don't agree with this stance but hey, at least you articulated it.I see the maid choice being valid MUCH sooner than any other choice because A), with the loyalty of the other servants to cover for her, she's able to act with much less fear of discovery - things like spreading rumors about people we don't like, or finding out what other people are up to just via gossip or have Lily just work in a certain area of the palace; and B) we can't make any overt actions against anyone due to our (admittedly self-caused) lack of support within the palace, so we want to make sure that we have the most opportunities TO gain power - which means we won't be using anything the Chaser(s) can give anytime "until the time we can make those kinds of actions".
I think we have different definitions of 'overt' as well - to me, any action a potential minion's asked to take, even as simple as leaving a note for someone, is overt. I'm expecting initial minion returns to be largely based in passive benefits - what they overhear in the course of their job, what they see in the course of their work routes, that stuff. Which, again, comes back to my prioritization of whoever feels most mobile.So, at what point can we choose to make overt actions? Consider what it would take to, say, assassinate someone verses planting "evidence" that says they are not as trusted by the prince as they thought they were?
I don't know that I'd ever even vote to have a minion attempt to poison or otherwise kill someone, as I feel that such extreme levels of minion use aren't at all realistic to long games based on real life precedent/I'm somewhat biased against the storytelling tropes that paint such spywork as being more easily accomplished/more useful to one's goals than it really is.If we want to assassinate someone, we must have a method of killing and then have the person killed. With Jill, we might have a method of disposing the body or (if she somehow became a fanatical and devote follower) even a method of straight out killing someone (she does give a lot of options to kill someone). With Lily, we're looking more of either poison or ambushing (via telling Lily to lure them somewhere we prepared). Both have their advantages and disadvantages, but choosing Jill is the more confrontational choices that I feel we'd be avoiding until we can gain the loyalty of the guards in case they notice anything.
I'd certainly be interested in seeing the fallout of a vote to have a minion do something like that, provided it ever happens.Meanwhile, if we're doing the latter we could easily have Lily do it while it's much harder for Jill to do so it would require the target to be in an area that Jill works in (as it would be suspicious for her to wander inside the castle ground itself).
...You keep saying servants/all the other servants, here - why?^^^ Exactly why I said you're ignoring the entire point of gaining the loyalty of the servants.