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Tech advice requested
- Thread starter doomlord9
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Seclorum
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Yeah. There is nothing wrong with using a bit older tech.
Especially right now when the generational difference between Devil's Canyon and Skylake is around 10% IPC, and real world difference might be seconds for most tasks.
So a lot of people are still rocking older hardware simply because they dont really see much point in upgrading when the differences are so small.
Heck, I'm still rocking an original i7 920 from way back when they were first launched.
edale
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Tigerdirect.com is a good site to shop around for this stuff on. They run a lot of sales and rebates so you'll sometimes find stuff there pretty cheap. Once or twice I've been looking for something and found a better version cheaper (example, looking for a 750W power supply, find it for $80, but a 900W supply with comparable features is on sale for $70). Just watch out that what you're getting is new and not refurbished.
doomlord9
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Before I start purchasing this has caught my eye.
Is there a reason for using g-skill instead of swapping to a different corsair one? I ask because corsair is the only brand I actually recognize and have heard is good.
Also, the 'DDR3-2133' looks to be it's speed is 2133, whatever that means, and I was wondering if that was locked as per the processor and/or motherboard or if it could go higher and make it that much faster.
Is there a reason for using g-skill instead of swapping to a different corsair one? I ask because corsair is the only brand I actually recognize and have heard is good.
Also, the 'DDR3-2133' looks to be it's speed is 2133, whatever that means, and I was wondering if that was locked as per the processor and/or motherboard or if it could go higher and make it that much faster.
edale
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I'm a bit out of date on the different RAM technologies, so I can't tell you the speed of DDR3-2133 without looking it up, but some basic info:
There are several limiting factors to speed/performance.
You have the:
-CPU
-RAM
-System Bus (this is, without going into too much detail, the path data follows on the MB between the CPU and RAM)
Each of these has it's own frequency (the number of clock-cycles per second) and throughput (how much data is transmitted in each clock-cycle). The trick is that all of them operate at the frequency and throughput of the slowest component; so when designing a system, you want those figures to match for optimal performance. That's one of the reasons MBs and CPUs (and sometimes RAM as well) are frequently bundled together, and why you typically need to upgrade your MB if you're upgrading your CPU.
So basically, you can get better/faster RAM, but it'll only operate at the capabilities on the CPU & System Bus, so you won't see an increase in performance.
doomlord9
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Cost mainly. The Corsair kits have a premium attached to them and G-Skill is a fine manufacturer.
Basically to get the ram to run at spec, you go into the Bios and tell it to use the XMP profile embedded in the kit.
It used to be, that back in the day. Everything was interconnected through a Front Side Bus, so when you overclocked, you monkeyed around with the clock timing for that bus.
But over the years they have been decoupling things from a unified clock architecture.
I picked a 1600 kit because it gives you a little extra bandwidth without breaking the bank but it's not crazy like some kits out there that are rated for 3000 to 4000!
Seclorum
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Helpful Tips for building:
1. Always Test your build outside the case before you go for final assembly. The boxes things come in work as temporary platforms to set things down on. Reason being, you dont want the added hastle of getting everything inside the case and then finding out something is DOA.
2. Maintain Static Dissipation protocol. This was previously discussed.
3. Some things require a bit more force to connect than may be expected at first glance. Things like power connectors especially. These things are typically reinforced and designed for this.
4. Read the manuals. Especially the Motherboard Manual, it has by far the most pertinent information for what connector goes where.
5. A common problem is getting the power switch wires hooked up, They frequently dont identify the orientation of the connector so it's a common problem where you hook it up and go to turn the system on with the button on the case, and weird things or nothing happens.
6. The various wires that connect the Front panel can be a real bitch to work with, they are almost universally tiny little fuckers that have to be individually slipped onto a cluster of pins on the motherboard. Very Fiddly.
1. Always Test your build outside the case before you go for final assembly. The boxes things come in work as temporary platforms to set things down on. Reason being, you dont want the added hastle of getting everything inside the case and then finding out something is DOA.
2. Maintain Static Dissipation protocol. This was previously discussed.
3. Some things require a bit more force to connect than may be expected at first glance. Things like power connectors especially. These things are typically reinforced and designed for this.
4. Read the manuals. Especially the Motherboard Manual, it has by far the most pertinent information for what connector goes where.
5. A common problem is getting the power switch wires hooked up, They frequently dont identify the orientation of the connector so it's a common problem where you hook it up and go to turn the system on with the button on the case, and weird things or nothing happens.
6. The various wires that connect the Front panel can be a real bitch to work with, they are almost universally tiny little fuckers that have to be individually slipped onto a cluster of pins on the motherboard. Very Fiddly.
doomlord9
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Since I'll be edging over 2k anyway due to forcing it from Newegg and Amazon as much as possible, would it be worth boosting the RAM speed any or would that be one more negligible difference I won't notice without using a sensor/tester?
Haven't done this before, guess I was always lucky. How does that work with the CPU fan attached though, especially with the Noctura being so damn big? Wouldn't that make it insanely difficult to reach the spots where the screws attach the MB to the case?
These are fairly standard for tech work, there is no 'I know what I'm doing, I don't need a manual' for stuff like this.
Haven't had that happen yet either. We'll see.
Oh for fucks sake, you means they haven't resolved that fucking thing yet? Fucking hell, for most of my builds I have just ignored the front slots entirely for that exact reason and was hoping that in the last decade they had standardized it like they should.
Seclorum
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Anymore, ram speeds are pretty much irrelevant outside of very specific usage and testing scenarios.
It's not really worth trying to push for anything much faster.
With an ATX board you have generally 9 screws in a 3
pattern across the board. It's really not that difficult to screw the motherboard down. Dont forget the standoffs that come with the case! The case's manual should tell you which holes to screw them down into.Also, if you really need too, you can dismount the Noctua and then reattach it when you have the board down in the case. Just make sure to clean off the old Thermal paste, and reapply new paste when you do this. A simple coffee filter and some Isoprpropyl Alcohol will take the old stuff right off.
Some motherboard MFG's supply a little connector you can mount the wires too then it just plugs them all in at once to the mobo. It's not very common, which sucks.
edale
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... I haven't had to glace at the manuals for anything save the front-panel connectors (and didn't need to do that for 2 of them since the connections were printed on the MB) for the last 3 computers I built... Pretty much all the wires can only plug into one or two places on the MB (and there's usually printing on the MB telling you which is primary and which is secondary), and the ones can can plug into multiple you can tell by things like missing pins or the number of pins (and, of course, the printing on the MB)...
Granted I've been working with cheaper MBs and components, not gaming setups, so not exactly high-end stuff, and I do have a solid technical background, but still...
Seclorum
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It's useful to look at the manual for the motherboard, because sometimes you want to just use specific IC for things, like making sure you plug your hard drives into the Intel Chipset SATA ports as opposed to sticking them into the ports for the 3rd party controller the MFG slapped on to add more ports.
Also, if something goes wrong. Beep Code charts are invaluable.
edale
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Aren't the Chipset SATA ports usually a different color from the 3rd part ones? always been the case on the ones I saw...
And yes, Beep-code is why I always save my manuals, but that's not relevant for PC assembly unless you mess up.
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But they generally dont have labels on the board, so figuring out which ones go to what controller can be a pain without the manual.
doomlord9
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Oh fun. I work night shift and the people I was planning to receive the packages during the day are going hunting for a week and half soon, so that's another 2-ish weeks until I can actually order the parts.
Unless there is a way to tell the delivery service to hold it in the nearest distribution office and only inform me that it has arrived. I really don't want to risk the delivery man just leaving it on the doorstep because I'm asleep.
Unless there is a way to tell the delivery service to hold it in the nearest distribution office and only inform me that it has arrived. I really don't want to risk the delivery man just leaving it on the doorstep because I'm asleep.
edale
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Most delivery services, such as Fed-Ex and UPS, will hold packages at the closest location if you contact them with the tracking number and other relevant info about the package while it's still in transit. Never had to do it myself, but know it's possible.
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I've generally had FedEx only ever hold packages, they never leave anything but a note at my house.
UPS just does whatever they can to get rid of the package, up to and including giving it to neighbors... >.<
edale
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http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/shipping/time/service/value_added/hold_pickup.html
http://www.fedex.com/us/services/hold_at_location_overview.html
Both companies have the option. The delivery ends at the FedEx/UPS store, then you go to the store and pick it up. And you can have the delivery switched to that option after the package has already been mailed out.
doomlord9
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Hmmm....maybe. At least I know it's an option now.
Oh yeah, another minor tech question I've been debating for awhile.
Gamepads. Some games just need a controller to play right.
Which is a good one to get? I've heard something about X-Box controllers just needing a USB adapter to be plug and play but haven't seen much conclusive evidence for that. Haven't looked very hard either, hence why I'm being lazy and asking here.
Oh yeah, another minor tech question I've been debating for awhile.
Gamepads. Some games just need a controller to play right.
Which is a good one to get? I've heard something about X-Box controllers just needing a USB adapter to be plug and play but haven't seen much conclusive evidence for that. Haven't looked very hard either, hence why I'm being lazy and asking here.
Seclorum
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Xbox controllers are pretty much what most devs who implement gamepad support or requirements use.
Official controllers are good, and you can use an off the shelf wireless Xbox controller with a USB adapter dongle thingy. Several MFG's like MadCatz also sell straight up wired variants that dont need a dongle.
edale
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The original Xbox's controllers actually use standard USB to connect the controller to the system. It takes a matter of 2 min to splice together a Xbox controller cord and a USB cord to make an adapter (speaking as someone who's made dozens, I mod original Xboxes in my spare time).
http://sourceforge.net/projects/ds3tool/
That program is everything you need to get your PS3 controllers working on a computer. Install the drivers (one click from in-program), plug in the PS3 controller through it's micro-USB port (with a micro-USB -> USB-A adapter, same one you plug it into the PS3 system with), and you're pretty much good to go.
It also has drivers for Xbox 360 controllers, but I don't own a 360, so haven't tested that part out.
https://github.com/Ryochan7/antimicro
A useful tool for mapping gamepad input to keyboard keys, to give you gamepad support for games that don't support it natively (works great with RPG Maker games.. because for some reason the "native" gamepad support in RPG maker games never works for me....).
Mu-Sensei
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I have used both XBOX360 and PS4 Gamepads without issues. Both work wired and wireless (XBOX need a receiver for that) practically flawless.
I personally like DS4 more than Xbox. but that is just me. If you have trouble with it on a game, just download DS4 Xinput Tool and set it up. DS4 will then work as a XBOX controller at least as far as Windows is concerned.
I personally like DS4 more than Xbox. but that is just me. If you have trouble with it on a game, just download DS4 Xinput Tool and set it up. DS4 will then work as a XBOX controller at least as far as Windows is concerned.
edale
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Well, when you come right down to it, if you're talking about gamepad functionality on almost any system, the KADE+ bares mentioning.
http://kadevice.com/kade-miniconsole/
Some of the kickstarter backers are getting their stuff this month, but it looks like most are getting theirs in October, with pre-orders opening soon.
For those who have no idea what this is... KADE is an opensource arcade controller board (basically, input from an arcade stick on one end, output to one of several systems on the other end, can even output to android). KADE+ is an upgraded KADE unit, with (among other upgrades) a USB RetroPad Adapter built in.
The USB RetroPad Adapter is an opensource adapter that lets you plug almost any retro-gamepad into quite the number of systems (personally, I use my USB RetroPad Adapter to plug a stock N64 controller into my Xbox for N64 emulation, though it's kinda hard to find them atm, which is why I'm pointing to the KADE+ rather than it).
The only downside is that apart from some of the old Sega systems (which already natively use DB9 connectors), you need to make an adapter cable to connect whichever system's gamepad to the DB9 controller input on the unit (or just splice the DB9 connector directly onto the controller's cord, though I prefer turning controller extension cables into adapters, so I can still use the controllers with the original systems).
http://kadevice.com/kade-miniconsole/
Some of the kickstarter backers are getting their stuff this month, but it looks like most are getting theirs in October, with pre-orders opening soon.
For those who have no idea what this is... KADE is an opensource arcade controller board (basically, input from an arcade stick on one end, output to one of several systems on the other end, can even output to android). KADE+ is an upgraded KADE unit, with (among other upgrades) a USB RetroPad Adapter built in.
The USB RetroPad Adapter is an opensource adapter that lets you plug almost any retro-gamepad into quite the number of systems (personally, I use my USB RetroPad Adapter to plug a stock N64 controller into my Xbox for N64 emulation, though it's kinda hard to find them atm, which is why I'm pointing to the KADE+ rather than it).
The only downside is that apart from some of the old Sega systems (which already natively use DB9 connectors), you need to make an adapter cable to connect whichever system's gamepad to the DB9 controller input on the unit (or just splice the DB9 connector directly onto the controller's cord, though I prefer turning controller extension cables into adapters, so I can still use the controllers with the original systems).
doomlord9
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SO, another small question.
Is there any way to get a drastically noticeable boost from my graphics card without doubling the price?
I was reading through the setups and the 'midrange price performer' caught my eye. Is it worth it to spend a little extra on a better graphics card with the setup I have or should I be content with what is set already and wait for a few generations to pass before upgrading?
Is there any way to get a drastically noticeable boost from my graphics card without doubling the price?
I was reading through the setups and the 'midrange price performer' caught my eye. Is it worth it to spend a little extra on a better graphics card with the setup I have or should I be content with what is set already and wait for a few generations to pass before upgrading?
Seclorum
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You can overclock your card, but really that's the only way to get more out of a card for your dollar.
And really by the time the 390 starts showing it's age, there will be heaps of new cards out with significantly better tech underneath them.
If you can hold off till late next year, both primary IHV's (Nvidia and AMD) will have entire new ranges of cards on sale with much better tech than is available today.
But that's the eternal waiting game. There is always something bigger and better on the horizon.
doomlord9
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Yeah, I used the wrong words.
I didn't mean pull more performance out of the current graphics card, I meant could it be upgraded to a better one with a drastically noticeable increase in performance without also drastically increasing the price. Like this one is pretty good at $350 but this $450 one will give you very noticeable performance over the other, or do I have to get into the $600-$800 range before I see any real discernible boost in performance.
I dunno, I might just be trying to minmax and stalling for some stupid reason. Want to get this as right as I can because it's probably not gonna happen again any time soon.
edale
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This.
Honestly, your best bet for cheaper/better graphic performance at the moment would be to just buy a cheap basic graphics card, or use the MB's on-board video (if that MB has it), for now; then wait until Black Friday/Cyber Monday to buy your permanent video card. You might even find some good Crossfire/SLI cards @buy-one-get-one (I have seen that before, but not sure if they were good or crappy cards).
A lot of places advertise their Black Friday/Cyber Monday sales a week or two in advance; so you can check up on best graphics cards sales, and make sure they're properly compatible with your setup before buying one.
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Seclorum
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doomlord9 It's as edale said,
Pretty much the only way to do that is wait for a sale.
My personal opinion for right now, would be get something cheap to get you going, and save some money on the side for end of next year. There are significant advances in GPU tech coming and it's all on the cusp of a new API storm (DX12 and Vulkan) which let Devs extract more performance.
Pretty much the only way to do that is wait for a sale.
My personal opinion for right now, would be get something cheap to get you going, and save some money on the side for end of next year. There are significant advances in GPU tech coming and it's all on the cusp of a new API storm (DX12 and Vulkan) which let Devs extract more performance.
