What would you like to see in a Fiction.live alternative?

[loulloko]

Hello there. I'm making this to gauge interest in a fiction.live (akun) alternative I have been thinking of making for some time now.

For those of you who, for some reason, clicked on this thread with no idea about what akun is, it's a website for hosting and reading quests live, where the QM writes and the readers vote and roll dice in real-time. Just imagine Twitch for quests.

What most interests me is what major and minor gripes you have with akun; what features you would like to see, and what you'd like changed. My vision for the prospective website is to offer more reader-story interaction to engage and immerse the reader in the quest while making the QM's job as easy as possible.

Here are some features I'm considering adding:

Customizable Quest System

Spoiler

If you've been to akun, you know some QMs love their formulas. The idea here is to make something similar to Scratch (which is a programming language for children, very easy to pick up), where the QM can set up their variables, create interactions between them, and then display it in a immersive way.

In a danmachi fic, for example, I could see this being used to level up the falna or simulate dungeon dives. By itself it is almost just a fancy calculator (if you wanna be reductive), but I plan for it to interact with the other features, giving the QM even more customizability.

Customizable Quest Settings

Spoiler

You can consider this an extension of the customizable quest system, though this part is somewhat cosmetic.

The idea is that the QM can set up scenes, that can be triggered by the quest system, for example, the main character goes to a pub: Suddenly, the page's background becomes a pub, pub music starts playing, the map changes to pub, and pub stuff starts happening.

Quest Pouch

Spoiler

What is in the pouch, you ask? It depends. I imagine this as a set of tools for immersive interaction by the reader with the quest, what actually is in it is set by the QM.

I mainly thought of this as an immersive way for the reader to roll the dice (instead of typing /roll 1d100 or something) but it should have interactions with the quest system.

Inventory

Spoiler

Another problem I see often is big ass lists used as inventories. Ain't nobody got time to read that. The idea is to have a visual inventory system, with lots of preset images for various common item types, while allowing the QM to upload their own.

Besides looking cool, it should incentivize loot goblins make the use of consumables more immersive and of course, interact with the quest system.

Map

Spoiler

This is admitedly the least well developed feature idea here, feel free to send suggestions.

Yet another thing I think should get more use is maps, my theory is that they're too much of a bother to make and constantly update, this feature aims to change that.

For generation, the QM can upload a map, use the Map generator, or both. The map generator is simple, the QM choses a color and paints the area to be represented in the map, which then uses some computer magic to shape itself in a map-like contour. The QM will be able to add points of interest, biomes, locations of people, yadayada, map stuff.

The map is a Quest Pouch tool, and of course will interact with the Quest System, meaning it should update itself based on triggers.

All the features are optional, and I'm thinking of making a simplified mode for all of them. Although the features are supposed to make the QMs job easier, after writing all this, I think I might need to rethink some of them lol.

So, that's that. I know it is very ambitious and some of the features might not be feasible, but I think it is worth a try. Please feel free to criticise my ideas (thought they sound cool to me, I'm not the one who might be using them) and suggest your own.

 

[Rin]

Akun has this problem where readers can just drop discussion and votes on the main body of a story, without that part being properly delineated. You can be half a paragraph into reading someone's idea before you realise that it's not actually part of the story. Having proper 'breaks' with a visible start and a finish of the area where readers can interact would be nice.

More easily integrated payment options and tools would be nice too, so that authors could be incentivised or readers could highlight their votes or something. (The downside of this of course is that with payment processors comes potential censorship of the platform when they catch wind, but I think there are a few that don't mind smut.)

A proper search function.

Proper moderation tools and anti-spam features for QM's so brigading or botting or spamming quests becomes more difficult.

Honestly, I think these basic, fundamental features are more necessary than the gameified systems you've mentioned above. Having a site that actually works and is comfortable to use is really important. (Not that I don't think they're good ideas or anythig, as I'd enjoy being able to interact in new and interesting ways with the quests I like, I just think they should come after everything else).

I'd also like some kind of reputation systems, or author-reader interaction in that form. Something like a counter which shows how often your suggestion has been chosen by the author. Something to dicincentivise 'troll' votes where people just constantly suggest things like 'kill everyone and rape the bodies' or spam racial slurs when the QM asks readers to decide what the MC wants for dinner.

 

[loulloko]

Akun has this problem where readers can just drop discussion and votes on the main body of a story, without that part being properly delineated. You can be half a paragraph into reading someone's idea before you realise that it's not actually part of the story. Having proper 'breaks' with a visible start and a finish of the area where readers can interact would be nice.

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I know what you mean, that is very disruptive when you just want to read. (Though I think, they can be pretty funny.)

More easily integrated payment options and tools would be nice too, so that authors could be incentivised

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You are not the first person to suggest something like this, as a brokie, I didn't even know about this problem but in retrospect, it is obviously not a straightforward process. I'm not sure how to best implement this system, though a Patreon-like system has been suggested.

readers could highlight their votes or something

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Not sure what you mean here, I'm assuming priority votes?

Honestly, I think these basic, fundamental features are more necessary than the gameified systems you've mentioned above. Having a site that actually works and is comfortable to use is really important. (Not that I don't think they're good ideas or anythig, as I'd enjoy being able to interact in new and interesting ways with the quests I like, I just think they should come after everything else).

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I absolutely agree, despite starting this project exclusively because of the features, there is no point in having them if you can't use the site properly.

I'd also like some kind of reputation systems, or author-reader interaction in that form. Something like, a counter which shows how often your suggestion has been chosen by the author.

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I like that idea, when I reach out to some authors I'll get some input on this, the +MUSK suggestions stopped being funny a long time ago lol.

 

[Rin]

Not sure what you mean here, I'm assuming priority votes?

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I was thinking along the lines of allowing you can pay to make your suggestion or vote have a gold border or something to draw attention to it. Like a superchat on twitch. Not more important than any other suggestion, just easily seen. Maybe you could apply it to *other* people's votes and suggestions and posts as well, if you agree with them? SV's gilded post system is a good example of a similar system.

 

[loulloko]

I was thinking along the lines of allowing you can pay to make your suggestion or vote have a gold border or something to draw attention to it. Like a superchat on twitch. Not more important than any other suggestion, just easily seen. Maybe you could apply it to *other* people's votes and suggestions and posts as well, if you agree with them? SV's gilded post system is a good example of a similar system.

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Gotcha. I thought of something similar when you brought up reputation systems.

 

[Ranmabomb]

So the biggest issues with fiction.live is that it is a buggy mess. But there aren't really any other alternatives for live writing. I guess you could setup something like a google doc,or an actual stream? But an actual stream pretty much requires audio which is a big step in regards to privacy and such.

Forums are great for quests, but things pretty much have to be play by post.

You gave a lot of cool ideas, but Something like an easy programming language that is we capable isn't really a direct competitor to fiction.live it is something completely different.

It would be closer to making a visual novel or maybe at the closest to running an TTRPG. I am interested in seeing how that might develop. But the cool ideas you have don't seem like they would make running a live quest much easier.

I could see a JavaScript based online visual novel tool doing well. But that is a completely different product type as well.

Except maybe the map support? And at that point you are making something closer to a VTT, but with public observer, screening,etc.

The inventory system seems cool though.
Having a way to present info that is better than a straights dense list is nice. QQ has stuff like that.

There are some qms who use a lot of those number features, but most of those I know of don't use a ton of formulas there?

But search, and having a live timer/browse feature that isn't buggy is important. Ans working just as well on mobile as PC. The DM/PM feature also doesn't work so having that work would be a wing up.

In short, if you have a corr that works better even if it is simpler, I would be happy to switch.

 

[loulloko]

You gave a lot of cool ideas, but Something like an easy programming language that is we capable isn't really a direct competitor to fiction.live it is something completely different.
It would be closer to making a visual novel or maybe at the closest to running an TTRPG. I am interested in seeing how that might develop.

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I see your point, I had considered not focusing on the questing aspect (I still will though). I also think I got lost in the sauce lol. Back to your point, some authors like to do prep work, not everything in a quest is made on the fly, after all.

For those who do, I'd still like to present interesting options. I don't believe it's initially gonna be a widely used system, but I figure if I make the site in general enjoyable to use, AND make the features intuitive enough for people to try them, I think all it would take is a single good quest using them becoming popular for people to adapt some of it to their own stories.

They're just optional storytelling aides anyway.

But the cool ideas you have don't seem like they would make running a live quest much easier.

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As a reader, I can't argue with that, I have reached out to some authors to get their input.

But search, and having a live timer/browse feature that isn't buggy is important.

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Agreed, the lack of ways to find stuff is one of my main gripes with fic.live

The DM/PM feature also doesn't work so having that work would be a wing up.

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I didn't even know those didn't work. Guess I gotta contact authors some other way lol.

In short, if you have a corr that works better even if it is simpler, I would be happy to switch.

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Well, I will only add stuff once the foundation is solid, launching something that works worse than what we already have would be just shameful.

 

[Rin]

I didn't even know those didn't work. Guess I gotta contact authors some other way lol.

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There are so many things that don't work we could be here all day recounting them. Basically, if your website can just provide the basic functionality that fiction.live says it provides, you're already head and shoulders above it in usablity.

 

[Ranmabomb]

In terms of actual features, a vote timeline feature for GMs would be nice. That logged when votes happened. Not essential but a nice extra, and other analytics in general if they aren't too creepy.

Royal road has some cool tools an analytics an is worth checking out for a reference. I love their search feature. AO3s has reallt good search, ui, and reading experience.

Well DMS work a little better on desktop than mobile but it is still hit or miss. If you are able to send the message, they might get it. I got a message once but 95%/of the time the interface is too glitches for me to be able to send a message.

 

[loulloko]

In terms of actual features, a vote timeline feature for GMs would be nice. That logged when votes happened. Not essential but a nice extra, and other analytics in general if they aren't too creepy.

Royal road has some cool tools an analytics an is worth checking out for a reference. I love their search feature. AO3s has reallt good search, ui, and reading experience.

Well DMS work a little better on desktop than mobile but it is still hit or miss. If you are able to send the message, they might get it. I got a message once but 95%/of the time the interface is too glitches for me to be able to send a message.

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Thanks for the recs. Funny you should mention it, I was actually thinking of AO3 for the search filtering.

Well DMS work a little better on desktop than mobile but it is still hit or miss. If you are able to send the message, they might get it. I got a message once but 95%/of the time the interface is too glitches for me to be able to send a message.

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Yeah, I went to look at my sent messages and they opened up like I was editing a quest. Some weird stuff going on there.

 

[Rin]

Thanks for the recs. Funny you should mention it, I was actually thinking of AO3 for the search filtering. Yeah, I went to look at my sent messages and they opened up like I was editing a quest. Some weird stuff going on there.

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The best search and filtering system I'm aware of is Mangadex's. Not only can you search for keywords and terms and authors and so-on, but it also has a really robust tag search system which allows you to customise *exactly* what you want (and don't want) to see with a few clicks.

(Green means you want the work to contain those tags, red means you want it to exclude works with those tags)

The tags aren't user-generated, so you don't end up with Ao3's cancerous system of infinite useless tags, and there's a limit on the number of tags an uploader can apply to the work, so they can't just put every single tag on a work so that it shows up in every search (another thing that happens on Ao3). It's a very elegant system, and I've not seen better yet.

It does mean that you'd have to identify and include actually useful tags for authors and readers, but you can always add more as time goes on if anyone requests them. A bit of work, yes, but worth it for a decent search function.

 

[loulloko]

The best search and filtering system I'm aware of is Mangadex's. Not only can you search for keywords and terms and authors and so-on, but it also has a really robust tag search system which allows you to customise *exactly* what you want (and don't want) to see with a few clicks.

(Green means you want the work to contain those tags, red means you want it to exclude works with those tags)

The tags aren't user-generated, so you don't end up with Ao3's cancerous system of infinite useless tags, and there's a limit on the number of tags an uploader can apply to the work, so they can't just put every single tag on a work so that it shows up in every search (another thing that happens on Ao3). It's a very elegant system, and I've not seen better yet.

It does mean that you'd have to identify and include actually useful tags for authors and readers, but you can always add more as time goes on if anyone requests them. A bit of work, yes, but worth it for a decent search function.

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This is pretty cool, it reminds me of Scribblehub and other such sites. Personally, I enjoy custom tags when they are used as inside jokes, but AO3 is the perfect example of why that is not a good idea. Even QQ has some completely redundant tags.

 

[ProphetVoid]

Interesting ideas. The Customizable Quest System seems intriguing, but of course I could only speak on it after I actually see it in action. Customizable Quest Settings sounds cool, but also a bit niche in the example. Similar to the Map feature, it seems more dependent on the type of quests that are original in their world, rather than fanfiction. Which definitely exists, though I'd argue is less popular and numerous as the others.

I very much like the Quest Pouch idea with users being able to just click a button in order to roll. Unfortunately I think it'd be severely limited or rarely used due to nat 1d100 or 1d20s not being the norm a lot of times. Usually with maluses or additions to go along with them after a few chapters into a quest. A fix for that could be to have the QM dictate what the reader's roll button will put out by being able to manually set that, but as I have no experience with code, I really can't say.

I agree with Ranma when they brought up the idea of adding analytics. It's definitely motivating to look over and see a high viewer count, if you're pretty sure it's been bugged out. Rin also had some good ideas about a potential tagging system, and as a shameless shill myself, I'm wholeheartedly interested in potential payment plan systems, although I can see how that could potentially go wrong in several ways.

Personally what I would be mostly interested in is a bit more basic in features. Such as a toggleable dark or light mode. QQ has a pretty damn good one from what I can see. Being able to change font text color sounds small, but does a lot for a reader. Another feature I'd be interested in that has been said before is of course better chat protection in order to stop spam or particularly annoying chatters, etc.

Now there's also being able to post anonymously which I think should be discussed. Personally I don't care too strongly on it, but I do think it's pretty integral for a site to reel people in. If they can't interact or engage fully, they'll probably just drop the site altogether for something more easily accessible, and if word of mouth is the main way you gain traction to the new website, then it could easily become dead in the water due to it. And if there's no audience, then there's no writers either.

Eitherway, interested in seeing how it goes.

 

[Selias]

It'd be nice if you could get alerts for individual stories instead of getting constantly bombarded by the author's other quests that you don't give a shit about.

 

[loulloko]

Meant to reply sooner but the site updated. smh my head.

Unfortunately I think it'd be severely limited or rarely used due to nat 1d100 or 1d20s not being the norm a lot of times. Usually with maluses or additions to go along with them after a few chapters into a quest. A fix for that could be to have the QM dictate what the reader's roll button will put out by being able to manually set that, but as I have no experience with code, I really can't say.

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I thought I mentioned this somewhere (probably forgot to transcribe from my notes), but the pouch dice will be on a per-quest basis, set up by the QM. I haven't quite solidified how I want the maluses and bonuses to interact with the other aspects but it shouldn't be worse than what we have in Akun.

I agree with Ranma when they brought up the idea of adding analytics. It's definitely motivating to look over and see a high viewer count, if you're pretty sure it's been bugged out. Rin also had some good ideas about a potential tagging system

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User experience is a big focus for me on this project, so this is definitely happening.

and as a shameless shill myself, I'm wholeheartedly interested in potential payment plan systems, although I can see how that could potentially go wrong in several ways.

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I've been seeing a lot of this and will probably implement something after the rest of the app is done (with user feedback). It might help me out too seeing as I was planning on mostly hosting it out of my pocket lol.

Now there's also being able to post anonymously which I think should be discussed. Personally I don't care too strongly on it, but I do think it's pretty integral for a site to reel people in. If they can't interact or engage fully, they'll probably just drop the site altogether for something more easily accessible, and if word of mouth is the main way you gain traction to the new website, then it could easily become dead in the water due to it. And if there's no audience, then there's no writers either.

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Yes, it never crossed my mind to disallow anons, they are my people.

It'd be nice if you could get alerts for individual stories instead of getting constantly bombarded by the author's other quests that you don't give a shit about.

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Dude, 100%. Why would anyone think that was a good idea?

 

[Ranmabomb]

Well j think being able to follow stories and authors is a cool idea. Like if you want o be notified about any new quests they make. Or just if a particular one updates/goes live.