People are using AI but not disclosing it. How do you detect it ?

[NumberSix]

The hostile attack on people using AI in this exact thread is proof positive that most people will not admit to using it in fear of ridicule.

 

[GatoArc]

The hostile attack on people using AI in this exact thread is proof positive that most people will not admit to using it in fear of ridicule.

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"Hostile attack" You, amongst others are in an anti-AI thread about AI usage disclosure, constantly arguing against people who wish for nothing more than to avoid AI stories. If you see people being vocal against AI, it is only due to your own behavior.

The scope of the thread is AI usage disclosure, yet people cannot help but glorify AI usage, and defend the UNETHICAL use of AI (that being undisclosed AI stories).

I get it, you amongst others have a different opinion than me in regards to AI, but let's have some self reflection here. If I went to a pro-AI thread and acted the way you people are acting in this thread, do you think that won't have any effect on the discussion?

 

[Lightbringer]

"Hostile attack" You, amongst others are in an anti-AI thread about AI usage disclosure, constantly arguing against people who wish for nothing more than to avoid AI stories. If you see people being vocal against AI, it is only due to your own behavior.

The scope of the thread is AI usage disclosure, yet people cannot help but glorify AI usage, and defend the UNETHICAL use of AI (that being undisclosed AI stories).

I get it, you amongst others have a different opinion than me in regards to AI, but let's have some self reflection here. If I went to a pro-AI thread and acted the way you people are acting in this thread, do you think that won't have any effect on the discussion?

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Well, when people decide to try to shape the forum's policy to authorize a hostile attack, then you will see the crowd in favor of civility arguing against it.

Also no. AI usage might be lazy or tell that the person don't trust their own writing, but it isn't unethical. If AI usage is unethical, so it is photography, 3D modeling and others.
They are doing it easy in computer and machines instead of BLEEDING their fingers like every 'true artist'.

 

[GatoArc]

Also no. AI usage might be lazy or tell that the person don't trust their own writing, but it isn't unethical. If AI usage is unethical, so it is photography, 3D modeling and others.
They are doing it easy in computer and machines instead of BLEEDING their fingers like every 'true artist'.

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Dude come on, I even placed it in parenthesis of what I considered to be unethical AI usage. This is the 2nd time you've done me dirty.

Well, when people decide to try to shape the forum's policy to authorize a hostile attack, then you will see the crowd in favor of civility arguing against it.

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This is fiction. No one here is doing that, you invented a scenario in your head and ran with it.

 

[Shaper47]

How do you prove that a story is AI ? I personally just look at the tempo and punctuation. Also the usage of em dashes is a sure sign but not a definitive one. AI stories have a certain measured way of writing. It takes a lot of time to move from one scene to another

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It can be kinda hard at first due to the it seeming similar to that of non English speakers having a go at writing.

Really the fact that the writing doesn't improve is the biggest tell. Normal writers get better over time while Ai stays just as crappy as it was at the beginning.

Truth though it's hard to prove it. God I wish people were just fucking honest about it.

Really is honesty that much too ask for?

Most of people's complaints about Ai slop is that it's not tagged as such.

 

[xihute]

"Hostile attack" You, amongst others are in an anti-AI thread about AI usage disclosure, constantly arguing against people who wish for nothing more than to avoid AI stories. If you see people being vocal against AI, it is only due to your own behavior.

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This isn't an "anti-AI thread".

If you want an "anti-AI thread" create it, name it explicitly "anti-AI thread" or "only ranting about use of AI" and you will have one.

I'm loath to advise that, as there are already multiple similar threads about AI, but it is better than getting offended that people have the gall to have different opinions.

 

[GatoArc]

This isn't an "anti-AI thread".

If you want an "anti-AI thread" create it, name it explicitly "anti-AI thread" or "only ranting about use of AI" and you will have one.

I'm loath to advise that, as there are already multiple similar threads about AI, but it is better than getting offended that people have the gall to have different opinions.

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Let's stop being obtuse, it certainly isn't an AI positive thread. It is about avoiding the usage of it.

Look I'm not going to argue semantics. I don't have a problem with different opinions, as I've stated multiple times, however there is that and then having the gall of dismissing the entire thread as an AI hate thread by claiming people are hostile/attacking when most of the people arguing in here have been glorifying AI and defending this unethical utilization of AI (that being undisclosed AI stories).

People have a right to air their opinions of AI after such a blatant 1-sided glorification.

 

[The Radiance's Follower]

The hostile attack on people using AI in this exact thread is proof positive that most people will not admit to using it in fear of ridicule.

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Don't care. If people are insulting "the author" report the comment and the mods will ban the person. If they fear ridicule so much then they better go do something else, beginner writers also fear ridicule yet post their work no matter how bad it.

By not admitting that you are using AI, you are forcing people to read something they don't want. Lying by omission is still lying.

This isn't an "anti-AI thread".

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Yep. I don't care about what people do in their own time. I just don't want to be misled into reading something a computer made.

People who don't disclose they are using AI in their "work" are being intentionally unethical and wasting my and other people time.

I've never commented "is this AI" or anything like that under anyone's story. Because it would be a waste of time.

 

[Shaper47]

Yep. I don't care about what people do in their own time. I just don't want to be misled into reading something a computer made.

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Personally I put it under qq's kinkshaming policy.

People's own taste is their own business, some people like tea others coco, some like bananas other cherries and peaches and some like both.

If it's not their cup of tea that's fine, they don't have to drink it and that's their choice.

If I prefer to be dry most of the time then that's my choice.

Not revealing Ai in this metaphor would be sitting down for a meal only to find out after you already have your mouth full that it's not chocolate your eating or lemonade your drinking*. The taste is not appreciated.

*No kinkshaming of Watersports or Scat intended

 

[xihute]

Let's stop being obtuse, it certainly isn't an AI positive thread. It is about avoiding the usage of it.

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Yes, it's an AI-neutral thread.
No, if you want an anti-AI thread, name it explicitly so. I'm not going to adjust to some unstated, assumed rules like "only negative opinions about AI use are acceptable".

The thread is called: "People are using AI but not disclosing it. How do you detect it ?", not "People are using AI but not disclosing it. Why you hate it?", or "People are using AI but not disclosing it. Why they're scum?"

People have a right to air their opinions of AI after such a blatant 1-sided glorification.

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They have the right to do so, that's what I told you. It doesn't stop being 1-sided if it's your side.

The right to air opinions doesn't mean that people must accept and agree with it.

Don't care. If people are insulting "the author" report the comment and the mods will ban the person. If they fear ridicule so much then they better go do something else, beginner writers also fear ridicule yet post their work no matter how bad it.

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I've seen this stance before, and I disagree. If you don't want "unlabeled AI fiction" you should be against that. If insults towards authors over AI use are a reason (it may be, it may be not) for them not labeling it as such, it goes against what you want.

"I don't care" may be a sign of tacit approval of the insults, but I don't think that's what you're doing here and why you are saying it.

Yep. I don't care about what people do in their own time. I just don't want to be misled into reading something a computer made.

People who don't disclose they are using AI in their "work" are being intentionally unethical and wasting my and other people time.

I've never commented "is this AI" or anything like that under anyone's story. Because it would be a waste of time.

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Imo, I think that "is this AI" should be allowed. In theory. In practice, I'm afraid that it may be toxic.

I'm all for open discourse and talking about the use of AI. If you don't like reading AI-written stories, you shouldn't be tricked into reading them - and honestly, I don't think it even matters if the AI-written fiction is the best fiction in the world. It doesn't matter why someone doesn't want to read AI-written fics, that's their choice.



Maybe we look at it from the wrong angle? What about labeling fics "no AI-used"? Instead of lying by omission, people would have to lie actively.

I would propose that the use of such a label should allow for questioning whether there really was no AI use. (In such a case, there should be an explicit, visible warning for authors that questions about AI use are allowed).

 

[The Radiance's Follower]

"I don't care" may be a sign of tacit approval of the insults, but I don't think that's what you're doing here and why you are saying it.

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It's just how I feel about the subject of AI 'author' getting ridiculed for being slop merchants. I am actively against witch hunts and insults since they directly impact user experience and will lead to a toxic environment. Mobs are not something anyone wants or desire.

Maybe we look at it from the wrong angle? What about labeling fics "no AI-used"? Instead of lying by omission, people would have to lie actively.

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This needs to be tested just to see if it could works. I don't see it having much of an impact. But it has potential. AI authors don't care enough to write so they could also not care enough to tag.

 

[GatoArc]

They have the right to do so, that's what I told you. It doesn't stop being 1-sided if it's your side.

The right to air opinions doesn't mean that people must accept and agree with it.

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Look. My problem is that when opinions are challenged, suddenly it's "witch hunts" & "hostile attacks". If you're going to move the discussion to AI as a tool, don't suddenly call foul the moment someone brings a counterargument.

Maybe we look at it from the wrong angle? What about labeling fics "no AI-used"? Instead of lying by omission, people would have to lie actively.

I would propose that the use of such a label should allow for questioning whether there really was no AI use. (In such a case, there should be an explicit, visible warning for authors that questions about AI use are allowed).

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Perfect, let's keep making suggestions and move away from arguing about AI overall, maybe we can workshop something feasible.

For your suggestion, I've thought about it, but unless there is some direct involvement from the staff, I doubt this would ever catch on, as it would require that every writer both old and new to tag their works in a certain way and know about the tag to begin with.

For people like me who want to avoid AI usage, we want to use our filters to filter out tags containing that label, so using a filter to only show us works with the "No AI usage" tag would almost certainly make 99% of stories in site unsearchable.

On that note, perhaps with my earlier suggestion in combination with yours, the checkbox when creating a new story could ask if AI was used, and then automatically assign the label of AI usage or not on thread creation.

 

[Lightbringer]

Don't care.

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Then good luck proving people are using AI.
Nobody is going to tell and you will keep needing to hurl unproven accusations, which won't ever be proven and thus the consequences would be a ban because of 'I felt the vibes were BAD'.

The irony is, wanna solve your problem? Do as people did when reading bad fics. Hell, I had my massive share of horrible stuff that I readed to decide whether it was good or not.

I regret reading that? Yeah, but I am not going to demand a 'bad fic' tag. So why should you?

And don't come whining about A.I use blah.
I felt the same when I had the displeasure of stomping on a Male Preg fic one time and I didn't ask for bans.

People who don't disclose they are using AI in their "work" are being intentionally unethical and wasting my and other people time.

I've never commented "is this AI" or anything like that under anyone's story. Because it would be a waste of time.

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Pff.
Look. And Learn.

"People who don't disclose they have no spelling skills or writing skills or good taste in their "work" are being intentionally unethical and wasting my and other people time.

I've never commented "is this shit" or anything like that under anyone's story. Because it would be a waste of time. After all, I could tell after reading it."

Difference is that I readed it.

 

[xihute]

Look. My problem is that when opinions are challenged, suddenly it's "witch hunts" & "hostile attacks". If you're going to move the discussion to AI as a tool, don't suddenly call foul the moment someone brings a counterargument.

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I think you ignore some posts because they align with what you think. The "hostile attacks" is response to calling people using AI to write "trash", "lazy", "Karens" etc.

True or not, it is a hostile attack. Lets not get offended about calling spade a spade.

Witch hunts is justified worry since there is no way to verify if someone used or didn't used AI - many people, including myself, is worried that accusations of AI use can easily get heated and turn into "witch hunt", where accused has no way of proving their innocence.

For your suggestion, I've thought about it, but unless there is some direct involvement from the staff, I doubt this would ever catch on, as it would require that every writer both old and new to tag their works in a certain way and know about the tag to begin with.

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As an counter-argument, I would say that if enough people care about AI use, than it should have a decent chance of spreading.

The same as with your earlier suggestions, I think that the biggest plus of these proposals is that even if they won't help, they shouldn't hurt.

Do you know sites where you feel like there's no problem of undisclosed AI use?

 

[The Radiance's Follower]

snip

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That's a false equivalence. Bad writing is not the same as AI slop. I have read many badly written books and didn't feel like I wasted my time. No matter how technically good AI slop it, I 100% of the time just wasted my time.

AI users being ridiculed is not my responsibility or anybody else. Actions have consequences. And the consequence of being a delusional person who thinks he can write or draw/paint as good as a professional writer or artist without any effort just because the LLM of some multi-billion dollar company gave him some output is frankly insulting. Take the AI away and there is nothing left.

A writer can write with a stick on dirt and leave something of value. I have seen people draw using the dust on the back of a car and leave art on it.

Now let's talk about a real problem that you AI supporters love to ignore. These people advertise their Patreon and take commissions. That's just a straight up scam. If you can't admit that it's a scam to take someone's money. That someone who is expecting work done normally and giving them AI slop a few days later then I don't think we can even discuss anything since you will just be coming from a place of bad faith.

And to clarify once again. I don't care about proving someone is using AI. The thread's name is how to detect if someone is using AI. If I notice someone is using AI, I just leave and ignore the thread. That's it.

And don't come whining about A.I use blah.

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Ironically. You are the only one whining here. To my knowledge no one named even one fic on the whole thread. And I'd like to keep it that way. If you aren't interest about discussing the subject of the thread then please stop commenting, This has already spiraled enough.

You are just being disruptive and combative.

Nobody is going to tell and you will keep needing to hurl unproven accusations, which won't ever be proven and thus the consequences would be a ban because of 'I felt the vibes were BAD'.

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I've never commented "is this AI" or anything like that under anyone's story.

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I think you missed reading this line here. I linked it for you so you can read it.

 

[GatoArc]

Do you know sites where you feel like there's no problem of undisclosed AI use?

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Every site that I use for stories unfortunately has this problem.

As an counter-argument, I would say that if enough people care about AI use, than it should have a decent chance of spreading.

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As much as I appreciate the suggestion, I'm personally hoping for something more concrete and less disruptive to my experience using this site. Opting-in to a tag that will remove 99% available content isn't a solution for me, even if every author that I'm currently following and reading opts-in, there will plenty of authors that I may never discover that will not, not to mention new writers, which is something I want to start reading from again, and old writers who may have stopped using the site.

I think you missed reading this line here. I linked it for you so you can read it.

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They tend to do that a lot huh.

 

[NumberSix]

it will be nice if we can stop with the witch hunting and struggle sessions against A.I. users. The more i think about it the more it smells like a lot of these threads demand people get a free pass for rule 1 violations.

 

[GatoArc]

it will be nice if we can stop with the witch hunting and struggle sessions against A.I. users. The more i think about it the more it smells like a lot of these threads demand people get a free pass for rule 1 violations.

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Case and point. You go into this thread about AI disclosure. Derail it by glorifying AI, and as soon as someone engages with your points, you dismiss the entire thread as "witch hunting".

Why are you here?

 

[xihute]

Every site that I use for stories unfortunately has this problem.

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That likely means that problem is unsolvable or nobody is willing to solve it. I would be for trying non-invasive proposals, but it's unlikely they will work.

The problem may solve itself or get worse, if the LLMs' writing will get more human-like.

Is LLMs writing getting better or did it hit the wall? I'm uninformed about it.

AI users being ridiculed is not my responsibility or anybody else. Actions have consequences. And the consequence of being a delusional person who thinks he can write or draw/paint as good as a professional writer or artist without any effort just because the LLM of some multi-billion dollar company gave him some output is frankly insulting.

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Now it looks like you support it and not "I don't care".

Now let's talk about a real problem that you AI supporters love to ignore. These people advertise their Patreon and take commissions. That's just a straight up scam. If you can't admit that it's a scam to take someone's money. That someone who is expecting work done normally and giving them AI slop a few days later then I don't think we can even discuss anything since you will just be coming from a place of bad faith.

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There's truth in there, the false advertisment and so on, even by omission.

On the other hand, unless other pieces are made "by hand", person commissioning work can see what the author produces. I'm not sure if most people care beyond getting the product they want.

(It's bit similar to ghost writers that write books under popular author's name.)

They're also authors that disclose the use of AI, and they are surprisingly popular.

*
The thing people ignore is also that there's the whole spectrum of AI-use, and not even people against AI in writing will be against to the same degree.

I'm curious how the process looks like. There are writers showing how they write chapters on YT, is there something similar for AI use?

 

[aquinas]

One handwritten page of text or demonstration of physical incapacity

I'm only sorta joking to be honest.

 

[xihute]

One handwritten page of text or demonstration of physical incapacity

I'm only sorta joking to be honest.

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You should joke completely, since both people using and not-using AI would have to just transcribe the words from the screen onto paper.

Oh, and I'm sure there's an AI for this.

 

[Lightbringer]

That's a false equivalence. Bad writing is not the same as AI slop. I have read many badly written books and didn't feel like I wasted my time.

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Suuuuuuuuure, and the sky is made of pigs. Excuse if I don't believe that line and that I believe you wouldn't be saying that if A.I didn't exist.

No matter how technically good AI slop it, I 100% of the time just wasted my time.

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I will tell why you are saying that.
'Muh Jobs, I hate tech bros, artists got stolen'.

News at eleven. Intellectual Property is overrated and stupid. Ideas are not material objects.
I will make a statement. If AI was made by a certain group other that American Entrepreneurs, the same crowd would be praising it instead.

AI users being ridiculed is not my responsibility or anybody else. Actions have consequences. And the consequence of being a delusional person who thinks he can write or draw/paint as good as a professional writer or artist without any effort just because the LLM of some multi-billion dollar company gave him some output is frankly insulting. Take the AI away and there is nothing left.

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Same could be said about anyone typing words in a screen. Remove the computer and there is nothing left, not even good calligraphy.

Or maybe we should also say about the fuckers using 3D printers. Remove the machines and you got nobody that can wield clay. There is nothing left.

This logic of yours does not hold back the counter unless you accept my points.

A writer can write with a stick on dirt and leave something of value.

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The fact they know means nothing if they use tools.
A writer does nothing of value unless he writes by hand. That is where your logic goes, want it or not. Reality does not care.

I have seen people draw using the dust on the back of a car and leave art on it.

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They don't value the work. They value the skill. And even then it isn't absolute because name matters more.

What is worth more? Picasso's OG paintings or a painting some painter did on a plaza? Is his work beautiful? Yes, but the value is far more tied to the name that did it than some nebulous 'work-value' metric, otherwise both paintings should have the same exact value.

But there are people who apparently value AI work on the same standard. They pay the guys on Patreon for that. So they are doing something right apparently.

It is time to accept the times.

Now let's talk about a real problem that you AI supporters love to ignore. These people advertise their Patreon and take commissions. That's just a straight up scam. If you can't admit that it's a scam to take someone's money. That someone who is expecting work done normally and giving them AI slop a few days later then I don't think we can even discuss anything since you will just be coming from a place of bad faith.

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If that is a scam, then video editing, photo editing and others done to make people look prettier than what they are is a scam.

But you won't call it a scam right? Your issue is not that there is a scam or not. It is the 'Muh Job' part.

Unless the buyer explicitly keeps clear he wants human work, then there is nothing wrong. I will point out that thanks to people using 'AI Slop' as a way to kill off whoever uses it, then they won't ever disclose they are using it. Which poisons your market.

And to clarify once again. I don't care about proving someone is using AI. The thread's name is how to detect if someone is using AI. If I notice someone is using AI, I just leave and ignore the thread. That's it.

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Good, you are doing the actual correct thing when you face AI work.

Now...

Ironically. You are the only one whining here. To my knowledge no one named even one fic on the whole thread.

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Except they are complaining continuously begging for a rule forcing people to say, in their frame of view, 'This tag here I placed here. It says my fic is shit'.

Just think. Carefully.

Nobody will admit that under such frame of view.

And I'd like to keep it that way. If you aren't interest about discussing the subject of the thread then please stop commenting, This has already spiraled enough.

You are just being disruptive and combative.

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My point is pretty clear. You can't prove, but what you can do is to make people feel safe about disclosing it. Which is not what any of you wish to do. You work and fail against your own premise.

I think you missed reading this line here. I linked it for you so you can read it.

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Irrelevant considering what I disclosed.

 

[GatoArc]

That likely means that problem is unsolvable or nobody is willing to solve it. I would be for trying non-invasive proposals, but it's unlikely they will work.

The problem may solve itself or get worse, if the LLMs' writing will get more human-like.

Is LLMs writing getting better or did it hit the wall? I'm uninformed about it.

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If you want my personal speculation on why this media of entertainment has basically no guardrails for unethical AI usage: it's due to the engagement that sites like these benefit from having AI software crank out chapters on the daily.

AI isn't going anywhere so I can only predict that the problem will get worse. I've already given up on new stories, so they're not getting any traction from me, others might do the same as they get tired of seeing the same prompts over and over again like I have, who knows what effect that will have on the site specially as quality dips in favor of quantity.

I tend to do my best to avoid it, so I'm no expert. That being said, the last time I encountered undisclosed AI usage I've gotten to halfway of chapter 1 before I noticed a prompt. Whether that's an improvement or stagnation I got no clue.

 

[NumberSix]

Case and point. You go into this thread about AI disclosure. Derail it by glorifying AI, and as soon as someone engages with your points, you dismiss the entire thread as "witch hunting".

Why are you here?

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I have glorified A.I.? Where?
I am just looking at the situation pragmatically.

 

[Narcissist]

Honestly; The only minimally viable solution posted in this thread is the one where people start tagging, "100% organic free range fanfic".

 

[aquinas]

I've been thinking about how to phrase this politely.

People "making" stories with AI are masturbating. They are putting on an "artist" fursuit and jacking off. It's QQ so no kink shaming, that's half the reason people come here, but I'm still going to be annoyed and disgusted if it's unmarked and I can't avoid it. I'm equally annoyed when I run into a thread someplace with guro or scat.

Avoiding that is a good thing for both parties I think.

If that makes sense?

Edit: cut a word or two that seemed too harsh.

 

[ForestDweller]

Honestly; The only minimally viable solution posted in this thread is the one where people start tagging, "100% organic free range fanfic".

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Online artists will be the next "all natural" produce scammers.

People "making" stories with AI are masturbating in public.

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Anti-AI folks everyone!

 

[Narcissist]

Online artists will be the next "all natural" produce scammers.

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You want some grass fed fanfic? Just $49.99 for 1000 words. Certified Humane!

 

[The Radiance's Follower]

Now it looks like you support it and not "I don't care".

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I don't care if they are ridiculed or that their reputation is at rock bottom, I won't go out to defend them or attack them personally or support witch hunts or do anything that may affect anyone directly.

But of course I have opinions on the people using AI and the state of AI generated work.

On the other hand, unless other pieces are made "by hand", person commissioning work can see what the author produces. I'm not sure if most people care beyond getting the product they want.

(It's bit similar to ghost writers that write books under popular author's name.)

They're also authors that disclose the use of AI, and they are surprisingly popular.

*
The thing people ignore is also that there's the whole spectrum of AI-use, and not even people against AI in writing will be against to the same degree.

I'm curious how the process looks like. There are writers showing how they write chapters on YT, is there something similar for AI use?

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I am sorry. But I have never run into people getting commissioned for AI work. Maybe we just don't run in the same circles. But on the other hand I find quite a lot of people who ask around showing their commissions and asking if they got scammed and got AI work or not.

I mean come on. If there is no AI advertised then people normally assume it's hand made. I am not crazy for thinking this. And while we have a trained eye, You may be surprised that many people can't really recognize AI and go ask for commissions from artists that have cool artwork shown.

 

[NumberSix]

Honestly; The only minimally viable solution posted in this thread is the one where people start tagging, "100% organic free range fanfic".

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And everyone is gonna lie about it.

In some games the only winning move is not to play at all.