Amelia, Worm AU [Complete]

[dasstan]

I get it, I was clarifying the comment.

I probably shouldn't be posting, didn't sleep well and am kinda drifting in a haze.

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Amusingly, your avatar looks like it's giving a really skeletal facepalm...

 

[Navrin]

Places not being able to restrict immigration could easily have huge problems, especially with some of the other clauses. A group that wants to avoid information-age technology for whatever reason? Too bad, infomorph AIs want to move in and they're obligated to provide for them.

Group that wants a quiet, pastoral life? Ten thousand people want that land and are moving in. Sure, it will be loud and otherwise ruin the lifestyle that they want even if no individual person actually breaks any of the laws, but there's nothing they can do about it.

Moving enough people in to completely rewrite the laws of the government and fold it into the originating group.

I completely agree on not allowing them to stop emigration, but what's the rationale for not allowing them to prohibit immigration? What advantages does it provide that so completely outweigh the disadvantages that it's planetary law? Especially since prohibiting certain groups from immigrating already has the disadvantage of a lower population.


What I think is reasonable: Clones are not the same person as the original, but a clone set to be activated after their death is, in itself, a sign that that new person is the intended beneficiary and they automatically inherit everything that their originator had, unless the originator had their will structured differently.

 

[Dareth]

Having an endbringer fight where everyone dies be offscreen is a bizarre choice. Are we going to see flashbacks? Is this a narrative device to show how jarring it would be for a clone to come to? (If it wasn't, that's a good rationale). I'm reacting more negatively to this 'twist' than I did the Simurgh chapters earlier.


You said in an earlier post that you thought Wildbow padded his wordcount. Maybe that's true, but I think just not showing a critical moment is much more of a screwup.

 

[TanaNari]

I get it, I was clarifying the comment.

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No. See. If you did get it, then you'd know that there was no need to clarify anything.

A group that wants to avoid information-age technology for whatever reason? Too bad, infomorph AIs want to move in and they're obligated to provide for them.

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Untrue. A government can easily mandate technological bans and expect it to be enforced. They're not obligated to provide anyone with anything. Except in the case of people the state is of course expected to provide for, like captive prisoners.

Group that wants a quiet, pastoral life? Ten thousand people want that land and are moving in.

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Also: there's absolutely nothing stopping 10,000 new yorkers from moving into the middle of Amish territory and building a modern metropolitan microcity. It doesn't happen. Why? Well, lots of reasons, none of which have anything to do with constitutional law.

Moving enough people in to completely rewrite the laws of the government and fold it into the originating group.

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If it happens naturally, that's called social evolution. If it happens due to an aggressive neighbor attempting expansion, it's a serious, highly visible, and easily traceable crime that goes badly for the perpetrators.

but I think just not showing a critical moment is much more of a screwup.

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You think them dying is a 'critical moment'? What story have you been reading?

Seriously, though. This was very much a deliberate choice. You're entitled to not enjoy it. But I thought the useless bitching at my artistic choices phase of the story was over.

 

[cosoco]

Having an endbringer fight where everyone dies be offscreen is a bizarre choice. Are we going to see flashbacks? Is this a narrative device to show how jarring it would be for a clone to come to? (If it wasn't, that's a good rationale). I'm reacting more negatively to this 'twist' than I did the Simurgh chapters earlier.

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I'm actually of the opinion that it would improve Amelia if fewer of the fight scenes were written out.

There's a reason why Wildbow never had the good guys use Blasto+Cranial to back up all of their parahumans: it would make any fight scene totally unsuspenseful.

I'm a little confused as to why they didn't kill Zach and reclone him. Can they not scan him? Is it like Amelia, where powers interfere with the cloning process?

Seriously, though. This was very much a deliberate choice. You're entitled to not enjoy it. But I thought the useless bitching at my artistic choices phase of the story was over.

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Bitching at your choices is... inevitable.

Spoiler

 

[TanaNari]

I'm actually of the opinion that it would improve Amelia if fewer of the fight scenes were written out.

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Aww.

But my fight scenes are full of character development moments and often emotional drama.

Or at least a good laugh or two.

There's a reason why Wildbow never had the good guys use Blasto+Cranial to back up all of their parahumans: it would make any fight scene totally unsuspenseful.

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I would argue that a fight scene doesn't need to be suspenseful in order to be good or enjoyable. DBZ managed to do it.

And risk of death need not be the important danger in a fight. Humiliation and failure are just fine. Look at sports movies. No one thinks they're going to literally be murdered for losing a game of hockey or whatever.

I'm a little confused as to why they didn't kill Zach and reclone him. Can they not scan him? Is it like Amelia, where powers interfere with the cloning process?

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That's been explained in the story more than once. Including a refresher course in the most recent chapter.

 

[Dareth]

You think them dying is a 'critical moment'? What story have you been reading?

Seriously, though. This was very much a deliberate choice. You're entitled to not enjoy it. But I thought the useless bitching at my artistic choices phase of the story was over.

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Well, it's the first time he's been meaningfully hurt. Also Taylor's death was worth, what, 5 chapters last time? I suppose that was a different story, though. Or was it not a critical moment either?

A deliberate choice? Obviously, unless you accidentally write all this shit it was a deliberate choice. I asked in my post if you were going to show any of the fight or if it was just going to be skipped. I'm just curious. I guess I thought the overreaction to every slightly negative comment phase of the story was over. Seems we were both wrong.

 

[Jack of Olives]

Honestly, I really like the chapter; We're left going 'what just happ- oh! ****.', just like most of the cast is. It adds atmosphere.

Then again, that's just my opinion

 

[Peanuckle]

"It manifested Taylor," she added. "Activated the emergency overrides on our armors to pull us out of our nice, safe, Avalon. And last but not least, set the Zerg on the defenders. Then it manifested a copy of Lily's powers. And for the ultimate fuck you? Shatterbird. Say goodbye to all those nice Dragon suits that our Zerg were playing meatshields for."

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Damn, son. They just got spanked. So much for Endslayers, eh? I wonder how soon people will start calling them out on their inability to deal with the new ones. "Killing" Ziz is going to look like a fluke after all this.

And for such public deaths; that really kicked up a shitstorm. I wonder if the UN would try to confiscate Avalon on the basis that they're not people anymore? It'd be stupid as hell but when did that ever stop government?

 

[Sheaman3773]

One actually diverges from Aleph at the point where Bet made contact with one, but not the other.

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That goes against Haywire's theories of divergent universes!

More seriously, it seems to go against Zion's closing of universes too similar to each other.

Less seriously, it's clearly a reference to RL, given the 9/11 reference in the Travelers' arc.

We'l have to wait

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We'll*

Untrue. A government can easily mandate technological bans and expect it to be enforced. They're not obligated to provide anyone with anything. Except in the case of people the state is of course expected to provide for, like captive prisoners.

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So, out of curiosity, if someone who is dependent on technology to live--an AI as the above stated or, more realistically, an elderly person using life-supporting technology--wanted to move into Luddite-town, perhaps to enjoy the bucolic life in their sunset years, how do you resolve the rights to lifestyle vs immigration freedom vs local laws? Note I'm specifically suggesting that they bring their own, not that the new government provide them with anything.

Pretend for a moment that Amelia couldn't or wouldn't just heal them to the point that they wouldn't need such tech.

Or perhaps another way to put it is, why is it that a technology ban wouldn't interfere with the rights to preferred lifestyle? It sounds like it's "favor[ing] a...personal preference over any other."

Nice wake-up scene, btw. It's a little bit worrisome that Amelia's harder to clone, since she also can't keep herself young. How often are they updating their backups these days?

 

[cosoco]

I went back and reread the chapter, but I still don't see why they can't clone Zach.

The pod made a beeping noise, and then I was sprayed with a gel material. My power immediately told me it was some kind of psuedofungus and a bit of sugary composite that it fed upon. It solidified, forming crude clothing on my body.

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I don't think anyone's mentioned this, but Pantheon has spray-on clothing. This is amazing.

"Wha hamd?" I asked. Wow, talking sucks. Why? Taylor didn't have a problem talking when she was restored.

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"Oh, it's just a teensy bit of brain damage."

"Dragon, actually," she answered. "She's funding this particular legal battle. Has some really high powered lawyers on the case. I'm not sure exactly why, but I'm pretty certain it's personally important to her.

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Lisa, you weasel.

And for such public deaths; that really kicked up a shitstorm. I wonder if the UN would try to confiscate Avalon on the basis that they're not people anymore? It'd be stupid as hell but when did that ever stop government?

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I think writing a strongly worded letter asking Avalon to return the land would be more the UN's speed.

And, y'know, just because the head of state dies doesn't mean that the government stops existing.

 

[Snake/Eater]

this is a major loss(politics,public trust,casualties,) in every way for Pantheon,but in defeat,there is victory... for the planed Exodus of mankind.here's a remixed version of Cherry Ghost's "People Help the People" as covered by Birdy.

Spoiler: People Help the People

[goodnight sweet Prince?]

 

[pepperjack]

Well, I don't know about you, but the people who pay attention have had it virtually spoonfed to them.

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And now you've hurt my feelings.

 

[tilkau]

What I think is reasonable: Clones are not the same person as the original, but a clone set to be activated after their death is, in itself, a sign that that new person is the intended beneficiary and they automatically inherit everything that their originator had, unless the originator had their will structured differently.

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Do not bring inheritance law into it. Auugh.

(fortunately, that solution isn't quite adequate anyway. Inheritance doesn't really cover the need to be considered the same actual person (eg. in terms of drivers license, medical records, and a bazillion other bureaucratic artefacts.))

 

[tordg]

I get it

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I accept that my idiocy may have to be verified here, but can someone actually explain? I've got nothing even with clues and Google is no help.

 

[cosoco]

I accept that my idiocy may have to be verified here, but can someone actually explain? I've got nothing even with clues and Google is no help.

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1. dastan said that Pantheon using VCR's broke his SoD
2. TanaNari intentionally misread his comment
3. doomlord9 explained what dastan meant in greater detail
4. TanaNari got annoyed by him explaining the joke
5. doomlord9 clarified that he understood the joke

 

[tordg]

Ah, I missed the intentional misreading. Any word on why Lisa actually said VCR? Because Pantheon actually using VCRs would also break my SoD so I'm assuming she was doing something too clever for me.

 

[pepperjack]

Ah, I missed the intentional misreading. Any word on why Lisa actually said VCR? Because Pantheon actually using VCRs would also break my SoD so I'm assuming she was doing something too clever for me.

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Obviously it stands for Vine-based Clairvoyant Reenacter, a variant Yggdrasil strain that sees all and does instant replay. Because VHS tapes would just be silly.
Yes I know not really.

 

[Daunmi]

Obviously it stands for Vine-based Clairvoyant Reenacter, a variant Yggdrasil strain that sees all and does instant replay.

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That would be awesome.

 

[Navrin]

Untrue. A government can easily mandate technological bans and expect it to be enforced. They're not obligated to provide anyone with anything. Except in the case of people the state is of course expected to provide for, like captive prisoners.

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"For unusual intelligent life, special considerations may need to be taken to ensure their wellbeing. Failure to accommodate for these needs, or attempts to use these abnormalities against them shall be treated as a form of torture equivalent to denying a prisoner food or sleep."

That's the conflict I'm talking about. A reasonable interpretation of this clause seems to be that if there is an unusual need of a citizen or visitor then the government is responsible for providing for their needs. If they don't have the capability/desire to fulfill those needs and somebody that needs them moves in, they're guilty of torturing them.

Also: there's absolutely nothing stopping 10,000 new yorkers from moving into the middle of Amish territory and building a modern metropolitan microcity. It doesn't happen. Why? Well, lots of reasons, none of which have anything to do with constitutional law.

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Four primary reasons I can think of. Lack of infrastructure, it's a fair amount of effort, property laws mean that they generally can't, and there's basically nothing to gain by doing this.

These reasons are a lot less compelling on Avalon. Infrastructure can be more readily built up and they can literally expand their territories by "eating" neighboring settlements.

If it happens naturally, that's called social evolution. If it happens due to an aggressive neighbor attempting expansion, it's a serious, highly visible, and easily traceable crime that goes badly for the perpetrators.

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Nice to know that the separate code of laws forbids this practice. However, from what information is provided, this kind of behaviour seems to be implicitly protected as, unless it's explicitly called out as a crime, blocking the immigrants would be the crime.

And I notice that you didn't address what I consider to be the most important question... why is forcing places to allow immigration of anyone considered desirable?[/QUOTE]

 

[dasstan]

Obviously it stands for Vine-based Clairvoyant Reenacter, a variant Yggdrasil strain that sees all and does instant replay. Because VHS tapes would just be silly.
Yes I know not really.

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*quietly adds a new entry into the headcanon.*

 

[doomlord9]

• dastan said that Pantheon using VCR's broke his SoD

• TanaNari intentionally misread his comment

• doomlord9 explained what dastan meant in greater detail

• TanaNari got annoyed by him explaining the joke

• doomlord9 clarified that he understood the joke

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Add in the fact that until Tananari responded to me I didn't realize I was trying to explain the joke to the author. I'm somewhat more coherent now that I've had 3 cups of coffee but yeah, that was pretty facepalm worthy.

 

[cosoco]

And I notice that you didn't address what I consider to be the most important question... why is forcing places to allow immigration of anyone considered desirable?

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Here's a better question: why disallow immigration? Say you're in a country with a high GDP per capita, a high standard of living, good education, etc. People from other countries want to immigrate, because your country is vastly preferable.

But it's not in your best interests to allow them to.

• They'll stress your social programs.
• They'll take your jobs.
• There's a correlation between poverty and crime, so they're more likely to commit crimes.

And your government will listen to your interests and not theirs, because you can vote and they can't. There's no conspiracy to keep people born in poor countries poor; it's an emergent behavior. This is why I always find it irritating when people discuss creating a minimum standard of living, because what they're really saying is, "a minimum standard of living for the people who can vote in our country."

So, there's a rationale for it, but I can also see how it might explode in their faces. *eats popcorn*

 

[Faraway-R]

But seriously, nobody mentioned something yet.

Avalon has just lost a huge amount of real estate value.

Tohu!Amelia equals "everyone on Avalon is dead". Therefore, so long as Tohu exists, Avalon is potentially a deathtrap.

 

[pepperjack]

Tohu!Amelia equals "everyone on Avalon is dead". Therefore, so long as Tohu exists, Avalon is potentially a deathtrap.

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This requires that Tohu also gets access to Avalon.

 

[cosoco]

This requires that Tohu also gets access to Avalon.

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Tohu!Doormaker?

 

[pepperjack]

Tohu!Doormaker?

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Yes, that would work. Two points:

1) From a public relations perspective, Doormaker does not exist. He's a Cauldron secret. This particular possibility will not hurt property values.
2) From the perspective of those in the know, the question becomes, "would the mass-murder of Avalon by Tohu!Doormaker/Gaia/Clairvoyant serve the Endmaker's hidden agenda?"

 

[Navrin]

They're single points of failure, and there are ways to attack said points of failure that are exceptionally hard to defend against. A too-close bud, a power copier, tinkertech mimicking their powers in some way... Really, they're probably going to invest in "circuit breakers" for their powers to prevent similar disasters in the future.

 

[cosoco]

They're single points of failure, and there are ways to attack said points of failure that are exceptionally hard to defend against. A too-close bud, a power copier, tinkertech mimicking their powers in some way... Really, they're probably going to invest in "circuit breakers" for their powers to prevent similar disasters in the future.

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It sorta bugs me that they haven't made a circuit breaker for the Taylia bond, also.

 

[dasstan]

Poor Tohu's going to get himself hijacked by Taylia when he decides to do an Amy/Taylor/someone else mix, isn't he?