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Snake/Eater
Myth Maker of the North
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as i said before,there are some international political problems because of this defeat,Avalon is going have their first political crisis and the jackals are going to come out of shadows to take a bite.the question is who first? Gessalshaft,the dragon's teeth,the protectorate,the disenfranchised nations,the C.U.I...all of them?
Tamahori
Getting some practice in, huh?
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One hopes that nobody is quite that stupid ... historically speaking, putting Taylor's back up against the wall has not gone well for anyone in the area (often including Taylor and the people she cares about).
Leonidas333
Well-Known Murderhobo
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I suspect that Eidolon may be angry that Pantheon is stealing the spotlight from him. At least subconsciously. But that's all that's needed, and the outcome of this fight seems like very solid evidence that that happened. Huge "Casualties" on the Pantheon side, and the strategy by the endbringer was one that hit the Pantheon PR as well. And now that its public that there is a cloning system, well, Eidolon may start to resent that as well...
steamrick
Matter: protons, electrons, neutrons and morons
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*hoping someone will make a PHO omake for reactions to the endbringer fight and its follow-up revelation of cloning tech*
Normally I'd beg the author, but I distinctly remember TanaNari stating that s/he hates writing PHO.
Normally I'd beg the author, but I distinctly remember TanaNari stating that s/he hates writing PHO.
GiftofLove
A Gift From The Heart
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I kinda hate reading it. One of those hit or miss things.
Also, painfully meta.
Also, painfully meta.
cosoco
Not too sore, are you?
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I don't know that he's said that. I hope he has, because I moderately dislike PHO interludes. I regard "PHO is amazed at/disgusting towards main character(s)" as a forced meme, at this point. It was funny when Wildbow did it, but it stopped being funny rapidly. By the time Clockwork did it, it was beating a dead horse. It also doesn't make sense that the main characters would participate. I mean, after Victoria was revived, it was said that Taylor and Amelia had barely any personal time in their schedules.
Fortunately, you can skip them, and nothing will be lost, because nothing of substance is ever discussed in them. Personally, I found the Constitution chapter much more interesting. Do the tax code next, TanaNari.
Also this.
Snake/Eater
Myth Maker of the North
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what about a new character,that a common trick among writers to show a different point of view.i can name a few writers guilty of this. Stephan king,David Weber,orson scott card,that guy who wrote the legend of the galactic heroes is ridiculously guilty of this etc etc.anyone could create an omake about a group of people in a bar or cafe talking about whats going on.
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SwiftRosenthal
Connoisseur.
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Clockwork at least managed a new spin on it, by making the segment live. All the robots were commenting in the thread while they were involved in whatever the thread was about. (Some kind of master/stranger hostage crisis IIRC.)
Daunmi
Shun the sun, night so nice
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Any national/world anthems? Oaths to take to join Avalon's military?
We don't really care about your story any more. We just come here to read legislation, tax documents and political debate minutes.
Since, in the past, you've been incredibly conscientious of your reader's desires, obviously this is the way you'll be going.
Hexed999
I trust you know where the happy button is?
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While I disagree with you on the usefulness of PHO interludes, I'm going to add that they're best done during slow points in the story or during the calm before/after the storm when the public opinion and reaction is important/can't be summarized in a sentence or two. A PHO interlude (or canon omake) at this point would at best be pointless and could quite possibly break the story's pacing.
edale
Versed in the lewd.
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He already did:
There's the entirety of the Avalon Tax Code as it stands now. Once they get some immigrants to set up a community and start taxing, THEN they'll have more of a tax code.
Snake/Eater
Myth Maker of the North
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shouldn't it be called Avalonic Tax Code.
edale
Versed in the lewd.
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Avalonian?
pepperjack
A Variety of Cheese
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I prefer it to Avalonic, but if "U.S. Tax Code" is good enough, then "Avalon Tax Code" is probably also fine.
TanaNari
Verified Dick
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Same way it happens pretty much anywhere else in the real world. Cultural preference.
I imagine that Bet's UN, given the nature of Endbringers, would result in a stronger organization with more powers to act with.
This, however, is true. The Empresses are dead. Day or two later: New Empress(es)!
It's really the most elegant of solution to the problem of power transfer.
There's a reason there's a clause in their constitution about unnaturally created life still qualifying as a "person" after all. That protects clones.
To prevent all the problems that come from strong national boundaries. Namely:
Third world hellholes that, thanks to the actions of their more powerful neighbors, will never stop being third world hellholes.
Wars and international hostilities.
Crazy assholes taking control of the government and preventing their people from having the ability to fix that problem.
What Avalon's trying to do is create nations that are nations in name only. The exact same way the USA has successfully created states which are states in name only. In fact, the definition of the word "state" has changed its meaning thanks to this.
There was a time when the various states of the union were considered nations unto themselves and the federal government was viewed as only a little more important than the UN is today. Not so much, anymore. But when thought of in that light, the US Civil War makes a lot more sense, doesn't it?
Imagine how the USA would react if the United Nations tried to mandate laws that it had to follow. We would basically just ignore them (and by 'would' I mean 'already do'). But if they then (somehow) blockaded our international trade... yeah, we'd be like "fuck you", leave the UN. And if they started threatening us with a war for trying?
There you go, that's the history they fail to teach you in grade school.
That's actually an argument that can be made. But it's pretty asinine. It'd be thrown out of court when case law starts being developed. In the same way the US constitution's protection against Cruel and Unusual Punishment could be interpreted to mean prisons are unconstitutional. Try getting Supreme Court to sign off on that.
The government's not obligated to provide much more than education and legal transparency. And legal protection that extends to everyone equally. And possibly an ambulance to drive you to a place that *can* help if they cannot.
No, it really can't. Houses can be built more readily. Roads, too, to a degree. More useful infrastructure, like buildings that can be more than a couple stories tall (because that's all the Yggdrasil can support) still need to be built out of actual construction supplies. If you want to make much more than suburb, you'll need actual resources to do it in.
Look at the "Protected Vote" and "Defrauding".
Keep in mind, one of the advantages Avalon has to offer is lie detection technology built directly into their legal system. It's pretty much impossible for a non-parahuman to get away with committing a crime. And it can be used for immigrants as well, as long as you don't ask unfair questions. But "what are your reasons for moving to our nation?" is NOT an unfair question. Nor is refusing an immigrant on the basis of "they keep lying to us."
The would be immigrant is allowed to ask, and be informed of, why they were refused. And they can issue a complaint to the Imperial government if they feel they were treated unfairly. After that, well, it's circling back around to case law.
For that matter, it's up to the Imperial government to determine who is or is not qualified when the time for a protected vote comes. If there's any suspicion at all of people trying to game the system, well, good luck with that.
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GiftofLove
A Gift From The Heart
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If you try to game the system, you'll understand Zachs pain as a never-ending stream of grasshoppers hurl themselves down your throat at unpredictable times.
Hitler would have been far less charismatic if he were spitting up mangled grasshoppers every few minutes.
Hitler would have been far less charismatic if he were spitting up mangled grasshoppers every few minutes.
skychan
Know what you're doing yet?
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I think the other aspect of the 'imigrate to assimilate' option you are missing is this.
Yay, we imigrated to have more people than them. They are now part of US!
Next week, we moved home and then they voted again, they are now not part of us anymore.
To successfully 'conquer' people through immigration you would need to consistently maintain more than 2/3rds the population everywhere within your new empire. Otherwise older areas could just vote their way out while your getting new land.
Yay, we imigrated to have more people than them. They are now part of US!
Next week, we moved home and then they voted again, they are now not part of us anymore.
To successfully 'conquer' people through immigration you would need to consistently maintain more than 2/3rds the population everywhere within your new empire. Otherwise older areas could just vote their way out while your getting new land.
Amelia, Ch 251
TanaNari
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Amelia, Ch 251
Taylor rushed into the room and pulled me into a tight hug. It was enough that it might have hurt, but I was given the full clone package of near perfect physical health. "I missed you so much," she whispered softly, and then she kissed me. The Taylia link was still down, doctor's orders, so I couldn't feel the full emotional brunt from Taylor's end. Though my power's ability to read biological traits was in full force. There wasn't a sense of desire, but there wasn't a sense of obligation, either. Just relief and happiness. Not the perfect reason, but I can live with it.
"Hey, there," I said with a smile after the kiss broke. I noticed the wetness on my face from her tears. "Is that how you're going to treat me every time I come back from the dead? Because if it is, I might have to make a habit of it."
"Don't you dare," she commanded, then she hugged me even tighter.
"Sorry," I gasped. "It's just... to me it's only been a couple hours. You remember what it was like when you died the first time?"
"First time?" a man's voice asked, and Taylor tensed nervously. I glanced toward the sound of the voice.
"Oh," I replied. "Sorry, Mister Hebert, didn't see you there." Oops.
"Taylor, what haven't you told me?"
"Well," she started, turning to look toward her dad. "Remember the conversation we had about me being no different than the original? Same memories and feelings and everything? And the six hours I spent proving it by telling you things about my childhood? I might have forgotten to mention that it happened before. After the Butcher fight."
"Christ, Taylor, why didn't you tell me?" he asked.
"Remember the conversation we had about me being no different than the original and then six hours proving it?" she replied. "That's why I didn't tell you. And don't go freaking out about this a second time, everything we already talked about still stands. I'm the same 'me' as I ever was."
"I..." he hesitated. "I guess you have a point," he admitted reluctantly. "I try not to be overprotective, but you live such a dangerous life."
"I know, Dad," she agreed. "We all do. That's what the backups are for. Our insurance policy. Really, you're in more danger than I am. A single accident..." she trailed off. Like what happened to her mother. She told me about that months ago. There wasn't a lot that Taylor and I hadn't talked about in the last half year we've been together. "You should get a backup made, too."
"I don't know about that," he replied hesitantly.
"You really should," Lisa replied. "Your new body will be you, if you were an olympic athlete twenty year old. I'm sorta looking forward to my first time."
"Taylor and Amelia don't look twenty," he pointed out.
"We kinda turn off the growth acceleration early," Lisa replied. "Or something like that, you'd have to talk to the Tinkers about how it all works. And then you'd have to give up because you have no idea what they're talking about because they're Tinkers. It's easier for everyone involved just to skip to the final stage, which is a quick and inaccurate analogy that at least sounds like it makes sense. Point is, we can make you look any age you like, but the default setting is perfect biological age, which is around twenty for most people. There's no benefits to going older, and we do younger for people who are younger for social, psychological and possibly legal reasons."
"I see," he replied. He looked a little stupified.
"You don't have to decide right away," Lisa continued. "You don't have to at all, if you don't want to. We do it because we have too much responsibility to allow something like death to get in the way of our jobs."
"It's a lot to take in," he admitted. "But I'm glad you're back, Amelia. Taylor's been absolutely miserable these last five days."
The girl I was still holding blushed furiously, and I really wished Taylia was running at this moment, just so I could experience the cascade of emotions and offer my reassurances in real time. Instead, I simply squeezed her slightly and gave her a light kiss on the cheek. The muted intimacy of mere physical contact was nice, but it was nothing compared to our link. "I figured as much."
"So what now?" Taylor asked me.
"I take it the kids are in school?" I asked. "Where's everyone else?" Gotta figure out the way things stand.
"Let's see," Lisa answered. "Crystal and Vicky are with the respective parents. Lily, Eric and Sabah are off finishing up portals in Eastern Europe, Egypt, and some of the Middle East. I'd have to find the exact route. Emma lives in her labs, now. I'm sure if you need her, she'll give you some time, but it's better to let her focus on her work."
She must be miserable, I thought. The muted information my physical contact with Taylor gave showed a level of pity for the girl. "No, there's not a lot I can say to her. I'll have to go visit my parents later. So how's Avalon doing?"
"Surprisingly well," Lisa replied. "We're accepting almost twelve thousand Romanian refugees, maybe a lot more. The Endbringer attack on Bucharest has pretty handedly destabilized the region, and it's looking like a coinflip that they'll be on their feet enough to support a colony program through their own portal. That will be the functional start of our Eurasian colony. Colonies, most likely. Romania's got a lot of very different cultural groups, some of which really don't like each other. They'll fracture pretty quickly. All part of the plan."
"Still don't like how we're profiting from the suffering of others," I muttered unhappily.
"Gets worse, if that's your problem," Lisa replied. "The Gesellschaft made a move on the Prague gateway. Literally during the Endbringer battle. They lost, eventually, but it resulted in the near total destruction of the colony. Plus there's still some Nazis remaining in the colony side. We offered our help to find and remove the problem, but they're dragging their asses because they're afraid of looking weak. You know, typical nationalistic stupidity at its finest. We're seeing a few people think twice about national portals. Especially in the less stable countries."
Taylor gave me a tighter hug, and as much as I enjoyed the physical contact, I continued to miss our real connection.
"And Japan's getting really meta-political," Lisa finalized. "There's a lot of refugees from the country that we're offering colonies in their original homeland, so we've managed to pick up a few thousand of them. Including over seven hundred from Brockton Bay alone. Some have taken to sending messages back home to their families about the offer. Now their government is accusing us of trying to undermine their authority. At least no one's caught wind of our blanket offer to give them their whole series of islands more or less whole cloth. There's the possibility of it getting really messy when that happens."
"Which, of course, they'll blame us for," Taylor added. "And a lot of countries are already suspicious of us trying to poach all their populations. Especially the countries that are already pretty shitty to begin with. Places like America and most of western Europe aren't nearly as worried, but they're more than willing to let the paranoia spread, because they wouldn't mind taking foreign nationals to fill up their population, either."
Well, nothing we didn't already expect, I thought. "And our deaths didn't cause any problems?"
"If anything, it seems to have helped us," Lisa replied. "A lot of arguments against our nation was along the lines of how we're constantly throwing ourselves into dangerous situations, and if we die then who runs the country? There's some nuts that have taken to calling you the 'Eternal Empresses' now. If you'll pardon the language, Mister Hebert, it squicks the ever loving fuck out of potential American colonists. But damn, some of the foreign immigrants are eating it up. Especially governments that are used to constitutional monarchies. Or less than constitutional monarchies, for that matter."
"I can imagine," I replied. I really couldn't. "So... Eternal Empress, huh?"
"No, we can't make it an official title," Taylor smirked at me.
"I know, but it sounds so cool," I pouted. "We could give everyone names like that. I already know what Lisa's title would be."
"Really?" Lisa smirked. "You managed to narrow it down to just one?"
"Okay, fine, titles," I retorted. "Happy now?"
"Yup," Lisa replied. "I'd be incredibly insecure if people could sum up their reasons for hating me in a single word."
"So is that all the major news I missed out on in the last week or so?" I asked.
"One bit of official business," Lisa replied. "Dragon's asking for recognition as a member of the Imperial government. Part of the advisory counsel, specifically for education. But I'm sure she'll do all kinds of other things, too."
"So everything she's already doing?" I summed up.
"Well, it also gives her a layer of protection from the governments she'll be dealing with," Lisa replied. "In case some government gets clever in how they write their internal legal system."
"Any reason why we wouldn't say yes?" I asked. "I mean, she know what she's giving up. She has to, she wrote most of it." Part of our constitutional law. You aren't allowed to be a member, or spouse of a member, of another nation's ruling body and a member of our Imperial rulership. It was the only fair way to keep our colony nations from having too much personal influence over the government, and vice versa.
"I'm not seeing one," Lisa replied. "Dragon's been nothing but good to us. This seems like a mere formality, to me. We just need your permission to make it truly official." Technically, they didn't need that, but it was nice that they asked.
"Well, make it official," I replied. "Are we done, now?"
"Yeah, seems like that's everything beyond what comes next."
"Okay," I took a deep breath, and enjoyed Taylor's scent in the process. "Now, I want to see the Endbringer fight."
================
A/N- And exposition over the state of all kinds of things!
Taylor rushed into the room and pulled me into a tight hug. It was enough that it might have hurt, but I was given the full clone package of near perfect physical health. "I missed you so much," she whispered softly, and then she kissed me. The Taylia link was still down, doctor's orders, so I couldn't feel the full emotional brunt from Taylor's end. Though my power's ability to read biological traits was in full force. There wasn't a sense of desire, but there wasn't a sense of obligation, either. Just relief and happiness. Not the perfect reason, but I can live with it.
"Hey, there," I said with a smile after the kiss broke. I noticed the wetness on my face from her tears. "Is that how you're going to treat me every time I come back from the dead? Because if it is, I might have to make a habit of it."
"Don't you dare," she commanded, then she hugged me even tighter.
"Sorry," I gasped. "It's just... to me it's only been a couple hours. You remember what it was like when you died the first time?"
"First time?" a man's voice asked, and Taylor tensed nervously. I glanced toward the sound of the voice.
"Oh," I replied. "Sorry, Mister Hebert, didn't see you there." Oops.
"Taylor, what haven't you told me?"
"Well," she started, turning to look toward her dad. "Remember the conversation we had about me being no different than the original? Same memories and feelings and everything? And the six hours I spent proving it by telling you things about my childhood? I might have forgotten to mention that it happened before. After the Butcher fight."
"Christ, Taylor, why didn't you tell me?" he asked.
"Remember the conversation we had about me being no different than the original and then six hours proving it?" she replied. "That's why I didn't tell you. And don't go freaking out about this a second time, everything we already talked about still stands. I'm the same 'me' as I ever was."
"I..." he hesitated. "I guess you have a point," he admitted reluctantly. "I try not to be overprotective, but you live such a dangerous life."
"I know, Dad," she agreed. "We all do. That's what the backups are for. Our insurance policy. Really, you're in more danger than I am. A single accident..." she trailed off. Like what happened to her mother. She told me about that months ago. There wasn't a lot that Taylor and I hadn't talked about in the last half year we've been together. "You should get a backup made, too."
"I don't know about that," he replied hesitantly.
"You really should," Lisa replied. "Your new body will be you, if you were an olympic athlete twenty year old. I'm sorta looking forward to my first time."
"Taylor and Amelia don't look twenty," he pointed out.
"We kinda turn off the growth acceleration early," Lisa replied. "Or something like that, you'd have to talk to the Tinkers about how it all works. And then you'd have to give up because you have no idea what they're talking about because they're Tinkers. It's easier for everyone involved just to skip to the final stage, which is a quick and inaccurate analogy that at least sounds like it makes sense. Point is, we can make you look any age you like, but the default setting is perfect biological age, which is around twenty for most people. There's no benefits to going older, and we do younger for people who are younger for social, psychological and possibly legal reasons."
"I see," he replied. He looked a little stupified.
"You don't have to decide right away," Lisa continued. "You don't have to at all, if you don't want to. We do it because we have too much responsibility to allow something like death to get in the way of our jobs."
"It's a lot to take in," he admitted. "But I'm glad you're back, Amelia. Taylor's been absolutely miserable these last five days."
The girl I was still holding blushed furiously, and I really wished Taylia was running at this moment, just so I could experience the cascade of emotions and offer my reassurances in real time. Instead, I simply squeezed her slightly and gave her a light kiss on the cheek. The muted intimacy of mere physical contact was nice, but it was nothing compared to our link. "I figured as much."
"So what now?" Taylor asked me.
"I take it the kids are in school?" I asked. "Where's everyone else?" Gotta figure out the way things stand.
"Let's see," Lisa answered. "Crystal and Vicky are with the respective parents. Lily, Eric and Sabah are off finishing up portals in Eastern Europe, Egypt, and some of the Middle East. I'd have to find the exact route. Emma lives in her labs, now. I'm sure if you need her, she'll give you some time, but it's better to let her focus on her work."
She must be miserable, I thought. The muted information my physical contact with Taylor gave showed a level of pity for the girl. "No, there's not a lot I can say to her. I'll have to go visit my parents later. So how's Avalon doing?"
"Surprisingly well," Lisa replied. "We're accepting almost twelve thousand Romanian refugees, maybe a lot more. The Endbringer attack on Bucharest has pretty handedly destabilized the region, and it's looking like a coinflip that they'll be on their feet enough to support a colony program through their own portal. That will be the functional start of our Eurasian colony. Colonies, most likely. Romania's got a lot of very different cultural groups, some of which really don't like each other. They'll fracture pretty quickly. All part of the plan."
"Still don't like how we're profiting from the suffering of others," I muttered unhappily.
"Gets worse, if that's your problem," Lisa replied. "The Gesellschaft made a move on the Prague gateway. Literally during the Endbringer battle. They lost, eventually, but it resulted in the near total destruction of the colony. Plus there's still some Nazis remaining in the colony side. We offered our help to find and remove the problem, but they're dragging their asses because they're afraid of looking weak. You know, typical nationalistic stupidity at its finest. We're seeing a few people think twice about national portals. Especially in the less stable countries."
Taylor gave me a tighter hug, and as much as I enjoyed the physical contact, I continued to miss our real connection.
"And Japan's getting really meta-political," Lisa finalized. "There's a lot of refugees from the country that we're offering colonies in their original homeland, so we've managed to pick up a few thousand of them. Including over seven hundred from Brockton Bay alone. Some have taken to sending messages back home to their families about the offer. Now their government is accusing us of trying to undermine their authority. At least no one's caught wind of our blanket offer to give them their whole series of islands more or less whole cloth. There's the possibility of it getting really messy when that happens."
"Which, of course, they'll blame us for," Taylor added. "And a lot of countries are already suspicious of us trying to poach all their populations. Especially the countries that are already pretty shitty to begin with. Places like America and most of western Europe aren't nearly as worried, but they're more than willing to let the paranoia spread, because they wouldn't mind taking foreign nationals to fill up their population, either."
Well, nothing we didn't already expect, I thought. "And our deaths didn't cause any problems?"
"If anything, it seems to have helped us," Lisa replied. "A lot of arguments against our nation was along the lines of how we're constantly throwing ourselves into dangerous situations, and if we die then who runs the country? There's some nuts that have taken to calling you the 'Eternal Empresses' now. If you'll pardon the language, Mister Hebert, it squicks the ever loving fuck out of potential American colonists. But damn, some of the foreign immigrants are eating it up. Especially governments that are used to constitutional monarchies. Or less than constitutional monarchies, for that matter."
"I can imagine," I replied. I really couldn't. "So... Eternal Empress, huh?"
"No, we can't make it an official title," Taylor smirked at me.
"I know, but it sounds so cool," I pouted. "We could give everyone names like that. I already know what Lisa's title would be."
"Really?" Lisa smirked. "You managed to narrow it down to just one?"
"Okay, fine, titles," I retorted. "Happy now?"
"Yup," Lisa replied. "I'd be incredibly insecure if people could sum up their reasons for hating me in a single word."
"So is that all the major news I missed out on in the last week or so?" I asked.
"One bit of official business," Lisa replied. "Dragon's asking for recognition as a member of the Imperial government. Part of the advisory counsel, specifically for education. But I'm sure she'll do all kinds of other things, too."
"So everything she's already doing?" I summed up.
"Well, it also gives her a layer of protection from the governments she'll be dealing with," Lisa replied. "In case some government gets clever in how they write their internal legal system."
"Any reason why we wouldn't say yes?" I asked. "I mean, she know what she's giving up. She has to, she wrote most of it." Part of our constitutional law. You aren't allowed to be a member, or spouse of a member, of another nation's ruling body and a member of our Imperial rulership. It was the only fair way to keep our colony nations from having too much personal influence over the government, and vice versa.
"I'm not seeing one," Lisa replied. "Dragon's been nothing but good to us. This seems like a mere formality, to me. We just need your permission to make it truly official." Technically, they didn't need that, but it was nice that they asked.
"Well, make it official," I replied. "Are we done, now?"
"Yeah, seems like that's everything beyond what comes next."
"Okay," I took a deep breath, and enjoyed Taylor's scent in the process. "Now, I want to see the Endbringer fight."
================
A/N- And exposition over the state of all kinds of things!
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dasstan
:)
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I really liked this line. Good on you, Lisa. Without Vicky around, you get to have the best lines once more.
Which one is Erica, again?
So, I'm thinking we need a Lisa and/or Riley chapter to show the fallout from the last few days. Lisa for the keen insight on everyone's moods, and Riley for the feels of having her big sister die.
cosoco
Not too sore, are you?
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it happened before
But damn, some of
Never change, Lisa.
Eric got another sex change.
Except... it really doesn't? The existential crisis is born from, "Am I the same person, or a copy?" It's a good argument for doing backups.
daimahou
Gentleman Tentacle(s)
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That reminds me of someone who is also a dick and is somewhere on this forum, maybe they are related?
Ack
(Verified Ratbag) (Unverified Great Old One)
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- Feb 12, 2014
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Yes. Several S9 capes were Cauldron created, and Bonesaw recreated them just fine.
GiftofLove
A Gift From The Heart
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- Jun 16, 2014
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Yeah, but that guy does it on purpose. Eidolon is just guilty of thought crimes against humanity.