GiftofLove
A Gift From The Heart
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- Jun 16, 2014
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Avalon is taken by Dragon.
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Just because Dragon triggered doesn't mean all AI's can. AI's can be sentient or non-sentient, emotional or emotionless depending on how they're made.the only problem with AI's are this,they cam trigger like humans as well.
I'm not 100% sure on this, but I am pretty confident that a second trigger has to stem from a similar type of trauma as the first. The only two multi-triggers shown in canon though are Skitter, who triggered twice from the same traumatic event, and Grue, who triggered twice from a feeling of helplessness at protecting those he has designated as his people (his sister and his teammate, respectively) against a stronger force.You people are either sarcastic or blind. LISA SECOND-TRIGGERED WHEN SHE CONCLUDED THAT SHE HAD CAUSED TAYLOR'S DEATH. It is LITERALLY impossible that Lisa does not care about Taylor. Because, y'know, if she didn't care about Taylor then causing Taylor's death could not POSSIBLY have trumped India in terms of trauma.
Trauma which is the cause of the second trigger.
So,when Vicky mentioned Lisa cared for only one person,she was talking about her weakness.Lisa cares for Taylor. That's one of her primary motivations in canon and in Amelia.
The locker event was never actually shown in canon. Taylor discussed it with the Undersiders long after the fact.I'm not 100% sure on this, but I am pretty confident that a second trigger has to stem from a similar type of trauma as the first. The only two multi-triggers shown in canon though are Skitter, who triggered twice from the same traumatic event, and Grue, who triggered twice from a feeling of helplessness at protecting those he has designated as his people (his sister and his teammate, respectively) against a stronger force.
Here's an idea for a planet name (really planet and nation name)/basis for a government:
Yggdrasil, just like the hybrid plant.
Just like the namesake I see Yggdrasil as a planet covered in Gaea made life, therefore there will be less inorganic and consequently unobserved structures. Taylia and its parts can control and observe biological matter at range this in conjunction with AI embedded into the plant-life of Yggdrasil via the Upload/Download tech you can create an entire planet that is a living breathing city monitored by AI capable of routing emergency services handling food, and numerous other action that a government must preform.
Armies can be raised in instants as a result of the sheer biomass available, clean power (as already demonstrated in the thread), efficient resource production and usage, it rapidly approaches Post-Scarcity levels.
As for the government, with the inclusion of Para-humans from the beginning, especially ones that can out think or murder an entire planet in seconds creates a situation where there is an unequal distribution of potential/power. For example Gaea owns the entire planet, the ENTIRE BIOSPHERE is her creation she is in control of a planets worth of resources at any given time. You don't just ignore such a disproportion power distribution, that is how things break. This is why I would propose a self-limited Absolute Monarchy. The government would function as the source of power [I am a firm believer than actions and ability maintain better the words and ideals, this seems especially true when people can fly/throw fire and other para-human actions] for any institution that are created in its name. For example a House of Thinkers whose sole purpose is to ensure a continual expansion of the nation or a Tech Guild, like the AdMech, whose function is to create tinkertech and the principles that allow them to work expanding human knowledge of physics.
TL;DR Yggdrasil, the living planet government. Run by an Absolute Monarchy that has institutions as a way of preventing direct expression of power.
So,when Vicky mentioned Lisa cared for only one person,she was talking about her weakness.
I'm sorry if you that impression, but no. I was actually saying less human involvement is a *good* thing.Are you trying to suggest this is a bad thing? Less involved a government needs to be in society the better off you are. On a lower scale, the sign of a good society would but that police have less work to do, not more.
Ignored history? Hah, that's...wow. History isn't as simple and trite as you're trying to make it. Governments and politics are even more complicated. If you're trying to say that democracies are unquestionably better than any other system, you'll need to provide some metric for comparison, documentation on how you'll impartially judge the merits of the various governmental systems, and then apply the lens of cultural bias to your own arguments. There isn't any such thing as 'best' in history, and if you think there is, you've oversimplified the entirety of the human experience to make a single, flawed, judgement call. All governments have their good points and bad.I'm not sure how you could believe this unless you've just ignored history entirely.
Humans are flawed creatures. The more power you concentrate in a human the more these flaws are magnified through their behavior. The more a government does this the more inferior it is.
Parahumans are even more flawed. They're people that in normal cases have extreme psychological damage and have giant alien space whales plugged into their brains that promotes more extreme attitudes and guides them towards conflict. Conflict is the last thing society needs.
Okay, ignoring the fact that you're looking at the construction of a government through morals and ethics as opposed to practicality, there's the issue of whether or not a government *should* impose a standardized rule set on humanity. I understand that 'equality before the law' is a standard of modern government, but you literally *can't* treat people like Alexandria with equality in a realistic world. That's not even getting into different cultural norms and the inherent diversity when addressing any given group of people.Parahumans only need a different set of rules if the government is incapable of imposing the same set of rules on them as everyone else.
Giving them titles like this is nothing more than undeserved appeasement. Parahumans who use their power to contribute to society should be appropriately rewarded just as any human is.
Elevating someone's status by default because they have superpowers granted by a race that wants to foster conflict and eventually destroy humanity is sending entirely the wrong message. This is only something you would need to do if you were incapable of doing otherwise. Pantheon seems to be on a path that would not require such appeasement in society which is why I don't consider it.
Again, I'm not disagreeing with you the AI thing. I'm agreeing. It would solve soooo many problems, but since you're focusing on my perceived stance *against* democracies...Parahumans and humans are inherently unequal, but not in a way that makes parahumans better at running a government. Their tendancy towards conflict in fact makes them worse at it if their extremes are not mitigated by other checks on their power.
This is why democracy is important. Spreading around power and then using checks and balances to mitigate failings results in less problems overall.
This is why having AI involved in government (not that I'm suggesting they entirely take over government) is important. AI do not have many of the flaws humans do. Having this aspect contribute to government is a very, very valuable thing.
All in all, it seems like your view of what kind of government would come about is one that is too weak to institute a proper democratic government, instead being forced to kowtow to parahumans with fancy titles to appease their undeserved sensibilities of importance.
at least Lisa can die,that make her more human then Zach,he will probably outlive the earth forever running to a different reality like he's doctor who,he cant have kids because of his powers because human reproduction is meaningless to shard reproduction.it's even questionable if he's even ageing like us any more.the fact is Lisa is lucky because she's still part of the natural of things. Zach is less human then Dragon.Errrrrr.
When Vicky said that, she was implying that the only meaning in Lisa's life is Taylor's happiness. Literally. Lisa has NO ONE, NO THING, NO WHERE, NO REASON to live life other than Taylor. Second Triggers break people. Lisa was already broken.
I'm pretty sure this has been implicitly if not explicitly stated in earlier chapters.
... Aren't Endbringers multidimensional? Like, that's how they manage to be so impossibly dense? Or am I misremembering? I ask because fucking with a single dimension won't do a whole hell of a lot to something that exists in seven simultaneously. So the Yang Ban is going to sac a city and do nada. Yay. Don't copy Discord, like turning into a giant snake, there is no problem where it actually helps.
When did that happen? I must have missed the chapter where they killed Scion effortlessly...
Is the gift... boxes? Am I missing something, is it a cultural thing?It was a smaller box. A couple long boxes, I realized. "They're a matching pair, for you and Taylor." I lifted one out. It had a lovely rendition of a globe on it. I found the other was shaped like a scarab beetle, wings open.
Wouldn't they keep to the current standard naming convention? 'Earth (insert Hebrew (I think it's Hebrew...) number here)'
I doubt that any member of Pantheon is ever going to grow old...at least Lisa can die,that make her more human then Zach,he will probably outlive the earth forever running to a different reality like he's doctor who,he cant have kids because of his powers because human reproduction is meaningless to shard reproduction.it's even questionable if he's even ageing like us any more.the fact is Lisa is lucky because she's still part of the natural of thing. Zach is less human then Dragon.
Even Gods must die...the earth will die someday from whatever disaster,i really don't think Zach even knows how to use Resurrection tech if he's the last person on a intact earth.Snake/Eater Oh please. Like ANY member of Pantheon is going to die to TIME without wanting to. Somebody made a list of credible threats to Pantheon recently, old age is not on that list.
I'm not sure how you could believe this unless you've just ignored history entirely.
Humans are flawed creatures. The more power you concentrate in a human the more these flaws are magnified through their behavior. The more a government does this the more inferior it is.
Parahumans are even more flawed. They're people that in normal cases have extreme psychological damage and have giant alien space whales plugged into their brains that promotes more extreme attitudes and guides them towards conflict. Conflict is the last thing society needs.
The thing about democracy is that it simply doesn't work when Thinkers come into play. It starts from the core assumption that all people are roughly equal. When you have people like Accord and his ability to come up with workable solutions to seeming intractable solutions in hours, or Tattletales ability to derive obscene amounts of data from minimal input, the opinions of different people stop being equally valid.
Is the gift... boxes? Am I missing something, is it a cultural thing?
Yes, that's what I expect from them in their situation.Democracy mitigates people's flaws and protects against the abuse of power at the cost of everything else. Considering that Pantheon is composed of a bunch of Idealistic teenagers that are trying to save the world and have the technology to hypothetically live forever I highly doubt their government is going to be entirely democratic. They may install a democratic government to manage day to day things and represent the people but if they don't give themselves of Presidential (Monarchical? Imperial? Deific?) Veto of no small power I'll eat my hat.
Which is why they're going to fully migrate over to their shards. Right after they find Manton's shard and link it up to all the others ones.Even Gods must die...the earth will die someday from whatever disaster,i really don't think Zach even knows how to use Resurrection tech if he's the last person on a intact earth.
Still, even with that in mind I still think exploring the involvement of AI in government is a great idea.
They
Rey
Missing "you"?
Italics
Maybe an "I lifted a pendant out" or something? The class of object (necklace, sceptre, plaque, "resting" Norwegian Blue, scroll, etc) contained in the boxes is never stated and so it seems a lot of us have been defaulting to the last stated object class, leading to confusing as fuck mental images involving nested, interlocking boxes.We were down to just Trevor and Lisa, and Lisa simply smiled and waved in his direction. It was a smaller box. A couple long boxes, I realized. "They're a matching pair, for you and Taylor." I lifted one out. It had a lovely rendition of a globe on it. I found the other was shaped like a scarab beetle, wings open. "They're meant to lock together," he informed us. Taylor and I fiddled with it for a little bit before figuring it out, but he was right. The final product had the beetle sitting on the globe and shielding it with the wings.
And this is at least feasible. While Echidna got taken over by her shard that had a different personality than her, one interpretation of Taylor near the end is that she's being run by QA who things that it's Taylor, and Copacetic is running with that theory. I can totally imagine them migrating over to their shards, deliberately or not. Actually, someone doing that accidentally would be interesting, in that they wake up after dying and having their body restored with the resurrection tech, and somehow has memories beyond their last backup.Which is why they're going to fully migrate over to their shards.
Democracy mitigates people's flaws and protects against the abuse of power at the cost of everything else. Considering that Pantheon is composed of a bunch of Idealistic teenagers that are trying to save the world and have the technology to hypothetically live forever I highly doubt their government is going to be entirely democratic. They may install a democratic government to manage day to day things and represent the people but if they don't give themselves of Presidential (Monarchical? Imperial? Deific?) Veto of no small power I'll eat my hat.
Dragon is still bound by her restriction to obey the laws of whatever country she's in, right? If Pantheon thinks about this in conjunction with the whole "Sovereignty Birthday Present" this could present some really interesting possibilities, both in terms of helping Dragon, and for Zach and others to play pranks.Yes, that's what I expect from them in their situation.
Still, even with that in mind I still think exploring the involvement of AI in government is a great idea.
"Oh, that's simple. Members of Pantheon will of course be worshiped as the only true gods.""Fair enough," he replied. "While we're on the subject of legal rights, your stance on religious freedom?"
And, Pantheon has figured out the best way to make a country: outsource the thinking to professional Thinkers. Also, the line at the end is spot-on with the best way to stop problems: make it so that people "don't want to become problems". The Romans called it "Bread and Circuses", and seems like Pantheon knows how to get it to work. Also, the whole "give Earth Avalon's Japan to the Japanese" is brilliant.Lisa replied. "We will enforce strictly protected equal rights for everyone, and beyond that we're just going to leave it to our individual nations. In fact, the brilliant part of this system is we can do that with almost everything. Our function here is basically the same as on Bet. We exist to eliminate problems and make sure others don't want to become problems."
Should be italics.
Oh boy. "Yes," Rapture spoke. "We've developed a mass production system for what are, essentially, perfect lie detectors." SurpriseAnticipation. "In essense, your legal system will never be held back by the need to consider whether a criminal is actually guilty or not. With exception to parahumans who might have resistance to the tech through any number of possible methods. They'll be considerably more difficult to handle, but are fairly rare."
"As such," Dragon responded. "Law will focus on determining the extent of punishments appropriate for particular crimes. A less costly and more streamlined affair. It will provide equal protection thanks to unbiased, AI systems. Although determining a punishment for a given crime will be handled by jury, guilt itself can never be in doubt and no agency will be able to cover up a crime's occurance. Although investigative work will likely still be needed to find criminals quickly, citizens will be required to regularly submit to an automated interview to catch people whose crimes have gone unnoticed."