Amelia, Worm AU [Complete]

[Jackercracks]

To be honest, I think the best thing to do if we're designing a healthy society from scratch that contains Parahumans is ritualised Roman-style duelling. Stick Colleseums up all over the place and codify the unwritten rules such that Parahuman disputes can be settled in the ring, mostly non-lethal with penalties to the loser. Conflict outside of the ring is treated mercilessly by Pantheon if it is within city limits. Birdcage, ejection back to earth bet, whatever. It doesn't really matter where they go so long as they don't get to stay. Shards get the conflict that they love, parahumans get renown as fighters and gain experience in combat, normal people get a great show from up in the seats, collateral damage is kept to a minimum, everyone wins. Pay the Parahumans for their fights, give them big fancy sponsorship deals and treat it like sports. Have group battles so thinkers and synergy powers can still contribute. Have Ultimate Tinker Tech Warzone on fridays and Royal Rumble on wednesdays. It's not perfect, but it means that Parahumans can all have their needs met without having to turn to crime or other silly things. I mean, seriously, there were what, 30-40 parahumans in canon brockton bay? A city of 400,000 was it? Make them all millionaires and it's still waaaaay cheaper than the cost of all the conflict they cause.

Democracy works on the fundamental assumption of equality. I'm not sure if it's still the best once that assumption no longer holds. The problem with trying to have normal humans in charge is that they don't stay in charge. The playing field is so massively unfair that they simply don't get a look in in any kind of long term thing.

Take the USA for example: basically controlled in all but name by two thinkers (Contessa & Number Man) and Cauldron. They still technically have a Democracy, but it's more or less irrelevant for matters relating to combat or really anything particularly important. They have the trappings of Democracy, but only for things like infrastructure and economy. International decisions, Endbringers, War, policy and anything else they happen to particularly want happen. The Parahumans currently hold an absolute veto and semi-absolute voting power, it's just not official. Remember that scene in Canon where everyone meets at Cauldron's place to discuss Khonsu, know who was absent? The president of the USA. He doesn't get a say in those decisions. Brockton Bay is another example. It was well on its way to being completely controlled by Calvert. One way or another, Parahumans will be the ones in the driving seat. Dream girl nearly managed it, there will be stranger powers out there that allow for a good attempt at assuming control once the prize is command of a planet. Cherish possibly could have done it even with the powers they have today. Cherish + Dream Girl I think could probably manage it.

I vote for AI government, anyways. Also, New Babylon and Pangea sound the best so far.

Edit: Oh cool the chapter came out while I was writing. I like the plan, could do with more Colosseums.

 

[Slayer Anderson]

I will now partake in the newly established Avalonian Traditional Happy Dance.

I'll say I *mostly* called it, but got the para human involvement wrong.

Also, I may implode from poly-sci history squeeze, so you'll have to excuse me now.

 

[Divabot]

Edit: Oh cool the chapter came out while I was writing. I like the plan, could do with more Colosseums.

Click to shrink...

The staged fights thing is an obvious and sensible idea. The only fic I can think of that's done that is Oracle.

 

[Hexed999]

TanaNari, if I made a PHO omake/interlude discussing Avalon, what are the chances of it being made canon? Would the chances decrease if there a few posters had the tag (Pantheon Loyalist) and came across as somewhat fanatical?

 

[jaelin910]

Unfortunately, the land Israel / Palestine are on is the point of contention, otherwise Pantheon could offer to solve that problems too.

Click to shrink...

could they not offer that land on Earth Bet to one side and give the corresponding area of land on their world to the other?
and if they're determined to each be the one to get the land on Bet, have them draw lots or something.

 

[Student of Zelretch]

All hail the Pantheon of Avalon... Kepri, what's the odds I could get a nice little place by Lake Superior?

 

[TanaNari]

Interesting chapter though, wondering how those AI laws might affect Dragon in particular as she did aid in making them.

Click to shrink...

Quite nicely, actually. Some of the bylaws cover using a being's physical or mental limitations as a means of coercion. And several that would most obviously cover, say, someone like Blasto making sapient slave labor. In effect, she's constitutionally obligated to disobey any command she believes should be disobeyed.

TanaNari, if I made a PHO omake/interlude discussing Avalon, what are the chances of it being made canon? Would the chances decrease if there a few posters had the tag (Pantheon Loyalist) and came across as somewhat fanatical?

Click to shrink...

Probably pretty good, depending on your skill. But, recognized or not, Avalon won't be publicly known until after a few countries get portals of their own. By the time Avalon, or indeed ANY portal world, gets announced... the USA will have three (all to the same world, mind), Canada will have two, and several will dot Europe (order of priority based on population and need figured out by the UN). Other parts of the world pending.

... It's one of their stipulations, and a smart one for other countries to have. There's a lot of reasons to want to bail from Bet, and a lot of colony worlds that will become available soon. They didn't want to give Avalon too much of an advantage in moving a population.


Pantheon was okay with that for a couple reasons.

One: The whole "brand new earth" is kinda conspicuous consumption. This is the kinda shit that would start a fucking war or three if you can't point at other nations already having their own.

Two: it would take decades for any other country to migrate a suitable, sustainable, and technologically modern colony population.

Avalon gets "poke the ground, your house will grow there, and you can eat the walls if you really feel the desire to". So in terms of sheer capacity to sustain growth, they have no competition. They'll be able to establish modern industry while almost everyone else is at "log cabins and hunting buffalo".

Either way... ass/u/me it's a few months ahead of the current story.

Kepri, what's the odds I could get a nice little place by Lake Superior?

Click to shrink...

"Low. This planet didn't have much of an ice age, so no Great Lakes."

 

[Aeselon]

Question. Have they built in oceans? Or is the whole planet covered by super tree?

 

[Hexed999]

Probably pretty good, depending on your skill. But, recognized or not, Avalon won't be publicly known until after a few countries get portals of their own. By the time Avalon, or indeed ANY portal world, gets announced... the USA will have three (all to the same world, mind), Canada will have two, and several will dot Europe (order of priority based on population). Other parts of the world pending.

Click to shrink...

How long (in and out of universe) until the public announcement is made? If it's the next chapter or so and before the start of December I'll post the thread and just go back and fix any continuity errors that may pop up. Otherwise I'll sit on it and either do a conspiracy thread or just wait until the public announcement is made. Either way there's plenty of public reaction/flame war material to work with.

 

[TanaNari]

Question. Have they built in oceans? Or is the whole planet covered by super tree?

Click to shrink...

The planet came with its own oceans. Although they're somewhat highly toxic to human life, still. Don't want to drink.

How long (in and out of universe) until the public announcement is made? If it's the next chapter or so and before the start of December I'll post the thread and just go back and fix any continuity errors that may pop up. Otherwise I'll sit on it and either do a conspiracy thread or just wait until the public announcement is made.

Click to shrink...

In universe? It'll be spring by the time the gateways go public. Out here? Dunno. Less than a week, probably. We've got the Nilbog chapter. A Faultline interlude. Another Endbringer.

 

[Hexed999]

In universe? It'll be spring by the time the gateways go public. Out here? Dunno. Less than a week, probably

Click to shrink...

In that case I'll hold off for a bit. Might do the conspiracy thread, try my hand at writing crazy.

 

[GiftofLove]

In that case I'll hold off for a bit. Might do the conspiracy thread, try my hand at writing crazy.

Click to shrink...

It's easy. Be paranoid about something then stick to your guns no matter what contradicts it.

 

[Asunder]

This may have been already discussed but wasn't there WOG that Scion would react badly to offworld travel? or was that just space and other dimensions are fine.

 

[Inverness]

To be honest, I think the best thing to do if we're designing a healthy society from scratch that contains Parahumans is ritualised Roman-style duelling. Stick Colleseums up all over the place and codify the unwritten rules such that Parahuman disputes can be settled in the ring, mostly non-lethal with penalties to the loser. Conflict outside of the ring is treated mercilessly by Pantheon if it is within city limits. Birdcage, ejection back to earth bet, whatever. It doesn't really matter where they go so long as they don't get to stay. Shards get the conflict that they love, parahumans get renown as fighters and gain experience in combat, normal people get a great show from up in the seats, collateral damage is kept to a minimum, everyone wins. Pay the Parahumans for their fights, give them big fancy sponsorship deals and treat it like sports. Have group battles so thinkers and synergy powers can still contribute. Have Ultimate Tinker Tech Warzone on fridays and Royal Rumble on wednesdays. It's not perfect, but it means that Parahumans can all have their needs met without having to turn to crime or other silly things. I mean, seriously, there were what, 30-40 parahumans in canon brockton bay? A city of 400,000 was it? Make them all millionaires and it's still waaaaay cheaper than the cost of all the conflict they cause.

Click to shrink...

That seems interesting. There would be many edge cases though. You have to consider that most people are being manipulated into fighting in the first place. Is it valid to satisfy the shards like that instead of going after the root of the problem somehow? Consider people like Burnscar who get majorly mindfucked.

Democracy works on the fundamental assumption of equality. I'm not sure if it's still the best once that assumption no longer holds. The problem with trying to have normal humans in charge is that they don't stay in charge. The playing field is so massively unfair that they simply don't get a look in in any kind of long term thing.

Click to shrink...

Normal humans would stay in charge because they're backed by parahumans that want them in charge.

This is in the short term of course. Doubtlessly technology will advance to the point where parahuman powers are more understood and they can be combated directly by normal humans with advanced technology. At that point the line between parahumans and humans becomes almost invisible. If you have an unequal society you'd begin to see break-downs at that point, assuming the parahuman leaders didn't actively suppress technological advancement.

It would be a bad idea to suppress that sort of advancement though, since it's what will deliver the solutions for killing the other Entities infesting the universe. They're a distant future problem but still something humanity will have to confront somewhere down the line.

 

[CptTagon]

solar energy surrounding region

Click to shrink...

solar energy surrounding the region.

 

[Sheaman3773]

Something I wanted to mention before but didn't want to clutter up the omake with was that I hope that they do a better job of not only protecting people's rights to practice religion but also protecting people's rights from other people practicing their religions. So sick of that crap.

could they not offer that land on Earth Bet to one side and give the corresponding area of land on their world to the other?
and if they're determined to each be the one to get the land on Bet, have them draw lots or something.

Click to shrink...

Even if you get people who believe that the same location will be equally sacred or promised across realities, you'll never have a perfect split between the two on who's going and who's staying.

The best option would probably be to get the disenfranchised to move over, but you will not get everyone to accept that it's equivalent, even if you disregard the whole "more resources but not developed" aspects.

In effect, she's constitutionally obligated to disobey any command she believes should be disobeyed.

Click to shrink...

...I can't decide if that's a ridiculous loophole or just affording her the ability to disregard orders and receive consequences for it like everyone else.

Now that I type it up, the latter seems more likely.

This may have been already discussed but wasn't there WOG that Scion would react badly to offworld travel? or was that just space and other dimensions are fine.

Click to shrink...

Yes, there is a WoG to that effect.

They don't want people leaving the planet they're working with. A very good reason to have an avatar like Scion around. Probably wouldn't draw his notice until people with shards started leaving in any greater number.

Click to shrink...

It doesn't touch on dimensional travel, but since the shards were sent off so long ago, and aimed at the Bet dimension in particular...there might be a sharp drop in first-gen triggers.

As for Scion involvement, well. That could be quite interesting.

 

[Inverness]

Well there are parahumans in other dimensions, like that one with the trump Empress that likes blue.

 

[Lubaf]

To be honest, a vast amount of the law is contract and tort law (since a lot of lawsuits are about "who should pay for this unexpected expense?"). Criminal law, in the usual course, is a minor consideration compared to it.

That being said, "who should pay" disputes are manageable on a "state" level, for the most part. Just be aware that "international" disputes over who owes who what are going to be a thing on Avalon, and between Earth Bet and Avalon. It's important, but it's probably something that can be partly put off since parahuman conflict means they need to deal with disincentives for criminal behavior first.

Just an issue to be aware of in future.

Thanks
Luc "First Post Here" French

 

[Navrin]

I'm going to guess that at least some of those portals are going to have a railway set up to massively increase the number of people and quantity of supplies they can ship through by an exceptionally large amount. Probably a lot easier to deal with than any other kind of bulk-transport, and it can be scaled up relatively readily.

 

[dasstan]

Lisa finally lost the battle and started cackling. "Oh gods us," she gasped. "You should see your faces! In fact, this meeting is being recorded, so I'll be happy to show you your faces, just as soon as I'm done making a slide show of it to cheer myself up when I feel like it."

Click to shrink...

ftfy

Unfortunately, the land Israel / Palestine are on is the point of contention, otherwise Pantheon could offer to solve that problems too. And that would certainly cause an international incident, which they're definitely looking to avoid. I wonder what's up with the Middle East anyways, after Behemoth showed up in Iran, and what Israeli cape culture is (or if capes are just part of Israel's military).

Click to shrink...

Not...really? The Palestinians get one Earth, the Israelis get another. They literally never have to interact ever again, if they don't want to. The real problem is convincing them to abandon the battle on Earth Bet.

So, clearly, Pantheon needs to blow it up, while framing China. That way everyone gets behind the "China doesn't get a planet" plan.

 

[Snake/Eater]

they could have a reservation on avalon for former C.U.I. Citizens only with a mandate that they shall never govern themselves or seek political office.

 

[Hexed999]

PHO Omake


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■
♦Topic: A New World? (LOCKED)
In: Boards ► Theories ► Conspiracy ► World ► Pantheon
Acolyte (Original Poster) (Cape Groupie) (Pantheon Loyalist)
Posted on October 12, 2011:
Early August/Late July Pantheon began utilizing a new form of teleportation technology. Intially it seemed to be just like any other, except for the fact that there appeared to be no limit to how much they could transport and how far it could go. On August 15th they transported a massive army that no one had seen before from a unknown location and then saved the lives of several capes by teleporting them to an unknown location, saving them from the Simurgh's final strike.
Like everything Pantheon does, their teleportation devices are shrouded in mystery. Where did they store their army of beasts? Where did Minerva and Chariot take the capes they saved and why did they return to New Dehli?
I've heard rumors from the tinker community that Pantheon's devices are immune to regular anti-telepotation countermeasures. One tinker got his hands on one of their devices and made a post claiming it was closer to Haywire's technology then a teleporter. The post was deleted and no one's heard from him since.
And now closed door meetings are being held across in the highest levels of government. Meetings on everything from colinization plans to Interdimensional politics to the sovereignty of a Parahuman State.
It is clear that Pantheon has discovered a new world and remade it in their image and our Overlords are doing their best to get a slice of the pie. The only question is what do we do?
I for one will be immigrating to Pantheon's world at the first available opertunity. The chance to escape our oppressors and enter Pantheon's loving embrace shoudl not be passed over.
THIS THREAD HAS BEEN LOCKED, ANY POSTS MADE HERE WILL BE DELETED IMMEDIATELY AND THE POSTER WILL BE BANNED FOR ONE DAY

(Showing Page 30 of 31)

► Judge (Moderator)
Replied on October 16, 2011:
Pantheon has done nothing but protect and aid people and has proven essential to preserving our rights and freedoms, including developing a extremely effective anti-master drug. The claim that they are intending to take over and "put the people with real power in charge" is extremely offensive and completely unfounded. Enjoy your ban.
► Zero Sum
Replied on October 16, 2011:
You clearly haven't seen Pantheon in action. If they wanted control of BB, or the New England for that matter, they would have it.
► Judge (Moderator)
Replied on October 16, 2011:
Not helping
► Stone Face
Replied on October 16, 2011:
This is all very interesting but can we get back to the topic at hand? All evidence that Pantheon has access to an alternate universe is both flimsy and circumstantial. While I'm not putting anything past them I'd like to see some hard evidence before I assume they have a spare world.
► Acolyte (Original Poster) (Cape Groupie) (Pantheon Loyalist)
Replied on October 16, 2011:
Just like a shill, to deny the evidence that is right in front of you. Pantheon is more powerful then they let on and the government is trying to cover it up so you don't realize that there's a better option then letting them grind you into the dirt.
► Acolyte (Original Poster) (Cape Groupie) (Pantheon Loyalist)
Replied on October 16, 2011:
Just like a shill, to deny the evidence that is right in front of you. Pantheon is more powerful then they let on and the government is trying to cover it up so you don't realize that there's a better option then letting them grind you into the dirt.
*User as recieved an infraction for this post*
► Judge (Moderator)
Replied on October 16, 2011:
Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're a shill
► Chrome
Replied on October 16, 2011:
Yes, because a bunch of teenagers who think they're gods are a way better option then our rightfully elected leaders.
► Acolyte (Original Poster) (Cape Groupie) (Pantheon Loyalist)
Replied on October 16, 2011:
If you think we actually have a say in who gets elected then you're dumber then I thought.
► Chrome
Replied on October 16, 2011:
Says the guy whose too dumb to avoid double posting. If we're not choosing who gets elected, who is? The lizard people? Giant alien space whales? Democracy is a tried and tested method that protects us from one that one person with power who wants to screw us over. History has shown us that every time power is handed to one person they go mad with it. And that's without Big Sister seeing your every move through her creepy bugs. Pantheon has too much power as is and sooner or later they're going to decide that they need more for the "greater good". They need to be restrained now, before it's too late.

End of Page. 1, 2, 3 ... 28, 29, 30, 31
(Showing Page 31 of 31)

► Newter (Verified Cape)
Replied on October 16, 2011:
Man I wish I was the secret power behind the government, that would be awesome
► Stone Face
Replied on October 16, 2011:
Man where the hell did Judge go? This is getting bad, fast.
► Acolyte (Original Poster) (Cape Groupie) (Pantheon Loyalist)
Replied on October 16, 2011:
Maybe Pantheon should seize power, they've certainly shown that they have the ability to get things done. I bet that if they took over we'd be looking at cleaner cities, less crime and a fuckload of dead Endbringers. They're certainly more suited for the task then anyone you voted for
► Chrome
Replied on October 16, 2011:
And what are you going to do when they decide that regualr humans aren't good enough for their new and better future? Just shug and submit to modification? Pantheon has shown time and time again that the're willing to pervert nature to complete their goals. Right now they're sticking to big emergencies but what happens when they kill the last S-Class threat? They'll look for other ways to imporve things and decide that humans would be better if they were a little less human. They've already started experiments with Acesco. And what about behaviour modification? Do you think Blasto and Accord just gave up crime because Pantheon asked them to? Why would they imprison criminals when they can "reeducate" them? I guess you think free will's overrated.
► Ekul (Banned)
Replied on October 16, 2011:
*Your post has been deleted, you are not a member of the PRT, you haven't killed 300 C.U.I. agents and the tech guys assure me you can't trace anyone's IP. This is the fifth time you've attempted to derail a thread with this stupid, violent rant of yours despite our warnings and temp bans. You are no longer welcome on this site*
► Acolyte (Original Poster) (Temp-banned) (Cape Groupie) (Pantheon Loyalist)
Replied on October 16, 2011:
The day you get reeducated I'll fucking celebrate
► Chrome (Temp-banned)
Replied on October 16, 2011:
Ha, you'll probably sacrifice yourself to your "gods" before that ever happens
► Judge (Moderator)
Replied on October 16, 2011:
I step away from to computer to have dinner and come back to this. I'm giving you both a month and half to cool down and I'm locking this thread. The only people who know what Pantheon can do is Pantheon and the lot of you seem incapable of speculating civilly. 31 pages of this crap is more than enough.
End of Page. 1, 2, 3 ... 29, 30, 31



So this derailed far faster then I expected it would, apparently crazy and discussion just don't mix

 

[Daunmi]

Thread gets locked. Good thing because if you post in the locked thread it gets deleted and you get banned.

 

[Peanuckle]

I imagine if a thread that contentious got made, it would simply be deleted and prevented from being remade. Rather than leaving all the speculation up there for the world to see.

citizens will be required to regularly submit to an automated interview to catch people whose crimes have gone unnoticed."

Click to shrink...

This bit is what made me realize how different Avalon would be. America has stuff like the 5th amendment to stop this, but over there you'd have omnipresent law enforcement. Depending on how thorough the laws become, this could be a remarkable peacekeeping device or a hideous mark of tyranny. I mean, consider some of the laws that we just ignore or wave off, stuff where a cop would tell you to "just don't do it again" rather than haul you in. Whether this interview is good or bad depends entirely on the system interpreting the results.

I mean, imagine if everyone had to honestly answer whether or not they've pirated something. Piracy fines are pretty damn high, and while they've technically broken the law, the punishment would break them.

It's probably just an off-hand descriptor of what the nation would be like, but it sticks out to me as a major defining aspect. Even though I'm not a criminal, I don't think I'd want to live in a place where I had to go to government confession every week to assure them that I've been a good citizen.

 

[Faraway-R]

Ekul?

Reverse for "Luke"? Is it a Skywalker reference?

EDIT:
Peanuckle I don't think it will be quite so bad.

There will probably be a questionnaire that covers felonies and similar life-threatening and/or traumatizing actions. Like terrorism. And it will probably have a "what's your intent with that" clause. Also, it's not the lie detectors that mete out punishment, it's the jury. So "I crossed an empty street to save a minute" is probably going to be a slap on the wrist.

Probably the first couple of questions I'd ask in that interview would be:
"Did you commit any serious crimes since your last interview?" - because riding the bus without paying the ticket is totally not a crime serious enough to ping on this.
"Did you plan, or commit, any act that caused significant harm to someone?"

 

[Divabot]

The posters maybe, but I'd hope the PHO Moderators' spelling and typing was better than that ...

 

[Hexed999]

Ekul?

Reverse for "Luke"? Is it a Skywalker reference?

Click to shrink...

Possibly, I grabbed it from the list of canon users

 

[Hexed999]

The posters maybe, but I'd hope the PHO Moderators' spelling and typing was better than that ...

Click to shrink...

It's more of a thing where my spelling and grammar is crap and the PHO generator doesn't have spell check. If you spot any spelling or grammar mistakes "Judge" made let me know and I'll fix them.

 

[BlackBulletOfSeven]

Not gonna lie.

Kinda bummed out that he named it Avalon.

Also can someone clear this up? Are Pantheon moving the Japanese to Avalon? Or are they essentially replacing Bet's Japan with Avalon's?

 

[Zarohk]

To be honest, a vast amount of the law is contract and tort law (since a lot of lawsuits are about "who should pay for this unexpected expense?"). Criminal law, in the usual course, is a minor consideration compared to it.

That being said, "who should pay" disputes are manageable on a "state" level, for the most part. Just be aware that "international" disputes over who owes who what are going to be a thing on Avalon, and between Earth Bet and Avalon. It's important, but it's probably something that can be partly put off since parahuman conflict means they need to deal with disincentives for criminal behavior first.

Click to shrink...

This is only tangentially related, but I can totally imagine Carol squeeing when Amelia makes her Attorney General of Avalon, only to find herself having to write a new set of contract and tort law from scratch. And watching Carol Dallon and Allen Barnes fight it out over the laws of either all of or some part of Avalon. Which made me wonder if legal battles are enough conflict for Alexandria, Lisa, or any other Thinkers. And now my headcanon is that Carol became a lawyer as an outlet for the conflict drive of her Shard. Except that it didn't work, since Victoria's powers don't seem to be a bud of Carol's, more similar to other members of New Wave.

 

[dasstan]

Also can someone clear this up? Are Pantheon moving the Japanese to Avalon? Or are they essentially replacing Bet's Japan with Avalon's?

Click to shrink...

They're inviting the Japanese people on Earth-Bet to take over Earth-Avalon's Japan. Since the Earth-Bet Japan is A) Missing an island, and B) A third world country.