Amelia, Worm AU [Complete]

[Asunder]

So...has Taylor truly given up beefcake? And will mad science result in Taylia moving to the next level?

 

[dasstan]

So...has Taylor truly given up beefcake? And will mad science result in Taylia moving to the next level?

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The impression that I got is that... beefcake just doesn't provide the level of depth she's used to. The Taylia bond provides her with a deep, emotional connection, and it's been going on for months. Even without going and getting brain surgery to make herself gay, it's more than enough to condition her preferences accordingly.

While I don't think that it's gone so far as to manipulate her sexuality completely, I do think that any appreciation she has towards muscles is now simple an aesthetic one, rather than a sexual one.

 

[dxdragon]

Hmm, what's the chance of Amelia creating a male-appendage or a male-clone beefcake of herself to make things with Taylor easier?

Like, next Backup has gender swapped ala Eric.

 

[Daunmi]

So...has Taylor truly given up beefcake? And will mad science result in Taylia moving to the next level?

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It sounds like she still recognizes it and appreciates it on some level, but as far as her priorities are concerned, Amelia is more important, more supportive and not just eye candy (actually, what's the latest on that one, is Taylor appreciative of Amelia's looks?). At least that's how I've read it.

And will mad science result in Taylia moving to the next level?

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It already did. Amelia turned it down, remember?

Something tells me TanaNari isn't going that route though. Not so much that he couldn't, just that it seems far too obvious since it's virtually being thrown in our faces, and TanaNari isn't usually like that.

Then again, maybe I'm looking at this too complicatedly? Taylor and Amelia's relationship is, in their own words multiple times, nobody else's business but their own. They probably wouldn't want to have Chevalier around frequently to combine them, though I've got no idea how long his power works on people, or what their Thinkers/Tinkers could pull off with all their readings.

Hmm, what's the chance of Amelia creating a male-appendage or a male-clone beefcake of herself to make things with Taylor easier?

Like, next Backup has gender swapped ala Eric.

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Probably quite low. They're not together for sex after all. They're together for each other, as they currently are, so I don't think it would work out without squiking the hell out of both of them.

 

[Finbar]

That.....is a really really terrifying ability.

To combine people like that.

Yeah, thats Trump 8 right there. Without going into the Ethical implications.

 

[GiftofLove]

Look what I can do!

-Stuffs Eidolon and Legend together-

Now no need to worry about mover and brute powers! Pure offense baby!

 

[dasstan]

Look what I can do!

-Stuffs Eidolon and Legend together-

Now no need to worry about mover and brute powers! Pure offense baby!

Click to shrink...

Legend's Husband: Hey! Only I get up in that.

edit: Also, to horn in on Snakey's schtick...

Spoiler: Song choice

 

[Snake/Eater]

Legend's Husband: Hey! Only I get up in that.

edit: Also, to horn in on Snakey's schtick...

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plz,i encourage it.there should be a Amelia playlist by now..everyone horn in and put music and make playlists,

 

[dasstan]

plz,i encourage it.there should be a Amelia playlist by now..everyone horn in and put music and make playlists,

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To be fair, my suggestion was just a teensy bit tongue in cheek.

 

[Snake/Eater]

To be fair, my suggestion was just a teensy bit tongue in cheek.

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i figured,i was hoping you had my sister's (terrible) taste in music....

 

[kenhikaru]

I'm assuming some kind of dimensional redirection shenanigans. Sting doesn't do anything if you can avoid getting hit.

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I doubt it, if only because Minerva thought Lily getting involved was a really really bad idea. Just avoiding the damage from the Sting isn't enough.

Jesus Christ. That's terrifying. I can't wait for Amelia and Taylor to do it. Taylia in mind and body.

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Taylia was literally the only thing I could think about when reading this.

It already did. Amelia turned it down, remember?

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Amelia didn't turn it down, she freaked out and broke the connection, probably because it reminded her of what she did to Victoria. They made up later, but Taylor died and was restored to a backup, with only a note from herself that the change was bad, not knowing that they'd made up within a matter of days.

 

[TanaNari]

plz,i encourage it.there should be a Amelia playlist by now..everyone horn in and put music and make playlists,

Click to shrink...

A friend of mine pointed out a bunch of Tatu songs that fit.

Fly on the Wall (A song that everyone should listen to at least once, if only to see it be even more stalkerific than Every Breath You Take)
Sacrifice
All About Us
You and I

.... Well, I guess there are worse options. And I think there were others, I'd have to ask.

 

[WizardTwo]

This is a bit odd. Surely they realise that since they aren't the originals, when they die, its basically a new person, in the sense of continuity of conciousness who wakes up?

Theo died on that table, and a new Theo who is also Theo will wake up. But that Theo is dead. Its like, if I was told that an exact copy of me was going to be awoken the moment I died, I wouldn't suddenly take more risks, it would be great, because for my family, they wouldn't have to be without me, but I myself would be dead.

Its not immortality, its cloning. I'm all for using and abusing the shit out of it when someone dies fighting, or accidentally, but cold bloodedly murdering someone and replacing them with a clone yourselves seems...

Well, I'm sure this has been discussed before, this just stood out to me because they all just got together and decided to kill one of their own. I think its the first time they've decided to use their 'immortality' in this way? They've heroically suicided before, but I don't think they've asked another member of their group to die before?

 

[Snake/Eater]

This is a bit odd. Surely they realise that since they aren't the originals, when they die, its basically a new person, in the sense of continuity of conciousness who wakes up?

Theo died on that table, and a new Theo who is also Theo will wake up. But that Theo is dead. Its like, if I was told that an exact copy of me was going to be awoken the moment I died, I wouldn't suddenly take more risks, it would be great, because for my family, they wouldn't have to be without me, but I myself would be dead.

Its not immortality, its cloning. I'm all for using and abusing the shit out of it when someone dies fighting, or accidentally, but cold bloodedly murdering someone and replacing them with a clone yourselves seems...

Click to shrink...

you have a point,it's not true resurrection tech.

 

[abyssmal_kismet]

This is a bit odd. Surely they realise that since they aren't the originals, when they die, its basically a new person, in the sense of continuity of conciousness who wakes up?

Theo died on that table, and a new Theo who is also Theo will wake up. But that Theo is dead. Its like, if I was told that an exact copy of me was going to be awoken the moment I died, I wouldn't suddenly take more risks, it would be great, because for my family, they wouldn't have to be without me, but I myself would be dead.

Its not immortality, its cloning. I'm all for using and abusing the shit out of it when someone dies fighting, or accidentally, but cold bloodedly murdering someone and replacing them with a clone yourselves seems...

Click to shrink...

It's a matter of philosophy. I, personally, feel the mind and all it contains is more important than some silly concept of continuity of consciousness. If I have a clone of me that is exactly the same as me in all regards, then they are, effectively, me, whether or not this meat-puppet is still alive at the same time or not.

It's about like the mental experiment of the teleportation device that works by scanning you completely, duplicating you, and then destroying your original body. I would use and abuse the shit out of such a device in order to get around easily. That being said, I fully understand why other people feel different.

 

[TanaNari]

Theo died on that table

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Uh... no he didn't.

At least, not permanently. Maybe that whole "died on the operating table, was brought back" stuff, but not actually died.

There's Riley, Emma, and Amelia in that room with him.

Why would the idea of something like that being lethal with any of them right there even cross your mind?

I love how routine that was.

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Thanks. At that point, she'd been following him around for almost a hundred hours... it had become pretty predictable.

I liked more how she echoed Lisa's claims from a different bank robbery, a long time ago. So much irony in that.

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Also thanks. I was hoping that'd be noticed.

Will Sophia become relevent to the story, or will the interlude be done just because?

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No.

Riley's internal thoughts are very cute.

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I did my best.

 

[WizardTwo]

Uh... no he didn't.

At least, not permanently. Maybe that whole "died on the operating table, was brought back" stuff, but not actually died.

There's Riley, Emma, and Amelia right there in that room with him.

Why would the idea of something like that being lethal with any of them right there even cross your mind?

Click to shrink...

Honestly speaking, I don't really understand the whole scene in general, so I may have missed a few things. I don't really get why what they're doing is going to heal Zak and my understanding was that what they were doing was folding Zak and Theo together in such a way as to share or transfer their wounds? I assumed this meant that theo was getting hit with sting. Which yeah, I thought was lethal.

That's why I assumed he was dead, even with the rest of them in the room.

It's a matter of philosophy. I, personally, feel the mind and all it contains is more important than some silly concept of continuity of consciousness. If I have a clone of me that is exactly the same as me in all regards, then they are, effectively, me, whether or not this meat-puppet is still alive at the same time or not.


It's about like the mental experiment of the teleportation device that works by scanning you completely, duplicating you, and then destroying your original body. I would use and abuse the shit out of such a device in order to get around easily. That being said, I fully understand why other people feel different.

Click to shrink...

I agree that a clone of you is essentially you, but I disagree in that I consider it a DIFFERENT you.
This is because you can have two of you operating at the same time, and they will not be sharing a conciousness. They are effectively two different instances of the same person. That means that one instance can terminate and the other instance will survive and you have technically survived, but one instance of you... one being who was once you, has ceased to exist. They have died. They won't ever think anything ever again. They won't ever love, feel happy, experience something new. They're gone.

If I died tomorrow, and my clone took over my life, to everyone else, I would still be alive. But I myself would be dead. I wouldn't ever be able to play another game of dota or read a book.

That terrifies me. I don't want to die. I want to continue to live and experience things forever. I don't want someone else to experience them for me, even if that person is another me.

I'd still use the technology, because that kind of immortality is better than none at all, but only very slightly from my perspective. From the perspective of other people who loved me though, its almost perfect.

 

[TanaNari]

I don't really get why what they're doing is going to heal Zak and my understanding was that what they were doing was folding Zak and Theo together in such a way as to share or transfer their wounds?

Click to shrink...

This, pretty much. Zach's power doesn't counter powers with cross-dimensional effects. So he can use portals, Sting works on him at all, and Chevalier can "fold" him.

I assumed this meant that theo was getting hit with sting. Which yeah, I thought was lethal.

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Sting doesn't work that way. Sting crosses all barriers and defenses and does more damage to matter than it rightly should.

But once the power part wears off... it's no different than any other injury (beyond the part where what caused the injury is impossible), and can heal normally. Just like when Flechette left that piece of metal behind in Taylor's shoulder in canon.

They could have healed Zach normally if his power didn't counter all the things they tried.

 

[WizardTwo]

This, pretty much. Zach's power doesn't counter powers with cross-dimensional effects. So he can use portals, Sting works on him at all, and Chevalier can "fold" him.

Sting doesn't work that way. Sting crosses all barriers and defenses and does more damage to matter than it rightly should.

But once the power part wears off... it's no different than any other injury (beyond the part where what caused the injury is impossible, and can heal normally. Just like when Flechette left that piece of metal behind in Taylor's shoulder in canon.

They could have healed Zach normally if his power didn't counter all the things they tried.

Click to shrink...

Cool, thanks for explaining.


To other people:
Here's an example to explain what I mean about this type of immortality a bit better as well.


Lets say, that tomorrow, aliens invade. These aliens are shapeshifters and telepaths. They live by taking over the lives of other people.

The evening of your wedding, you are assaulted in your home and knocked unconcious. You wake up, tied up in a room, and are forced to watch on video as what appears to be an exact clone of you, with all of your memories, marries your fiancee.

Another alien comes into the room, and explains to you that the 'you' in the mirror was an alien who copied all your memories and suppressed or erased his own to blend in better, and that you were now unneccesary. Then it slits your throat and you die choking out.

But its okay. You're immortal after all. You've just married your wife right? Its not like someone else took over your life. They have the same memories and the same body after all! Its just you!

Not very comforting as you choke in your own blood right?

Yes, its contrived, but its an attempt to explain the issue. You are a distinct conciousness, and when that conciousness ends forever, you have died. That's how I consider the issue.

I recognise that the way I see the issue is not the same as the authors, or more importantly, not the same way the characters in the piece see the issue, but I just thought that even they would feel more conflicted about asking one of their own to possibly die.

 

[Daunmi]

Lets say, that tomorrow, aliens invade. These aliens are shapeshifters and telepaths. They live by taking over the lives of other people.

Click to shrink...

Doesn't match up. They take over other people's lives. As in, those other people have no say in the matter whatsoever, as opposed to someone making a choice to have a clone made that would fulfill the rest of the points.

Other than that, I'm staying the fuck away from this mountain of opinions and moralities and questions of self. This probably isn't the place to have it either, so at least lets all try to stay civil.

 

[cosoco]

Cool, thanks for explaining.


To other people:
I found an example to explain what I mean about this type of immortality a bit better as well.


Lets say, that tomorrow, aliens invade. These aliens are shapeshifters and telepaths. They live by taking over the lives of other people.

The evening of your wedding, you are assaulted in your home and knocked unconcious. You wake up, tied up in a room, and are forced to watch on video as what appears to be an exact clone of you, with all of your memories, marries your fiancee.

Another alien comes into the room, and explains to you that the 'you' in the mirror was an alien who copied all your memories and suppressed or erased his own to blend in better, and that you were now unneccesary. Then it slits your throat and you die choking out.

But its okay. You're immortal after all. You've just married your wife right? Its not like someone else took over your life. They have the same memories and the same body after all! Its just you!

Not very comforting as you choke in your own blood right?

Yes, its contrived, but its an attempt to explain the issue. You are a distinct conciousness, and when that conciousness ends forever, you have died. That's how I consider the issue.

I recognise that the way I see the issue is not the same as the authors, or more importantly, not the same way the characters in the piece see the issue, but I just thought that even they would feel more conflicted about asking one of their own to possibly die.

Click to shrink...

If the martian is actually identical to me, in mind and body, then sure, it's me. If not, then not. Drawing the line at interrupted consciousness seems ridiculous. Have you also died when you sleep?

Also, it strikes me that we're talking about two different, but similar questions. "Has X died?" and "Is X dead?" For example, Taylor has died, (there was a point where her brain stopped processing information) but Taylor is not dead (there is currently a meat android that responds to the name Taylor).

 

[WizardTwo]

Doesn't match up. They take over other people's lives. As in, those other people have no say in the matter whatsoever, as opposed to someone making a choice to have a clone made that would fulfill the rest of the points.

Other than that, I'm staying the fuck away from this mountain of opinions and moralities and questions of self. This probably isn't the place to have it either, so at least lets all try to stay civil.

Click to shrink...

That's the point. The only thing differentiating this is that they consent to have a copy of themselves made to live their life. Remove that consent, and their life has been stolen. WITH consent, they're consenting to have someone else (who is identical to them) live their life if they die. Its wonderful for everyone else, but not so great for them.

As far as this not being the place for discussions on the morality of transhumanism: QQ is tolerant of offtopic tangents. It specifically says so in the rules. You have to get back on topic if the thread author or a mod asks you, but that's all. Tanari may ask, or he may tolerate it. I don't know. But its up to him in the end.

Either way, if my example doesn't convince people, I have no other way to explain my point, so I won't be continuing the discussion anyway.

 

[Ack]

If the martian is actually identical to me, in mind and body, then sure, it's me. If not, then not. Drawing the line at interrupted consciousness seems ridiculous. Have you also died when you sleep?

Also, it strikes me that we're talking about two different, but similar questions. "Has X died?" and "Is X dead?" For example, Taylor has died, (there was a point where her brain stopped processing information) but Taylor is not dead (there is currently a meat android that responds to the name Taylor).

Click to shrink...

Note that they don't blithely go, "Oh, it's okay, I'll just kill myself, and I'll be good in the morning."

The backups are there to be backups. So if, despite all their precautions, they do die without any chance of being revived, a copy of them can be installed with all the memories of the original and continue on. Taylor did it to herself deliberately because (a) she knew she'd screwed up with Amy, and (b) it was the only way to be rid of Butcher.

Note that Zack's powers do this to him automatically. Oni Lee, in canon, also does this every time he teleports - only he loses a little tiny bit of himself each time.

 

[tordg]

I agree that a clone of you is essentially you, but I disagree in that I consider it a DIFFERENT you.

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That's true, but it doesn't matter because the whole concept of continuity of consciousness is an illusion anyway. Namely in that people lose consciousness ALL THE DAMN TIME; every time you fall asleep or get knocked out you are said to "lose consciousness" for a reason, and your brain goes through some pretty big changes when asleep. And then there are the arguments about what happens when you orgasm or even just get distracted, though I admit I'm not all up on the research there. Not that this knowledge makes this whole thing any less weird or scary. And you do have a point about how concurrent existence is a can of worms that we kind of want to avoid opening without A LOT of careful thought. It has been shown, however, that there's a really big subset of cases where that is much less scary than other things that we deal with on a regular basis.

Note that they don't blithely go, "Oh, it's okay, I'll just kill myself, and I'll be good in the morning."

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Like that! Given how we choose to go to sleep on a regular basis that's mostly a matter of willfull ignorance, which just further goes to show how scary our basic existence remains.

 

[cosoco]

Note that they don't blithely go, "Oh, it's okay, I'll just kill myself, and I'll be good in the morning."

The backups are there to be backups. So if, despite all their precautions, they do die without any chance of being revived, a copy of them can be installed with all the memories of the original and continue on.

Click to shrink...

Agreed.

Oni Lee, in canon, also does this every time he teleports - only he loses a little tiny bit of himself each time.

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I think you've identified an interesting edge case. It would be strange to say that he dies every time he teleports - from his perspective his perception is uninterrupted - but what happens to him is bad.

For the purposes of terminology, maybe we should say that he experiences a little death after every teleport.

 

[WizardTwo]

That's true, but it doesn't matter because the whole concept of continuity of consciousness is an illusion anyway. Namely in that people lose consciousness ALL THE DAMN TIME; every time you fall asleep or get knocked out you are said to "lose consciousness" for a reason, and your brain goes through some pretty big changes when asleep. And then there are the arguments about what happens when you orgasm or even just get distracted, though I admit I'm not all up on the research there. Not that this knowledge makes this whole thing any less weird or scary. And you do have a point about how concurrent existence is a can of worms that we kind of want to avoid opening without A LOT of careful thought. It has been shown, however, that there's a really big subset of cases where that is much less scary than other things that we deal with on a regular basis. Like that! Given how we choose to go to sleep on a regular basis that's mostly a matter of willfull ignorance, which just further goes to show how scary our basic existence remains.

Click to shrink...

There's a difference between 'A conscious' and 'Being conscious'. When I'm using the word, I'm not referring to 'being awake and aware'. I'm referring to a distinct entity, as I believe that each consciousness is its own unique being, regardless of wether there are other beings out there which share its memories.

`Conscious' is also used to discriminate a certain kind of being or agent, one which knows what it is about, which has emotions, etc., e. g., a personal being or agent, as distinct from a stone or a plant. `Consciousness' is then used as short for such a being. It denotes all the knowledges, intentions, emotions, etc., which make up the differential being or activity of such a, being or agent. This practical and empirical reference to a specific thing is seen clearly in sub-sense (a) where `conscious' means intentional, purposive, and (b) where it means undue preoccupation with what concerns, invidiously, one's self (the bad sense of `self-consciousness'). 'Consciousness' thus marks off in general the difference of persons from things, and in particular the characteristic differences between persons,---since each has his own emotions, informations, intentions, etc. No technically philosophical sense is involved.

Click to shrink...

 

[Ack]

... and here's a relevant comic page on the subject. Just for shits & giggles.
Beam me up

 

[GiftofLove]

I think the key point you're missing Wizard, is that Theo isn't laying down expecting to die. The plan is to use Chevalier's ability to essentially replace Zach's heart with Theo's, and then allow Amelia to repair it before he bleeds to death.

They only said that to reassure Chevalier that even if for some crazy reason he dies, despite Amelia, Emma, and Riley being there to operate on him, he won't 'stay' dead.

Of course this doesn't dismiss the quandary with each copy being a different person and functionally gaining nothing from the cloning tech, beyond the assurance that part of them will go on, but that's a thing that can only be solved when their mental records update in real time.

It's functional immortality, not true immortality. To my knowledge none of them have ever claimed otherwise.

 

[Faraway-R]

"Not in the slightest," I replied. "If I were filming you secretly, you'd have a case. But this isn't your property, you're aware of my presence, and I am recording the pursuit of a fugitive. A very, very, slow pursuit. Expose yourself and the only thing that happens is you adding some kind of sex crime to your record. Also, you'll be laughed at by the entirety of my online fanbase, so you probably should think twice. Because, seriously, if I was a guy and mine was that small, that'd be my Trigger event." Not true, if anything he might be a little above average. But he struck me as the kind of guy who'd be upset by a girl insulting his manhood.

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And I guess I know where Victoria could have gotten the idea. The Horribly Slow Murderer with the Extremely Inefficient Weapon.

 

[tilkau]

There's a difference between 'A conscious' and 'Being conscious'. When I'm using the word, I'm not referring to 'being awake and aware'. I'm referring to a distinct entity, as I believe that each consciousness is its own unique being, regardless of wether there are other beings out there which share its memories.

Click to shrink...

.. I don't think anybody is objecting to you having this point of view. It's a known philosophical position on consciousness that is reasonably credible.
And having fears about it, given that you have that view, is perfectly logical.

But the whole question of what the correct position is, is not settled. Thus, when you say that Theo's attitude is wrong, you have made a false statement. There are other credible philosophical positions on this topic, and Theo appears to hold one of them.

Maybe that position is incorrect, but barring author fiat 'consciousness works X way in my story', both of you have equal credibility -- neither position is obviously wrong, but nor is either position clearly correct.