-
The site has now migrated to Xenforo 2. If you see any issues with the forum operation, please post them in the feedback thread.
-
Due to issues with external spam filters, QQ is currently unable to send any mail to Microsoft E-mail addresses. This includes any account at live.com, hotmail.com or msn.com. Signing up to the forum with one of these addresses will result in your verification E-mail never arriving. For best results, please use a different E-mail provider for your QQ address.
-
The rules regarding NSFW links have been updated. See here for details.
Charm Learning Shard (Worm/Exalted) (COMPLETED)
- Thread starter Daniel Snuts
- Start date
Daniel Snuts
Know what you're doing yet?
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2022
- Messages
- 245
- Likes received
- 16,194
Yep, have a cookie. I was hoping I could bait someone into guessing Power-Awarding Prana, but it seems the audience is too familiar with Taylor "Control Issues" Hebert to fall for bait without a Master component.
I'm trying to figure out whether I should object to this statement. I mean, yes, I the author did deliberately arrange the order of events such that he would survive. Because if the transfer had been scheduled slightly earlier, Low Key wouldn't have been equipped to perform a battlefield amputation and his overconfidence would have gotten him killed. So he was saved by the plot ('got lucky', in-universe). But I feel that it's not exactly what 'plot armor' usually means.
There's nothing preventing it mechanically. But you might want to minionize Mannequin first, to build you a self-sustaining habitat module rated for 100+ years of continuous operation.
One request per gift, and it lasts until the request is made, regardless of whether that's tomorrow or 50 years from now. Using it on yourself doesn't trigger the 'karmic debt' part, precisely because of the issue you describe.
Magic falls under Occult, and she already got Occult 5 (sorcerer's sight +3) as part of her exaltation package.
The original charm can't be used on people who haven't paid off the XP cost of the previous gift. But here, without XP? She could.
It can only bestow attributes and abilities (what other systems call 'stats' and 'skills') and specialties, not virtues or intimacies. So in one sense, the answer is "N/A". If you refer to stacking Master effects, soul's price alone did a pretty good job of turning her into a good friend/cringing minion, and Taylor walked away from that without a moment's hesitation - so the answer is still "N/A".
- Joined
- May 27, 2017
- Messages
- 658
- Likes received
- 4,003
Mentos
吸血鬼
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2014
- Messages
- 830
- Likes received
- 5,898
I figure charms would be easier than that, old martial artist meditating for a hundred years without moving/eating/drinking/aging sounds appropriate enough for exalted that there's probably charms to emulate that. I vaguely recall a charm from a FSN cross that let you eat anything and it gives you sustenance, for example. The trickier part is probably the time shenanigans to have a small area go through 100 years in an hour or whatever. Not sure if there's a charm for that.
PlasticSoldier
Experienced.
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2018
- Messages
- 2,577
- Likes received
- 8,947
Definitely seems like a good thing to try.
Zxzx24
I trust you know where the happy button is?
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2020
- Messages
- 790
- Likes received
- 1,946
It isnt "the hand of god reaching down to save hookwolfs life" bad, but it was still astonishingly lucky.
Now if you wanna talk about plot armor theres always Taylor...
L.35
Daniel Snuts
Know what you're doing yet?
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2022
- Messages
- 245
- Likes received
- 16,194
Your date with Ballistic was... okay. You think you successfully hid how unbearable it was having a regular unmasked dinner with his inert power sitting right there taunting you, and you hardly dislocated his arm at all dragging him off to a secluded spot where he could trade supersonic projectiles for post-dinner makeouts. He was rather adorably shy about being spotted, you had to reassure him that in Brockton Bay people would just assume the noise was gunfire and go about their business. He still didn't relax completely even after a series of faint bangs in the distance proved you right.
When you get home, your dad lunges from the couch to embrace you. "Taylor! You're alright!"
"Uh, yes? Should't I be?"
"There have been bombs going off all over the city!" He leads you over to the television, which is playing a special report showing just that.
"Huh. I thought it was just gunfire." You settle down next to him on the couch and try to figure out which of the noises you heard were which buildings blowing up. It's complicated by the way they keep cutting away from the summaries as they get footage of new explosions. Hang on, you recognize the way that concrete is burning.
As does someone else, because soon afterwards they cut away to a Protectorate advisory identifying the culprit: Bakuda, aka the Cornell Bomber. Crazy murderous Tinker and, crucially, half asian by descent. You nod to yourself as everything falls into place. Turns out you overestimated the ABB's cape shortage, and underestimated how upset they would be at losing their boss.
Nothing you can really do about it, though. A glance at the clock shows that it's half past wolf cuddles, and you should be in bed already. You already defeated Lung twice, you can let the heroes do their job for once and take care of his grieving widow.
---
"School is cancelled," dad tells you at breakfast. "They found a bomb at a school."
"Was it Winslow?" you say hopefully. "Did it blow up?"
He shakes his head, trying - and failing - to look like he disapproves of your eagerness. "No, and no. But they shut down every school in the city until they're sure it's safe." He hesitates. "You will be staying home, right?"
"Will you?" you counter.
"I can't-"
"Are you going to a big building full of people, that would make an excellent target?" you ask. "Because I'm going to have a picnic in the woods really far from any buildings at all."
That takes the wind out of his sails just as he was opening his mouth to argue. "Really?"
"Yes."
"Really really? All by yourself?" He seems unwilling to believe that you could be behaving sensibly on your own initiative. A less self-aware person might have taken umbrage at that.
"There may or may not be boyfriends involved," you allow.
He adopts a mock-stern expression. "Just how many boyfriends we're talking about here?"
---
Your picnic preparations get interrupted by a call from ops.
"Low Key. We recognize that there are times when it's appropriate to be coy about the exact nature of one's powers. This is not that time. Exactly how well are you able to spot Bakuda's bombs?"
Ah, one of your co-conspirators must have tattled about your role during the Lung anti-breakout. Not that you can really blame them, seeing as how the heroes are useless and the city is still blowing up.
"It's not x-ray vision, if that's what you're asking. Sure I could spot someone walking down the street carrying a bomb - but you're already turning away all asians by default. If it's already planted inside a building, or in the back of a truck or something, I won't be able to tell."
"Damn. Alright. Just report for duty as normal tomorrow then."
It's interesting to note that it doesn't even occur to them that you might be lying in this situation. Not that you are lying, just saying that it was an interesting thing you noticed.
---
Your date with Ballistic was amazing, because you have discovered the secret of men. Here's the secret: They really like women, and will go out of their way to make them happy. All you had to do was not hide how excited his power made you, and he was falling all over himself to demonstrate it. It's funny that it took you this long to figure it out, but every single power you've acquired to date either belonged to a female cape, or was studied covertly, or both. Clearly you need to go on more dates.
Not that Ballistic - Luke, you should say, now that you've gotten to know each other (you decided that Quicksilver's civilian name was Robin). Not that Luke doesn't have other things going for him, beside his power: He's also a handsome international man of mystery... or should you say, interdimensional?
Ballistic wants to go back to Earth Aleph.
Very mysterious! But you can't ask about it, because interdimensional travel is super illegal, and with his nervous disposition he might panic and do something stupid if you let on that you know. But that's fine, the solution is simply to build up more trust before asking - i.e. more dates.
You also subtly steered the conversation towards childhood memories, and either he's the greatest liar you've ever met, or he doesn't have amnesia - so he probably knows where monster capes come from as well (Earth Aleph!?). Another thing you can't ask about at this point in your relationship.
---
Friday sees no change in the situation. Shit is still blowing up, school is still closed, heroes are still useless. The news claim that Armsmaster has been disarming a majority of the bombs before they explode, but you don't have any way to verify that. "Look at all the buildings that aren't blowing up, that's definitely not because they never had bombs in them in the first place we swear." Still, even if it's true... way to treat the symptoms, guys.
Not that you're complaining all that loudly about getting to spend time with Ballistic instead of Glory Girl. It really is an improvement in every conceivable way. No, it's the villains that rain on that particular parade.
"Shit, I have to take this," you say as the ringtone of your Empire phone goes off. Ballistic - Luke lets out an annoyed grunt as you disentangle yourself from the hot sloppy makeout position and scramble to locate the correct phone. But instead of answering, you decline the call and send them a text.
> Can't talk right now
You could, but Ops and Ballistic are expecting two different voices to come out of your mouth. Your phone chirps with their response.
< Priority mission, call back ASAP
Dammit. With the schools closed you suppose they're free to give you day-time assignments, as it won't impact your education. Complaining is unlikely to help - even beyond the general 'everyone pitches in to help in a crisis' principle, there is probably some sentiment in the Empire that the whole situation is partly your (/Rune's/Hookwolf's/Krieg's) fault. You don't accept that. Yes, if not for you Lung would still be around to rein in the psycho - but if Bakuda wants to throw a two-digit-body-count tantrum over your actions, that's on her.
"Sorry," you tell Luke. "Priority client. If I could tell them to fuck off I would." He sighs, but nods in understanding.
You start to jog back towards your car, modifying your vocal cords as you go.
---
Looks like they found a use for your 'wolf senses' after all: Your mission is to escort a VIP who would rather not make his association with the Empire public. Thus they ordered you to dress in civvies and simply walk next to him - but if you spot the faintest glimmer of tinkertech explosives you're to grab him, toss him on a wolf and gallop the hell away. Survival trumps circumspection.
Personally you think walking around in a baseball cap, sunglasses and a scarf is more conspicuous than just wearing the blank mask of the incognito cape... but nobody asked you, and orders are orders.
---
You were told that the VIP would be waiting for you at the rendezvous point, but when you arrive all you find is a fat little boy. Teenager, whatever. Roughly your own age.
"Um, hi? I'm Theo," he says.
"Four hundred and forty-nine," you respond.
"Oh right. Um... uh... One hundred... One hundred and seven?"
"Ninety-seven," you correct him with a sigh. This is a VIP?
Theo, you quickly discover as you walk across the city and he keeps trying to engage you in conversation, is a loser. Harsh, perhaps, but you spent all of high school at the bottom of the totem pole. You recognize a loser when you see one.
Here's a secret about outcasts: Most were cast out because they're awful to be around. Not even other losers want to hang out with losers, and if they had alternatives none of them would. There is no fellowship of pariahs, they only stick together because they were thrown in the same pit.
It quickly becomes apparent that Theo isn't even a racist. You'd almost think there was some sort of mixup, and the real VIP is standing around getting increasingly impatient as he waits for you to show up. But no, Theo knew you were coming, and he (almost) knew the countersign.
He's certainly expecting you to be a racist, though, because most of the conversation is him trying to 'deprogram' you with all the subtlety of a brick to the face. And he's feeling noble about the attempt. If you were cringing any harder you'd give yourself a hernia. This little shit, who believes exactly and to the letter everything that the schools, government and media want him to believe, is feeling proud of being not indoctrinated.
He's also proud of 'tricking' the Empire, by 'subverting' his assigned escort. But he's so bad at it! He approaches it as if your supposed racism comes from somehow never having heard any arguments against it, despite having grown up with the same aforementioned schools, government and media.
Though to be fair, this is the first time you've heard anyone consecutively argue that race isn't a real thing because hereditary traits don't exist, and that all the really obvious hereditary traits that perfectly match up with classical notions of race are only skin deep and there aren't any that affect anyone's disposition or ability. Because..? He fails to specify how he came to that conclusion. Because the world would be really unfair otherwise, and the world couldn't possibly be unfair? Boy have you got news for him.
Still, you shouldn't let your personal feelings get in the way of business. He is, for some godforsaken reason, important. That means his soul price has strategic value.
Theo wants to lose his virginity.
Right, you're stupid. Teenage loser, male. What the hell did you expect? It goes in the 'achievable' bin, you suppose, but you don't have the power to grant it right now. Some would argue that you're equipped to grant it at any time, but they'd be wrong. First you need to pick up a Master power that removes any and all traces of self-respect, with a Manton limit of 'self only'.
Oh god, is he trying to convert you because he sees you as a potential mate? Do you have enough residual loser-stink on you that he can spot you in turn, and thus considers you attainable? The part of you that delights in misleading people with the truth suggests telling him 'I regret every decision that led me to this point', but the thought of letting this kid believe he succeeded at anything fills you with revulsion.
---
You make it to your destination unexploded. Said destination turns out to be the apartment of a mousy little woman, who is secretly a cape. Well, that neatly explains everything: Theo is someone's very special boy. Christ, not only did he completely fail at refuting the Empire's stance on race, he proved that they were right about single moms too.
You refuse an offer of tea, citing the need to get back to your regular patrol. The woman isn't using her power, so there's nothing to gain by sticking around. You do snag her soul price on the way out, though.
Kayden wants someone to uplift the lesser races so her asshole ex stops being right about them.
...you're going to need a third category for soul prices, that's labelled neither 'well-adjusted' nor 'achievable'.
You wonder who she is. Even without her using her power, you can tell it doesn't match that of any of the capes you've met before. Purity? You thought she'd left the Empire, though. Well, trying times do bring people together, perhaps she's been reconciled in the wake of everything blowing up?
When you get home, your dad lunges from the couch to embrace you. "Taylor! You're alright!"
"Uh, yes? Should't I be?"
"There have been bombs going off all over the city!" He leads you over to the television, which is playing a special report showing just that.
"Huh. I thought it was just gunfire." You settle down next to him on the couch and try to figure out which of the noises you heard were which buildings blowing up. It's complicated by the way they keep cutting away from the summaries as they get footage of new explosions. Hang on, you recognize the way that concrete is burning.
As does someone else, because soon afterwards they cut away to a Protectorate advisory identifying the culprit: Bakuda, aka the Cornell Bomber. Crazy murderous Tinker and, crucially, half asian by descent. You nod to yourself as everything falls into place. Turns out you overestimated the ABB's cape shortage, and underestimated how upset they would be at losing their boss.
Nothing you can really do about it, though. A glance at the clock shows that it's half past wolf cuddles, and you should be in bed already. You already defeated Lung twice, you can let the heroes do their job for once and take care of his grieving widow.
"You're dating a local? Have you given up on getting home?"
"Fuck you, Krouse. Just because you're mooning over a monster-"
"You will not call her that!"
"Stop it you two! Stop it!"
"Fuck you, Krouse. Just because you're mooning over a monster-"
"You will not call her that!"
"Stop it you two! Stop it!"
---
"School is cancelled," dad tells you at breakfast. "They found a bomb at a school."
"Was it Winslow?" you say hopefully. "Did it blow up?"
He shakes his head, trying - and failing - to look like he disapproves of your eagerness. "No, and no. But they shut down every school in the city until they're sure it's safe." He hesitates. "You will be staying home, right?"
"Will you?" you counter.
"I can't-"
"Are you going to a big building full of people, that would make an excellent target?" you ask. "Because I'm going to have a picnic in the woods really far from any buildings at all."
That takes the wind out of his sails just as he was opening his mouth to argue. "Really?"
"Yes."
"Really really? All by yourself?" He seems unwilling to believe that you could be behaving sensibly on your own initiative. A less self-aware person might have taken umbrage at that.
"There may or may not be boyfriends involved," you allow.
He adopts a mock-stern expression. "Just how many boyfriends we're talking about here?"
---
Your picnic preparations get interrupted by a call from ops.
"Low Key. We recognize that there are times when it's appropriate to be coy about the exact nature of one's powers. This is not that time. Exactly how well are you able to spot Bakuda's bombs?"
Ah, one of your co-conspirators must have tattled about your role during the Lung anti-breakout. Not that you can really blame them, seeing as how the heroes are useless and the city is still blowing up.
"It's not x-ray vision, if that's what you're asking. Sure I could spot someone walking down the street carrying a bomb - but you're already turning away all asians by default. If it's already planted inside a building, or in the back of a truck or something, I won't be able to tell."
"Damn. Alright. Just report for duty as normal tomorrow then."
It's interesting to note that it doesn't even occur to them that you might be lying in this situation. Not that you are lying, just saying that it was an interesting thing you noticed.
---
Your date with Ballistic was amazing, because you have discovered the secret of men. Here's the secret: They really like women, and will go out of their way to make them happy. All you had to do was not hide how excited his power made you, and he was falling all over himself to demonstrate it. It's funny that it took you this long to figure it out, but every single power you've acquired to date either belonged to a female cape, or was studied covertly, or both. Clearly you need to go on more dates.
Not that Ballistic - Luke, you should say, now that you've gotten to know each other (you decided that Quicksilver's civilian name was Robin). Not that Luke doesn't have other things going for him, beside his power: He's also a handsome international man of mystery... or should you say, interdimensional?
Ballistic wants to go back to Earth Aleph.
Very mysterious! But you can't ask about it, because interdimensional travel is super illegal, and with his nervous disposition he might panic and do something stupid if you let on that you know. But that's fine, the solution is simply to build up more trust before asking - i.e. more dates.
You also subtly steered the conversation towards childhood memories, and either he's the greatest liar you've ever met, or he doesn't have amnesia - so he probably knows where monster capes come from as well (Earth Aleph!?). Another thing you can't ask about at this point in your relationship.
"So tell me about this girl who has you smiling so much lately. Is she pretty? Smart? A beast in the sack?"
"Jess!"
"Hey, it's not like I get to go out on a lot of hot dates, you know. I need to live these things vicariously. Now give me all the lurid details or I'll guilt-trip you some more."
"Mars, make her stop bullying me!"
"I dunno... you do blush so prettily..."
"He does, doesn't he? And that blush tells me he did something really naughty. Did you tie her up? Spank her?"
"You wouldn't believe me if I told you anyway."
"What was that? You can't just say something like that and not follow it up."
"Yeah, dish!"
"Fine! She gets off on supersonic projectiles, alright? I'm the only man in the world who can satisfy her without a firearms license."
"Ha! Good one."
"You're right, I don't believe you."
"Jess!"
"Hey, it's not like I get to go out on a lot of hot dates, you know. I need to live these things vicariously. Now give me all the lurid details or I'll guilt-trip you some more."
"Mars, make her stop bullying me!"
"I dunno... you do blush so prettily..."
"He does, doesn't he? And that blush tells me he did something really naughty. Did you tie her up? Spank her?"
"You wouldn't believe me if I told you anyway."
"What was that? You can't just say something like that and not follow it up."
"Yeah, dish!"
"Fine! She gets off on supersonic projectiles, alright? I'm the only man in the world who can satisfy her without a firearms license."
"Ha! Good one."
"You're right, I don't believe you."
---
Friday sees no change in the situation. Shit is still blowing up, school is still closed, heroes are still useless. The news claim that Armsmaster has been disarming a majority of the bombs before they explode, but you don't have any way to verify that. "Look at all the buildings that aren't blowing up, that's definitely not because they never had bombs in them in the first place we swear." Still, even if it's true... way to treat the symptoms, guys.
Not that you're complaining all that loudly about getting to spend time with Ballistic instead of Glory Girl. It really is an improvement in every conceivable way. No, it's the villains that rain on that particular parade.
"Shit, I have to take this," you say as the ringtone of your Empire phone goes off. Ballistic - Luke lets out an annoyed grunt as you disentangle yourself from the hot sloppy makeout position and scramble to locate the correct phone. But instead of answering, you decline the call and send them a text.
> Can't talk right now
You could, but Ops and Ballistic are expecting two different voices to come out of your mouth. Your phone chirps with their response.
< Priority mission, call back ASAP
Dammit. With the schools closed you suppose they're free to give you day-time assignments, as it won't impact your education. Complaining is unlikely to help - even beyond the general 'everyone pitches in to help in a crisis' principle, there is probably some sentiment in the Empire that the whole situation is partly your (/Rune's/Hookwolf's/Krieg's) fault. You don't accept that. Yes, if not for you Lung would still be around to rein in the psycho - but if Bakuda wants to throw a two-digit-body-count tantrum over your actions, that's on her.
"Sorry," you tell Luke. "Priority client. If I could tell them to fuck off I would." He sighs, but nods in understanding.
You start to jog back towards your car, modifying your vocal cords as you go.
---
Looks like they found a use for your 'wolf senses' after all: Your mission is to escort a VIP who would rather not make his association with the Empire public. Thus they ordered you to dress in civvies and simply walk next to him - but if you spot the faintest glimmer of tinkertech explosives you're to grab him, toss him on a wolf and gallop the hell away. Survival trumps circumspection.
Personally you think walking around in a baseball cap, sunglasses and a scarf is more conspicuous than just wearing the blank mask of the incognito cape... but nobody asked you, and orders are orders.
---
You were told that the VIP would be waiting for you at the rendezvous point, but when you arrive all you find is a fat little boy. Teenager, whatever. Roughly your own age.
"Um, hi? I'm Theo," he says.
"Four hundred and forty-nine," you respond.
"Oh right. Um... uh... One hundred... One hundred and seven?"
"Ninety-seven," you correct him with a sigh. This is a VIP?
Theo, you quickly discover as you walk across the city and he keeps trying to engage you in conversation, is a loser. Harsh, perhaps, but you spent all of high school at the bottom of the totem pole. You recognize a loser when you see one.
Here's a secret about outcasts: Most were cast out because they're awful to be around. Not even other losers want to hang out with losers, and if they had alternatives none of them would. There is no fellowship of pariahs, they only stick together because they were thrown in the same pit.
It quickly becomes apparent that Theo isn't even a racist. You'd almost think there was some sort of mixup, and the real VIP is standing around getting increasingly impatient as he waits for you to show up. But no, Theo knew you were coming, and he (almost) knew the countersign.
He's certainly expecting you to be a racist, though, because most of the conversation is him trying to 'deprogram' you with all the subtlety of a brick to the face. And he's feeling noble about the attempt. If you were cringing any harder you'd give yourself a hernia. This little shit, who believes exactly and to the letter everything that the schools, government and media want him to believe, is feeling proud of being not indoctrinated.
He's also proud of 'tricking' the Empire, by 'subverting' his assigned escort. But he's so bad at it! He approaches it as if your supposed racism comes from somehow never having heard any arguments against it, despite having grown up with the same aforementioned schools, government and media.
Though to be fair, this is the first time you've heard anyone consecutively argue that race isn't a real thing because hereditary traits don't exist, and that all the really obvious hereditary traits that perfectly match up with classical notions of race are only skin deep and there aren't any that affect anyone's disposition or ability. Because..? He fails to specify how he came to that conclusion. Because the world would be really unfair otherwise, and the world couldn't possibly be unfair? Boy have you got news for him.
Still, you shouldn't let your personal feelings get in the way of business. He is, for some godforsaken reason, important. That means his soul price has strategic value.
Theo wants to lose his virginity.
Right, you're stupid. Teenage loser, male. What the hell did you expect? It goes in the 'achievable' bin, you suppose, but you don't have the power to grant it right now. Some would argue that you're equipped to grant it at any time, but they'd be wrong. First you need to pick up a Master power that removes any and all traces of self-respect, with a Manton limit of 'self only'.
Oh god, is he trying to convert you because he sees you as a potential mate? Do you have enough residual loser-stink on you that he can spot you in turn, and thus considers you attainable? The part of you that delights in misleading people with the truth suggests telling him 'I regret every decision that led me to this point', but the thought of letting this kid believe he succeeded at anything fills you with revulsion.
---
You make it to your destination unexploded. Said destination turns out to be the apartment of a mousy little woman, who is secretly a cape. Well, that neatly explains everything: Theo is someone's very special boy. Christ, not only did he completely fail at refuting the Empire's stance on race, he proved that they were right about single moms too.
You refuse an offer of tea, citing the need to get back to your regular patrol. The woman isn't using her power, so there's nothing to gain by sticking around. You do snag her soul price on the way out, though.
Kayden wants someone to uplift the lesser races so her asshole ex stops being right about them.
...you're going to need a third category for soul prices, that's labelled neither 'well-adjusted' nor 'achievable'.
You wonder who she is. Even without her using her power, you can tell it doesn't match that of any of the capes you've met before. Purity? You thought she'd left the Empire, though. Well, trying times do bring people together, perhaps she's been reconciled in the wake of everything blowing up?
Alucard 109
Not too sore, are you?
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2021
- Messages
- 384
- Likes received
- 3,779
Okay, I'm usually on the author's side when it comes to questionably racist things, but that was a little too far for me. It pretty heavily implied he's wrong for not being racist. I would have really preferred if there was a line in there about how just because he's right doesn't mean he's not making stupid, counterproductive arguments, rather than just acting like he's flat out wrong.
Requiem_Jeer
I trust you know where the happy button is?
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2016
- Messages
- 867
- Likes received
- 10,241
Well, it's now true that Taylor is now a full blown white supremacist. When your internal monologue looks like that, there is no possible counterargument.
That said, Theo and Kayden were both incredibly on point.
That said, Theo and Kayden were both incredibly on point.
passislisk
Know what you're doing yet?
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2019
- Messages
- 231
- Likes received
- 1,095
I think this Taylor actually is racist now though? Earlier in the thread someone had mentioned how the join group -> adopt beliefs/behaviors pipeline is similar here to with the Undersiders in canon. I'm guessing this is meant to be a narrative element and will either be a source of conflict directly when it clashes with her old beliefs, or morphs into her new "I'm a god now" persona we have seen some bits of. I suppose the question is whether the story will become unreadable as a result of the MC becoming unlikeable and racist. It definitely loses a lot of the MC underdog charm from Worm, because nobody likes Nazis enough to care if they are unfavored in a fight.
Dakkah
Know what you're doing yet?
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2022
- Messages
- 217
- Likes received
- 904
Brutal
Edit:
passislisk Didn't she already more or less adopt a "You're all equally worthless" mentality to people that are, well, useless to her.
So far only Lisa, (with potentially Rune, and Vista) managed to avoid the pump and dump scheme Taylor has been peddling.
Last edited:
Eyemore
The brain may be lined with eyes
- Joined
- May 4, 2021
- Messages
- 915
- Likes received
- 6,933
Can't be racist if all races are equally mortal, and thus leagues beneath the notice of those blessed by [E SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN TH]
Edifier
Trusted within thoughts.
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2017
- Messages
- 4,555
- Likes received
- 12,888
Aisha too. Aisha is in deep. And digging ever deeper.
Theos soul price is easy, but cringe. Maybe come back to it when he stops being a mortal.
Tho I would say Vista failed to escape the pump and dump scheme, cause Taylor explicitly endeed the friendship by revealing that yes, she in fact is an empire criminal now according to PRT public record.
Tho that is not to say that that is what Vista thinks and that she hasn't been looking for an oppurtunity to have a secret meetup.
As for Rune... Taylor has no choice with Rune cause pumping Rune is seemingly going to take a year. Tho considering the time it's taking, betcha it'll be a high level exalt power.
Last edited:
Placeholdername
Know what you're doing yet?
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2015
- Messages
- 174
- Likes received
- 2,169
I don't read this as Taylor being racist at all, more that she's become a Taylorist so to speak, with a worldview which continues to become more divorced from general humanity as she acquires more powers. There is Taylor, there are those she cares about (her dad, Fenrir...er, that's about it), there are useful people (parahumans she hasn't power copied yet, minions, helpful parahumans), and then there is everyone else, who she doesn't seem to give two shits about, whether they're white, black etc.
gustyeagle
Know what you're doing yet?
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2014
- Messages
- 238
- Likes received
- 1,583
Does buying him a prostitute count as getting his soul's price?
Edifier
Trusted within thoughts.
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2017
- Messages
- 4,555
- Likes received
- 12,888
You're a genious!
Could also deligate it to the prime minion, Aisha, considering the stack of master powers she's under.
Requiem_Jeer
I trust you know where the happy button is?
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2016
- Messages
- 867
- Likes received
- 10,241
And given how invested Theo is in being considered non-racist, he'd probably go for it.
That said, this IS the SFW version of the forum, so I'm pretty sure prostitution of minors is verboten.
That said, this IS the SFW version of the forum, so I'm pretty sure prostitution of minors is verboten.
Idoneior
Getting out there.
- Joined
- May 17, 2015
- Messages
- 21
- Likes received
- 201
Jesus christ, man, is it too much to ask that an actual anti-racist character who's broken away from a racist upbringing would actually have well-thought-out points? Look some up online if you can't think of any.
I'm willing to tolerate a lot in the service of an interesting power exploration, but this story is making me feel increasingly dirty to read, and not in a remotely fun way. I think I'm done here.
I'm willing to tolerate a lot in the service of an interesting power exploration, but this story is making me feel increasingly dirty to read, and not in a remotely fun way. I think I'm done here.
goricnac
I trust you know where the happy button is?
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2018
- Messages
- 608
- Likes received
- 4,673
It is amazing seeing how much further this fic will sink in trying to portray nazis as the least objectionable faction. how much further will the rabbit hole go? How much worse will the train wreck get? Keep reading and find out
Johan Krakowski
Venerable Daoist
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2019
- Messages
- 164
- Likes received
- 3,341
I don't think most people know enough about any topic to be able to debate well, even when they are correct. Theo not being a racist despite his parentage in no way has to mean he has deeply thought out well constructed arguements against nazi talking points. Personnaly knowing some people who have become less racist over time, its usually a result of interpersonal experiences, not logic or rationality.
Anonymous Brainwash
Ex-Lurker
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2020
- Messages
- 4,997
- Likes received
- 22,308
It's like My Hero Acadamia. The villains have some good points, anyone who brings up those points have to deal with being associated with the fucked up villains. It would be like Bin Laden arguing for free health care
In this case it's more of an inverse of that. Taylor's problem isn't that Theo isn't racist, it's that he grew up in a racist environment, and he can't make a decent counter argument, even though he should know all of the main talking points.
There is a reason it's called a counter argument. You are supposed to counter your opponents points. Which you can only do well if you understand them. Theon's upbringing is ideal for arguing against racism cause he should know how to find the BS in any argument the average racist makes.
Not to mention, Taylor wasn't saying shit racist. She was just keeping her mouth shut and doing a job.
It's like dealing with a religious person explain that it's good to do good things, because of religion. The argument of doing things just for the sake of religion is bad, but it is good to do good things. Doesn't mean you wouldn't be annoyed by the religious person making shitty arguments
In this case it's more of an inverse of that. Taylor's problem isn't that Theo isn't racist, it's that he grew up in a racist environment, and he can't make a decent counter argument, even though he should know all of the main talking points.
There is a reason it's called a counter argument. You are supposed to counter your opponents points. Which you can only do well if you understand them. Theon's upbringing is ideal for arguing against racism cause he should know how to find the BS in any argument the average racist makes.
Not to mention, Taylor wasn't saying shit racist. She was just keeping her mouth shut and doing a job.
It's like dealing with a religious person explain that it's good to do good things, because of religion. The argument of doing things just for the sake of religion is bad, but it is good to do good things. Doesn't mean you wouldn't be annoyed by the religious person making shitty arguments
Aravis
Not too sore, are you?
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2018
- Messages
- 415
- Likes received
- 3,216
Ehhh... I think Taylor might classify as a racist based on humanity being a race, which she is superseding, lol. Also, are there minor differences in physical characteristics based on ancestral geographic location? Yes. Are they relevant to how you are treated as a person? Nope. Well, they shouldn't be at least, lol.
Really liking the story! It interesting to see such a different view point, let alone how warped Taylor is becoming.
Really liking the story! It interesting to see such a different view point, let alone how warped Taylor is becoming.
CatOnFire
Magically Malicious
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2017
- Messages
- 308
- Likes received
- 1,961
Have you ever read Worm? Outside of Faultline's Crew the Neo-Nazis are the least objectionable faction.
The Undersiders were always a self centered group of thieves that Canonically were completely OK with Coil doing whatever sick twisted shit a wanted to a 12 year old girl if they got what they wanted.
The Merchants where the most reviled gang for a reason. They send a bunch of drugged out losers and some random people they found in pit to fight to the death for some Cauldron Vials.
Lung had sex slaves, didn't care the Bakuda was making his people into suicide bombs and sold capes to the CUI dispite hating thier guts because he not only lacks a moral compass he is a narcissist on a level that rivals Heartbreaker.
The Heroes. Outside of Aegis, Velocity, Browbeat, Flettchlet, Vista and maybe Dauntless. They are all Stupid, Evil or a combination of the two. Assault broke people out of prison because he found the birdcage to be immoral but he was happy to give that up because a 17 year old girl was willing to put out. Armsmaster ego is so big that he killed Kaiser and attempted to kill Skitter during an Endbringer battle just because they were in the way of his destiny to kill Leviatan, breaking the Endbringer truce. Miss Militia practically is a Nazi seeing as how she will follow any order given to her. Either that or she has as much will power as Oni Lee. Piggot's a bigot. I could go on and on.
Uber and Leet are both pretty awful people with one tantrum away from murder at all time it's like those Asshole Xbox trash talkers were given power to cause havok.
You might be able to find some hope in New Wave. And yes Lady Photon, Laserdream, Pancrea and Sheilder seem to be on the level. The other 4 are 3 flavors of f***ed up.
Kaiser's group are white supremacists with powers. And outside of alot of big talk, shooting at other gangs, having ties Gellescraft and dog abuse you really don't see that much about them being as shitty as anyone else. Usually less shitty with the bonus they go to every Endbringer battle which, other than Armsmaster, sometimes Dauntless and the adults of New Wave, none of the other listed parahumans do.
Enough rambling I've wrote 400+ words on a phone to pretty much come to the conclusion: yes Neo-Nazis, Faultline's Crew and the Lady Photon half of New Wave are the least objectionable factions in Brockton Bay.
Idoneior
Getting out there.
- Joined
- May 17, 2015
- Messages
- 21
- Likes received
- 201
Yes, I agree it is in fact plausible that Theo could have rejected his parents' racist beliefs and nonetheless never developed or encountered any good logical arguments against them. And there are surely plausible reasons in terms of his thought processes why he wouldn't have presented Taylor with justifications that make sense based on his personal experiences rather than the poorly-understood or poorly-thought-out logical arguments he was attempting to use.
Or maybe he actually didn't even have good personal justifications and was just rejecting racism because he decided, atypically, to side with the norms of society over his own family without carefully considering the merits of those points. There are people in the world who do that, after all. It would just be too bad that the one person encountered in this story who turned against prior racist beliefs didn't really understand why that was the right thing to do. Such things happen.
There's all sorts of plausible justifications for any specific incident in this story in which violent Nazis are presented in a good light or their opponents are presented in a poor light. Those things do happen, after all. No one is entirely good or entirely bad, so it's possible we're just seeing incidents that highlight the bad parts of some people and the good parts of others.
There's an endless parade of such plausible justifications.
Yet, oddly, justifications at least as plausible for presenting the Nazis as bad and their opponents as good never seem to come into effect here, even when excellent opportunities for writing the story that way arise. The perspectives of innocent people harmed by racist actions aren't shown, and when those perspectives are referenced it isn't in a fashion that would be expected to draw much reader empathy. People fighting racism are shown to be incompetent, ineffectual, and prone to sweeping up innocents in their anti-racist campaign—a campaign whose basic justification is never really even shown or described.
Seriously. When Taylor warns black people away from Empire territory, it's treated as a joke. "Ha ha, aren't they so silly to think that as American citizens they have a right to go where they choose in public and patronize the stores there and maybe even get jobs without fear of being beaten up or murdered." How are those black people supposed to feel about this? Aisha and Brian are characters—how do they feel about this? Not how they feel about the fact that Taylor is a Nazi and hence "automatically" judged as bad—about the fact that the Nazis are bad because they do genuinely bad things that Aisha and Brian have personally suffered from, and they have good reason to judge Taylor poorly for aiding and associating with such people.
It's human nature for people to be affected by what they read, at at least a subtle level. Constantly presenting racist arguments which are superficially plausible and which come from characters shown in a positive light, and never presenting effective counters to those arguments, while also often presenting ineffective counters to those arguments coming from characters shown in a negative light, is naturally going to make readers feel more positive about racism. It takes effort on the part of the reader to counter this influence: to constantly remind yourself why these arguments and the people making them are wrong because the author isn't making it easy.
This is surely going to be especially true for readers who haven't encountered similar racist arguments in the past and might think, "you know, that seems pretty reasonable. Maybe there's a point to it." And that's a problem, because prevalence and acceptance of racism has very concrete and very significant bad consequences for individuals and society as a whole. I shouldn't need to belabor these.
I don't think it's too much to ask that a story not make the world a worse place for having been written and published.
The only reason I'm writing all this is because I really am disappointed. The author had some excellent ideas behind this story. It's had a lot of good points, and I've enjoyed reading those good points. But I've started skimming the latest chapters because the racism is just too much. And even skimming it has become unpleasant enough, lately, that I don't think I can stomach reading more.
I'd actually been looking forward for a long time to Taylor pulling the rug out from under the Empire: the moment when she lets them know they're horrible people, and she's been using them all along, and they fell for it. My thought was that as her deception kept building, and building, their ultimate comeuppance would be all the sweeter at the end. Anticipating that light at the end of the tunnel has kept me reading despite the increasingly uncomfortable parts.
I'm finally resigned to the understanding nothing like that is going to happen.
- Joined
- May 27, 2017
- Messages
- 658
- Likes received
- 4,003
Don't do this
So when is the manifesto coming out?
Yeah, pretty much. They're either a racist or a closet racist.
