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Coronavirus COVID-19 Pandemic

TrAiT0r said:
Why can't those people get the vaccines? Not like it was hard to make an appointment, right? At least, not where I'm sitting in Europe or in the US, going by what friends have told me. Seemed like there were so many CDC-or-equivalent vaccination centers that it felt like there was one every 200 meters.
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Can't because they have a weak enough immune system that the vaccine could be fatal. As Amazon Climber said, it would have taken you less than 30 seconds to look this up yourself.
 
TrAiT0r said:
This might be on me for only going through the last 5 pages instead of all 55 but I don't understand the people in this thread. All the screeching about evil anti-vaxxers and how they should all be dead. Why do you people care so much?

When this entire debacle happened, remember all the politicians yelling that you're "safe" and "protected" and that you can't transmit the virus once you get jabbed? So if you people are oh so safe, then why do you care so much about people who aren't? Isn't it their own choice to take the risk? I don't get why you people are so manic about it.
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There are a number of reasons. Perhaps most importantly, they sabotage herd immunity, letting the virus rampage through populations that it otherwise wouldn't be able to penetrate.

Y'see, getting infected doesn't just endanger you. It endangers everyone around you.

Secondly, you're repeating a rather blatant form of the Nirvana fallacy, in that no credible source claimed... well, pretty much anything you just listed. Getting jabbed leaves you comparatively protected, but not fully immune. You can still get sick from COVID (although you're less likely to die or suffer serious after-effects). If you're driving safely, and properly using your seatbelt, why should you care that other people aren't?

Well, the answer becomes relatively obvious when that drunk driver slams into your car -- or the idiot without a seatbelt goes flying around the car in a crash and breaks your neck with his leg.

(Not a hypothetical, by the way: This is the actual reason why we have seatbelt laws. I was describing the events of a crash video I had to watch back in college.)

Thirdly, as noted, they're not just influencing their own behavior. Many of these people are discouraging or preventing other people (e.g. their kids) from getting vaccinated.

Fourthly, as also noted, antivaxxers tend to also have (and spread) other dangerous medical beliefs. Over the course of my career, I've had to -- among other things -- try to lobby against an antivaccine-inspired chain of clinics dedicated to chemically castrating children with disabilities, track down a network of antivax parents who were having pig whipworm eggs smuggled in from Thailand so they could deliberately infest their kids with porcine intestinal parasites, and deal with parents who were trying to give their kids "all-natural," "alternative" protection from childhood diseases (measles, mostly -- this was before COVID) by making them drink week-old urine.

This is an incomplete list.

On the more tragic side of things, I've also dealt with parents who refused the Vitamin K shot at birth (because any injection obviously has to be a vaccine and they don't want their kid vaccinated against their will) and then had said kid die or suffer permanent brain damage from bleeding... which they then blamed on "stealth vaccines" supposedly given to the kid against their will.

Fifthly, the antivaxxers are, in fact, assholes.

TrAiT0r said:
Why can't those people get the vaccines? Not like it was hard to make an appointment, right? At least, not where I'm sitting in Europe or in the US, going by what friends have told me. Seemed like there were so many CDC-or-equivalent vaccination centers that it felt like there was one every 200 meters.
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Which means jack shit if you're immunocompromised or undergoing chemotherapy. When we talk about people who can't get vaccinated, we're not usually talking about access to the vaccine: We're talking about people who medically can't get vaccinated.
 
TrAiT0r said:
As for the autism, all I know is that I got all the usual childhood vaccines and have been diagnosed with aspergers. Don't know if that was what caused it or if I had it anyway. My sample size is 1 and as such, not exactly much of a benchmark.
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The idea that any vaccine can cause autism was invented by two former doctors, one was trying to set up a way to sell different vaccines from the ones he said caused autism and the other who claimed that he could cure autism with medicine made from his own bone marrow. The first doctor lost his medical license for, among other things, depraved indifference to the pain he was causing to children while trying to fake up some evidence for his get rich scheme, the other lost his license for stealing way too many narcotics for personal use.

The idea was created by a conman and a crazy junkie and idiots just eat it up to explain away why they have autistic children.
 
MadGreenSon said:
The idea that any vaccine can cause autism was invented by two former doctors, one was trying to set up a way to sell different vaccines from the ones he said caused autism and the other who claimed that he could cure autism with medicine made from his own bone marrow. The first doctor lost his medical license for, among other things, depraved indifference to the pain he was causing to children while trying to fake up some evidence for his get rich scheme, the other lost his license for stealing way too many narcotics for personal use.

The idea was created by a conman and a crazy junkie and idiots just eat it up to explain away why they have autistic children.
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Wakefield wasn't the origin of the hypothesis for all that his study popularized the idea. He was literally paid to make up evidence.

The second one wasn't responsible for making it up either. The thimerosol hypothesis started with a unqualified and notably antivaccine parents publishing a notoriously sketchy article in a notoriously sketch "medical journal" dedicated to unsubstantiated speculation... which was then held out as "proof" because, well, it was an article in a medical journal, right?
 
MadGreenSon said:
The idea that any vaccine can cause autism was invented by two former doctors, one was trying to set up a way to sell different vaccines from the ones he said caused autism and the other who claimed that he could cure autism with medicine made from his own bone marrow. The first doctor lost his medical license for, among other things, depraved indifference to the pain he was causing to children while trying to fake up some evidence for his get rich scheme, the other lost his license for stealing way too many narcotics for personal use.

The idea was created by a conman and a crazy junkie and idiots just eat it up to explain away why they have autistic children.
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Honestly, the fact that antivaxxers both keep spreading this easily- and repeatedly-disproven hoax and, by association, the belief that autistic kids would be better off dead, is enough reason for me to wish we'd give them a choice between "the jab" and a nice dose of potassium chloride.
 
Amazon Climber said:
Honestly, the fact that antivaxxers both keep spreading this easily- and repeatedly-disproven hoax and, by association, the belief that autistic kids would be better off dead, is enough reason for me to wish we'd give them a choice between "the jab" and a nice dose of potassium chloride.
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Though it is ironic that you would advocate murder to deal with people who advocate murder.
 
zup said:
Though it is ironic that you would advocate murder to deal with people who advocate murder.
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Self-defense is ironic?

I'm both autistic and diabetic. They want me dead and fully intend to kill me.

EDIT: Okay, I'm being a little tongue-in-cheek here, but a belief that autistic folks are better off dead is inherent to the autism justification. You can believe that vaccines cause autism with your whole heart, but still be pro-vax, because you'd rather have an autistic kid than a dead one. But the next step - vaccines cause autism, therefore we shouldn't vaccinate - requires you to believe autism is worse. And I am already out of sympathy for people who believe that, if my parents really loved me, they'd have let me get tuberculosis.

As for trying to kill me? Like I said, I'm diabetic. I'm high risk for Covid complications as-is, and it'll only get worse as I get older. Antivaxxers do not give a fuck. They don't care if grandma and grandpa die, or if their little baby niblings (or their own little babies, which just baffles me) wind up permanently disabled, so I'm not surprised. But unlike low-risk people, I don't have the luxury of just shrugging it off.

If you refuse to get the Covid vaccine, or refuse to mask, you are risking the lives and health of people around you. And I am sick of being expected to just grin and bear that.
 
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Amazon Climber said:
Honestly, the fact that antivaxxers both keep spreading this easily- and repeatedly-disproven hoax and, by association, the belief that autistic kids would be better off dead, is enough reason for me to wish we'd give them a choice between "the jab" and a nice dose of potassium chloride.
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I guess we just have to take comfort in watching full grown anti-vaxxers cry like children while they die of easily preventable diseases
 
Amazon Climber said:
In addition to all of the above, viruses mutate. Every person who refuses to get a vaccine is a Petri dish for the virus to continue mutating, requiring those of us who are sane to keep getting vaccinated and risk getting infected by new strains anyway. The anti-vax movement is basically a cult of Nurgle who don't even have the loving papa urging them on.

Can't doesn't mean 'it's inconvenient to.' It means 'medically contraindicated.' For example, infants, people allergic to one or more of the ingredients, or people who have had severe reactions. This is basic bitch info you could have found in thirty seconds of Googling.
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Prince Chrom said:
Can't because they have a weak enough immune system that the vaccine could be fatal. As Amazon Climber said, it would have taken you less than 30 seconds to look this up yourself.
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You know what else I found in those 30 seconds? A couple hundred other arguments, most of which contradict the others. And the best part, none of it makes sense. But hey, sounds like I should take the first search result that pops up as truth from now on? Because to me, that's what this sounds like.



Xicree said:
The idea that once you get vaccinated you cant catch the illness is outright wrong/idiotic miscommunication... often by the very people saying Not to get vaccinated.

Every worthwhile medical professional says... get vaccinated to protect yourself from the WORST ASPECTS of the illness.


Avoiding passing it off to others helps slow down transmission so that it slows down the RATE OF MUTATION.

The slower the rate of mutation, and the more people vaccinated the safer the entire population can be.


It's the difference between a wildfire not being fought, and one under control by the fire service. Both still cause destruction, but one is Massively more destructive... and human lives are the fuel.
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Aleh said:
There are a number of reasons. Perhaps most importantly, they sabotage herd immunity, letting the virus rampage through populations that it otherwise wouldn't be able to penetrate.

Y'see, getting infected doesn't just endanger you. It endangers everyone around you.

Secondly, you're repeating a rather blatant form of the Nirvana fallacy, in that no credible source claimed... well, pretty much anything you just listed. Getting jabbed leaves you comparatively protected, but not fully immune. You can still get sick from COVID (although you're less likely to die or suffer serious after-effects). If you're driving safely, and properly using your seatbelt, why should you care that other people aren't?

Well, the answer becomes relatively obvious when that drunk driver slams into your car -- or the idiot without a seatbelt goes flying around the car in a crash and breaks your neck with his leg.

(Not a hypothetical, by the way: This is the actual reason why we have seatbelt laws. I was describing the events of a crash video I had to watch back in college.)

Thirdly, as noted, they're not just influencing their own behavior. Many of these people are discouraging or preventing other people (e.g. their kids) from getting vaccinated.

Fourthly, as also noted, antivaxxers tend to also have (and spread) other dangerous medical beliefs. Over the course of my career, I've had to -- among other things -- try to lobby against an antivaccine-inspired chain of clinics dedicated to chemically castrating children with disabilities, track down a network of antivax parents who were having pig whipworm eggs smuggled in from Thailand so they could deliberately infest their kids with porcine intestinal parasites, and deal with parents who were trying to give their kids "all-natural," "alternative" protection from childhood diseases (measles, mostly -- this was before COVID) by making them drink week-old urine.

This is an incomplete list.

On the more tragic side of things, I've also dealt with parents who refused the Vitamin K shot at birth (because any injection obviously has to be a vaccine and they don't want their kid vaccinated against their will) and then had said kid die or suffer permanent brain damage from bleeding... which they then blamed on "stealth vaccines" supposedly given to the kid against their will.

Fifthly, the antivaxxers are, in fact, assholes.


Which means jack shit if you're immunocompromised or undergoing chemotherapy. When we talk about people who can't get vaccinated, we're not usually talking about access to the vaccine: We're talking about people who medically can't get vaccinated.
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There were a lot agencies and pharma companies that claimed herd immunity didn't exist in this case and the vaccines were the only thing that could be trusted.


So Biden and the 2021-2023 CDC director aren't credible sources?


https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-2021-video-saying-vaccinations-prevent-covid-resurfaces-1726900

Sure, later on the claims were changed but at one point, they did actually say it.


Your third point, that's bad, yeah. Everyone should be able to make their own decision.

As for your fourth, that can be summed up as "people are idiots." That's the same kind of groundbreaking news as "water is wet" or "fire is hot." Just a fact of life. Tragic for the kids though.


Fifth, there's more than enough assholes on the vaccinated side too. Haven't got much saved about that but just this thread alone should provide quite some evidence to that fact.
 
TrAiT0r said:
You know what else I found in those 30 seconds? A couple hundred other arguments, most of which contradict the others. And the best part, none of it makes sense. But hey, sounds like I should take the first search result that pops up as truth from now on? Because to me, that's what this sounds like.







There were a lot agencies and pharma companies that claimed herd immunity didn't exist in this case and the vaccines were the only thing that could be trusted.


So Biden and the 2021-2023 CDC director aren't credible sources?


https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-2021-video-saying-vaccinations-prevent-covid-resurfaces-1726900

Sure, later on the claims were changed but at one point, they did actually say it.


Your third point, that's bad, yeah. Everyone should be able to make their own decision.

As for your fourth, that can be summed up as "people are idiots." That's the same kind of groundbreaking news as "water is wet" or "fire is hot." Just a fact of life. Tragic for the kids though.


Fifth, there's more than enough assholes on the vaccinated side too. Haven't got much saved about that but just this thread alone should provide quite some evidence to that fact.
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Look dude, if you want to feel good about believing in fake shit, you don't need our approval. Just go do that and hey, maybe you personally will never suffer any consequences for it. That's all that matters, right?
 
TrAiT0r said:
There were a lot agencies and pharma companies that claimed herd immunity didn't exist in this case and the vaccines were the only thing that could be trusted.
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These are not mutually exclusive statements.

Herd Immunity cannot be trusted UNTIL you have enough Vaccinated people in the system to act as Firebreaks for those people who Cannot get it.

Ie every human with the ABILITY to not die from taking the Vaccine should be getting it in service of those who have immune systems too weak to even try.


Herd Immunity gained from GETTING and Surviving the Virus is fundamentally LESS Stable and Reliable, because every-time someone gets the virus it gives the virus a Chance to CHANGE INTO ANOTHER FORM, where as everyone who gets the Vaccine, is a chance to CUT THE CURRENT FORM OF THE VIRUS OFF AT THE KNEES and stop/slow both Passage to others and chances of Mutation.


I'm speaking to you as someone with a lifetime interest in biology, and at least enough interest to have been interested in things like Smallpox and other disease of antiquity.


You are basically nitpicking the misspeaking of POLITICIANS over SCIENTIST and DOCTORS.
 
TrAiT0r said:
There were a lot agencies and pharma companies that claimed herd immunity didn't exist in this case and the vaccines were the only thing that could be trusted.


So Biden and the 2021-2023 CDC director aren't credible sources?
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Congratulations on citing a source that doesn't support your summary of it. That video doesn't say what you think it said.

Sure, herd immunity doesn't really exist for COVID. It doesn't exist because of the antivaxxers.

TrAiT0r said:
As for your fourth, that can be summed up as "people are idiots." That's the same kind of groundbreaking news as "water is wet" or "fire is hot." Just a fact of life. Tragic for the kids though.
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Yes, the antivaxxers pull stupid stuff and promote stupid stuff. That came up as a reason why we don't like them: Stupid medical stuff has real prices and real consequences.

TrAiT0r said:
Fifth, there's more than enough assholes on the vaccinated side too. Haven't got much saved about that but just this thread alone should provide quite some evidence to that fact.
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And this is just stupid "whataboutism" in the form of a tu quoque pattern. The issue isn't that asshole antivaxxers exist, it's that antivaxxers, as a group, are assholes. Their "leaders" have virtually no meaningful conscience, and are very often too busy swindling their followers into poisoning or mudering their own children to give a shit about the damage they're doing.
 
MadGreenSon said:
Look dude, if you want to feel good about believing in fake shit, you don't need our approval. Just go do that and hey, maybe you personally will never suffer any consequences for it. That's all that matters, right?
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It's not enough that he gets to feel smug, other people need to bow to his scintillating brilliance.
 
'No' Means 'No'
  • Moderation
    • I was going to say some things but, frankly, Aleh said it better than I could.

    Instead I shall simply descend to deal out my usual punishment.

    TrAiT0r, by posting this pathetic and idiotic tripe you have successfully earned yourself the disdain of all of the people posting here because of the personal suffering and loss inflicted upon them by Covid; suffering that was magnified by the unfounded ideas you are espousing.

    In doing so you have also earned yourself a permanent vacation from this thread. It is clear you have no interest in arguing in good faith and, as far as I can tell, simply posted here to stir shit. That kind of behaviour is unacceptable.
     
  • Moderation
    • Fresh memes? In this economy?!

    av6cov.jpeg
     
    A bit late but I hate dealing with anti vaxxers because most of them have to be idiots.

    Personally I think that vaccines generally are an amazing thing that lowers the chance of death and having asthma I'm a big believer in small consistent improvement to staying alive.

    Vaccines also undergoes some of the strictest form of regulation and testing we have develop as a species . If it causes autism, which it doesnt, it still is a net positive to staying alive simply because we done enough testing to prove it works.
     
    Evillevi said:
    A bit late but I hate dealing with anti vaxxers because most of them have to be idiots.

    Personally I think that vaccines generally are an amazing thing that lowers the chance of death and having asthma I'm a big believer in small consistent improvement to staying alive.

    Vaccines also undergoes some of the strictest form of regulation and testing we have develop as a species . If it causes autism, which it doesnt, it still is a net positive to staying alive simply because we done enough testing to prove it works.
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    Never to late to insult anti vaxxers they're the fucking worst.

    Thread tax i guess had to ask my boss do a last minute test friday beacuse my dad messaged me to say he'd tested positive, so far i'm covid free but i live with my dad so probably gonna do the test again later this week just in case.
     
    Grey Lantern said:
    Never to late to insult anti vaxxers they're the fucking worst.

    Thread tax i guess had to ask my boss do a last minute test friday beacuse my dad messaged me to say he'd tested positive, so far i'm covid free but i live with my dad so probably gonna do the test again later this week just in case.
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    We have an antivaxxers thread.
     
    Got the covid.

    Thankfully, paxlovid actually seems to help with it. First time I had the symptom was horrible and I'm high risk, could barely breath with a 101 temp, so really thankful about that actually working.

    Bad news it might have knocked something in my lungs so I might be on the onset on bronchitis. Something I thought I got rid of years ago. Glad I have a good lung doctor I can call and talk to about that, so that likely won't be a problem after today. >.>
     
    Doing better. Thankfully no bronchitis so far, I was just having an understandable freak out about having covid with my past medical history.

    Lungs feel like they were majorly set back years back when I was on a hair trigger with sever asthma instead of the mild asthma I managed to obtain in my adult years. Covid would have had to do that in 1 and a half day since I started taking the medicine for it the very next day so its very vicious and probably still in my system.

    Not a good thing. But at least I'm still alive and things would have been much worse if I got covid earlier than 2023.
     
    I
    OverReactionGuy said:
    Doing better. Thankfully no bronchitis so far, I was just having an understandable freak out about having covid with my past medical history.

    Lungs feel like they were majorly set back years back when I was on a hair trigger with sever asthma instead of the mild asthma I managed to obtain in my adult years. Covid would have had to do that in 1 and a half day since I started taking the medicine for it the very next day so its very vicious and probably still in my system.

    Not a good thing. But at least I'm still alive and things would have been much worse if I got covid earlier than 2023.
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    Hope you will be fully recovered as fast as it possible. Yeah.. That is weird.. My friend with asthma also had mild symptoms, but another friend who is passionate smoker got long Covid and after some treatment he was finally recovered year after. Is there a high throat pain as a symptom ?
     
    subleo said:
    Is there a high throat pain as a symptom ?
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    My throat was fucked up for two weeks. A combination of the drainage, the coughing and whatever else I guess.

    Only just recovering from that basically.

    Doesn't help I was coughing up yellow crap. Now I just cough up clear crap when I do cough stuff up.

    But from my experience, your throat is probably going to be hurting yeah. Whether it's a symptom or caused generally by other things I don't know.

    Sorry, not really an expert with covid yet lol.

    And I hope I never do become one since what I consider an "expert" with an illness is someone who experienced it many, many times like I did with asthma, pneumonia and severe bronchitis through out my life. I really don't want to add covid to that list. >.>
     
    OverReactionGuy said:
    My throat was fucked up for two weeks. A combination of the drainage, the coughing and whatever else I guess.

    Only just recovering from that basically.

    Doesn't help I was coughing up yellow crap. Now I just cough up clear crap when I do cough stuff up.

    But from my experience, your throat is probably going to be hurting yeah. Whether it's a symptom or caused generally by other things I don't know.

    Sorry, not really an expert with covid yet lol.

    And I hope I never do become one since what I consider an "expert" with an illness is someone who experienced it many, many times like I did with asthma, pneumonia and severe bronchitis through out my life. I really don't want to add covid to that list. >.>
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    That is interesting.. Because my throat was fine one day and another it was painful, after two days I decided to take antibiotic to speed up max process, but at the end never gone to test myself because I had I mild temperature for a few days.. Pain in muscles, bad dreams :D About that yellow c*rap .. Had massive also but it was at the time I got vaccinated, and even with that it wasn't easy to survive..
     
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