Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Shaper47]

Lantern definitely takes priority. We only get scraps if the source is >= our current level, so we won't get scraps from the Knock artefact, but will from the Lantern.

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So one scrap from artifact study, I'm thinking probably one scrap from studying Baldomare's beacon. Then we can just pop an influence and have the conversation.

If we were scrying Neighnia directly I imagine we'd have problems, but we're searching for Copper, so it SHOULD be fine.

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subtracted by any defenses (mundane or otherwise) that the target might possess

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If anything is throwing around exotic defenses it's probably a Name.

I mean maybe it might be fine but underestimating a Name is how we get boobed.

 

[Nevermort]

Thirdly, it has someone building a prison. Why? Yes, yes, we might get prisoners from the cult blah blah blah. But this ignores that that's not going to be an incidental thing. We're the ones who set the goals, and if we don't tell them to drag a prisoner back, they're not going to (or, at least, not one that we can treat as a resource). Which leads me to my next point: we have no reason to take a prisoner right now. We have only two Sacrament options that can use up a prisoner, one of which most people don't want to do because alukite-flavored Grail sure is a thing, and the other for which we have a much easier option for that doesn't require consuming a person. And, perhaps most pertinently, both Grail and Lantern are at 0/4. Lantern is closer, due to Influence + studying Lantern artifact getting us to 3/4, but a) that is still not 4/4, b) we're probably going to want Baldomare to do more useful things besides give us a Lantern Influence (like finding or scouting expeditions which have books and artifacts, or granting us Sacrament), and c) again, we have an alternate option that doesn't require consuming a pony anyway. So we'd go through all this effort of building a prison and setting an assault goal to bring back a prisoner, only to let said prisoner rot for upwards of several months anyway because there is legitimately zero pressing need for any of this, possibly even eating into our Follower AP because someone has to made sure that they're being fed, watered, and not escaping.

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Wanted to address this. Why having prison is great:
1.flexibility. We are not bound to kill Copper, which may be not only due to moral reasons. If she is smart pony she would prepare failsafes. What if she tells us that Neighina will detect her passing and are given last orders to carry in this case? Like plunge the town into deadly Winter or something similar? With her Grail Copper may even believe that she would be able to talk her way out of prison and would be willing to surrender under certain circumstances as opposing to taking as much as she can with her into the grave. Flexibility in this case is having more options available in regards to Copper and any of her high ranking cultists. If some surrounds at the end of fight, we would need to decide between killing them and setting them free and prison offers us additional option. Nowhere is said that the prison would be limited to only one pony after all.
2.opportunities. Everyone mentioned Sacraments by now, but there is also mechanics of turning prisoners into followers in the CS game. In fact this is one of my favorite mechanics in CS. You imprison your Rival, throw fascination on him, offer high level artifact and they agree to become your follower. Works on Hunters too, in fact it is how you gain your best followers. And in this case I don't mean only Copper , any her lieutenants may be of use, since they already would know the Lores.
3.availability. So far there weren't any great opportunities to get prisoners, and I very much doubt that we would go out of our way to get them. Especially since people shy away even from getting bits in the less than legal way. Yes, we technically can do it, but people will start complain that we don't want to spend AP, don't want those Sacraments and so on. And it means that we would also miss other potential opportunities regarding the prisoners (see point 2). As of now it is mission that we take in either case, and tell expedition members to take cultist prisoners if possible as low priority subtask is not difficult. Everything after will take spending AP on things people do not prioritize, which is close to impossible.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

[X] Plan More Heart

[X] Plan Time's Up - Rarity Digging

 

[Sveta08]

So the Heartifact was DC50, but the SH3 artifact was DC70. I could have sworn study DCs were 50 + (level * 10), but no, they're obviously different here. I think the only way this makes sense is if the DC is based on the level of scrap that we're acquiring, rather than the innate artifact level? Heart DC would have had a DC50 then, because iirc we were essentially gaining a Level 0 scrap to reach Heart 1. While for the SH3 artifact we were getting our final Level 2 scrap for SH3.

...not really sure what that would mean for studying a lower level artifact though. Would it just be DC50 since all we're doing is discovering it's function rather than looking for eldritch insight? (@OurLadyOfWires)

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That, appears to be the SH Book we got there. After some tracking down, the Secret History Artifact, that was researched Turn 11 Part 1... and had a CD of 80? Also Level 3 Artifact.

So, not sure what's up there.
But, it did remind me we have the SH artifat, which can provide a +5 to +15 for any study or research check. Let's snag that for studying our other artifacts.

Edit: Link to the specific post, since inserting quotes via edit is a nightmare and a half

Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

- - - “Are you sure you don’t need anything else sweetheart?” “I’m sure, Stormy. Don’t worry.” “Alright, I’ll… well, I’ll be nearby if anything, so…” “You will end up leaving nothing for Ponpon to do if you keep pampering me like this, dear,” you say, giving him a charming smile. Or at...

forum.questionablequesting.com

 

[Greymere]

That, appears to be the SH Book we got there. After some tracking down, the Secret History Artifact, that was researched Turn 11 Part 1... and had a CD of 80? Also Level 3 Artifact.

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Right, I'm a dumbass, the thing I quoted wasn't actually the SH3 artifact. I misremembered the SH3 artifact as giving us the last scrap for SH3, it was actually the last scrap for SH4

Either way, the Lantern artifact should probably be DC90, since Level 4 scrap, with us rolling X + 57 to 67 (+12 Learning, +5 to +15 artifact bonus, +40 Level 4 source)

 

[Solace2117]

All the prison does is add more potential things to divide our actions and create security risks. Just let Copper die and move on. Half the issues we run into is trying to do too many things and spreading too thin.

 

[Sveta08]

Right, I'm a dumbass, the thing I quoted wasn't actually the SH3 artifact. I misremembered the SH3 artifact as giving us the last scrap for SH3, it was actually the last scrap for SH4

Either way, the Lantern artifact should probably be DC90, since Level 4 scrap, with us rolling X + 57 to 67 (+12 Learning, +5 to +15 artifact bonus, +40 Level 4 source)

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Hmm... So with that, we are looking at anywhere from 20-30% chance of failure, give or take three.
So, Both actions could be set to study the Lantern artifact, with if it is successful on the first go, then study the Knock Artifact?

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

We are getting the Frangiclave next turn which is the 6 ranked artifact, once that is studied anybody can easily summon.

 

[Pittauro]

We are getting the Frangiclave next turn which is the 6 ranked artifact, once that is studied anybody can easily summon.

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that's not guaranteed.

It's possible we won't manage to finish the Sacrament.

It's possible that the Sacrament actions won't include finding the Frangiclave, but that we'll have to go back to that world later (presumably thanks to the Sacrament's power) to get it.

It's possible that Axe will KEEP the Frangiclave

It's possible that the Frangiclave might be destroyed/consumed in freeing Axe permanently.


IDEALLY we'll find it during the Sacrament action chain, we'll study it, and we'll get to keep it. But we can't be sure.

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

I highly doubt the GM will blindside us with lossing the best Knock artifact, the moment we get it.

 

[Shaper47]

I highly doubt the GM will blindside us with lossing the best Knock artifact, the moment we get it.

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He did destroy Moth heirloom by Baldomare.

 

[Zxzx24]

We don't actually know of that was the moth heirloom, and that wasn't in our possession.

And the risk of other people having agency

 

[Lorrie]

There's also always the option of using prisoners as sacrifices for rituals.

 

[Shaper47]

We don't actually know of that was the moth heirloom

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It was one of them.

It was Velvet's Stone.

 

[Greymere]

There's also always the option of using prisoners as sacrifices for rituals.

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Why... would we? Our regents are pretty much always better if we need a boost.

 

[Shaper47]

There's also always the option of using prisoners as sacrifices for rituals.

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Pretty much this.

Why... would we? Our regents are pretty much always better.

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Ponies don't really make good sacrifices unless they're high level in lores, and there's better use for such ponies.

Though Changelings do make good Moth regents in the sense they save us some bits and time. But we don't need them because we don't really need to perform any Moth rituals.

 

[Rafuki22]

I don't think that we need prisoners, if we want someone for the Lantern or Grail Sacrament we could just ask Biedde to capture a changeling or criminal pony for us to use in the same turn, with a conditional to do another thing if said someone isn't captured.

Edit: Of course, the probability of needing a prison aren't 0.

 

[Pittauro]

I highly doubt the GM will blindside us with lossing the best Knock artifact, the moment we get it.

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it's not exactly blindsiding us.

Axe wants the key that only opens.

It makes sense that she might want to keep it.

It was one of them.

It was Velvet's Stone.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding was that the Heirlooms are not artifacts, but lvl 7 books. Well, "books". we know they don't HAVE to look like books, as we saw both a lvl 6 grail drape, and the lvl 5 moth fruit.

also I think there's only ONE Heirloom per lore (though I might just be assuming that), and the moth one was destroyed with the Woods.

The Heirloom "The Dappled Ashes" has been destroyed.

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[Shaper47]

I don't think that we need prisoners, if we want someone for the Lantern or Grail Sacrament we could just ask Biedde to capture a changeling or criminal pony for us to use in the same turn, with a conditional to do another thing if said someone isn't captured.

Edit: Of course, the probability of needing a prison aren't 0.

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Wouldn't we still need somewhere to put the prisoner once they're captured?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding was that the Heirlooms are not artifacts, but lvl 7 books.

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Huh, I thought it was just any level 7 thing?

 

[DelightedOne]

I don't think that we need prisoners, if we want someone for the Lantern or Grail Sacrament we could just ask Biedde to capture a changeling or criminal pony for us to use in the same turn, with a conditional to do another thing if said someone isn't captured.

Edit: Of course, the probability of needing a prison aren't 0.

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Can't use changelings for those types of Sacraments, only ponies.

And the prison is also a step in furthering our influence in Ponyville by establishing an occult base. Feels important if we want to make our own local cult or just expand our influence in the town without Leashing the Mayor.

 

[Rafuki22]

Wouldn't we still need somewhere to put the prisoner once they're captured?

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If we do them back to back in the same turn we shouldn't need it @OurLadyOfWires what's your veredict?

And the prison is also a step in furthering our influence in Ponyville by establishing an occult base. Feels important if we want to make our own local cult or just expand our influence in the town without Leashing the Mayor.

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Assuming that's something we want to do, which i think not?

 

[Greymere]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding was that the Heirlooms are not artifacts, but lvl 7 books. Well, "books". we know they don't HAVE to look like books, as we saw both a lvl 6 grail drape, and the lvl 5 moth fruit.

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We don't know what Heirlooms are, period. Anything beyond "they exist" is an assumption based on pretty much nothing at all.

And the prison is also a step in furthering our influence in Ponyville by establishing an occult base. Feels important if we want to make our own local cult or just expand our influence in the town without Leashing the Mayor.

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I feel like if we want to make an proper base we should find somewhere that can actually. You know. Act like a base? A completely mundane old house that can't even hold like half of our ritual options and that one of our faction members won't even go near anymore is not a good choice for an HQ.

And do we even want to start up our own cult? We kind of have our hooves full between our own workload and running the Bureau.

 

[Shaper47]

Assuming that's something we want to do, which i think not?

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Well it's either we run the town cult someone else does.

 

[DelightedOne]

I feel like if we want to make an proper base we should find somewhere that can actually. You know. Act like a base? A completely mundane old house that can't even hold half of our ritual options and that one of our faction members won't even go near anymore is not a good choice for an HQ.

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That is our first base, of course it is going to suck. Both in CS and this Quest we start with a mediocre Cult base then build it up/change location.

Well it's either we run the town cult someone else does.

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Like the Wolf Cult that the Daughter-to-be is leading? Thank you for reminding me why I wanted to get more power in Ponyville.

 

[Greymere]

That is our first base, of course it is going to suck. Both in CS and this Quest we start with a mediocre Cult base then build it up/change location.

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So why spend actions on trying to make a mediocre base 'better' (in the loosest terms possible, because I still don't see the actual use of having a personal prison atm) instead of finding a better base?

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

it's not exactly blindsiding us.

Axe wants the key that only opens.

It makes sense that she might want to keep it.

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She wants it so she can be freed, and can leave the Mansus. So what if Ax wants to keep it on her person, when she moved her real body into Velvet's house.

 

[Nevermort]

So why spend actions on trying to make a mediocre base 'better' (in the loosest terms possible, because I still don't see the actual use of having a personal prison atm) instead of finding a better base?

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Later we can make portal in the basement that leads to the main facilities. Our cult base had something like this leading to Woods. We would just need to see if Knock sacrament will be of use or ask Axe to help.

 

[Shaper47]

I feel like if we want to make an proper base we should find somewhere that can actually. You know. Act like a base? A completely mundane old house that can't even hold like half of our ritual options and that one of our faction members won't even go near anymore is not a good choice for an HQ.

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Eh, baby steps.

And do we even want to start up our own cult? We kind of have our hooves full between our own workload and running the Bureau.

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Because something else will. Besides we can just treat them like our old Hintchasers. No AP needed.

Like the Wolf Cult that the Daughter-to-be is leading? Thank you for reminding me why I wanted to get more power in Ponyville.

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Or Marinette or one of the leftover cultists that hung around and went to ground.

There are a bunch of old cult members around I think? Not all of them left with Windy or Copper.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

The best reason for prison cells I can think of is if there are living assets worth salvaging from Copper's Cult. Or sticking Neighnia's Painting into a hole in the ground, I guess.

I doubt the latter would actually impede her in any way, but it would be funny.

 

[Solace2117]

If we wanted to really focus on expanding a cult in Ponyville we should have voted to keep the attack secret. Not saying we shouldn't build connections, but the Bureau will be more of a focus the next few turns.
We need to actually complete stuff. Find the Outsider, heal our scar, get Axe's sacrament.