Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[angelsadvocate666]

I hope you are all doing well! I will post the Expedition Planning threadmark, because the next update has something that involves information from there. Also, i'll start writing the next update at some point. I want to post it today, but who knows. Frostpunk 2 just came out.

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…My hope is that this means we succeeded in summoning Biedde so we have to decide whether to send him on the expedition or not. Expedition stuff usually goes near the end of the turn otherwise, IIRC.

As for Marinette, another option might be to scry not her weaknesses, but what she's going to ask for in the future. Bird seemed to have them already defined anyways, and it might ease the burdens if we can work on acquiring an inoffensive method of fulfilling her requests ahead of time.

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

EXPEDITION PLANNING
"Ropes, bits, able bodies... talismans..."​

The basic rules for an expedition:

-If you choose to perform an expedition during your turn planning phase, then a "Plan your expedition" vote will be opened at a later point of that turn. During that later vote, you will be allowed to select your team, and what artifacts you wish to bring to the expedition.

-Only Velvet Covers herself, ponies who are confidantes or above, and her summoned minions may be selected for an expedition. If Velvet is not present one of her confidantes/summons will be the "Leader" of the expedition.

-Expeditions are separated into three categories:

Expedition type​	Velvet/Leader actions required to go​	Confidante/Summon actions required to go​	Expected duration​
Short​	1/1​	Free​	5 days​
Medium​	2/2​	1​	10 days​
Long​	3/All​	2​	15 days​

-All expeditions have a "base cost" representing how much a creature will spend per day on that expedition. To set out to an expedition, you must have the requisite bits required UP FRONT. The cost of bits for an expedition is "Number of creatures going X Expected duration X base cost"

-If an expedition team completes the expedition before spending all their bits, the cost will be refunded. If an expedition spends more time than expected, a vote will be offered to give up on the expedition, or to spend additional resources/action points to continue.

Spoiler: What to expect on an expedition

During an expedition:

-An expedition is a sequence of hurdles that must be defeated, which can range from a mundane forest to an esoteric curse.

-A single "hurdle" will be faced per day, and generally there are less hurdles than there will be days set for an expedition (leaving some room, however small, for failure). If the expedition fails to surpass the hurdle, they will try again on the next day, until they run out of resources.

-A hurdle will always be countered by one (or more) kinds of Lore. This will not be a use of "Application" or "Knowledge" bonus. Instead, the total sum of the Lore level, across all creatures involved, will be used. Regardless if that Lore level is innate from a pony, or due to an equipped artifact.

-A hurdle will have a specific CD. The pony/creature who has the highest "base" advantage against it will roll against the hurdle, and ALL ponies who have Lore levels on the requisite Lore will help.
--Example: A team with Velvet, Rarity and Axe would see Axe rolling her "base" +50 to break a wall, even though she has no Forge levels. And both Velvet and Rarity would apply their Forge bonuses to help.
--Artifacts taken will be "wielded" by a single pony. So, if a pony with Heart 2 is going alone on an expedition, and he takes a Heart 3 artifact, he will be treated as if he had Heart 3. If another pony with no Heart levels join him, that new pony will wield the artifact instead to "optimize" their total Heart level.

-Combat hurdles will begin a regular combat.

- - -

AVAILABLE WAKE EXPEDITIONS:

("Assault an Opponent" will always be available)

Spoiler: Assault an Opponent

Location: You must at least "suspect" where your targeted Opponent is. This expedition will be aimed at assaulting that location. During the team-picking part of the expedition, a WRITE-IN option may be chosen to specify what actions or objectives your followers should focus on. Upon reaching the location, the team might spend some time searching for the Opponent (if his location is only suspected), or otherwise preparing to attack him (if narrative elements allow for it). Your team might need to find your Opponent's hideout, they might try to infiltrate it, they might need to weaken its magical defenses first, or they might spend time doing other things such as "setting the stage" depending on your orders.

Expected duration: SHORT

Base cost: 5 bits (you must have at least 25 bits per creature sent)

Spoiler: Beneath the Royal Castle, pt. 2

Location: After your previous foray into the undergrounds of the Royal Castle, you found what appears to be a checkpoint. A small room, pony-sized and incredibly old, which you believe has already tasted the touch of the Lores. You will not have to repeat the journey this far, given how the treacherous crystal caverns that brought you here may be bypassed by the hole you created on one of the thinner walls. However, there is still a vast complex of caves further down. You should make sure to pack torches, and plenty of rope.

Expected duration: MEDIUM

Base cost: 7 bits (you must have at least 70 bits per creature sent)

Expected dangers: The information you have from this place is centuries old, but a map is a map. If the crystal caverns were indeed left unmined, then a veritable maze of translucent walls awaits below. Having a way to navigate it would be good, unless you do not need a map at all. It is also almost certain that some paths will be blocked, either due to the passage of time or by design, so a way to force yourself through them would be useful. Furthermore, the underground is certainly inhospitable, so taking more sustenance than just rations would be advisable. Finally, there will be the matter of discovering a quicker way out, and then making sure it can be used later on. But of course, you cannot say for certain if anything else has taken up residence there, after all these years. (This information may be incomplete, but is otherwise reliable for what you currently know.)

Spoiler: Beyond the Map's Edge

Location: According to Baldomare, you won't be able to find it on any map. "By its very definition", is how she said it. Still, she mentioned the two of you will be heading east. (You may only go to this expedition if you take Baldomare with you. And as a rule, you two must go alone. This will grant you Baldomare's Sacrament for the Lore of Secret Histories.)

Expected duration Action cost: 1 Baldomare action, 1 Velvet Covers action.

Base cost: The whole round trip, and the list of equipment she told you to buy for both of you (but mostly for you), costs a grand total of 40 bits.

Expected dangers: "Of course there will be dangers. Living is dangerous! And you are not telling me that you have been walking around the Mansus every now and then but that you're scared of a little hike, are you?"

Spoiler: Regarding Mansus Expeditions

Mansus Expeditions are only slightly similar to Wake Expeditions.

Only a single Mansus Expedition may be attempted per turn.

Only Velvet Covers may participate, as she will always go alone.

They will always take place near or at the end of the turn (unless narrative demands otherwise) due to their inherent danger.

And they always cost only a single Mansus-action. And you will either succeed at them and reap your rewards, or Velvet will retreat from them in failure if she feels she can no longer go any deeper.

Unlike a Wake Expedition, this is not a long trek towards a distant destination. Velvet Covers will sleep, she will enter a very dangerous place in her dreams, and she will return once she wakes up.

Spoiler: Completed Expeditions

-The Most Precious Treasure Hunt Ever (Selene's Expedition)
-Crepuscule Jailbreak

Spoiler: Crepuscule Jailbreak

Location: Manehattan is a large place, full of nooks, crannies and dark alleyways. It is a jungle made of stone and concrete, a place where ponykind reaches great highs and dark lows. It is, in sum, the perfect hiding place for a group that doesn't want to be found. However, one of those groups is hiding Twilight Sparkle. So you will find them, and you will get her back.

Difficulty: Small/Medium

Expected amount of actions required: 1

Base cost: 6 bits

Expected dangers: Jade Whistle scryed the place where they are holding Twilight Sparkle. She is in an old and battered warehouse, near the fringe section of the city... or at least it is old and battered when looking from the outside. But within its walls, the place is guarded, either by hired muscle or cult members, and you will need to force your way through them. Additionally, despite its beaten exterior, the inside of the warehouse has been reinforced with the Cult's Forge-secrets. You will need a way to open them, or to destroy them. Finally, there is the escape itself. You have no idea how helpful Twilight Sparkle will be, but as you escape the town, not drawing attention, or being able to divert attention away, will certainly be useful.

Special circumstances:
-Captain Shining Armor is expected to arrive at Ponyville at the end of turn 15. So,
--The number of actions you set aside for this expedition (1, 2 or more) will be planned so you return "just in time" to be in Ponyville, with Twilight on hoof, when Shining arrive (provided things go as planned);
--If you fail on too many hurdles, and waste more time than you allocated, you might return to Ponyville AFTER Shining arrive, and that will cause a lot of problems that you will have to very convincingly explain;
-Being discovered while attempting to break Twilight out (being found out, entering combat and leaving witnesses, etc) will amount to a TRIGGER EVENT

 

[Sveta08]

As for Marinette, another option might be to scry not her weaknesses, but what she's going to ask for in the future. Bird seemed to have them already defined anyways, and it might ease the burdens if we can work on acquiring an inoffensive method of fulfilling her requests ahead of time.

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I believe the best option may simply be to ask.
No movements behind the back, no bits spent, no prices given, no sneakery or involvement of lore to understand. But to treat her as... someone.
To ask.

 

[Greymere]

Expected dangers: The information you have from this place is centuries old, but a map is a map. If the crystal caverns were indeed left unmined, then a veritable maze of translucent walls awaits below. Having a way to navigate it would be good, unless you do not need a map at all. It is also almost certain that some paths will be blocked, either due to the passage of time or by design, so a way to force yourself through them would be useful. Furthermore, the underground is certainly inhospitable, so taking more sustenance than just rations would be advisable. Finally, there will be the matter of discovering a quicker way out, and then making sure it can be used later on. But of course, you cannot say for certain if anything else has taken up residence there, after all these years. (This information may be incomplete, but is otherwise reliable for what you currently know.)

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Hm hm...

So five obstacles total? First being Lantern/Moth, then Only Forge, then Heart/Grail, then Knock/Lantern, and finally Forge/Knock. With a side of "maybe combat" mixed in.

DoA should be good on the last two obstacles and in case of combat, obviously, but she'll have to rely on her innate bonus for the first three. I don't think either of our artifacts can help, so we'll just have to hope that her +50 (+10) can carry her through the first few obstacles in a reasonable time frame.

Edit: Also, since we now have an example of both a short and medium length expedition, it might be possible to extrapolate how many obstacles a long expedition might have. Short ones seem to have 3, and this medium one had 5, so long ones might have 7. Increments of +2? Or maybe Bird also factors in difficulty of checks in addition to no. of obstacles.

 

[DelightedOne]

3) maybe use her in ways that would let her have fun.

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I did try to suggest we send her to infiltrate Copper's cult, she would have been a Grail Name going to a Grail cult, it would have been like going to... Whatever Grail adepts got up to in the past.

 

[angelsadvocate666]

I believe the best option may simply be to ask.
No movements behind the back, no bits spent, no prices given, no sneakery or involvement of lore to understand. But to treat her as... someone.
To ask.

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I'm mostly functioning off the idea that either Marinette herself hasn't quite decided what she wants, or is purposefully not telling Velvet for some reason, because otherwise it honestly doesn't make sense to not give forewarning. Well, unless she's trying to definitely make Velvet fail at fulfilling the requests in the first place.

Hm hm...

So five obstacles total? First being Lantern/Moth, then Only Forge, then Heart/Grail, then Knock/Lantern, and finally Forge/Knock. With a side of "maybe combat" mixed in.

DoA should be good on the last two obstacles and in case of combat, obviously, but she'll have to rely on her innate bonus for the first three. I don't think either of our artifacts can help, so we'll just have to hope that her +50 (+10) can carry her through the first few obstacles in a reasonable time frame.

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Annoyingly, the first three seem to be the ones actually relevant to getting the rewards, while the last two are mostly "how do we get out and back in quickly."

Which does seem to imply there's either something we'll want to repeatedly go down there for, or a third part to the expedition.

 

[Greymere]

Which does seem to imply there's either something we'll want to repeatedly go down there for, or a third part to the expedition.

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People were speculating that it might give another ritual site. If it does, I just hope it's a three-circle, since we have two- and one-circle sites covered already

 

[Sveta08]

I'm mostly functioning off the idea that either Marinette herself hasn't quite decided what she wants, or is purposefully not telling Velvet for some reason, because otherwise it honestly doesn't make sense to not give forewarning. Well, unless she's trying to definitely make Velvet fail at fulfilling the requests in the first place.

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I... pardon, I very very much doubt that.

Marinette wants. She wants deeper and heavier and in sharper relief than I can really think to put into words. She sat gnawing at the memory of something Grail Red for an era. She is patient, and hungry and wanting and thirsting and many many things. The same way you or I might look forward to a good meal, or an evening out with friends, or some time away from it all... she Wants. The idea that Marinette doesn't know what she wants is... I simply can't accept that as a reality.

And, I would say for certain Marinette hasn't told Velvet what she wants yet. Because part of what Marinette wants is to be seen. Noble. Old. Aged and clever and full of wisdom of ages long past, she wants to be seen. To be spoken to. Respected in some manner. And she sees the Names. Sheltered in the House of Velvet. Honored to an extent. Given space of their own. Given more freedom than she is. She sees that, sees Velvet and... Wants.

She hasn't told Velvet, because Velvet doesn't quite see her as her. Velvet sees Marinette as a Monster, not as Marinette. Why then, would she tell Velvet what she wants?
Velvet has not sought her out to ask. Not spoken to her as... even with a fraction of the... humanity? Honesty? Reality? Withwerall that she does with the Names. Even Ax.

Marinette is Proud. Marinette is Old. She wants.
Part of that is respect. Part of that is honor. Part of that is more.

 

[angelsadvocate666]

But yeah, it would be nice if we could go since the first chunk doesn't really use DoA's strengths, but as it is about the best we could do is send Biedde for a Level Three boost to that first Moth check.

I don't think either of our artifacts can help, so we'll just have to hope that her +50 (+10) can carry her through the first few obstacles in a reasonable time frame.

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Uh… we have a Heart 3 artifact though? It's even a blanket that helps recover health, which sounds like just the kind of thing needed for inhospitable locations.

The idea that Marinette doesn't know what she wants is... I simply can't accept that as a reality.

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Ah, to be more clear, what I suspect is that she wants too many things, and has not yet chosen which of those things to ask for. Not for the later options at least. Because sure, she probably knows exactly what she wants, but she doesn't yet know for sure what Velvet can or will give, or what things she can get elsewhere. It's like entering a store full of candy, but you've only got so much money in your pocket. You have to pick and choose what you're going to buy, after checking prices to see what you even can buy.

As for why she would tell Velves what she wants, it's simple. People cannot give you what you want if they do not have it, and they cannot get it for you if they do not know they should. I will grant that her offense may just be making her too annoyed to bother explaining, but if so then that is a very conscious choice she's making to give up the opportunity at asking Velvet for things that would take more time and effort than an on-the-spot request.

 

[Greymere]

Uh… we have a Heart 3 artifact though? It's even a blanket that helps recover health, which sounds like just the kind of thing needed for inhospitable locations.

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So far Wake expeditions have only used Application, not Knowledge, and artifacts can only sub in for Knowledge. So it'd be down to the artifacts' individual properties, and neither really seem like they would help. Unless "recovering health" can be reeeeeally stretched into, idk, "staving off hunger/dehydration"?

 

[angelsadvocate666]

So far Wake expeditions have only used Application, not Knowledge, and artifacts can only sub in for Knowledge. So it'd be down to the artifacts' individual properties, and neither really seem like they would help. Unless "recovering health" can be reeeeeally stretched into, idk, "staving off hunger/dehydration"?

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Then what's the point of this comment?

Artifacts taken will be "wielded" by a single pony. So, if a pony with Heart 2 is going alone on an expedition, and he takes a Heart 3 artifact, he will be treated as if he had Heart 3. If another pony with no Heart levels join him, that new pony will wield the artifact instead to "optimize" their total Heart level.

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And while recovering health is the mechanical effect, narratively it does seem to be more about providing a general energizing, which is basically what food is for.

"The skin of a furred animal worked into a large blanket, or perhaps a thick carpet. The salespony insists that whoever sleeps under it (or over it) will wake up feeling refreshed."

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On a much less likely note, I wonder if that Heart One reagent could be any use. IIRC it was a bottle of super jam or something.

 

[Gyldir]

If we're raiding Copper we'd might as well just take Copper herself instead of some random cultist.

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True.
Though we may not have enough success to take Copper and Neighnia.

I don't really think that's necessary, from a mechanical standpoint. It would be a step towards mitigating a problem that... doesn't exist? I mean, the occurrence of collateral damage during an enemy attack isn't something I put too much thought into. It just has never been something we have ever worried in the quest, to begin with.

Plus, training for what to do in an emergency doesn't really feel like something ponies are prone to do, narratively speaking?

I don't know, that idea just doesn't appeal to me, in all honesty.

So, not a bad suggestion, but I don't think it's something we need to think about right now.

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You are the person most suited to knowing if its mitigating a problem that doesn't exist, and I'll trust you on that.
But i disagree on the narrative side.

Ponies in general didn't see the need for it.
But the Changeling catastrophe should have changed the feeling of safety. Now the hurdle of who would do something about it remains.
And Commissioner Velvet feels very much like the kind of pony to take that helplessness from the catastrophe / the revealed need and do something practical about it.

So I think its exactly the kind of deviation from pony norm that Velvet/Commissioner Velvet should do.

Unneeded and uninteresting to you remain as convincing arguments against it, though.

 

[Pittauro]

DoA should be good on the last two obstacles and in case of combat, obviously, but she'll have to rely on her innate bonus for the first three. I don't think either of our artifacts can help, so we'll just have to hope that her +50 (+10) can carry her through the first few obstacles in a reasonable time frame.

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to be fair +60 is a LOT, and while sending someone else would raise our odds... it doesn't seem worth the bits.

in any case, if we're lucky 5 obstacles (6 with combat) mean we MIGHT only spend 35 or 42 bits instead of 70...

 

[Paintmaster]

The Worms wouldn't even be the only issue, though.

Like, letting the Lores be completely forgotten would be fine in a world where there was no Lore Fuckery(tm) hanging around to become an outside-context problem that the alicorns wouldn't even know how to approach dealing with it. But there were/are. For instance, the changelings were the beneficiaries of (iirc) a Moth 7 artifact's effect which made it literally impossible to notice anything was wrong if you didn't have Lantern. And I doubt the changelings were the only remnants of the old Era still around and kicking, you know?

Hell, I'm half expecting Sombra to turn out to be a Long who ascended before the Forge of Days trashed the Mansus.

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That matters if you know about that, which he may or may not have. Its completely understandable if to his limited knowledge pretty much every possible threat was either dead or buried, because he probably doesn't know everything.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Damn, Short Expeditions are cheap as hell. And don't even take up Confidante actions when they are helpers!

We could go tomb raiding as friendship building exercises!*

AS for what Mareinette wants, we can't forget that she wants foals. They are delicious.

*Provided we have the Bits for it

 

[Pittauro]

Damn, Short Expeditions are cheap as hell. And don't even take up Confidante actions when they are helpers!

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eh, we already knew that.

on the other hand, the leader still has to use an action, and most followers only have ONE action, with Selene being the only one thus far giving us TWO).

and of course short expedition USUALLY have worse loot, though that's not necessarily an absolute rule.

Last expedition in Canterlot gave us,

the book making part 2 a fair bit easier

a lvl 4 heart reagent we used to summon Mareinette,

the Knock 2 artifact we've YET to examine (maybe we can do it next turn, depending on what we find in this expedition. if we find a second artifact, we can examine both...)

and the place to do AotL rituals in.

it was a somewhat poor loot... but then again, that implies the good stuff will be in part 2.

and really, the knock 2 artifact COULD be fairly useful. Even just the +20 knock can be useful if we're willing to risk our followers summoning for us.


by the way @OurLadyOfWires you don't have canterlot part 1 among the completed expeditions in the expedition threadmark.

Spoiler: Expedition: Beneath the Royal Castle

[The Daughter-of-Axes smashing through a low-level expedition]

[Sneaking into the Royal Castle, cd 75]

[Roll: 27 + 50 (Expedition Bonus) = 77]

[Success]

"She didn't try to sneak into the deeper, better guarded parts of the Royal Castle. And they are already stretched thin due to the current situation, so…"


[Navigating the caverns, cd 60]

[Roll: 24 + 50 (Expedition Bonus) = 74]

[Success]

"You can't shake off the impression that she put only the minimal effort required. Still, she made her way through the confounding caverns of shining crystals just fine."


[Opening a door, cd 80]

[Roll: 38 + 50 (Expedition bonus) = 88]

[Success]

"Forge would have been ideal. Forge, and pickaxes, and maybe even dynamite or some other more esoteric substitute. But apparently, her axe alone was enough."


[Expedition successfully completed]

Spoiler: Beneath the Royal Castle, results

"After maybe a bit more coaxing than it should be necessary, the Daughter-of-Axes finally gave you some explanation of what she found. The underground caverns were vast and unexplored… but, she said, apparently it was by design. Near the exit she created, by the side of a mountain, there was a conspicuously well-carved room. A checkpoint, or maybe a listening post, for whoever had claimed the caverns as their territory. It was pony-sized, strangely civilized, and particularly old. And most curious of all, it had felt the faintest touch of the Lores. She had no explanations as to what that meant, except that the deeper reaches of the caverns might yield more answers. And inside the bag she gave you, the few trinkets she had found in that room, abandoned like forgotten prizes."

-Gained one Artifact (Knock, level 2, unstudied) of unknown properties.

-Gained one book (Unknown Lore, if any. Requires deciphering. Progress 0/50. From the Current Era, "-20" to deciphering rolls.)

-Gained one Reagent (HEART, Level 4)

-Located a (small) hidden location in Canterlot. One-circle Rituals may be performed in Canterlot without suspicion.

-Discovered the Expedition "Beneath the Royal Castle, pt. 2"

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Mare-in-the-Light [INCOMPLETE INFORMATION, you must successfully summon one for a complete status file]

Summoning requirements: LANTERN 80, KNOCK 60, EDGE 60.

Summoning cost: 55 bits. (Originally 60)

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I forget what Jade's magic stat is, but let's say it's 12.


Lantern: +52 with reroll. needs a 28, but rolls twice.

Knock: +32 if using the knock 2 artifact. needs a 28

Edge: +42 if using the Edge 3 artifact. needs an 18.

Not the best odds, but also not the worst ones.

and if we instead had BALDOMARE do it...

well, she autopasses Lantern, she'd roll +50 to knock (with artifact), and autopasses edge (with artifact).

Baldomare's ritualist traits start becoming really good once we get more artifacts to give her bonuses in the other Lores...

 

[Venerable Ro]

Damn, Short Expeditions are cheap as hell. And don't even take up Confidante actions when they are helpers!

We could go tomb raiding as friendship building exercises!*

*Provided we have the Bits for it

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Gestures emphatically

Finally someone picks up what I'm laying down. All that early-game loot (and maybe some nifty relics) just lying around waiting for an enterprising adept. There could be useful artifacts, valuable treasure, free reagents, and books. We need more books for our library, even if they don't help us they'll help future ponies we want to train in the lores without draining our AP.

 

[Pittauro]

Gestures emphatically

Finally someone picks up what I'm laying down. All that early-game loot (and maybe some nifty relics) just lying around waiting for an enterprising adept. There could be useful artifacts, valuable treasure, free reagents, and books. We need more books for our library, even if they don't help us they'll help future ponies we want to train in the lores without draining our AP.

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Books for the libraries are not that valuable now. They'll be IMMENSELY valuable after we deal with Daybreaker and/or reveal Luna to the Lunar Bureau (which we MIGHT be able to do if we make everyone fully loyal to us).

I think it was mentioned we get infrastructure bonuses once we get the lvl 3s there, for example.

As for missing out on expeditions in the past... I don't think it's a big deal.

We mostly got book by using the otherwise near-useless servant action (and later on hintseekers too I think), and low level books were cheap enough that it was fairly cost efficient for us in bits AND APs.

NOW, buying books is basically pointless to us, and even as we've raised our income a fair bit, all the rituals and summoning can quickly take it all. So yeah, NOW we should try and do as many expeditions as possible.

As for "friendship-building expeditions"...

there's, as usual, the problem of Velvet actions being limited, and also that for cheaper and shorter expeditions sending Axe or Mareinette alone is usually more efficient.

That said, I Definitely want to have Velvet lead the Frangiclave expedition, and I'm not against Selene being part of it as well... depending on costs.

You know, later on we should have Selene "search" for expedition sites. She should know of ancient equestrian artifacts and where they might be, from 1000 years ago.

obvious things she SHOULD know if she has her memories are the Castle of the Two Sisters in the Everfree Forest, the Tree of Harmony, the Crystal Empire (soon to return, with the Crystal Heart)...

 

[Greymere]

Then what's the point of this comment?

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Idk man, as far as I know we've only used Application in the Wake and artifacts only work for Knowledge. Maybe Bird is only talking about in cases where Knowledge would apply (which we just haven't run into yet).

@OurLadyOfWires can you comment on the wording in the expedition rules?

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

So far Wake expeditions have only used Application, not Knowledge, and artifacts can only sub in for Knowledge. So it'd be down to the artifacts' individual properties, and neither really seem like they would help. Unless "recovering health" can be reeeeeally stretched into, idk, "staving off hunger/dehydration"?

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@OurLadyOfWires can you comment on the wording in the expedition rules?

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Yeah, I'll change the wording. It's basically "total Lore level times five".

It's not truly a use of application bonus. Expeditions really are meant to be more CS-themed, with more eldritch use of the Lores in a broader way.

So a single pony with Heart 2 will give a +10 to Heart rolls. If you give that pony a Heart 3 artifact, he will roll with a +15.
And if a pony with Heart 0 joins him, then that new pony will grab the artifact, and the two ponies combined will give a +25 (with +10 coming from the Heart 2 pony, and +15 from the one wielding the artifact).

I don't like rule descriptions that are too long, but I'll try to word it better.

by the way @OurLadyOfWires you don't have canterlot part 1 among the completed expeditions in the expedition threadmark.

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Yeah, that bit is lost. We finished part 1 (and I deleted it from the threadmark back in the old site) before I had the idea of archiving completed expeditions.

 

[DelightedOne]

Finally someone picks up what I'm laying down. All that early-game loot (and maybe some nifty relics) just lying around waiting for an enterprising adept. There could be useful artifacts, valuable treasure, free reagents, and books. We need more books for our library, even if they don't help us they'll help future ponies we want to train in the lores without draining our AP.

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We have 1 confirmed expedition that is easy, so I assume it would be a short one. We could try to find it.

You see, there is an expedition site that's both easy and nearby, and it would reward her with a relatively good artifact pretty early in her story. It was a level four or five trinket, I believe.

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obvious things she SHOULD know if she has her memories are the Castle of the Two Sisters in the Everfree Forest, the Tree of Harmony, the Crystal Empire (soon to return, with the Crystal Heart)...

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I asked Bird if Selene knew anything about Harmony and he said: "she doesn't remember/know anything relevant".

So the Tree is probably one of those locked memories... Maybe we could send her there or at least somewhere close? It could make her remember something if the easy expedition is in the Castle of the Two Sisters.

 

[Greymere]

So a single pony with Heart 2 will give a +10 to Heart rolls. If you give that pony a Heart 3 artifact, he will roll with a +15.
And if a pony with Heart 0 joins him, then that new pony will grab the artifact, and the two ponies combined will give a +25 (with +10 coming from the Heart 2 pony, and +15 from the one wielding the artifact).

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I could have sworn that it worked on the same Application/Knowledge division before, but I certainly won't complain

It makes our artifacts actually useful for expeditions after all.

 

[angelsadvocate666]

So the Heartifact should be usable. Meaning DoA would have +75 to that roll after her other bonuses.

Honestly, the only hurdles I'm worried about are the first two, and even the very first probably isn't that hard. The last Lantern aspected "find your way around" challenge was a DC60, and this one doesn't even have the crystals confusing things. Really, the Forge roll is the main concern.

 

[Venerable Ro]

So the Heartifact should be usable. Meaning DoA would have +75 to that roll after her other bonuses.

Honestly, the only hurdles I'm worried about are the first two, and even the very first probably isn't that hard. The last Lantern aspected "find your way around" challenge was a DC60, and this one doesn't even have the crystals confusing things. Really, the Forge roll is the main concern.

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Maybe we should come along, we did just pick up that +20 to breaking things on top of the level 4 Forge.

 

[Pittauro]

Idk man, as far as I know we've only used Application in the Wake and artifacts only work for Knowledge. Maybe Bird is only talking about in cases where Knowledge would apply (which we just haven't run into yet).

@OurLadyOfWires can you comment on the wording in the expedition rules?

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I checked and... I think we actually never faced an obstacle where an artifact would have helped.

That would have been Heart for most of the quest, and Edge-SH a fair bit later.

Considering we did a sum total of THREE expeditions, with

the first one really early on (turn 7, grail for a xenophobic village and forge for "Rought Terrain", with a NAT1 resulting in us falling of a weak bridge),

and then Canterlot Part 1 (Axe just rolled her basic +50 and that was enough)

and Twilight rescue (where we I think only rolled combat, moth for stealth in the hideout, and stealth out of town, and knock for a warded door Axe just glared into opening for us)...

well, we never got a heart, edge or sh obstacle. Maybe there was one in Canterlot part 1 and we forgot to give her the artifacts, I don't remember.

---

I asked Bird if Selene knew anything about Harmony and he said: "she doesn't remember/know anything relevant".

So the Tree is probably one of those locked memories... Maybe we could send her there or at least somewhere close? It could make her remember something if the easy expedition is in the Castle of the Two Sisters.

Click to shrink...

Maybe she'll remember after her training is complete. Or maybe that one's locked behind the Memory of Light.

We'll find out soon enough either way.

So the Heartifact should be usable. Meaning DoA would have +75 to that roll after her other bonuses.

Honestly, the only hurdles I'm worried about are the first two, and even the very first probably isn't that hard. The last Lantern aspected "find your way around" challenge was a DC60, and this one doesn't even have the crystals confusing things. Really, the Forge roll is the main concern.

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Heart for an obstacle, Knock for two others.

that only leaves two obstacles she MIGHT in theory fail, but I imagine failing them will just mean having to retry. More often than not that just means we spend 7 extra bits, which is acceptable.

Sure, we lost 1 hp once (or was it Rarity that lost it?) but that was a Nat1 failure, not even a normal one.

the main worry is not the obstacles we know about. We should be worried about potential opponents. Main risk is Axe getting overwhelmed by local monsters. Her bonus there is ONLY base +30, +15 from edge 3, and the influence ONLY if she decides to use it for another +20.

That said she also has 5 health points, most animals/monsters likely wouldn't want to fight to the death, and are likely to have less health than that.

Maybe we should come along, we did just pick up that +20 to breaking things on top of the level 4 Forge.

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too late. we don't have an action for it, and even if we did it's not THAT big of a deal.

Failing an action to pass an obstacle is fine. For many obstacles (and those ones would probably count) it's just wasting some time, or at worst a wound. the extra days we risk using are cheaper than sending someone else with Axe.

 

[BritBiscuit]

Reading the start of the updoot and seeing the creation of Edge reagents and how Velvet struggles with metalworking, I realise that out of story it is a device to smoothly transition from reagent making into the book reading part of the turn but in story I am slightly curious about what consitutes a high level Edge reagent. Is it just a metal blade? The sharpness of an object? Is it that the objects purpose is entirely to cause harm or the amount of harm it could or has caused? What makes a reagent more powerful in Edge or better yet what makes it Edge over anything else in the first place?
Considering that Velvet is inclined to alchemy would it make her more biased to poisons or is that more Winter than Edge?

EDIT: rereading I see the bit about form as well as substance and that makes me wonder if a blade made out of crystalised chemicals would work as well.

It's not a concern at all for mechanics or anything its just a curiosity at what governs the affinities of things, it's a fascinating part of Cultist Sim and BoH that everything in the world no matter how mundane is inclined to at least one Lore and picking at the underlying reasons is something that lends itself well the Occultist mindset of seeking forbidden knowledge. I feel like this would be something I could see a Lantern Adept doing and making frantic scrawls in a notebook back before it all, getting obsessed with finding out how it all fits together and just failing to reach Glory for that distraction from the one true reward in the world.

 

[Solace2117]

The fact Velvet's income was higher then in a lot of starts helped us skip over the need the early expeditions. Honestly though I agree with Venerable Ro. Seeking out some of the easy expeditions we didn't bother with, plus search for more in general isn't a bad idea. I don't think the 1st Canterlot expedition was that expensive and a level 4 reagent would have cost Velvet 80 bits to make.
The artifacts may not be as useful for Velvet, but they make her followers more useful and can fill some gaps for the Names if needed. Plus they often have useful abilities and if push comes to shove can be sacrificed. It may cost a little upfront, but considering we tend to be strapped for bits it may be something to focus on. We seem to be a focusing more on summons which we can use and when we are able to introduce the Bureau to the Lore they'll come in handy.

 

[angelsadvocate666]

Maybe we should come along, we did just pick up that +20 to breaking things on top of the level 4 Forge.

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That is the Forge 4. It's the most basic application. Just because lore levels can be used in more ways on expeditions doesn't necessarily mean we can double dip on the way it's always usable.

Though we probably don't need to come along. I can't see the DC being much more than… probably 80, at most? The last forge check on the expedition was the last in that section, and amounted to cutting a hole into the side of the mountain entirely, and that was an 80. Velvet coming along would guaruntee the success.

Sure, we lost 1 hp once (or was it Rarity that lost it?) but that was a Nat1 failure, not even a normal one.

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It was Rarity.

Reading the start of the updoot and seeing the creation of Edge reagents and how Velvet struggles with metalworking, I realise that out of story it is a device to smoothly transition from reagent making into the book reading part of the turn but in story I am slightly curious about what consitutes a high level Edge reagent. Is it just a metal blade? The sharpness of an object? Is it that the objects purpose is entirely to cause harm or the amount of harm it could or has caused? What makes a reagent more powerful in Edge or better yet what makes it Edge over anything else in the first place?

Click to shrink...

I remember that Velvet made an Edge 3 candle for Comet's Influence ritual once. Not sure on the specifics though.

 

[Greymere]

Considering that Velvet is inclined to alchemy would it make her more biased to poisons or is that more Winter than Edge?

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I'm not sure if poison is associated with a single Lore in particular? That being said, there definitely a Knock-aspected poison in CS, but I don't remember if we have any more examples.

 

[Pittauro]

Considering that Velvet is inclined to alchemy would it make her more biased to poisons or is that more Winter than Edge?

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Poisons are actually mostly knock, as it's also the lore of snakes, poisons, openings and wounds (which are another type of opening, just in a body)

Edge is above all CONFLICT. Weapons are edge.

And of the Hours, the three main ones for Edge represent Cunning, Strenght and Agony.

Technically speaking I could see a written declaration of war be an Edge book, maybe even an Edge Artifact if It has enough Weight