Feudal Quest

[Robotninja]

[X] Obviously Atalaya is lying. Make Kat a job offer, and then start planning how to take out the witch.

 

[fitzgerald]

Changed vote

[X] Obviously Atalaya is lying. Make Kat a job offer, and then start planning how to take out the witch.

Everyone hates her already so killing her even if we can't produce foolproof evidence should be alright, plus we have some advantages over standard witchhunters in sniffing that sort of thing out. We'll probably want to handle this soon though or who knows what she'll get up to in preparation.

[X] Offer her a permanent position as your court mage
-Keep the relationship professional

 

[LanguagAe]

[X] Obviously Atalaya is lying. Make Kat a job offer, and then start planning how to take out the witch.

[X] Offer her a permanent position as your court mage
-Keep the relationship professional

 

[Arkeus]

[] Obviously Atalaya is lying. Make Kat a job offer, and then start planning how to take out the witch.
Am i the only one REALLY confused by the wording of that sentence, given that 'planning how to take out the witch' is what people had also voted for how to kill Kat earlier?

Please tell me you mean 'planning how to kill Atalaya'.

 

[Thomasfoolery]

Kat is a Sorceress+Wizardess, Atalya is a Witch + Necromancer?, seems pretty straightforward.

 

[DarkLight140]

I really don't like the way this vote is going, so I'll make another pitch.

At the moment, Atalya has actively helped us. We went to her house, told her we were the new lord and required her assistance, and she promptly handed over exactly the magical trinket that we needed to accomplish our objective. We told her she'd be appropriately rewarded, but it was not a terribly mercenary interaction- it was "prove yourself useful to me", with us turning down the 50/50 split she had earlier proposed in favor of asserting our authority, and she accepted that play.

In exchange for this service, many votes are backing plotting to kill her. She does what we ask of her, and we turn around and murder her with a clean conscience because, hey, Dita says her magic is skeevy and a mostly-naked criminal says she's a demon worshiper. Note that we are currently buying Dita's story that accusations of demon worship can be and are used to frame magical types and get them killed by those who find them inconvenient.

This is being a dick.

Now, as a lord, we're allowed to be a dick to whomever we want. We can basically order random peasants executed, kidnap their daughters and tie them up in our rape dungeon, seize merchants' goods for our own, and so forth. Our land, our business. If we say she's a demon-worshiping witch who needed to be executed for the good of everyone, no one will object and maybe it'll even be true.

But I do not think that we should be the sort of person who, based on thin suspicion, turns on those who have assisted him. Even if they're creepy. Working for us deserves better than a knife in the back.


So instead of making rash decisions and executing anyone, let's take measured, rational steps. Steps like telling both of them that we are in charge and while we consider ourselves a fairly magic-friendly lord, we will not be putting up with either murderous feuds or rampantly illegal things like mind control, necromancy, or demon worship. Opposition on that point can and will be crushed by ourselves, our retainers, our large numbers of soldiers, and if all else fails the witch hunters that we are quite capable of burning some political capital to send for. It's not an unreasonable stance to take. As long as they are willing to abide by that simple principle, they both get what they (presumably) want- the town's witch gets left alone and is well paid whenever we can use her services to our advantage, and the sorceress gets our political protection, such as it is, and a place to live and be appreciated.

And if this fails, because one or both of them turn out so psychotic and/or bloodthirsty that they can't stop trying to kill the other one, mind control the town or us, or whatever? We do exactly what we said we would, and kill them.


On the topic of sleeping with the sorceress, glad to see that everyone is 100% on board with ignoring her sex appeal. That one is a bundle of trouble that we don't need, whether it's potential mind control- she denies it, but really we only have her word on that since Dita explicitly told us that she wouldn't notice- or political issues. We already have two mistresses; Dita can try to score this one if she wants, I guess. But make her dress decently, honestly; I'd be embarrassed to be the lord employing someone wearing nothing more than what's shown in the image.

 

[fitzgerald]

Dark during he first sequence with Atalya I was seriously pondering this vote

[ ] Activate enhancements and kill this witch


I will be advocating killing her asap

 

[Graig]

Having more magic users is vary valuable and the witch appears to have some rather versatile magic. I would be ok with supporting DarkLight140 if Katinka can't provide proof that Atalaya is truly dangerous.

[X] Unless Katinka can provide proof for her claims about Atalaya
-[X]Plan DarkLight140

 

[ShaperV]

[] Obviously Atalaya is lying. Make Kat a job offer, and then start planning how to take out the witch.
Am i the only one REALLY confused by the wording of that sentence, given that 'planning how to take out the witch' is what people had also voted for how to kill Kat earlier?

Please tell me you mean 'planning how to kill Atalaya'.

Click to shrink...

Yes, this option is intended to mean 'you decide that Kat is a useful sorceress and Atalaya is an evil witch', rather than vice versa.

 

[Seventeen]

[X] Everything DarkLight says.

 

[Malcolmo]

In exchange for this service, many votes are backing plotting to kill her. She does what we ask of her, and we turn around and murder her with a clean conscience because, hey, Dita says her magic is skeevy and a mostly-naked criminal says she's a demon worshiper. Note that we are currently buying Dita's story that accusations of demon worship can be and are used to frame magical types and get them killed by those who find them inconvenient.

Click to shrink...

While I don't plan on killing her on this much evidence I do however want us to be suspicious of both her and Kat. Of the two however Atalya uses magic we know is outright viscous and has a reputation of cursing does who cross her. Now while I'm unwilling to fully take the peasants' word on this Kat's story has a lot more going for it then that. Additionally her service was done with full intention of getting rid of Kat permanently something which backs Kat's tale and our suspicions.

So instead of making rash decisions and executing anyone, let's take measured, rational steps. Steps like telling both of them that we are in charge and while we consider ourselves a fairly magic-friendly lord, we will not be putting up with either murderous feuds or rampantly illegal things like mind control, necromancy, or demon worship. Opposition on that point can and will be crushed by ourselves, our retainers, our large numbers of soldiers, and if all else fails the witch hunters that we are quite capable of burning some political capital to send for. It's not an unreasonable stance to take. As long as they are willing to abide by that simple principle, they both get what they (presumably) want- the town's witch gets left alone and is well paid whenever we can use her services to our advantage, and the sorceress gets our political protection, such as it is, and a place to live and be appreciated.

Click to shrink...

I'd rather not tip off a potential necromancer that we're on to her. We'd be better off gathering information and trying to build a case for it then we would be up and telling them that. Not to mention I highly doubt Atalya will willingly let us get Kat as a sorceress and will cause us trouble because of it. Ultimately I'd rather we didn't tell her we got Kat on our side and gathered information from her reaction.

On the topic of sleeping with the sorceress, glad to see that everyone is 100% on board with ignoring her sex appeal. That one is a bundle of trouble that we don't need, whether it's potential mind control- she denies it, but really we only have her word on that since Dita explicitly told us that she wouldn't notice- or political issues. We already have two mistresses; Dita can try to score this one if she wants, I guess. But make her dress decently, honestly; I'd be embarrassed to be the lord employing someone wearing nothing more than what's shown in the image.

Click to shrink...

While I'm fine with ignoring her sex appeal, why exactly are you so bothered about how she dresses? I'd rather we just leave her choice of attire to herself and only told her that if it were really necessary. Sorcerers are known to be a bit weird so it's not as if it's a normal human who's dressing that way which means people will take it differently.

 

[uju32]

You do not offer a strange mage a job UNTIL you see what she can do.
Making a lady you met in a cave your court mage without even a trial is STUPID, the kind of stupid that raises rumors of mind control or being led around by your dick.
And while she accused Atalya of necromancy, she has no references either; open minded is one thing, but don't be gullible or a soft touch.

As for Atalya, the accusations of necromancy are worrying, but the source is biased and presents no proof.
A woman's unpopularity is no reason to railroad her.
That's something for a priest or professional to resolve.
We have no proof, and Dita the god-touched noticed darkness, not evil, so benefit of the doubt holds.

VOTE
[X] This requires more investigation.
You are the law in these parts after all.
Is there evidence of either of their claims? For enchantment or necromancy/demon summoning?
No?
Then you have two magical women who dislike each other.
*shrug*
Fine Katerina for the house and take it out of her paycheck, assuming you hire her, or simply pay it off yourself as a bonus.
The Baron chasing her is not your problem.

If there are more worrying indications send for a competent priest.
And pay Atalya for her help finding Katarina; fair's fair.

[X] Hire her short-term to help with the haunts.
[X]If it works out, then hire her on as a court mage.
Keep it professional; you don't shit where you eat.

That way, you get to assess her magic skill in real life conditions, and if she's any good the tales will get spread around by your men, which means when you say she's not your mistress, at least some people will believe you.
And your parents and peers will give you the benefit of the doubt, which is important in building your reputation.

While I'm fine with ignoring her sex appeal, why exactly are you so bothered about how she dresses? I'd rather we just leave her choice of attire to herself and only told her that if it were really necessary. Sorcerers are known to be a bit weird so it's not as if it's a normal human who's dressing that way which means people will take it differently.

Click to shrink...

Because this is a patriarchal feudal state, not a liberal democracy.
Image matters here, as much for men as for women, and it's much easier to convince people you hired a pro if she dresses the part, rather than maintaining the seductress look.
How she dresses or behaves reflects on her employer, and flouting norms while a stranger gets you in trouble; I suspect if she had dressed more sedately she would have gotten more social backing against the last Baron's son that came looking for a quick shag.

I would not call her a harlot though; that's insulting.

 

[uju32]

I will also point out, on review, that Dita did not accompany us to see Atalya; she waited on the edge of town.
There is good reason to get her into range of Atalya's house or the lady herself and ask her opinion.
But it's only opinion, not proof.

Let's be better than the people who fried her parents.

 

[staplesdex2]

[X] Obviously Atalaya is lying. Make Kat a job offer, and then start planning how to take out the witch.
[X] Offer her a permanent position as your court mage
- With bonus pay if she'll add mistress to the job description

 

[fitzgerald]

Forgetting the dark energies that clung to us or the way the air spirit was bound to the dousing tool?

As for proof of work reconsider the cave Kat made purely with magic

 

[Arkeus]

Forgetting the dark energies that clung to us or the way the air spirit was bound to the dousing tool?

Click to shrink...

Hence 'Skivvy', though as far as we could tell this was neither "Summoning Demons" or "Mind Manipulation". I do believe that Atalya's probably out of bound, but we should 1°) give her the benefit of the doubt, 2°)give her a chance to stop doing any of the kill-order type magic and work for us.

 

[drake_azathoth]

Hence 'Skivvy', though as far as we could tell this was neither "Summoning Demons" or "Mind Manipulation". I do believe that Atalya's probably out of bound, but we should 1°) give her the benefit of the doubt, 2°)give her a chance to stop doing any of the kill-order type magic and work for us.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, because she seemed to brook competition or censure so well, right? Frankly, I think you guys are being greedy and arrogant. My guess is that if Atalya realizes we're investigating her, she'll move to kill us. Period.

At the very least, I'd be ready to move against her if a closer investigation with Dita in tow turns sour.

 

[uju32]

Forgetting the dark energies that clung to us or the way the air spirit was bound to the dousing tool?
As for proof of work reconsider the cave Kat made purely with magic

Click to shrink...

Dark =/= evil.
Dom is a ruler whose word is literally life or death; you should have better reasons for condemning someone than "she was old and I didn't like the colour of her magic."

It doesn't mean he should be a fool, or let down his guard; far from it.
But even the Church has higher standards(usually) for condemning someone for witchcraft.

And no, there is no proof that she dug that cave herself, as opposed to finding it.
And caves are really below the standard of work you'd usually look for in a sorcerer anyway.

Again, I will repeat: You haven't seen her work.
Not hearsay.
Not reports from other people.
DOMINIC.
He's the one who will be paying her, he is the one who will have to go to bat with an angry Baron when he comes calling.
He's the one who might have to intercede with church officials.
Ensure the juice is worth the squeeze.

 

[Walkir]

[X] Uju32, but

[X] When the subject comes up make it clear that Dominic wouldnt say no, keeping a potent earth mage around is of greater benefit than another mistress.
-> Besides getting married for politics is likely

 

[bastur2]

VOTE
[X] This requires more investigation.
You are the law in these parts after all.
Is there evidence of either of their claims? For enchantment or necromancy/demon summoning?
No?
Then you have two magical women who dislike each other.
*shrug*
Fine Katerina for the house and take it out of her paycheck, assuming you hire her, or simply pay it off yourself as a bonus.
The Baron chasing her is not your problem.

If there are more worrying indications send for a competent priest.
And pay Atalya for her help finding Katarina; fair's fair.

[X] Hire her short-term to help with the haunts.
[X]If it works out, then hire her on as a court mage.
Keep it professional; you don't shit where you eat.

 

[fitzgerald]

Dark =/= evil.

Again, I will repeat: You haven't seen her work.

Click to shrink...

On the witches magic

Story Post:

"Ew." Dita steps back from the dowsing charm. "That's a nasty looking thing. There's a little air spirit trapped in it, but what a mean way to do it. It's like the poor thing is impaled on spikes."

You frown. Is that witchcraft, or just a brutal flavor of wizardry? From the little you know it could be either.

"Oh, there's something on you too," Dita goes on. "Little wisps of something black and smelly. I don't think its a spell, just residue from being exposed to a lot of the stuff. Hey, let me try something."

Click to shrink...

Dita has the Blessings of Inovia, a Goddess dedicated to fighting evil. Dita specifically tells us the charm is using a particularly brutal method. Not to mention heavy residue of black unpleasant magical energy.


Story Post

The 'cave' turns out to me more like a tunnel, leading thirty feet or so into the hillside before making an abrupt turn and opening out into a small room. The construction is all smooth, flat stone, with a tile floor and mosaics inlaid in the walls. A stone fireplace with a chimney provides heat and light, although the pile of wood stacked neatly next to it is rather small.

A raised stone platform covered with moss and leaves apparently serves as a bed, and there are a couple of other stones shaped into a small table and chair. But aside from stonework the possessions in the room are pretty damned meager. A tattered blanket, a few wooden utensils, a worn-looking hatchet, and a dented tin pot seems to be the sum of her worldly goods.

Click to shrink...

A tunnel made out of smooth flat stone, a tile floor, decorated walls, fireplace and chimney.

Note the 'cave' is obviously made by Kat.

 

[uju32]

On the witches magic

Click to shrink...

That statement of mine was referring to KAT's handiwork, which we have yet to see.

Story Post:
Dita has the Blessings of Inovia, a Goddess dedicated to fighting evil. Dita specifically tells us the charm is using a particularly brutal method. Not to mention heavy residue of black unpleasant magical energy.

Click to shrink...

Yeah.So?
Black and smelly, not black and evil.
You'd expect a Blessed of a Goddess to know the difference.

Fecal matter is unpleasant and smelly too; it doesn't make anyone who poops an agent of the Evil Ones.
And a person can practice distasteful customs or magics without being evil.

Story Post
A tunnel made out of smooth flat stone, a tile floor, decorated walls, fireplace and chimney.
Note the 'cave' is obviously made by Kat.

Click to shrink...

Assuming facts not in evidence.
How do you know the cave wasn't created by someone else?
Or assuming Kat did so, whether the methods used to create it are acceptable to you?

 

[fitzgerald]

Yet not a mention that the charm was made using a brutal method of binding the spirit.

As for the cave being found by Kat and not her making it?

Shes a noted Earth Mage. Prove she didnt make it.

 

[uju32]

Yet not a mention that the charm was made using a brutal method of binding the spirit.

Click to shrink...

Again, so?
Brutality towards spirits? Not a crime.
Even if it was intentional, and you have no way of knowing if it was intentional, or just the best she could do.

And even if it was?
It may not speak well of the person doing so, just as abusing your pets would not, but it's not criminal.
Note that even Dita suggested so.

As for the cave being found by Kat and not her making it?
Shes a noted Earth Mage. Prove she didnt make it.

Click to shrink...

ALLEGED Earth mage.
Just as she is ALLEGED to have been bewitching the town council.

Dominic has not seen her use Earth magic, nor has anyone trustworthy; just as he's not seen her use enchantment on anyone.
And no, the onus is on you to prove that she is an Earth mage.
You are making the claim after all.

She is the self-confessed orphan of an itinerant traveller.
She has no bona fides, no references to vouch for her knowledge of magic, no books, no equipment.
And you want to take her at face value and give her a plum job like that, without the barest modicum of a trial of her abilities and character.
Despite knowing that you were sent here specifically to test your abilities and judgement.

Madness.

 

[fitzgerald]

Clap. Clap. Clap. Clap.

Thank you for ignoring every in game post thus far.

Kats creditentials have been mentioned several times already in thread. Even the witch has mentioned Kat has bloody powerful earth magic.

 

[Robotninja]

uju, you are being dumb here. There is more than enough circumstancial evidence, and investigating for more will tip her off and let her prepare nasty tricks. No witch lives to be old by leaving fucking obvious evidence saying "witch". It's the little things. Outright provable? No. Plausible? Yes. Lucky us, we are a feudal lord, we totally have the right to kill her based on plausible doubt. This is not a modern court system. We do not have a modern belief system. We do not believe in innocent until proven guilty.

Her story was very iffy anyways. Overall, the witch has a far greater chance of being a liar than the sorceress.

 

[uju32]

uju, you are being dumb here. There is more than enough circumstancial evidence, and investigating for more will tip her off and let her prepare nasty tricks. No witch lives to be old by leaving fucking obvious evidence saying "witch". It's the little things. Outright provable? No. Plausible? Yes. Lucky us, we are a feudal lord, we totally have the right to kill her based on plausible doubt. This is not a modern court system. We do not have a modern belief system. We do not believe in innocent until proven guilty.
Her story was very iffy anyways. Overall, the witch has a far greater chance of being a liar than the sorceress.

Click to shrink...

Of course we have the right.

We have the right to do lots of things; doesn't actually make it a good idea to follow through on most of them.
The most successful feudal lords take care to appear to be just, and to operate on a standard more rigorous than personal whim; predictably is a quality the powerless crave in their overlords, and it attracts people from elsewhere where the nobility is more capricious.

I will also point out that the same "plausibility standard" is significantly more damning for Kat.
She has a hearsay record of running and leaving dead bodies behind; first the Baron's son, then Manfried.
Same standards would make her a multiple murderer, or at least manslaughterer.
And yet no one has any qualms about hiring her.

And remember, Dom is an eighteen year old who has been sent here to learn.
This is a continuing exam, and our record is being scrutinised by not just our parents, but political rivals, and possible marriage matches as well.
Crossing your t's and dotting your i's is a good habit to get into; we won't always have a free hand, or only deal with peasants.

Circumstantial evidence is just that: circumstantial.
We have no evidence of crime being committed by Atalya, unlike Kat, and noone has accused her of anything, again unlike Kat.
And for dirty tricks, we have Dita, an actual military force, and our own magic; magic in this verse is not all-powerful, else Kat would not be hiding in the woods from mundane pursuers.

Besides, if expedience is our watchword, we wouldn't be chasing Atalya either.

Clap. Clap. Clap. Clap.
Thank you for ignoring every in game post thus far.
Kats creditentials have been mentioned several times already in thread. Even the witch has mentioned Kat has bloody powerful earth magic.

Click to shrink...

The legal term, I believe, is hearsay.
Not a single person who claims Kat is a wizard, has actually seen her use Earth magic.
Even Atalya did not claim she saw her do so.

And then there's the second point: The same people who called her a powerful Earth user, also called her a mind enchanter.
If her accusers are credible on the one claim, they are credible on the other.
You can't choose to believe one, without believing the other, not without more evidence.

And Dominic does not have access to our OOC knowledge either.

 

[Robotninja]

No. She has a reputation as an earth mage. She used earth magic to kill the baron's son when he tried to rape her. She does in fact have earth magic. You are being dumb with your "what if she does not have earth magic" line. Her "enchantment" is just being really hot, and the witch was feeding us a line of bs to try and get us to kill her without talking to her.

We would not be acting on whim here. We would be killing a witch. I don't quite think you understand the degree to which people are willing to go "purge" with witches. We totally have enough evidence right now to kill her, tell every witch hunter in the land, and have them agree that it was 100% justified.


Yes, we can likely deal with the trick. But I don't want to deal with a demon. Demons are bullshit and dangerous.

 

[ShaperV]

It looks like there's a strong consensus for moving forward with hiring Kat (possibly with a trial period or some investigation of her powers first), but a lot of disagreement about what if anything to do with Atalaya. So I'm going to assume Dominic is similarly undecided about that part, and move things forward a bit. Perhaps the next few days will give you enough new information to come to an agreement.

 

[Robotninja]

When that backfires, I reserve the right to say I told you so.