Forging Ahead (GURPS Interstellar Wars/Celestial Forge)

[Ovid]

Hmm. That prompts me to think of a comparison in Stellaris terms. In BT, the Star League was more of a "build wide" strategy, whereas in this setting, humanity is forced into a "build tall" strategy.

So the BT mobile automated factories are designed more for long distance conflicts (to bring at least part of your supply chain with you), but possibly less useful when you already have settled and industrialized planets.

...actually, the point someone else made earlier about BT jump drives being able to jump to deep space (as well as much further) means humanity might actually need that automated factory tech to quickly exploit newly available star systems. It just requires Sophia first get her hybrid jump tech functional.

I had another idea about setting up backup infrastructure in deep space, but thinking again, that seems high risk in terms of BT jump drive maintenance simply to supply a deep-space manufacturing complex. After all, even in BT, there's a reason most jumpships stick with decently visited and known systems, just in case something goes wrong and the drive wrecks itself.

 

[Faralis]

I was thinking about the main reason they put her in that patrol boat, and IIRC she told them that she wanted to be "normal" but she thought she couldn't. Maybe they put her in that "normal" job so she could taste it at least for awhile? Specially because she could be near her family.

It's a bit confusing, but it is at least a decent reason IMVHO...

 

[ryune]

Given BT tech and the situation that humanity is in here… Zofia pushing drone and automation tech as hard as she can is probably the optimal strategy. Oh, an FTL drive unmoored to being forced to jump into and from a gravity well and FTL comms are great but… Well even if they get deep strike capability on the Vilani that doesn't help defend their own worlds.

If she can set up a warfare paradigm with a bunch of CASPAR drones managed by a command ship? That very nicely helps offset their major disadvantages to at least some degree. Even more so if they can automate stuff like mining and production to the point that BT humanity managed.

Incidentally, there is one thing that I don't know if BT humanity actually weaponized but their HPG tech is also useful as an inter system FTL weapon platform if you can figure out how to aim it. It functions specifically by causing a highly energetic electromagnetic explosion at the destination as a way of carrying information and sort of gets "sucked in" by an HPG's receiver but if you don't have one at the destination? Boom!

 

[IsaacTheAutobot1229]

I decided to look up a few lore playlists for the author and everyone else since I figure it is easier to listen than read it all.

Here is a good one by GrimDark Narrator that does mechs, vehicles, ships, technology, and history. I picked it since it covers a lot of stuff and each video is about 15 minutes or less and 20 minutes at maximum.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbPlvqVBKyJ7wYbVrBSJedZ-mTNXuWebl

 

[Domino]

Zofia pushing drone and automation tech as hard as she can is probably the optimal strategy.

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Stepping back from a pure military standpoint, I agree that automation and drone tech is really high up there on potential priorities she can be looking into. Especially considering how small Humanity is compared to the rest of the setting at this moment, as well as the fact that it's been pointed out that the government has been looking to dial back military buildup and focus on more civilian infrastructure.

 

[Fellgar]

So automation and the joys of exponential growth?

 

[Cheetored20]

Even more impossible than you know, because at least one race of nonhuman sapients - the Vegans - are a current Vilani vassal.

And the Confederation knows they exist, that's public data in Vilani space.

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Simple solution. Make a virus that targets them first. Now it looks like someone else wants the advantage. Then you do the next one. Not that I'm saying this should happen, just if you're going to do it you won't stop at just one if you can throw in a bit of psyops

 

[Sceptic]

You know what I'd do if I were in her position and I was trying to save up 600cp?

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She wasn't trying to save up specifically for a 600cp perk, she was saving up for a perk that would help. She's (reasonably) assuming that a higher value perk will help more, but she has no reason to believe that a lower value perk won't come along with exactly what she needs.

A normal person wouldn't constantly splurge on cheap perks, especially when they don't know when they will get their next batch of CP. No instead they will do what the SI did. Save up points for a particularly good perk. The only time you would rapidly spend CP on cheaper perks is when you have an excess of points.

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Saving up points is fine, but when you have options rolling in and out regularly you don't want to miss it when something comes along that explicitly gives you exactly what you think you need, no matter how many points it does or doesn't cost.

Every time we see in her head, she is utterly panicked about this other human empire. That got old quick. The thing is that also makes us that have little knowledge of the setting think that next war will roll around in just a couple of months or maybe a year or two. Not like a decade or two out.

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She's been told that she can do something to affect the war that might happen tomorrow, next week, next month, or in five decades. And that she alone has the power to hand Earth a win. And her only close family is currently living at one of the first places that will be attacked in the event of war.

She's focused on it for good reason.

 

[Blade4]

Hmm. That prompts me to think of a comparison in Stellaris terms. In BT, the Star League was more of a "build wide" strategy, whereas in this setting, humanity is forced into a "build tall" strategy.

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Ah more like the star league was a pyramid scheme by Terra and House Cameron to control all of humanity by doling out advanced tech and ending the age of war. It was to be a promise of peace and prosperity... built by the single most horrific war Humans every fought forcible enslaving the periphery nations. Well most horrific until house cameron was killed off and the other houses decided the best way to fix that succession crisis was the 5 of them fighting a series of to the knife wars....

Hmm lore videos? Over all Black Pant Legion. But they are all at least 30 minutes to a hour or two long so bring a drink and popcorn. Big Red 40k has a lot of good stuff though more focused on mechs but will pick up plenty in between.

 

[protoss16]

Solely looking at results, them giving her no r&d assignments caused her to invent a theory for a new form of ftl.

 

[litaispe]

Hmm. That prompts me to think of a comparison in Stellaris terms. In BT, the Star League was more of a "build wide" strategy, whereas in this setting, humanity is forced into a "build tall" strategy.

Click to shrink...

BT built both wide and tall, but the Cameron's Star league empire centralized critical knowledge and industry. They went out of their way to ensure all known human space was materially dependent on Earth and a few core territories as a means of social control

When the Star League suffered a cataclysmic civil war, this war saw large scale deliberate destruction of industrial and knowledge centers. ComStar deliberately withheld knowledge and would active hunt down and murder anyone who tried to rebuild the technology base past 20 century. The surviving Star League military force decamped and fucked off outside known human space led by a complete nutbar, and stripped many massive supply depots and mega-scale industrial equipment on their way out.

 

[Kyrin Fireheart]

-snip

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You are entitled to your opinion. But here's where ya messed up. You are mad that Sophia isn't doing things or acting like you would. But Sophia is not you. And like Sceptic said she has been told by an OCP that if she doesn't personally do something Humanity WILL lose the next war. Second, you believe that she has a couple of decades at least to fuck around before she needs to start getting serious. Whereas, if I'm reading the dates right, she has less than 2 years before the shit hits the fan. Even if I'm wrong on the dates or Cliff pushes it back for whatever reason, mass production of new technology takes time even just for the infrastructure.

 

[Cheetored20]

still can't build any battlefield targeting system substantially more accurate than unstabilized guns firing over iron sights.

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That's because it's lostech. I wish I was joking, ComStar are assholes like that. Also the ranges are nerfed from the actual values for the tabletop.

 

[rkbinder]

But yeah, keep tossing in those bits of Battletech tech lore, folks.

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So people have already made reference to the terraforming (they did Mars at the height of the Star League) and the Iron wombs, so here is some tech I think is a little more hidden.

Cybernetics and medical tech- While mostly in Canopous (where they have catgirl surgery) Comstar did have cyborg fanatic super soldiers that couldn't feel pain as part of the Jihad.

Mech Components- The standard structure (and endo-steel as well) are a 'metal foam' that his covered with a special layer to give it strength, The Myomer is an artificial muscle that has a canon retraction of 90% at max (human muscle is 23-33% I think) and made with special grown bacteria, The gyro is a tech all on its own, with a single 3 ton unit able to balance a 100 ton mech going 50km/hr and finally the Neurohelmet is a Mind-machine interface without implants and provides feedback so you 'feel' the movements of the mech.

Combat Vehicles- nuff said.

Industrial Mechs- There are some quad-mechs that work in the transport industry for offroad work

Exoskeletons- People will most likely think battlearmor, but industrial exoskeletons helped build the inner sphere in the first place.

The Wall

 

[Kyrin Fireheart]

The Wall sounds perfect for what the Confederation needs desperately.

 

[Prince Chrom]

The standard K-F drive needs a week between uses to charge if you don't want to run the risk of something going wrong. What we don't know is how the new hybrid drive Sophia wants to build will perform.

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I suspect that she'll try and keep the Traveller ability to make a new jump as soon as you've calculated the route.

 

[Knaka]

Thanks again for the story.

Funny thing happened to me about this:

"Gladstone." I thought out loud. "The naming convention means it's one of the new Bannerjee-class SDBs, isn't it?"

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This name struck me as odd when I first read it. I was wondering why the ship was called a 'Bannerjee' class. I didn't recognize that name, and I assumed it must be some reference to something. Part of me even wondered if it was a Vilani (however you spell it) word, but why would the Terrans use a Vilani word for their ships? As I read, I came up with many different obscure theories to try to figure out what this meant.

Then I decided to reread the story later, and had my questioned answered in the beginning of the first chapter of this story. Welp.

Edit: by first chapter I mean the introduction post, not chapter one.

 

[Narwhale]

I suspect that she'll try and keep the Traveller ability to make a new jump as soon as you've calculated the route.

Click to shrink...

It should be noted that the issue isn't calculation, I'm pretty sure it's charge time, so the bottleneck isn't processing, it's power output from a reactor and power input into the Drive. So the K-F drive is kinda like a Battery that you can only used when fully charged, the issue isn't that you don't know where to put it, it's just not ready yet. The best way to solve that issue would be finding a better way to decrease the time needed to charge up the drive battery between jumps.

 

[Prince Chrom]

It should be noted that the issue isn't calculation, I'm pretty sure it's charge time, so the bottleneck isn't processing, it's power output from a reactor and power input into the Drive. So the K-F drive is kinda like a Battery that you can only used when fully charged, the issue isn't that you don't know where to put it, it's just not ready yet. The best way to solve that issue would be finding a better way to decrease the time needed to charge up the drive battery between jumps.

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I'm pointing out that the Traveller drive doesn't have a charge time at all, so if she can get the range and speed of the Battletech drive and combine it with the charge time of the Traveller drive it removes the problem.

 

[Narwhale]

I'm pointing out that the Traveller drive doesn't have a charge time at all, so if she can get the range and speed of the Battletech drive and combine it with the charge time of the Traveller drive it removes the problem.

Click to shrink...

Well, from what it seems, Zofia is combining the two thusly: Grav fields to prevent the need for a specified Jump-point and Vilani Jumpdrive features that ensure it is small and can fit in the hulls of current ships. Other than that, it's a pure K-F drive.

Also, I'm not entirely sure you could combine tech in the way you're suggesting without a Fiat-style perk that allows you to do so.

 

[ShaperV]

On the topic of Sofia's assignment, the part I found most interesting doesn't seem to have been pointed out yet. I can dream up all sorts of reasons why the GP might have drafted her and put her on a navy ship, but none of them seem consistent with the group's supposed mission.

Consider a RL parallel. If I'm a recruiter for DARPA, and I run across the next Einstein working in a cubicle somewhere, do I need to conduct psychological evaluations and figure out how he handles stress? Do I need to guide his professional development, and get him practical experience in non-technical fields? Maybe draft him into the marines, and have him go practice assaulting beaches for a couple of years to toughen him up?

Of course not. Technical people don't need to be grounded, reliable, morally pure, psychologically tough, good at shooting people, or any of that other stuff. Their job (as far as my boss is concerned) is to do sciencey things in a lab somewhere, and produce results we can try to turn into something useful. Nine times out of ten you can get that by just offering them a job, and there's no need for any further complications. Even with the exceptions, it's usually just a matter of deciding whether their talents are valuable enough to make it worth putting up with their foibles. So what I'm going to do is verify this maybe-Einstein's abilities as well as I can in a short time frame, do a background check to make sure he isn't a spy or terrorist, and then get him a job somewhere that seems like a good fit. Once he has work experience in the right field my job is done, and it's on to the next candidate.

So, what kind of classified government agency would handle Sophia the way we've seen the GP do things? Well, if you're running a black program that needs a few politically reliable geniuses you might want to stress-test candidates before telling them anything sensitive. Or if you work for a totalitarian state with good PR, and you're more worried about staying in control than anything else, you might just want to sideline a disruptive influence. Or maybe it's some other option (there are certainly plenty of possibilities). But it seems to me that all of them imply the GP is straying light years away from their supposed purpose, because if they were actually just talent scouts the idea of pulling Sophia out of academia to serve a tour in the navy would never have even occurred to them.

 

[drakensis]

My own suspicion of what would be done with a K-F Drive at this point is to look for some star systems that aren't normally accessible by Jump-2 drives and settle one or more as a 'fallback' location where Terran culture and population can survive if the worst comes to the worst.

This would also be where research and construction takes place because letting the Vilani get anywhere near the technology would be a grievous error.

Later those fallbacks might become valuable industrial nodes that could be used for a counterattack if the worst happens. And then after they're fully developed, they might become strategically defensible shipyards for the Terran navy, since they're out of Vilani reach. By that point, of course, the situation could have changed entirely.

This is all entirely speculation and cliffc999 will write what he wants to write. I'm excited to find out what that will be.

 

[Faralis]

This would also be where research and construction takes place because letting the Vilani get anywhere near the technology would be a grievous error.

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Yeah, approaching the company her mother works for is logical, starting the research in the planet nearest the Vilani absolutely not...

 

[Dextority]

I do appreciate the shift that the story has taken, because it has actually diverged a lot from how Cliff has previously written. I think a lot of the nitpicks that people have aren't really valid, or they have completely justifiable explanations. This was an absolutely fantastic chapter that actually solved a lot of future problems.

My own theory on the Genius Patrol? Simply, put, these are high-ranked individuals who are subject to their own foibles, it's entirely possible that this was a way to placate some of their fears, in that they want her to go through these stressors because they can either wash her out and take full control with justification to their own superiors, or they have a loyal genius who'll make the terrible things they need her to make if it's phrased properly in 'saving the Confederation' in their own egotistical way.

Now of course, I could be completely wrong. Also, I'm not saying that the Genius Patrol is evil, but that having what seems to be a fair amount of ego, paranoia and a desire to use her as a stepping stone for their careers while reducing the personal blowback, is pretty much a certainty. Even if they are as certain people say, 'lawful good', they are still subject to the need to maintain their status and if they want to influence events beyond talent-searching, need to uplift it. That requires a certain mindset that can lead to things such as what we saw.

That's the Watsonian explanation of course.

The Doylist explanation is that Cliff is a military man and knows that having the training as an officer, familiarity with combat and strategy, and other such things at the sci-fi Space Naval Officer Academy is very desirable to have, especially if you want to strike out on your own as your resident super-person.

Regardless, this is a great chapter and I look forward to more.

 

[Raron]

And here am I am thinking that Genius Patrol has a actual long term plan with Sophia, which actually makes sense if you look at it from their perspective. They have a super-genius which went paranoid and is thinking Vilani will invade, when all their info and psychological profiling on Vilani indicates they won't, said profiling is information that in no shape or form should Sophia have. A supergenius is only as good as info she wields, and she has very little compared to actual information gathering services. Considering the history of genius burnouts (which are a common thing) under heavy stress, one would seek to actually tempter her and give some order in her life. Conscripting her, and positioning her near her family, in arguably one of safest places (bridge of a starship) from their perspective does that. This would in theory calm her, focus her and mean that Confederation has a stable genius in near future. Further shaping her in a desired direction (combat ships) is a pretty good push from their perspective too, especially since it makes her work through her fears.

But well, their expectations are about to go through the window in that case, since she literally just rewrote the technological and tactical map. Because when somebody rewrites your understanding of universe we stand in (and inventing a new FTL does that), people have a existential crisis. Literally everything from ignoring, prison, decoration and promotion is on the table in terms of result.

 

[GAMB42]

Zofia having actual naval experience is probably a really good idea on the GP's part. To reference Honor Harrington since it actually comes up in story itself, they want a Honor Harrington and not a Sonia Hemphill.

Sonia was a brilliant engineer and in "Basilisk Station" she developed a weapon that could be fitted to a destroyer that basically nullified the defensive shields of the setting if it hit and was even effective on the largest scale ships in existence. The weapon itself fulfilled that purpose masterfully... when it could actually be used. Problem being, Destroyers are fucking snowflakes before the star's worth of defensive fire those same large scale ships could put out. It was also a knife fight ranged weapon so they needed to get in close. So yeah, we have a weapon that is super effective when it actually gets into position to use it on a ship that will melt long before it can be used and takes up space that other weapons used to extend the life of the ship with defensive fire. Not a great combination that utterly cripples the ship it was mounted on.

Honor on the other hand spent decades on ships and was pretty much the only person that actually got that weapon to function, once.

In setting, the central conceit of the early books is that naval warfare hasn't changed for hundreds of years. This is a consequence of them finding a very special niche with missile warfare that it has become basically a chess game. There are plays and counter plays and even truly innovative maneuvers now and then but for the most part it's punishing the enemy for making a mistake rather than any brilliance on your own part.

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I find it quite amusing that you reference the military/Genius Patrol wanting a Honor Harrington instead of a Sonia Hemphill when in the Honorverse the reason Manticore (Honor and Sonia's star nation) experienced long term actual strategic success was because of Sonia Hemphill and the rest of the R&D military people continuous efforts on R&D. Sure, Honor is the titular MC and hero of the series but the main reason she and her nation ends up winning is that space warfare is changed with the introduction of starfighters, extra large barrages of longer reach missiles and finally longer range precise targeting thanks to FTL communications. Oh sure, Honor helped develop some of the tech I just referenced thanks to her incredible tactical and strategic knowledge and experience and was the one to use them on the battlefield. But the actual development was not done by her.

And would you look at that. This fic's MC is supposed to be Sonia with the tech uplift, not Honor. They even have some paralels given it is also a story of conflict between 2 insterstellar nations with some very different characteristics such as size, culture, tech development, etc...

You are entitled to your opinion. But here's where ya messed up. You are mad that Sophia isn't doing things or acting like you would. But Sophia is not you. And like Sceptic said she has been told by an OCP that if she doesn't personally do something Humanity WILL lose the next war. Second, you believe that she has a couple of decades at least to fuck around before she needs to start getting serious. Whereas, if I'm reading the dates right, she has less than 2 years before the shit hits the fan. Even if I'm wrong on the dates or Cliff pushes it back for whatever reason, mass production of new technology takes time even just for the infrastructure.

Click to shrink...

I'm not familiar with the setting so I can't really comment on the whole issue with the dates, though if it is correct and there is less than 2 years before the next war then all our speculation is pretty much worthless. Because as you said one does not create, prove, test and start to market a new enhanced FTL drive technology in less than 2 years. Which means all her efforts so far are gonna taste like ashes in her mouth, since she didn't change a thing since she started her journey more than 5 years ago. Now that would be quite a kick in the teeth for her.

 

[ryune]

I find it quite amusing that you reference the military/Genius Patrol wanting a Honor Harrington instead of a Sonia Hemphill when in the Honorverse the reason Manticore (Honor and Sonia's star nation) experienced long term actual strategic success was because of Sonia Hemphill and the rest of the R&D military people continuous efforts on R&D. Sure, Honor is the titular MC and hero of the series but the main reason she and her nation ends up winning is that space warfare is changed with the introduction of starfighters, extra large barrages of longer reach missiles and finally longer range precise targeting thanks to FTL communications. Oh sure, Honor helped develop some of the tech I just referenced thanks to her incredible tactical and strategic knowledge and experience and was the one to use them on the battlefield. But the actual development was not done by her.

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You'll note that I never actually besmirched Sonia's genius or the efficacy of the inventions that came out of the weapons development board in HH. They clearly had an amazingly effective R&D apparatus. Just that the implementation in that specific book was so hamfisted and stupid that it took an otherwise incredibly effective weapon and crippled any possibility of it being put into a situation needed to actually be effective.

Now, there could have been any number of reasons for the grav lance being stuck on a destroyer that were purely political and out of Sonia's hands but it still got implemented in a way that would kill the project dead. Notably however, the same tech involved was later developed into part of that FTL communication mechanism.

Though, I suppose we are staying from the point I was trying to make in the post which was that it doesn't matter how amazing the wonder weapon on paper is if the implementation doesn't work in real world conditions.

 

[cliffc999]

Now, there could have been any number of reasons for the grav lance being stuck on a destroyer that were purely political and out of Sonia's hands but it still got implemented in a way that would kill the project dead.

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To be fair, when Admiral Hemphill was finally told about what had happened to Honor her reaction was "... what fucking idiot assigned an untested prototype design that wasn't ever supposed to leave the testing track to a frontline combat position?!?'

(Answer: Admiral Edward Janacek, the single worst CNO and most inept naval strategist in Manticorean history.)

However, another thing to note from Honor Harrington is that Hemphill's designs, however brilliant, didn't really start turning the tide until after field commanders like, well, Honor herself, started getting input into the process. Because she had to know what to build.

Heck, one of Honor's greatest contributions to RMN naval superiority was also one of the most easily overlooked - she's the one who got Admiral Hemphill and Admiral White Haven actually talking to each other, instead of past each other, and when the RMN's best R&D director finally got on the same page as the RMN's most senior field commander, then shit actually started working.

 

[Domino]

Now, there could have been any number of reasons for the grav lance being stuck on a destroyer that were purely political and out of Sonia's hands but it still got implemented in a way that would kill the project dead. Notably however, the same tech involved was later developed into part of that FTL communication mechanism.

Click to shrink...

I'd have to go back to read On Basilisk Station, but IIRC honor actually talks about why it was placed on a destoryer - it was a proof of concept that people who only saw the navy as numbers in simulations put up, because they figured that the role for a ship like the Fearless would be to sneak in a killshot on a much larger combat vessel, and the designers didn't care if the Fearless got killed while doing it, because the tonnage differential would massively favor the Mantacorian side - not caring, if they even spared a thought, for the lives of the crewmen serving on said ship who would die each time they were effectively sacrificed like that.

They signed up for the navy without the family connections to ensure they didn't get that kind of posting, they should happy to die for their betters after all.

 

[GAMB42]

I will note that the grav lance and the force torpedoes weapon systems are never mentioned again as pratical weapons again and I think there is a post of the author somewhere mentioned he didn't consider them canonic to the setting later timeline for some reason or another but I completely agree that having the R&D and the actual users being capable of talking which each other and solving each other issues is very important.

My question is if "somebody" actually explained that to the Confederation Brass or to Sophia herself. It is ultimately why i think she went for FTL as the tech she is gonna upgrade instead of weapons or defenses, since it is the one easyest to enhance given what she has available, which is basically ungodly amounts of high math she can do/develop herself at the worst scenario and a civilian FTL experimental lab to prove her theories.

I will also note that I think so far her drafting has had a negative effect on her ability to affect the outcome of the War to come, mainly because everything positive that it could offer, mostly the networking and real life experience, came with a really high time cost, especially if we consider the next war is about to start in a couple of years.