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General World of Darkness Discussion Thread QQ Edition

Discussion in 'General' started by Maragas, Apr 7, 2021.

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  1. Rakdos92

    Rakdos92 Goosh Goosh

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    What are these disagreements?
     
  2. Repentant_Dragos

    Repentant_Dragos I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Please don't ask.
     
  3. gereh

    gereh Know what you're doing yet?

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    Has anyone picked up the new Mage Book "The Operative's Dossier" yet? From the description they have online I'm not all that sure on that one and I was wondering if it was worth picking up.

    And since the Trove was taken down, it has been becoming difficult to get a look at them before buying. So I was wondering if someone around here had the book and could tell me if it's worth it's money or not.

    While we are at the topic of new releases and if they are worth it: Anyone had time to check out the first episode of "New York by Night" yet?
     
  4. Maragas

    Maragas I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    The Operative's Dossier is a decent book. A great one if you are a Technocracy player. Though it does have weird points which I talked about in SB.

    Here are some example rotes/procedures from it.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    And a new device that quickly become one of my favorites;
    [​IMG]

    There are also good bits on Digital Web and Construct/Chantry creation, which is fun.

    As for the weirdness...well.
     
  5. gereh

    gereh Know what you're doing yet?

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    Thanks that was really helpful .

    Oh god, I just had a horror scenario in my mind, what they don't use the other 20th Edition but the 5th one for their future mage releases? Thankfully that is pretty unlikely
     
  6. Repentant_Dragos

    Repentant_Dragos I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    I heard it turned NaValon/The Harbingers of Avalon into white supremacists who are also Anti-Welsh (okay, kept them that way instead of Retconning that nonsense out).

    Which is bad as I made a Welsh NaValon Character for a game which I then left.
     
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  7. Maragas

    Maragas I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    To be honest, I don't really bother reading much into Operative's Dossiers faction/group write ins since like I said, it's in a very weird place.
    Let's take Navalon for example. They say, in the Dossier, the Technocracy executed all the OG members of the group. And the remaining members are leaving the Technocracy because to quote their own words, Minimize harm, share information and make friends.
    [​IMG]
    But...the Technocracy in the Operative Dossier is already halfway to their ideals. It's Ascension Truce, they are working together with the Traditions.
    [​IMG]
    Like...why the hell the Technocracy execute their OG members, why the hell are they leaving and why the fuck wouldn't you use the current events to boost your faction's influence within the Technocracy.

    So really, my advice would be to forget about Operative Dossier's plot options for the factions you want to play as and continue with what the Technocracy Reloaded or Revised material said.
     
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  8. Repentant_Dragos

    Repentant_Dragos I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Thanks, Mar!
     
  9. Lucidum

    Lucidum Verifiably Bored

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    Lately, I've been looking into the Toreador and encountered their Nephilim Bloodline in the DAv20 Companion and how many of their number are on the Path of the Archangel.

    The Hierarchy of Sins seems vague, so I was wondering if anyone could answer a few questions or give their own view on the Path.

    https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Path_of_the_Archangel

    Sin 1/7 - "Refusing to make a Major Sacrifice" / "Refusing to make a Minor Sacrifice"
    Is this 'Sacrifice' meant to be relative to the character on the path and what they consider a major or minor sacrifice?

    Sin 4 - "Indulging in temptations of the flesh"
    Is this meant to be a complete cutoff of sexual/bodily activities or is this referencing more casual encounters (Sex/Drugs/Blood just for the explicit purpose of pleasure) without long-term reasons/emotions for said actions such as love? or is this instead referencing to overindulgence to the point that it becomes a vice?

    Sin 6 - "Leaving a fellow Toreador to languish unbaptized"
    I'm presuming this is meant as a best-effort sort of deal to try and get other Toreador onto the Path of the Archangel?

    Sin 10 - "Indulging in any temptation"
    What does this even represent? Following your base urges into doing things that aren't in your long-term best interests for short-term benefits? or is this similar to what I brought up for Sin 4 with it not being the character's actions but the overindulgence of their actions?

    The Rationale for this isn't very helpful either, "True Katharsis purges all passions", which makes it sound like the end result of the Path of Archangel is to turn you into a discount True Brujah which I don't believe is the intent.
     
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  10. gereh

    gereh Know what you're doing yet?

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    I will give my interpretations here:
    Yes
    As the path follows the "traditional" christian teachings, I would presume it's the equivalent of the celibate. So completely cutting of any sexual acts.
    The celibate isn't a "traditional" practice, it wasn't something that was practice in the early days of Christianity. It was first offical established in 1139 even if the whole argument goes back a while. But it isn't even a unified practice inside the catholic church e.g. the "Eastern Catholic Church" does allow for married priest.

    Also Michael who the Path was designed after famously had lovers so, not sure how well that "sin" fits.

    Depends what "best effort" means, I don't think you are allowed to go "I tried my best" and let off, you can go easy for a while on them but you can't let off.
    The "end result" of the path is to become a tool of god's divine will (or at least what you believe is god's divine will) as such you aren't supposed to feel any passion (besides maybe the passion for spreading god's divine will). You can now make philosophic arguments about how much of person is still there after you got rid of all it's passion, but I will not be getting into that.

    Or in short, they are group of christian fanatics, who want to become a empty shell of a person that only exist to do gods work. Also there are probably some Lasombra laughing at them.
     
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  11. Lucidum

    Lucidum Verifiably Bored

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    Yeah, this was honestly the one that stuck out as the most awkward due to Michael's history and how the path is meant to emulate him. It was also why I was asking since it seemed odd that the path dedicated to Michael would cut off sexual acts entirely.

    I honestly might just headcanon it, Celibate but allowed "Marriage"

    That makes sense, similar in practice to other religious organizations when trying to convert someone.

    Ah, I figured they were closer in philosophy to the Path of Divinity for the Road of Heaven due to their perspective of Michael as a Christ-like figure and them taking up the mantel of guiding angels for mortals.

    Which, the other tenants of the path doesn't really work well towards this Sin either, by the end, you should be performing creative works every day, being willing to make any sort of sacrifice, and inspiring those in need. But then you get not "Indulging in any temptation" because "True katharsis purges all passions". So you can't be passionate about your creative works or while inspiring others. It just feels like a weird thematic conclusion for the path.

    Overall, thank you for the response. If nothing else it's given me a clearer idea of what exactly the path is and what it's trying to do.
     
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  12. shadowdice

    shadowdice Connoisseur.

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    Celibacy as a concept has changed over time (like chastity) where it originally meant keeping it in your marriage and limiting the ways one has sex so I rule it as staying faithful and not weird in bed

    tempations of the flesh I go with no drugs, alcohol, so on

    Temptation in general I rule through the Christian lens of Sinning with the intention of the path being to become a saint and Kartharsis as their term for Golconda
     
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  13. gereh

    gereh Know what you're doing yet?

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    If you look up Paul Bathalos one of the founder of the Nephillim you can see where the idea comes from. He believed some weird stuff, but most importantly he feared that Michael would turn into a fallen angel because of their relationship.

    From what I remember the early "celibate" and "marriage" weren't exclusive, it's more like you could live in celibate while being married, just keep it in your pants. Also it helps to keep in mind that those Christians really believed that the end of the world would be coming soon, as in, that it would happen in their lifetime, so there was an argument for not siring children, if you read a lot of the earlier stuff christian are supposed to do and not do with that in mind, it paints a bit of different picture of the whole "you shouldn't indulge" parts you find in a lot of the letters of apostles. Because if you are a fat drunk lazy dude you will not become an able fighter in the army of Christ.

    I think you can, they probably would say thinks like: "While you are doing it, you are just an instrument of god divine will, so the passion you feel isn't your passion, it's just the divine will flowing through you." As such it's okay to passionate when doing "your job" as it's not "your passion".
     
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  14. shadowdice

    shadowdice Connoisseur.

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    I am thinking about writing a dark ages story from the view of a fledgling but am not sure about what clan I might want to use

    My main thoughts are Tzimisce, Ventrue, Giovanni, or maybe Caitiff
     
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  15. gereh

    gereh Know what you're doing yet?

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    If you are looking for help deciding: I'm personally biased towards Tzimisce as they are my favourite clan after all, but I guess it depends mostly on what kind of story you want to tell. Also a Tremere would make for an interesting choice.
     
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  16. shadowdice

    shadowdice Connoisseur.

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    I am thinking about what clan to use, my general thought is that the clan of origin should be secondary

    The general idea is of a young (relatively) vampire that runs the day to day of an adoptive sire that is old and new to the medieval British isles.

    The stat block I ended up making is of a not himbo (really high strength attractiveness 3 int 3) who manages to come off as one due to having man 1 and not bothering any attempt at trying to socially manipulate others.

    Just, one of many sons of a noble who wasn't going to inherit anything so he became very good at Sword and economics/running a house so he got turned into a vampire by an elder who ran afoul of Mithras and got ganked when "I am totally a sun god" came back to London, so he started working for a different elder.

    Straight up an ancient several thousand year old elder and their "adoptive childe" looking out the window while everyone plots and schemes before closing the blinds and trying to avoid other people's messes.

    (Strength 5 Melee 4 is a good deterrent on top of having Legerdemain/dex to hide a stake on one's person)

    No law, no politics, but has some academics/enigmas for general things and the only stats above 2 are melee and commerce. But has lots of ones and twos in others for an overall generalist build that can take his adoptive "Sire" around to do things.

    Etiquette 2, ride 2, occult 2, legerdemain 2 because weird noble
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2022
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  17. gereh

    gereh Know what you're doing yet?

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    Oh I read that wrong than, but on the topic of Tremere: British Isles, Dark Ages, you have to put Meerlinda in there. She is supposedly looking for the holy grail at that point in time, just think of all the Monty Python jokes you could pull.

    So we talking around 1160 than I assume.

    In general not many Tzimisce on the isles, their clan curse doesn't really lend itself all that well to traveling long distances especially in medieval times. But there are the Lhiannan, a druidic off-shot of (probably) Clan Gangrel, which could make for great antagonist or just a weird force that sometimes come into play. I personally would add them just because they are unique and kind of cool. If I had to pick four clans to focus on it probably would be:

    Ventrue - because Mithras and British Isles
    Torreador - because conflicts between British Ventrue and French (only "born" there now "living" on the isles) Torreador makes good background conflict
    Tremere - because young Clan that tries to find it place in the world, casually destroying the "status quo" by just existing
    Lhianna - because they are cool and there is potential for conflicts with Tremere "Ogham vs Blood Sorcery"

    I think with that four clans there could be a lot of conflicts in the background allowing for a lot of possible story treats.
    (Also there is a Dark Age book about the British Isles, I personally don't own it so can't tell you much about it, but it may worth a look. But I guess you already knew that, still wanted to but it out there just in case you somehow missed it)
     
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  18. shadowdice

    shadowdice Connoisseur.

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    In lore there is supposed to be a pack of Tzimisce doing weird shit with a local nature spirit because Tzimisce.

    With the Ventrue you have the the Romans who stuck around on the islands (most are dead), Normans who came along with William the conquerer and spread out. Then there is Mithras and Tiamat

    When it comes to Tzimisce, the way to get around the curse is as old as Dracula (lots of boxes of dirt)

    Disciplines wise, Ventrue would likely be the best for the type of character but an off brand Tzimisce who has the whole Old World Hospitality and actually being that friendly is kind of funny "Yes, this sword is that guy I was sent to capture but not kill, do you want a test swing?"

    But, there is always caitiff (with all the baggage that comes with)

    Toreador with the type I'm going with feels a bit too stereotypical

    I know about the British isles book
     
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  19. Lucidum

    Lucidum Verifiably Bored

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    Tbh, the off-brand Tzimisce sounds pretty hilarious, especially if they have Arsenal of Flesh and Bone and were to just give every shmuck in Britain an Agg Sword... but nobody ever takes them up on their offer. Maybe they were out swimming one day and some perv was watching so they threw a sword at them.
     
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  20. gereh

    gereh Know what you're doing yet?

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    I'm fully down with anything that gets us Tzimisce, just wanting to put out there that the whole "boxes of dirt" method wasn't as practical in the dark ages as it would be today, as shipping was a lot more difficult. Still possible but not as practical.

    Also the whole thing would be a non issue for the MC, if he was part of the clan.

    Don't have to be the MC clan, they could be an antagonistic force or something. I just thought they would make a good force that could combat the Ventrue on the political stage.

    Thought so (if you own it, is it any good?)
     
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  21. shadowdice

    shadowdice Connoisseur.

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    from what I remember it is good so I am debating whether to get a copy

    Getting my group into vampire was hard enough, dark ages is another matter and I already have a lot of books I’m probably never going to get to use
     
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  22. gereh

    gereh Know what you're doing yet?

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    Easy get them into Crusader Kings and from there into Prince of Darkness mod and before they know they are heads over head into "dark ages"
     
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  23. shadowdice

    shadowdice Connoisseur.

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    I'm pretty sure I never mentioned this before

    back when I was originally trying to figure out V5 I made a bunch of test characters to work out the system

    one of them was female Japanese Giovanni mobster whose parents had worked very hard to fit in with the Giovanni to the point of dressing up as stereotypical gangssters, making her only ever speak in Italian when at home, and eating pasta every day

    she hated every part of this and was thankful about becoming a vampire because it meant she had an excuse to not eat pasta anymore and set up her place of work in Chinatown despite being Japanese, specifically to avoid anything Italian outside of when dealing with the Giovanni.

    Just tiny five foot tall vampire that obfuscates due to sitting at a table in a chinese souvenir shop that she keeps a workshop underneath, making fake identities for fledgelings of every faction in the city, making cheap single use guns, and other not great but serviceable tools that she exchanges for money and favors

    Giovanni: You see, we have a deal with the camarilla of noninterference, so if you really need help you can stop by here for a bit. What exactly did you do? Oh, so, I'll just write down in this notebook, Life Boon

    all wrapped up in a perky goth exterior
     
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  24. Maragas

    Maragas I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Sounds like someone had too much spaghetti.
    Jokes aside, that sounds like it will backfire since it makes her look two faced.
     
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  25. shadowdice

    shadowdice Connoisseur.

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    No, completely open about what she does, but is a perky goth

    Neonates: Why are you soaking corpses in gasoline? We paid you to give us new identities!

    Giovanni: To burn and fake the deaths of your current identities, otherwise there is going to be a missing persons case and all of that. It is part of the Silver Package. I had to drill their teeth to match your current dentals.
     
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  26. shadowdice

    shadowdice Connoisseur.

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    on another note, I have some of the newer v5 books in case anyone wants to know about the contents (Trails of Ash and Bone/Forbidden Religions)
     
  27. Nervaqus987

    Nervaqus987 Experienced.

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    Are they as shit as the rest of V5?
     
  28. shadowdice

    shadowdice Connoisseur.

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    So so

    Trails of Ash and Bone has the problem V5 keeps having of wasting the space and money on random pieces of artwork throughout the document that don't really do anything instead of having ones for the NPCs. it basically has a bunch of different scenarios involving cults (including Bahari)

    The main problem I would point at that is that they are all in wildly different locations (Copenhagen, Atlantic city) and I'm just kind of looking at that thinking that the Storyteller is going to need to do legwork to set it somewhere else if the players didn't start there or travel is a large part of the game.

    The Atlantic City one is focused on cult politics instead of what players are probably going to do (Casino Heist) which the book acknowledges before just saying that it should be difficult.

    Britain's is obvious Salubri scenario where the problem of How Much Info Do Elders Know makes it confusing how the entire thing wis happening.

    Forbidden Religions adds some ready made lore for different clan ancestors you can use and groups. \

    Militant Ventrue that keep shortspears on them and are very big fans of 300 that are on an Indiana jones style adventure across the world trying to find their ancestor's torpid body and protecting it while hunting down other cults and diiablerists. Nosferatu that decide that they must BECOME the Nictuku and hunt down their own members. A group of Assamites that didn't fall into the new Banu Haqim umbrella and acknowledging that the entire clan is a blood cult dedicated to older vampires.

    Problem with the Assamite one is that v5 is rolling back and going "Oh, Ur Shulgi is gone now, he walked off on a pilgrimage" when the entire basis of the Assamites joining the Camarilla was based on them being batshit terrified of him. but it gets you the canon of an Assamite that believes it is their holy duty to find thin bloods and aid them in diablerizing the unworthy to become true vampires.

    Ventrue: Dissing demons, hurting heretics, inspecting inquisitors and killing the whole lot of them is my job.

    Assamite: Hey, hey you Duskborn, listen to me now, look at me in the eye. You are a son of Haqim now.

    overall mixed bag, but Forbidden Religions is at last better than most of the v5 books
     
  29. gereh

    gereh Know what you're doing yet?

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    Also it introduced a group of Tremere that believe that some councilors have survived the fall of the Vienna Chantry, which is kind of strange, cause if the whole council wasn't taken out before they could react, there is no way the Inquisition should even be able to have a chance. But I guess that just them having to work with the existing V5 lore and there isn't really a chance of making sense of the whole Vienna situation.

    But yeah, Forbidden Religion is in the top three of the V5 books for me (not really a high hurdle to cross), together with Companions and Chicago by Night.
     
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  30. shadowdice

    shadowdice Connoisseur.

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    As a general question?

    Shouldn’t this thread be in creative writing instead of off topic?

    Or do we just not generally talk about making stories enough? (WOD of any form is fairly rare in the fics and quests sections)
     
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