General World of Darkness Discussion Thread QQ Edition

[magic9mushroom]

There's a reason why 2e buffs them, right? So it's not just you,

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Well, I haven't read 2e, so I didn't know that.

(I know there's stunting, and XP for stunting. That was all I needed to hear to know I would never be playing it, because my sense of "cool" is different to most people's and as such XP for stunting = I will eventually strangle the GM.)

 

[Vague Wanderer]

(I know there's stunting, and XP for stunting. That was all I needed to hear to know I would never be playing it, because my sense of "cool" is different to most people's and as such XP for stunting = I will eventually strangle the GM.)

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That's not really how XP works in Forsaken 2e. These are the criteria for getting beats/XP

Take a Beat when your character hits one of these criteria.
• If your character fulfills an Aspiration, take a Beat.
Replace the Aspiration at the end of the session.
• When you resolve a Condition, per the description of
the Condition, take a Beat.
• Persistent Conditions provide Beats for actions other
than resolution.
• Once per scene, when you fail a roll, you may opt to
make it a dramatic failure and take a Beat.
• If your character takes lethal damage in one of her
rightmost Health boxes, take a Beat.
• At the end of each session, take a Beat.

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A beat is basically 1/5th of an XP. The only thing that might be sort of akin to stunting there is conditions, which sometimes are pretty clearly designed to bribe players into doing dumb stuff, i.e. if your character is "Spooked" they resolve the condition and gain a beat if they wander off to investigate that noise in a haunted house. Some people might not like that sort of thing, and I could imagine it could cause drama at some game tables, but it's not quite the same thing as stunting.

 

[magic9mushroom]

That's not really how XP works in Forsaken 2e. These are the criteria for getting beats/XP



A beat is basically 1/5th of an XP. The only thing that might be sort of akin to stunting there is conditions, which sometimes are pretty clearly designed to bribe players into doing dumb stuff, i.e. if your character is "Spooked" they resolve the condition and gain a beat if they wander off to investigate that noise in a haunted house. Some people might not like that sort of thing, and I could imagine it could cause drama at some game tables, but it's not quite the same thing as stunting.

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Hrm.

Okay, so I suspect what happened here is that somebody on GiantITP saw this:

The Storyteller can choose to award a Beat for any
exceptional example of roleplaying, tactics or character
development. If this involves more than one character,
all of them should receive the Beat.

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...read "coolness" into it when it wasn't actually there, and then mentioned it in the nWoD thread there. Since I'd already explicitly seen White Wolf pull this shit with Scion (three-die stunt = 1 XP), I didn't bother checking.

I still have issues with a great many parts of the revision (the linearised XP, the tower-of-infinite-dots Specialty problem, and the various points where they explicitly came out and said "having this in our game encourages people to think in problematic ways, so we nuked it from orbit"), but it's no longer in my pile of "hahaha, no, this pokes me in the berserk button and I don't want to get arrested for assault" the way Scion is.

 

[LeftWaiting]

Is it just me, or is 1e Werewolf: the Forsaken a bit underpowered compared to the other splats in the lategame?

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For a long time the generally accepted opinion was that Forsaken were the weakest main splat in NWoD, yes.

 

[Rakdos92]

Got into Fallen London again, and seeing this thread pop up made wonder; how far would one OWoD vampire get in the setting, assuming they are replacing the player character? Let's assume they are either a Neonate (about a decade old*), a Ancilae (somewhere between 100 and 500 years old*), or an Eldar (500 to 1000 years old*).

I imagine they won't stand out too much considering how strange the city is.

*counting from the night they were turned into a vampire

 

[shadowdice]

I remember there being a merit which made it so blood bonds and the joke about a tremere that has that merit but also the full blood bond to the clan but can't find the book that it came from

Got into Fallen London again, and seeing this thread pop up made wonder; how far would one OWoD vampire get in the setting, assuming they are replacing the player character? Let's assume they are either a Neonate (about a decade old*), a Ancilae (somewhere between 100 and 500 years old*), or an Eldar (500 to 1000 years old*).

I imagine they won't stand out too much considering how strange the city is.

*counting from the night they were turned into a vampire

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that sort of depends on what goals the vampire goes for as some of the endings are less...lethal.

A tzimisce would be right at home and plying their trade there. Pretty much anyone with presence can potentially get a power base fairly quickly but could be called out for using magic.

 

[Gereh]

Got into Fallen London again, and seeing this thread pop up made wonder; how far would one OWoD vampire get in the setting, assuming they are replacing the player character? Let's assume they are either a Neonate (about a decade old*), a Ancilae (somewhere between 100 and 500 years old*), or an Eldar (500 to 1000 years old*).

I imagine they won't stand out too much considering how strange the city is.

*counting from the night they were turned into a vampire

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My knowledge of Fallen London is quite limited I only played sunless seas but never the browser game, but a Lasombra or any character with access to Abyss Mysticism would probably be OP.

 

[heralding_bubble]

I remember there being a merit which made it so blood bonds and the joke about a tremere that has that merit but also the full blood bond to the clan but can't find the book that it came from

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So blood bonds do what?
I'll guess Sympathetic Bond, which is revised Clanbook Malkavian p. 66

 

[shadowdice]

So blood bonds do what?
I'll guess Sympathetic Bond, which is revised Clanbook Malkavian p. 66

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that is the one. A fair amount of the traits in those books feel less like they should be clan specific

Looking at combinations I am looking at Nosferatu combat builds. Long Fingers+Huge Size (extra health level, possible bonus to grapple or at least not being taken down depending on the GM) along with stuff like Hard as Nails or Tough Hide (one gives lowered difficulty for soak, another gives an extra dice) make for just comically strong Nosferatu.

I'd suspect Berserk's -3 difficulty for combat rolls is for attacks not soak, though you get to ignore wound penalties.

 

[heralding_bubble]

Burgerkrieg released another WoD video, this time on vampire history, contains 5e lore.

00:00 Caine
13:47 First City
29:11 Deluge
44:41 Second City
59:57 Harm's Place
1:00:54 Carthage, Rome, Constantinople
1:18:04 Usurpers
1:35:01 Anarch Revolt
2:05:37 New Shores
02:17:27 1999
2:30:31 Gehenna
2:39:18 Inquisition 2
3:09:07 Fukuyama Time

Playlist of all his WoD lore videos, also contain 5e lore.

His other WoD related videos (homebrew vampire bloodlines and x is actually in WoD)

Spoiler

 

[heralding_bubble]

also, some games clearly taking place in oWoD

 

[Skitzyfrenic]

There's an elder Gangrel who is fucking seething right now.

 

[LeftWaiting]

There's an elder Gangrel who is fucking seething right now.

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I mean, the only thing odd about it being an Ajaba plot is the sheer range and control exhibited.
But if they had the resources, especially the endless hordes of animals to drown a problem in, this is exactly the bullshit they would get up to.

 

[shadowdice]

There's an elder Gangrel who is fucking seething right now.

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Because their plot was torn apart or because someone else is having fun

Having reread the old Chicago by Night I am there with an awkward feeling as about the kind of dialogue Kevin Jackson would have in the 90s

Also Sheriff

In might do a react read of it and some of the silly stuff/recognition of how it became a template for later lore

And I hate the Menele-Helena plot for being Trojan revisionism

Fucking Paris as an edgy emo superhuman bodyguard with supernatural skill in swordsmanship when he was such a shitheel even his brother complained about him

I really do need to do an Urban Vampire's retelling of Noddist lore

"And then Daddy Cain looked at his grandkids restraining his urge to slap them down and gave them all rules they would ignore such as Don't needlessly abuse the brother's kids, they can set your haven on fire in your sleep. Don't abuse your ghouls, for the same fucking reason and you gave them your blood. Don't embrace or blood bond for love. It ends terribly and I should know because I tried it. Don't think it'll work out better for you."

 

[shadowdice]

my group decided to do short vampire game in the Anarch states which had me look at their builds (South American Smuggler and Ex Pentex HR manager turned vampire PMC CEO) and told them they might as well just be The Cartel because they invested most of their freebie and drawback points in backgrounds related to crime

They quickly decided to just plain be the Escobar Cartel with the smuggler being his nephew who helped pack the plane that got Pablo arrested but was WAY too young to be prosecuted at the time

The evil HR manager is a Ventrue whose weakness is the need to feed on recovering drug addicts

They sell drugs and fund rehab so she always has people to feed from. Because there are only two I have a Maeghar NPC focused on knowledges to fill out the niche. And he uses necromancy to give people depression and nightmares that make them susceptible to the drug offers

Ventrue: "yeah I don't think we are even pretending to be good."

Additionally, I had been looking at odd disciplines for Caitiff and got interested in Bardo and how it's focus on Denial is suppossed to be somehow oppossed to Golconda which reminded me of how what that is changes radically with each edition

What are people here's opinions on Golconda? I personally disliked the eastern mysticism angle and Saulot being Totally good not evil especially since there was a lot of overlap between him and Cappadocius who turned out to be crazy as fuck

 

[gale]

Additionally, I had been looking at odd disciplines for Caitiff and got interested in Bardo and how it's focus on Denial is suppossed to be somehow oppossed to Golconda which reminded me of how what that is changes radically with each edition

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Bardo gets really funny as it allows you to eat health boxes and that means animals/bigger creatures are well worth to keep around as pets to eat from.

 

[vighzs]

What are people here's opinions on Golconda? I personally disliked the eastern mysticism angle and Saulot being Totally good not evil especially since there was a lot of overlap between him and Cappadocius who turned out to be crazy as fuck

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From what I've gathered from the mish-mash of books I've read (I'd like to thank everyone here who recommended me things by the way) it feels like Golconda should not be tied to mysticism as a must, but self reflection tied to a moral framework that can origanate from religion should there be a need.

You acknowledge your Beasts, you acknowledge the inhuman aspects of your current existence and you strive to be more than the "A Beast I am, lest a Beast I become." riddle. Religions and certain avenues of mysticism just simply streamline/ease that process as a lot of them possess a "strive to be a better person" angle in some shape or form.

 

[Skitzyfrenic]

I personally like to look at Golcanda as Vampiric Enlightenment. But I don't like to make it so 'Really Good Person' is the only path.

It's about mastery of self. About acknowledgement and the manner in which you master the beast.

And the paths and roads are great. They create a moral framework, a doctrine, in which you shape yourself, master yourself, acknowledge the beast, master the beast in whatever manner is apropos, and reach enlightenment.

Mechanically, you still gotta be like 9-10 on the road/path, and actively seeking enlightenment. And staying in the 9-10 range for any road/path is pretty hard, except for maybe the 'let the beast lead' style roads where you're little more than an animal. But then you're enlightenment is that of the beast, submitting to it, and most people/kindred find that unpalatable.

This technically means that you can be a massively evil vampire, and still reach Golcanda with all of it's benefits.

It honestly gives reasons for the roads and paths that aren't humanity if you can reach a dark enlightenment. It also makes the Sabbat... more, and can narrow down their scope so they're less problematic (by being nine different things at once).

That's how I like to think about Golcanda.

 

[Cimbri]

It feels a bit like Golconda can be played many ways but I do like to play it as "staying human" which doesn't mean perfect sainthood but does mean committing to a road forward.
If that means using the Sermon on the Mount or some Aurelian philosophy matters little as long as it is something that the GM can refer to when checking progress and obstacles.
Makes sense? Or did we homebrew too far?

 

[heralding_bubble]

this was probably posted earlier here, idk

 

[shadowdice]

I ran my l.a campaign

The Gangrel drug dealer botched his roll against a thin blood alchemist doctor they were kidnapping who proceeded to roll almost all tens on the damage from stabbing him in the eye

He is now one step bloodbonded but so is the thinblood who they kidnapped to help them find Thin Blood ticktokkers, influencers, and redditors that have been breaching the masquerade

Players: we don't like Anarchs with how disorganized they are

Me: The Anarchs have learned that thin bloods in the area are doing weird masquerade breaches on social media and using weird blood magic so they have made a game where you get points for capturing nuisance streamers to see who gets the job and fun of being the secret police against TikTok and Reddit

Players: Yes

The one reason I included v5 lore

They have now forcibly adopted the thin blood to make sunscreen

 

[Skitzyfrenic]

What thinbloods are for. Eat food merit in a bottle, and sunscreen.

 

[Ragura]

For extra hilarity one of the nuisance streamers is a Nuwisha

 

[magic9mushroom]

Was there ever a clarification in VtR 1e as to whether Wassailing vampires who start drinking from another vampire are forced to commit diablerie? This seems like an extremely-important detail, but I didn't see any mention of it in the corebook or The Blood. There's a mention that diablerie's penalised by being in frenzy, but not a specific mention of whether frenzying vampires will do it.

Also, is it just me, or are The Blood's rules for torpor checks from high Blood Potency really lame and contradictory to other books? I mean, not only does it lie when "quoting" the main splatbook, but the rules given are a full block on characters with Humanity 3 or less getting to Blood Potency 7+ and there are many such printed characters.

 

[Gedou_Meta]

That's not my exact area of expertise and I don't have some stuff due to hard drive failures, but I'd say that the vampire probably wouldn't be forced to unless they were already a diablerie addict or could regularly complete the process very quickly.

 

[shadowdice]

My players learned about a how demon cult ran summer camp was was burned to the ground in the 2000s after their mass child murder ritual was disrupted by a detective and learned that thin bloods alchemists funded by an Indian megacorp were running an apiary and bee research site on the ground it used to be on

They stole an ancient Chinese ceremonial sword to bribe the detective turned toreador ghoul that had previously burned down the cult site during which a demon put its massive dog paws upon our Gangrel player who received visions of the Wild West while hearing screams and explosions behind him

Players: we are not scouting the place out but will have three cartel squads go in with the ghoul ahead of us *two of the three squads botch*

Me: You guys wake up and the guy who had been driving you is in his seat minus his head which looks like it was bitten off. In the distance you see a giant albino dog that is eight feet tall while standing on four legs. Dynamite explosions are heard in the distance even though there are no explosive plumes

They listened to their radios, heard that a testing facility full of ghouls and blood magic enhanced vulture bees that infest people and corpses are in there, and decided to run towards that instead of a demon that quotes and might be Judge Holden from blood meridian

They fought their way to a helicopter and watched the site burn to the ground with the players deciding that investing in the Demon Lore specialty skill was a good idea

Vampire Cartel versus Demon Cults

 

[Maragas]

also, some games clearly taking place in oWoD

Click to shrink...

There's an elder Gangrel who is fucking seething right now.

Click to shrink...

I mean, the only thing odd about it being an Ajaba plot is the sheer range and control exhibited.
But if they had the resources, especially the endless hordes of animals to drown a problem in, this is exactly the bullshit they would get up to.

Click to shrink...

Considering the state of Africa in WoD? You can make a full chronicle on it.
The Black Lion is the Black Tooth, the Legendary Simba who is right now in control of most of Changing Breeds of Africa, who genocided Werehyenas and is about to take complete control.
He and his pride aka army, The Endless Storm is perfect for this.

Spoiler: Black Tooth and the Endless Storm

On the other hand, Kaftar is a past Werehyena legend who came back from the Legendary Realm after seeing what happened to his people, nearly extinct. He doesn't have his original body but possesses animals and humans to do his actions, granting him a small portion of his might. He plans to gather power to face Black Tooth and his Endless Storm.

Spoiler: Werehyenas status

Then we have our hunters Cole and Jacob. Who are they? No one knows. But they somehow, against all odds and logic, hunt both sides. The past and probably the last legendary Werehyena is banished, the Black Tooth killed and the Werelions decimated. And all other werecreatures hurt badly. Even the Wyrm is confused. Everyone will remember what happened those days.

Black Tooth even looks like Black Lion Emperor.

Spoiler

Edit: Oh right, imgur doesn't work anymore. Switching to imagechest.
...I hope my threadmarked posts about WoD is still showing.

 

[vighzs]

Alfabusa just posted an in universe exploration of werewolves as part of his Hunter: The Parenting the series " Hunter: The Parenting - Chapter 5.2 | WEREWOLF LORE: Big-D & Kitten's Unveiling of the Garou".

The end portion has an excellent summary of the Garou:

Big D about the Wyrm and Pentex:

"And that's the problem, damn it! Fighting this is genuienly noble! That is WHY I DO NOT FUCK WITH WEREWOLVES!
...
But then, they come along, KILL SOMEONE WHO ADVOCATES FOR THEM, AND STEAL MY SON!
- skip - relevant to the events of the story

Kitten:
But fuck if these Lycans aren't the biggest idiots on the face of the planet!

Big D
THAT IS ALL I HEAR!
For every Wolf who exclusively puts an end to entropy-worshipping oil barons chicken racing their oil tankers off the coast of Madagascar there is also that neopagan theocrat cleaning out a wage-slave warehouse in a town called Dingle, because they happend to work under a demon-infested management!

AND THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED TONIGHT

They fail to build their own coalitions, They fail to make distinctions, They FAIL to UNDERSTAND.

And trough this failure, proud wolves become thoughtless, rabid hounds!

 

[shadowdice]

the game I run has now resulted in my players helping the Anarch State make a Department of the Scourge to deal with both Thin Blood masquerade breaches (and finding their sires), their weird blood alchemy, and demon cultist hunting

Gangrel Drug Dealer: Is that icon of a guy in a German Air Force uniform? "Uh are you sure you want to wear that?"

Hans Joachim Marsielle: "I only wear the uniform to formal events where I have to introduce myself. I am Hans Joachim Marsielle, happy to be in the nation that birthed jazz."

Ventrue Cartel Member in and out of universe: "What"

Gangrel in and out of universe: I will explain the most ridiculous man in World War Two later "How are you alive"

HJM in my universe was turned into a vampire by a Shango Elder (Laibon Assamite branch) and has been a demon hunting vampire for the last 80 years that got called in by a boon when the Californian elders learned demons were active again

My Gangrel player talked to him a lot and learned that a bunch of WW1 and 2 pilots that got shot down on both sides are vampires now due to kindred stalking around the battlefields with ghouls to get interesting people in the daytime

So now my campaign is Anarchs hunting Baali and Baali adjacent thin blood death cults

 

[Skitzyfrenic]

My VtM Dark Ages players are convinced the Baali Broodmother they are hunting is a chick.

Like, no thought about it. Just 'Brood mother must mean woman.'

They are also convinced because the Broodmother is 12 gen that there must be fucking loads of Baali in Toledo. I have made notes.