I get to conquer the Federation (SW SI X ST)

They can't run. The Enterprise-E was nearly blown in two between the saucer and the engine section, if they try to go to warp, they'll get torn apart. Not that they can, what with the ship's primary EPS relays burnt out.

Yup.

 

Always nice to see the blinders removed to what communism really is and does.

As someone who recognizes Star Trek for the leftist high minded intellectual propaganda it is. It's deeply satisfying to read a story about the Federation being destroyed. Keep up the good work!

 

Now comes the interesting part.

Does what's left of the Federation lay down arms and accept their defeat?

Or, more excitingly, do they decide to create a new, better Federation and continue the struggle?

 

Assuming their neighbors are willing to trust them at all, and won't just invade even if they somehow manage to eject the Coruscanti.

 

Oh I wasn't expecting them to eject the Empire.

More along the lines of them creating some tiny little rump state in the boondocks of galactic space perhaps.

 

either there is something missing before ‘and’ or you need to remove it

I think emphasising ‘kept’ will carry the intent better, as is I was confused for a moment with the seeming two sentences that mean the same

Remove ‘would’

Remove the red part

 

You just really love to piss all over the idealistic and optimistic intent of Star Trek, don't you? Piss all over it, while fellating the fascist image of 'strength' that the Empire projects.

To further add insult to injury, you continue this absurd exaggeration of Section 31's actual reach and capability, making it out to be an all-controlling puppet-mastering conspiracy that is responsible for every bad thing to have ever happened, when in reality such a widely-spanning conspiracy would've never lasted even a month just as you have Riker explicitly state.

Why do you insist on making the Federation out to be the worst of Stalin's USSR and Mao's PRC combined, when there has been no evidence of any sort throughout the franchise? Meanwhile, you try to paint the Empire in as rosy a picture as possible, when they are explicitly intended to be the villains of their franchise?

Jesus Christ, as an Empire fanboy myself I cannot believe I have to explain this to you.

 

This is fanfiction man. If she wants to write the Empire as the good guys and the Federation as bad guys that's her prerogative. I'd ask you why you keep reading and posting when you get increasingly angry with each passing chapter, but then that's your prerogative as well.

 

So, they basically turn from an idealized version of the Soviet Union into an idealized version of North Korea?

 

That or, forgive me for bringing up the Disney shit, they flee and create something like the First Order was for the Empire.

The remnants of a toppled regime, maintaining the same ideals, iconography, and methodology, with revanchist goals.

 

They'd be very unpleasantly surprised if they think the Galactic Empire or whatever its successor state in this galaxy is will be as vulnerable like the Disney New Republic. Seriously, the latter is so...incompetent, it's not even funny. Disbanding 90% of the military, because democracy doesn't need protecting? A capital on rotation? Honestly, what the hell?

It's the kind of government that actually makes the Legends New Republic with Borsk Fey'lya in charge look competent and a paragon of good government. Hell, any of the post-Imperial warlords were more functional than the Disney New Republic. Legends Mon Mothma would almost certainly drink herself into a stupor trying to understand just what the hell was wrong with her counterpart, or the Senate. Anyone who tried to do that in Legends would have been laughed out of the Rotunda at best, or shipped off in a padded shuttle at worst.

 

Oh I didn't say the revanchism was possible, or that they'd pull it off.

But I think it'd be interesting if there was something of a Federation left. Idealists left to carry the torch, and to continue prodding and needling at the new Imperial Order.

Or, rather than them holding ground, perhaps a rebel alliance, but for this galaxy and made up of Federation loyalists.

Either way, it would be interesting if these Federation remnants become more ruthless and warlike in their fight against the new order.

 

I really want to see a pov from a regular feddie citizen regarding this revelation.

This too is gonna have major consequences i think.

Personally i believe that if Spock had known about it he woud have done everything in his power to expose the truth to everyone

This.This is Q in serious mode.

I completely agree with you. The way Jaenera has written the Federation is very much plausible in my opinion.

 

Thank you for showing what is behind the shiny face of communism. The death camps, the re-education centers, the propaganda, and the vanishing of opponents.
It’s a glorious future, as long as you obey.
Of course, it’s not like the Empire are the good guys here. They are a single step above them, but wow is it a huge gap.

 

Don't use 'This is fanfiction, man!' as an excuse: that does not absolve it of valid criticism. Especially when it reads of thinly-veiled fascist apologism.

Jaenera Targaryen has repeatedly handed the Federation the Idiot Ball while having the Empire roll Nat 20s every time, with virtually negligible damage done to them, all the while completely butchering the Federation's character to make a false moral equivocation to the Empire's own heinous misdeeds, which reeks of whataboutism.

She has drawn completely unfounded conclusions about the Federation that have no basis in fact whatsoever, while handwaving away the fact that her self-insert is deliberately and willingly following the leadership of a literal evil space wizard, and is gleefully burning down a militarily weaker polity at his behest, all to impose a totalitarian fascist regime; and she has the gall to claim that somehow the Federation is a totalitarian regime of its own. It's one thing to claim the Federation is flawed, it's another to claim it's no better than Stalinist Russia, especially when you're cosplaying as Space Nazi Germany.

Not to mention how she is also ignoring the fact that there are legitimate authoritarian and totalitarian regimes neighboring the Federation. Did she somehow completely miss the fact that the Romulans, Klingons, Cardassians, Breen, Tholians, Gorn, and about a dozen other empires border the UFP, and that they're a better point of comparison to the Empire than the Feds are? Or how about the fact that none of them would get along with the Empire, nor would they just sit by and watch the Feds get slaughtered when they would be next on the chopping block? None of them like the Feds, but considering the A/B Quadrant just got done with the Dominion War - as Jaenera so helpfully pinpointed the timeline here - they wouldn't tolerate such an obvious threat like the Empire, especially given its blatantly xenophobic and humano-centric nature. It's basically the Dominion all over again, but a thousand times worse.

And speaking of timelines here, that's another thing Jaenera is completely ignoring about the Star Trek setting: where're the fuck are all the space anomalies? You can't go a full week crossing Federation space without tripping over some sort of Negative Space Wedgie, god-like alien being, or temporal paradox; the Empire should be suffering brutal attrition rates from this factor alone. If anything, this should be the one thing the Federation has an advantage in: since when has anybody in the SW universe ever encountered a spatial anomaly more exotic than hyperspace eddies or Force-based shenanigans? Let alone have any response beyond 'just shoot it until it goes away'? I severely doubt the Empire has such countermeasures in mind.

Then there's all the bitching and moaning about 'COMMUNISM'! First off: the Federation isn't communist, it's post-scarcity; communism is effectively obsolete given the resources at the Federation's disposal. Secondly: you do realize that railing about the evils of communism rings exceedingly hollow when you're going about replacing it with the evils of fascism, right? And thirdly: might I remind you that holy shit is corporate capitalism in Star Wars absolutely awful. Nothing you've ever made up about the Federation's supposed 'crimes' can even hope to compare what the Corporate Sector alone has got up to, let alone any of the hundreds of mega-corporations that dominate the SW galaxy's economy! And yet your SI, Jaenera, has opened the door for those very same predatory vulture-capitalists to swoop in to exploit the devastated Federation's worlds. Yet somehow you're saying this is a good thing.


I could just go on and on here about the problems and unfortunate implications with this fic, but why would I need to after everything that's been already said here? Yet in all likelihood, absolutely none of it will be listened to or even be considered, because this fic already made up its mind: "Federation bad, Empire good!"

Still, one last thing before I end this post: consider this thought experiment, where every mention of 'the Empire' and 'the Federation' in this fic is replaced with 'Nazi Germany' and 'Poland' (or 'France') respectively. See the problem here? If your fic featuring the explicit Nazi analogue is favorably portrayed as the good guys, you're doing something wrong.

 

One more thing: That bit about transporters destroying and replicating people? Disproved by canon. In the DS9 episode "Playing God", they put a protouniverse through the transporter, TWICE, and it comes out unchanged both times. That's right, a protoUNIVERSE. There is simply no way in hell that the transporter is advanced enough to re-create an entire UNIVERSE, no matter how tiny, especially not twice.

 

Not to mention that one time that Barclay had to suck up his phobia about transporters and use one: not only was he conscious throughout the whole process, he actually managed to see something during it and later grabbed it, ending up rescuing one of the missing crew members of the derelict ship they were doing a recovery mission on.

None of this should've been possible if the transporter operated simply as 'copy-and-destroy'.

 

Why the fuck are you even here? All you do is bitch about Jaeneras interpretation of the Federation and give absolutely nothing of value. If you don't like the story so much just set it to 'ignore' and be done with it instead of clogging up peoples alerts with useless ranting no one cares about.

 

Two points. The actually say in various episodes and especially in the episode where they rescue scotty from the dyson sphere, that his pattern was degraded and he was lucky to survive the transporter. granted this was after a couple of decades but the point still stands, if you lose the data you are dead. then they can use the backup transportor inprint to bring a new copy.

Its also shown that yes the transporter can do weird shit. of the top of my head there was the regression in age. the advancment of age, the bloody cloning incident, the merging of species which happened twice in episodes. i mean in the entire enterprise tv show they refused to even use it except for cargo purely because they believe it was dodgy as all hell.

As for the federation being communist, it sort of is and its also heavily racists if you go of the tv shows. even simply by canon they have a mindset of self inprovement over wealth and contributing to the whole than the individual, this is a basis of the ideal communist. Give everything for the state not yourself kinda deal. they used alot of the same methods as the soviets did just better.

Literally in one episode they are trying to teach some people from the 20th centaury about the ideals and federation and the capitalist chap does say it seemed very communist. Troi even shows them a holodeck program that was for kids which comes of very brainwashy when you step back and think about it.

If you go of timeframe it all kinda went socialist post kirk era. and can be traced back to the election where the peace faction got a president. they stayed in power till ds9 era.

As for racist well the planets arent generally shown to socialise unless you are part of starfleet, and even then about 90% of the fleet are crewed by humans, even on the ships its rarely shown alien crew on the upper decks and certainly rare on the bridge, except the token crew like worf or troi.

When it comes to the economy its a very odd duck in startrek. Technically they are post scarity BUT they arent really. The interior economy is funded by power, and they use a currency called energy credits. These credits can be earned in numerous ways, one is a state stipend which is given to every citizen and you could live your entire life just on that but it only would cover the basics. The other was basically working. restaurants/cafes/artist/musicians and such they all allow people to make credits. The reasons you dont see that on the ships is because they have anitmatter reactors which provide ample power to run relipcators. and even then on large ships such as the galaxy, ambassadors and such they have something called a replimat, thats basically a large room with various sized replicators in acting like a market. usually for civilians and lower enlisted. Its the same on starbases.

For the out border economy they use latinum as it can be replicated and is rare as hell to mine. and yes trade does happen normally for raw materials mostly.

In fact the ferengi blame the federation for sinking numerous economies because they invented replicators after they got a bit fo tech which was the original fabricators.


No matter what you want to say and believe the federation did some pretty nasty and heinous things even if they were not meaning to. all the way back to archers time. Theyve allowed entire species to die when they could cure them, theyve stood by for extinction events. Theyve ignored entire wars that happened. and god forbide they literal sold of numerous worlds to the cardassians just for peace even though they were winning. Granted not on the level of the empire but still.

Whats surprising is that even though shes supposdly from a evil empire she hasnt actually done anything massivly evil yet. all shes done is rile up the population over something the federation and starfleet did. and even better shes using their own secrets against them its textbook spycraft and warcraft 1 or 1.

 

mostly because as much as people like Star Trek the federation makes no damn sense Picard for instance is a true paragon of humanity but through out the show how many “red shirts” die and it just gets waved away. They make a point of saying humanity has evolved beyond its old urges and become better for it. Yet when push comes to shove we see again and again humans in this setting are still just that human.

It’s very easy to believe all the actions that section 31 takes would be needed to keep such a society going because the federation as it’s shown is a nation that has no place for free thinking people just brainwashed drones… very smart drones but still drones.

all of that and really if the federation was exactly as it showed it self to be this would be a much less interesting story lol.

so is there any chance that old pappy will gift her a dragon egg?

 

Star Trek has been from the start a romantisized version of communism, with most of the problems waved away by trek-tech like replicators and evolved morality. Later shows did point out some problems hidden away like Bashir, or made to disappear by Section 31, but never in clear terms, especially in regard to internal problems like dissenters or organized interests groups.
Now, while Starfleet has proved itself mostly incompetent (red shirts and other dubious practices), S31 would have been trained better and thus it's implausible they would built such a prison for inconvenient people. Occam's Razor states that if you arrange a teleport accident to vanish someone, you also don't bother the expense to reconstitute the person, and then imprison them for decades for more expenses.
PS: Even if they did (for some ilogic reason), once the Sol System was about to fall, an anti-matter fail-safe would have erased the evidence. Yet another supply depot blown away...

 

While I agree with you and I don't think it counts as massively evil (at least when compared to say, Grievous) I feel like I need to point out the orbital bombardment of San Francisco for the sake of fairness.

 

1) the federation isnt weaker than the empire, the literally wiped out golan platfroms and a few star destroyers, they are flying pretty badass ships, it even says in the story that she had to cripple their communications to actually counter their tech edge and speeds. also they can field more ships as they need smaller crews but punch way above their level. Also they could have defence grides that are legitmatly terrifying but they didnt both, as was shown in discories future where they sheilded a whole planet.

2)shes very good at making deals like with the orions. Its what a officer with political power can do like she has, she isnt just an admiral she also has the power of a moff in the federations quadrant, just not at home. and more importanly shes just show that the feds locked up klingon dahar masters and romulan senators, they arent likely to want to help the feds after that reveal. More importanly no she hasnt forgotten the klingons or romulans, she being fighting them aswell, or did you miss the battle where the klingons attacked the crossing point? As for the others. the cardassians arent in any condition to help or hinder, the tholians wouldnt care either way and are probably still pissing about in alternate dimensions and times. the breen wont care aslong as she doesnt enter their space. and i think at this point the gorn are klingon client race i think.

And nope they arent worse than the dominion, at least the empire doesnt infilitrate your society with shapeshifters and then try and gank you while you are fighting battles. The empire is likely to staight up walk up and punch you in the face and the dare you do something about it. bare in mind the klingon are wariors they love a good scrap, the romulans likely are dueling the ISB and enjoying it.

Again the Federation looking from the outside is also pretty human centric along with xenophillic, all their major instituions are on earth, their fleets is crewed mostly by humans.

3) space anolmilies arent as common as you think or weird crap. space wedgies. or such. Bare in mind they arent going to find them simply because they arent looking for them, The empires there with a warfleet not a science fleet. The Federation doesnt have warships they have science ships that have weapons on them. when they see a intresting thing or anomaly they run right at it at the highest possible speed, thats why you see them all the time its their job to mess with them.

For example how big would an episode be if all it show was them getting from point a to b. every tv episode was an event not the norm. Voyager is a prime example, they skippy weeks and months of travel before episodes, usually enough time to repair what was damaged last time. Space travel is normally boring.
Again we dont know what science issues crop up in starwars simply because its not from the point of view of scientists, they are all usually rebels, soldiers, politicians or the navy. no of which are usually science trained. The only times science weirdness happens that we read about its usually by on of those mentioned doing it.

4) It is communist, thats the whole point, gene roddenberry literally said he wrote TNG to embody his ideal thoughts on socialism. its what he envision a post scarity soclist nation would be like. and again its only TNG and those that came after that its like that. In kirks time the federation wasnt a post scarity society, they did have corporations and money, it was slowly fazed out once the first fabricators became a thing usually used on starships for spare parts and the evolved into replicators. Nut even then it wasnt a true blue post scarity society, they still need power which was limited as they used fusion on planets not antimatter, and they did use foundries to produce feedstock for their replicators.

If they were a true scarity they wouldnt be building starships as they did, they would simply use replicators for everything as they would have power to do it. But t hand it to them they were heading there but they were still a type 1 on the kardashev scale, for true scarity you need to be type 2 or 3 which involces dyson sphers and capturing a stars power, its also when they achieve stellar lifting.

Its odd but the empire actually does have those abilities they have stellar lifters(the starforge(destroyed)) , they have stellar engines(in the corellia system and was used to build the current systemin the past), the also have world devasators which can strip worlds and stars for resources. they also regualry build stupid super weapons but still the galaxy gun, deathstars, super star destroyers, and such which the feds cant and wont. the empire would just be edging into tier 2 except they generally regress techwise in cycles of wars.

 

Yep but she didnt aim for civilians or order the city bombard, what she ordered to be hit was the academy and starfleet headquarters, technically what she did was hit a military target next to a civilian population. the problem is starwars weapons arent designed for pinpointing targets like that they are designed for space battles and thats something the mpire inherited from the republic past.

Also the action was a legitamitly valid military tactic, and its sad to say were do the same nowadays in our own modern day militarys,we just designed out weapons to be better at hitting what we want. the empire used a sledge hammer, whereas we would s a nail gun from miles away and get the same result or pounding that nail in.

 

It wasnt just bashir either, they literally locked up anyone with genetic augments no matter where they got them and they called it an asylum, thats what the nazis did with disabled or different people before they started just killing them, same as the soviets.
The joke is amusing that redshirts are more prone to die but it was once worked out that its the blue shirts that died most, its just the redshirts were generally used more simply decause they were security. aslong as everyone else got ot safety they died doing their duty.

When it comes to section 31 they were like all the intelligence agencies rolled into one. Their really was a whole conspiracy with them hidden in plane sight, The had uniforms/ commbadges/ ships of their own with even in one book having scracth built defiant serving with a full section 31 crew. they also had outposts and stations. The problem with the whole thing is technically they were a legitimate part of the federation and starfleet, and the charter that was used to found the federation includes mentions of them in it. and they even use that numerous times to cvonvince people what they do is for the good of the federation. In pretty much gaurenteed that a few admirals either knew or were section 31 and the president was likely in the know or someone from the federation council.

Also when the balls up its usually on a whole different level, look at control for instance, they allowed a sentient malevolant ai lose and were luckly they stopped it in time. and in theory section 31 was what adrmial marcus was supposed to be in the newer movies. and he built a huge dreadnaught near jupiter and held vulnerable augments hostage to get what he wanted.

Also in the books and shows usually when they were found out, they usually turned out to have 2 agents on most ships as a just in case. and they also didnt usually know who they both were. bare in mind they recruited the same as starfleet. In one book they even mention having a cloaked ship collected some of their agents when their operation was done.

 

You used 'the Empire' instead of 'Star Wars' here. The Empire isn't even a decade old, it's the republci that has been around for 25,000 years.

 

True. but dont foget the older republics and empires aswell

 

What older republics? There was only one Galactic Republic, even if it was restored a couple times. And the only other significant Empires were the Hutt Empire, Xims Empire (even if it didn't last long) and the Sith Empire and it's succesors. There were also the Rakatans but they are more the Ancient Precursors.

 

technically i think the republic before the empire was the 3rd, and then you had the new republic after and then the weird two empire/republic with a different name after that. For the sith there were 4 sith empires, then you had the eternal empire which did both republic and sith in.

Plus before the rakatan you had the 3 republics of the core and then the first republic based out of coruscant, thats when the original works were built.