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How would that help us? We are fighting against the Incubators and to a slightly lesser extent the Illuminati, simply informing the Illuminati (He would talk to our mother even if he wasn't himself) we are doing things we shouldn't is not a good idea.
The Incubators are the real enemy, the Illuminati is using methods we disagree with, we need a position of power before we do anything.
If you look at what the Illumanti plan, it is a whole lot worse then what the Incubators are doing.
The problem is that she's a 10 years old kid who you just told one thing, and then (in her perspective) went around to do the exact opposite.

This literally becomes one of those "Do as I say, not as I do" things for kids, and you know how effective THAT is.
No, because she has no way to know whether or not we tell our parents anything.
 
We're not an authority figure enforcing a rule against her, we're giving her a piece of advice she was already inclined to follow. Failing to take our own advice wouldn't give the same sense of unfairness because we didn't push it on her in the first place, even if telling our parents what we've been up to wasn't an obviously terrible idea even to a 10 year old. I think you should be much more concerned about what she'll think when she finds out we robbed a bank.

So, you're trying to say that it doesn't matter what we vote because it's not going to make a lasting impact due to the QM was going to have her do what she wanted anyways? And I am concerned about that - like, did we tell our parents we robbed a bank? Cause maybe if she finds out she'll tell our parents for us since we're so big on the "telling parents" thing that she thinks we just forgot or was too busy.

If you look at what the Illumanti plan, it is a whole lot worse then what the Incubators are doing.

No, not really. I don't find the Incubator's plan of turning Humans into batteries to prevent the universe cooling down until a Witch that's too strong appears and consumes the entire planet worse than ANYTHING the Illumanti plans, including and up to them creating a "savior" type being that they control behind the scenes and ruling them all.

No, because she has no way to know whether or not we tell our parents anything.

Well, I can tell I'm not going to convince you of this. But I reserve the right to say "I told you so" when she asks us what we've been doing and if OUR parents knows about it.
 
So, you're trying to say that it doesn't matter what we vote because it's not going to make a lasting impact due to the QM was going to have her do what she wanted anyways?
She already told her mother about Kyubey, which is her only real secret. We're just expressing our opinion of her actions.

And I am concerned about that - like, did we tell our parents we robbed a bank? Cause maybe if she finds out she'll tell our parents for us since we're so big on the "telling parents" thing that she thinks we just forgot or was too busy.
A single statement, no matter how strongly worded, doesn't suggest an overriding principle and Nagisa is smart enough to see why we wouldn't tell them that, especially if she learns whose responsible for her mothers death.
 
No, not really. I don't find the Incubator's plan of turning Humans into batteries to prevent the universe cooling down until a Witch that's too strong appears and consumes the entire planet worse than ANYTHING the Illumanti plans, including and up to them creating a "savior" type being that they control behind the scenes and ruling them all.
That isn't actually the Incubator's plan. They just planned to continue harvesting grief seeds from a very small proportion of the world's population. Madoka was just a happy accident. What you are describing is actually the Illumanti's (unknowing) plan. The Illumanti plan calls for over half of humanity to die, and they know this. Compare that to the number of magical girls...

Well, the Illumanti are worse simply by numbers, not even considering the horrible things they do.
Well, I can tell I'm not going to convince you of this. But I reserve the right to say "I told you so" when she asks us what we've been doing and if OUR parents knows about it.
We could just lie.
 
That isn't actually the Incubator's plan. They just planned to continue harvesting grief seeds from a very small proportion of the world's population. Madoka was just a happy accident. What you are describing is actually the Illumanti's (unknowing) plan. The Illumanti plan calls for over half of humanity to die, and they know this. Compare that to the number of magical girls...

Well, the Illumanti are worse simply by numbers, not even considering the horrible things they do.

We could just lie.
All of that seems like a bad idea.
 
The Illumanti plan calls for over half of humanity to die
Well, the Illumanti are worse simply by numbers, not even considering the horrible things they do.
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That isn't actually the Incubator's plan. They just planned to continue harvesting grief seeds from a very small proportion of the world's population. Madoka was just a happy accident. What you are describing is actually the Illumanti's (unknowing) plan. The Illumanti plan calls for over half of humanity to die, and they know this. Compare that to the number of magical girls...

Edit: Actually, it's inevitable that a witch stronger than magic girls could deal with would be born. If you look at it from a numeric point of view, MGs have a limited growth curve. They can't get much stronger once past a certain point because they then become Witches. On the opposite side, Witches can get stronger indefinitely with no limit other than how many people they kill - in canon, the Witch that ends most of Homura's loops is one such figure, where even with the full might of the canon default MG powers they could not defeat.

Well, the Illumanti are worse simply by numbers, not even considering the horrible things they do.

If (it was true) it is required for 1/2 of the entire human population to survive for the entire human race to survive, vs the entire human race becoming extinct, then they probably have the right idea.

If you want to blame them for that, then the only thing you can blame them for is making sure that they come out on top and on the surviving side.


We could. Every cell and fiber within me tells me that it's a bad idea to start any kind of long term relationship with lies and/or deceit. But we could.

A single statement, no matter how strongly worded, doesn't suggest an overriding principle and Nagisa is smart enough to see why we wouldn't tell them that, especially if she learns whose responsible for her mothers death.

I'm still trying to figure out the part where a 10 years old little girl is smart enough to separate emotions and logic.
 
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Edit: Actually, it's inevitable that a witch stronger than magic girls could deal with would be born. If you look at it from a numeric point of view, MGs have a limited growth curve. They can't get much stronger once past a certain point because they then become Witches. On the opposite side, Witches can get stronger indefinitely with no limit other than how many people they kill - in canon, the Witch that ends most of Homura's loops is one such figure, where even with the full might of the canon default MG powers they could not defeat.
It's never explained what witches get out of killing people and Walpurgisnacht is so powerful because it's a conglomeration of witches accumulated over decades or centuries.

I'm still trying to figure out the part where a 10 years old little girl is smart enough to separate emotions and logic.
Nagisa, like all people who don't have some kind of psychological abnormality, has an intuitive understanding of social rules and interactions. If we were forcing her to tell her mother something she didn't want to, she would be rightly upset at us for our hypocrisy. Since we are instead expressing approval for something she did by appealing to a general rule, she'll understand to implicit "except when you shouldn't" that always applies, both generally, and specifically in our case.

Not that she'll think explicitly in those terms, but it's an accurate description of the intuitions involved.
 
Somehow I doubt that a ten year old would be able to grasp something that a lot of adults don't seem to know.
If you preselect for people lacking those kinds of intuitions, you will meet a lot of them. Nagisa was not selected through such a process, and gives no indication of being limited in that way, so she's probably fine. An average ten year old is much more capable in this area then you're giving them credit for.
 
If you preselect for people lacking those kinds of intuitions, you will meet a lot of them. Nagisa was not selected through such a process, and gives no indication of being limited in that way, so she's probably fine. An average ten year old is much more capable in this area then you're giving them credit for.

Wow.

Ok, I just have nothing to say if that's what you believe. I'll just say that most recent childhood studies generally say that eleven is the turning point of cognitive activities, not ten.

That's not to say that there aren't exceptionally bright ten years old, but on average you're actually labeling the minority, not the majority.
 
Wow.

Ok, I just have nothing to say if that's what you believe. I'll just say that most recent childhood studies generally say that eleven is the turning point of cognitive activities, not ten.

That's not to say that there aren't exceptionally bright ten years old, but on average you're actually labeling the minority, not the majority.
Turning point for what, exactly? Theory of mind comes in by 6, which seems like the obvious thing.

Regardless, we're not forcing something on her she'd have a desire to rebel against and she doesn't have a generalised obsession with rules, she won't get upset at us for failing to take our own advice, so she'll listen to (and possibly demand) our explanation about why you shouldn't confess to serious crimes.
 
All of that seems like a bad idea.
It is.
If (it was true) it is required for 1/2 of the entire human population to survive for the entire human race to survive, vs the entire human race becoming extinct, then they probably have the right idea.
Actually, the Illumanti plan does cause the entire human race to become extinct, they just don't know it. That is why Kyuuby says earlier that they are going to kill all humans.

And they aren't doing it to save the human race. Their is nothing that says the human race will end if they don't do it. They are doing to kill the Incubators, inadvertently destroying the human race in the process.

Edit: Actually, it's inevitable that a witch stronger than magic girls could deal with would be born. If you look at it from a numeric point of view, MGs have a limited growth curve. They can't get much stronger once past a certain point because they then become Witches. On the opposite side, Witches can get stronger indefinitely with no limit other than how many people they kill - in canon, the Witch that ends most of Homura's loops is one such figure, where even with the full might of the canon default MG powers they could not defeat.
No, it is not. The only reason that Madoka could is because she got the potential from entire universes, and even then, it takes several of them before she can actually end the planet. Even the most powerful Witch, built up over years and the combination of many many other witches is only strong enough to destroy a city.
 
Actually, a correction:
Nagisa will be upset if she finds out what we've been doing. She'll be upset because we robbed a fucking bank. Failing to tell our parents about it is trivial compared to bank robbery by any measure, including how often people have told her it's wrong. What we say here will have basically no effect on how badly she'll react if she finds out what we've been doing, because we robbed a fucking bank.
 
It is.

Actually, the Illumanti plan does cause the entire human race to become extinct, they just don't know it. That is why Kyuuby says earlier that they are going to kill all humans.

And they aren't doing it to save the human race. Their is nothing that says the human race will end if they don't do it. They are doing to kill the Incubators, inadvertently destroying the human race in the process.

No, it is not. The only reason that Madoka could is because she got the potential from entire universes, and even then, it takes several of them before she can actually end the planet. Even the most powerful Witch, built up over years and the combination of many many other witches is only strong enough to destroy a city.

You're contradicting yourself here, but you don't even realize it.

A Witch, built up over years (and perhaps) with combination of other witches can destroy a city. It's literally a natural disaster that nobody can stop.

So another ten years down it gets stronger by getting more witches to combine with it. So now it destroys a region/province, instead of a city.

Another ten years down, it can destroy a small country.

It continues to snowball, because it is of a strength that nobody can stop.

So yes, the human race will become extinct simply because Witches will kill humans, and the fact that the Incubators continue to create MG(Witches) will cause the end of all human life. And thus killing the source of MG(Witches) will save the human race.

Actually, a correction:
Nagisa will be upset if she finds out what we've been doing. She'll be upset because we robbed a fucking bank. Failing to tell our parents about it is trivial compared to bank robbery by any measure, including how often people have told her it's wrong. What we say here will have basically no effect on how badly she'll react if she finds out what we've been doing, because we robbed a fucking bank.

So you're saying that because we did something SUPER bad, the LESS bad things don't matter.

Turning point for what, exactly? Theory of mind comes in by 6, which seems like the obvious thing.

Turning point of rational thought. Go read some books on parenting!
 
You're contradicting yourself here, but you don't even realize it.

A Witch, built up over years (and perhaps) with combination of other witches can destroy a city. It's literally a natural disaster that nobody can stop.

So another ten years down it gets stronger by getting more witches to combine with it. So now it destroys a region/province, instead of a city.

Another ten years down, it can destroy a small country.

It continues to snowball, because it is of a strength that nobody can stop.

So yes, the human race will become extinct simply because Witches will kill humans, and the fact that the Incubators continue to create MG(Witches) will cause the end of all human life. And thus killing the source of MG(Witches) will save the human race.
I doubt the Incubator's will allow it. If the Witch is never defeated, they don't get its grief seed and they are prevented from harvesting any more energy from the planet. I expect that after a certain point, the Incubator's will bring in MG's to stop it.

You seem to be assuming the Incubator's are malevolent (or maybe just stupid). They aren't, they are amoral. It is currently in their best interest to keep humanity alive, so they will. Like I said before, Madoka was an OCP.
 
I doubt the Incubator's will allow it. If the Witch is never defeated, they don't get its grief seed and they are prevented from harvesting any more energy from the planet. I expect that after a certain point, the Incubator's will bring in MG's to stop it.

You seem to be assuming the Incubator's are malevolent (or maybe just stupid). They aren't, they are amoral. It is currently in their best interest to keep humanity alive, so they will. Like I said before, Madoka was an OCP.
No. I'm assuming the Incubators are indifferent and unable to comprehend emotions.

It is easier to take a bunch of humans and start them over on another planet than to invest X amount of energy to destroy that Witch. It is more logical to harvest energy on another race (if they exist). I expect that they are willing to experiment with forces they don't understand and very dangerous out of scientific curiosity without caring or fearing the potential dangers.

But not actively malevolent, no.
 
No. I'm assuming the Incubators are indifferent and unable to comprehend emotions.

It is easier to take a bunch of humans and start them over on another planet than to invest X amount of energy to destroy that Witch. It is more logical to harvest energy on another race (if they exist). I expect that they are willing to experiment with forces they don't understand and very dangerous out of scientific curiosity without caring or fearing the potential dangers.

But not actively malevolent, no.
If there is another race to harvest, don't you think they would be doing so already?


And how is ordering a bunch of MG's to kill it more difficult then transporting a bunch of humans all the way to another, setting it up to provide optimal harvesting conditions, and ensuring both a stable and energy efficient breeding population? How is that easier? Remember, the Incubator's have been invested in this planet for thousands of years, do really think that they have never dealt with a powerful Witch? Why the beck would they do that rather then simply killing off the Witch before it is too much to handle? The show mentions Wal-Mart night occurring before, it must have been dealt with somehow then, or else the TV's would be reporting the mysterious destruction of cities across the world.
 
It's easier because there is no uncertainty.

You can tell a bunch of MG to fight a witch, but there is no certainly that they will defeat it. Whereas if you move them to a farm planet, the cycle can certainly be continued.
 
I support the 'Power to Madoka' Party. Remember first and foremost, we need to survive. (Also not be controlled)
 
It's easier because there is no uncertainty.

You can tell a bunch of MG to fight a witch, but there is no certainly that they will defeat it. Whereas if you move them to a farm planet, the cycle can certainly be continued.
Uncertainty has nothing to do with difficulty. What is more energy efficient? Sending the MGs. Why would they not do that first, and then only move people of they failed?

When have the Incubator's ever cared about uncertainty? They aren't control freaks, they just want emtional energy. Provide that, and the Incubator's don't care what you do. Yes, they could move humans and set up the whole cycle again, but why would they expend the time and energy to do so when they can salvage this cycle with far less energy expeniture?
 
Uncertainty has nothing to do with difficulty. What is more energy efficient? Sending the MGs. Why would they not do that first, and then only move people of they failed?

When have the Incubator's ever cared about uncertainty? They aren't control freaks, they just want emtional energy. Provide that, and the Incubator's don't care what you do. Yes, they could move humans and set up the whole cycle again, but why would they expend the time and energy to do so when they can salvage this cycle with far less energy expeniture?

This is mainly conjecture, but defeating a witch capable of destroying countries or devastating a planet is most likely more power consuming than moving people.

Moving people would require whatever technology they were using to move the QB bodies to Earth, which is built in already. They would only need to re-config the system and they'd have it.

Killing the Witches would require spending energy capable of destroying a Witch of that caliber - energy that would be wasted instead of being spent on preventing the heat death of the universe.

Sending MGs at it may not only cause the loss of potential energy that could have been produced by the MG -> Witch, but possibility strengthening it at the same time. That's not logical.
 
Let's gain power to survive in this world via something other than personally wishing and getting stuck in the magical heroin scene, okay?
 
Mitakihara Roll #001
[X] "Telling your parents the truth is always a good thing."

Let the guilt reach you Not!Madoka. Talk to your father....

[X] "Nobody else needed to know what you were up to. Knowing about Mr Kyubey is your right alone."

Well, if you picked the first one, clearly we should start telling our own parents what we've been up to... You know, tell mother we broken into her building and stole from her.

[X] "You have a chance to get power for yourself. Seize it."

[X] "Telling your parents the truth is always a good thing."

It's not actually true, but it was the right choice at that point and might keep her alive.

[X] "Nobody else needed to know what you were up to. Knowing about Mr Kyubey is your right alone."


That also means we might feel the need to tell our parents what we have done.

2 - Tell parents
2 - Your right alone
1 - Seize power

In other news, I'm going to start the first of the local area random event rolls. Since they are not side story rolls, expect deus and diabolus ex machinas. The lower the score, the less good the random event for that organisation, the higher it is, the more it benefits. Random event rolls are mostly irrelevant to the long-term plot, because most of these organisations have very weak ties to the greater picture, although be on the lookout. Some of them are harmless, while others are quite dangerous. There tends to be a correlation between their scope and danger levels.

  1. Mitakihara Communist Party - 6
  2. Islamic State of Mitakihara - 20
  3. Mitakihara Uyoku Dantai - 17
  4. Mitakihara Chamber of Commerce - 4
  5. Cult of Salvation - 3
  6. United Nations - 17
  7. Humanity Plus, Mitakihara - 13
  8. Shizuki Syndicate - 6
  9. Mitakihara Triads - 10
  10. Catholic Church in Mitakihara - 5
  11. Mitakihara Professionals' Union - 5
  12. Main Street Bosozoku - 16
  13. Slime and Scum Bosozoku - 15
  14. Shirome Otaku Club - 17
  15. League of Galactic Heroes - 7


Also, added Bundeswehr Marine officers, Mecklinger, Bittenfeld, Lutz, von Eisenach, Fahrenheit, Kempf, Kesler, Wahlen and Mueller.
The name "Kaname" is the key.
[dice]4380[/dice]
 
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This is mainly conjecture, but defeating a witch capable of destroying countries or devastating a planet is most likely more power consuming than moving people.

Moving people would require whatever technology they were using to move the QB bodies to Earth, which is built in already. They would only need to re-config the system and they'd have it.

Killing the Witches would require spending energy capable of destroying a Witch of that caliber - energy that would be wasted instead of being spent on preventing the heat death of the universe.

Sending MGs at it may not only cause the loss of potential energy that could have been produced by the MG -> Witch, but possibility strengthening it at the same time. That's not logical.

Which is why the Inubators would send MGs after it before it reachs that level. If that didn't happen, then every Wal-Mart witch would just grow and grow until the world ended. Plus, remember that it took the potential of multiple universes for Madoka to become a world ending witch. While this is also conjecture, it is may not be possible for a world ending Witch to exist naturally, even if it manged to kill everything in it's way.
 
Which is why the Inubators would send MGs after it before it reachs that level. If that didn't happen, then every Wal-Mart witch would just grow and grow until the world ended. Plus, remember that it took the potential of multiple universes for Madoka to become a world ending witch. While this is also conjecture, it is may not be possible for a world ending Witch to exist naturally, even if it manged to kill everything in it's way.

It's been canonically proven that the Incubators did NOT do that for Walpurgisnacht - a Witch which by mere presence is able to destroy an entire town. Why would you assume that the Incubators would do so for a Witch any stronger?
 

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